The Road to Cookiezi-Tier

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Vuelo Eluko

Shirokami- wrote:

I highly doubt you can even play AR9 well and AR 10 at all.
i can't play well in general but i can play both of those.
why's everyone assuming ar10 is unplayable for me? Did they all take years to learn it? Did you 2 spend years farming easy/normals in ppv1?
thanks for giving me another excuse to grab an extra post count
usa
good luck.
highly ignorant and unrealistic goal, but whatever.

just hope you'll eventually realize there is a difference between tackling a massive mountain all at once and tackling small steps to get you up the mountain.
also, just because you try, doesn't mean you'll succeed or that it'll get you anywhere.
same thing with "believing" that you'll succeed.
you are born with a certain maximum capacity and physical limit, just don't be upset if it's not what you "believed" it to be.

there is an insane amount of technicality in osu!, and you'll start to understand it as you get better at the game.
at that time, you'll realize why all the top ranking people who have been playing as much and hard as (if not harder than) cokezi couldn't beat him.

most people hit their try hard breaking point in 1-2 years, so good luck keeping this up beyond that.
NinjaNick
It's gonna be hard, good luck, your going to need it.
El Koko
you're all so annoying and demoralising let the dude play

I don't believe he's actually taking into account what most of you are saying anyway; he has the determination to do it and most important of all, he wants to have fun doing it.

Do your best boy, I believe it's going to be entertaining to see your progress. Not wishing you luck, this game isn't about luck.
mcdoomfrag

Woobowiz wrote:

I'm not quite sure how long it will take me to reach that level, in terms of just clearing those songs,I'd give it by the end of summer? (You can laugh if you want)

I'm gonna work on AR, then Streams, then I'll step into faster songs. After I get comfortable with AR 9 and OD 8/9, then I'll work on FCing Talent Shredder
I don't want to sound demoralizing, but you should probably work on setting some more realistic short term goals. After you get comfortable with AR 9, you will still be MILES away from FCing Talent Shredder, and don't get me started on big black/chipscape by the end of summer, you are severely underestimating the difficulty of these maps (Though you were probably gonna realize this on your own soon enough, I'll just attribute your statements to blissful ignorance of a new osu player).

If anything, take my words as a challenge, more than being demoralizing, but I just want to make sure you understand just HOW difficult maps like Talent Shredder are to FC. Getting comfortable with AR9 will only allow you to beat your average insane map. Maps like Talent Shredder are far from being your average insane map (spaced streaming and hard to read). Try FCing The Island or maybe Wahrheit first, they are probably better short term goals. Just my 2 cents.
Topic Starter
Woobowiz

mcdoomfrag wrote:

Woobowiz wrote:

I'm not quite sure how long it will take me to reach that level, in terms of just clearing those songs,I'd give it by the end of summer? (You can laugh if you want)

I'm gonna work on AR, then Streams, then I'll step into faster songs. After I get comfortable with AR 9 and OD 8/9, then I'll work on FCing Talent Shredder
I don't want to sound demoralizing, but you should probably work on setting some more realistic short term goals. After you get comfortable with AR 9, you will still be MILES away from FCing Talent Shredder, and don't get me started on big black/chipscape by the end of summer, you are severely underestimating the difficulty of these maps (Though you were probably gonna realize this on your own soon enough, I'll just attribute your statements to blissful ignorance of a new osu player).

If anything, take my words as a challenge, more than being demoralizing, but I just want to make sure you understand just HOW difficult maps like Talent Shredder are to FC. Getting comfortable with AR9 will only allow you to beat your average insane map. Maps like Talent Shredder are far from being your average insane map (spaced streaming and hard to read). Try FCing The Island or maybe Wahrheit first, they are probably better short term goals. Just my 2 cents.
I'll take a look at those 2 tomorrow, thanks for the suggestion!

EDIT: Also, Nonon is best La Kill
TheVileOne
Please leave personal conflict outside of this thread.
XGeneral2000
I think a lot of the, eh...lack of faith in this thread is not because people don't think you can do it, but because they think you won't.

This is gonna be kind of a long post. I rant a little. Ok, a lot.

This isn't the first time I've seen something like this over all of the various communities that I've been a part of. A newcomer appears and they make big claims - they'll be #1 in a year, they'll win the next big tournament, etc. They've got it all planned out - the schedule, the logistics, the equipment, everything. Maybe they've even got promise, talent even. They stir up a lot of hype and attention - both positive and negative, as you've seen here.

Six months later, they're gone. No one even remembers. Every time.

If you don't want to read the rest of this post and just want me to get to the point, skip the entire next section separated by bold dashed lines.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Let me tell you a story, to help explain.

I'm currently a graduate student at a fairly difficult engineering college, and I was an active member of a fraternity during my undergraduate career. There's a lot that goes on during the recruitment and pledge processes to decide who initiates into a full member and who doesn't, but we have one hard requirement - a minimum of a 2.7 GPA during the pledge semester. Without that, even if they're the greatest guy on the planet, we can't let them initiate.

The ones that don't make that 2.7 GPA are typically given another chance as a pledge, but they're required to show us how they plan to boost their grades first. They usually make elaborate schedules and plans - study hours, tutoring hours, weekly meetings with their professors, the works. It all sounds great on paper.

Over the four years as an active undergraduate member, I saw maybe 20 of these "holdover pledges" - people that wanted to stay, but didn't make the 2.7 GPA cutoff the first time. All of them made a plan like the one I mentioned above. All of them were really excited about it, pumped up. And so were we, because these were good people we wanted to initiate.

Of those 20, exactly 1 ever made it to full initiation. One. The rest were, as they say, "tears in rain".

Why?

Have you ever made New Year's resolutions?

Lots of people make them. The stereotypical one is to "lose weight", but there are others - find a job, get good grades, quit smoking. They might even plan it out. An exercise and diet plan, with monthly goals to "lose X pounds". Or maybe they have their resume to go, and they're going to try and "land X interviews" per month.

But they lose interest. They lose the drive as the moment fades. They start "forgetting" to go to the gym. They put off writing the job application until tomorrow. They decide they can miss just one homework assignment, because there's a lot more and one's not so important. They figure one cigarette every once in a while can't be so bad, because hey, they've been clean for 2 weeks already. And within a couple months, I'd say most people have quit altogether.

And then you can probably guess what they do next year, at New Year's.

So why?

In the end, it's really simple. Words are cheap. Inspiration fades. Following the plan is hard, and deviating is easy. And no one but you is there to keep you on track. No one cares but you. As soon as you stop caring, the whole thing is as good as dead.

And it's hard to keep a habit. Because in the end, that's what you're really trying to do - form a habit. It's not as simple as checking a box, or unlocking an achievement in a game. Your goals are long-term, and even once you've hit them, you can't just go back to what you were before. You need to maintain that, and that means you need to keep working for as long as your goal matters to you, even after you've reached it.

But quitting is that simple. As soon as you've skipped the first homework assignment or smoked the first cigarette, it's all over. You'll fall all the way back down to the bottom, a lot faster than you came up. Gravity's a tough mistress.

Granted, osu!'s not the same thing as dieting or kicking an addiction. But the idea that it's "long-term" is the same. You've got the motivation now. You've got drive, passion, a vision. You can see the peak of the mountain. But what about next week? Next month? Next year? What happens when you graduate and suddenly you have to start worrying about the future? Or maybe something happens in another hobby of yours (assuming you have more than osu! in life) and you suddenly want to devote more time to it?

Even if we keep it strictly in context of osu!, what about walls? What happens when you play for 3 months and you don't get better? What happens when you find you can't reproduce plays you did last year? I could totally play that one song with HR last week - and now I can't! What? I practiced all that time and I somehow got worse? It's easy to think of time in 6-month or 1-year chunks now, and figure you'll get better on average, but it's way different to experience that frustration in the middle, and start wondering if you're hitting a ceiling, or just doing something plain wrong.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I'm really rambling now, so I'm going to wrap this up by going back to what I said earlier. Words are cheap. Really cheap. Cookiezi never claimed he was going to be #1 in a year when he was still unknown, to my knowledge. Neither did rrtyui. Neither did anyone I can think of, either in this community or that of any other hobby. They did their work silently. They didn't say what they were going to do, and how there were going to do it. They didn't follow someone else's 12-step program to do it. They just did.

And look, I don't know who you are - I get that. I know nothing about you, or your life, or your character. Maybe you really do the stuff you say you'll do, even if it's 5 years out. Maybe your determination will carry you through to the end. Remember, even if only one out of those 20 people got to initiation, there was still one. Maybe you're that guy. I don't know. I'm just speaking from experience here. Statistics. And I don't want you to waste your time doing things that won't help. I don't want you to bitterly quit 6 months from now just because you weren't where you said you'd be. I know the joke around here is that osu! is an addiction and we all secretly wish we could quit, but I would rather you still be playing next year, and having just as much fun as you are now, no matter how good or bad you are.

So that's my advice to you. Can you beat Cookiezi? Of course you can. Cookiezi is just clicking circles. Everyone here is. There's no thermodynamic law of the universe preventing you from clicking circles. Don't sit at the drawing board all day theorizing. Don't tell us you can do it. Just go do it. Your rank will speak for itself.
Dexus

usa wrote:

most people hit their try hard breaking point in 1-2 years, so good luck keeping this up beyond that.
That's just you giving up, don't drag people down with you just because you got stagnant and don't know where or how to improve your own skills. There is no limited capacity to this game, it's just a point where you either break and give up or you keep trying harder.
Topic Starter
Woobowiz

XGeneral2000 wrote:

My advice to you is to do the same. Can you beat Cookiezi? Of course you can. Cookiezi is just clicking circles. Everyone here is. There's no thermodynamic law of the universe preventing you from clicking circles. Don't sit at the drawing board all day theorizing. Don't tell us you can do it. Just go do it. Your rank will speak for itself.
While I understand what you're getting at, I'm not exactly doing this for myself. Granted, it's great people are supportive and critical of my goal, but the point was to do exactly as you stated; a lot of people are capable of reaching Cookiezi in time. It's just that I don't like it when people look at #1 and say "Well, I guess there's no point in trying to reach the top anymore".

I'll share my own story before Osu! if you would care to read. You don't have to though.

I've always seen the scenario I described above and in your post many times I any game with a leader board. I'm always out there to prove others wrong that it's possible to be one of the best if you just believe in yourself and train hard.

I've proven this plenty, the biggest of them being Starcraft 2 and League of Legends. I even played another music game called "Feel the Beats" and it basically played like Osu!Mania. I hit Top 100 on the leaderboards on Feel the Beats (rank 97 before I quit) and I could have probably gone higher, but by then the message was received by those that were skeptical. For Starcraft 2, it was the same, I told others I'd hit Master league (this was before Grandmaster was a thing) and told them they could too, but the feedback was different. After hitting Master league, the skeptics stayed skeptical and would rather sit there arguing reasons I did what I did instead of going out and improving for themselves. I quit Starcraft 2 promptly after that because the community didn't believe hard enough. For League of Legends, I did not speak a word to others that they were capable of hitting Diamond League because their community was much like Starcraft 2's. I just wanted to have fun at that point, but occasionally I would spurt those ambitious words out to my friends and well....I was ridiculed just the same, so I proved them wrong and hit Diamond League (I will continue to climb the ladder in LoL eventually).

Consider this then a pinnacle of my efforts to battle against pessimism and low self-esteem, because I promise you, I won't leave (you probably heard that too) until I reach a level most people would appreciate. I don't know exactly how long it will take, but I don't want to be grouped with failures (sorry if that's offensive to anyone).

BUT this is only reaching out to those that want to be the best they can. I understand a lot of people play for fun and don't stomach the competitive aspects of games well, and that's completely understandable too.
Vuelo Eluko
Before you attempt to beat the odds, be sure you could survive the odds beating you.

there's been hundreds of would-be cookiezi threads and noone has actually accomplished it. so you shouldn't be surprised at the discouraging attitudes from people who have good reason for it. History repeats.

Are you different? Only time will tell. Overwhelming statistics say no.
GlennCampbell
y0l0
Topic Starter
Woobowiz

Bassist Vinyl wrote:

Before you attempt to beat the odds, be sure you could survive the odds beating you.

there's been hundreds of would-be cookiezi threads and noone has actually accomplished it. so you shouldn't be surprised at the discouraging attitudes from people who have good reason for it. History repeats.

Are you different? Only time will tell. Overwhelming statistics say no.
As of now, my PP and ranking doesn't really say much about where I am. So I wish to base it off achievements and my success. Eventually my PP will align, but as I see it, I seem to be improving faster than my Ranking can measure.
TheVileOne
The people near the top of the ranks would have already reach cookiezi's level if it were as simple to reach his level. You could get close with enough effort, but even you have not become the number 1 player of any game yet. It's just a matter of how much you work at it, and be aware that cookiezi has doubletime FC'd maps that literally noone else has doubletimed before. cookiezi is probably the only player to have passed deltamax.

Number 1 in this game is pretty much putting you above several million players, and the number of the people who can played near your level is a single digit number.

I'm not trying to discourage you. rrty needs company anyways. I just hope you realize just how much more skillful he was compared to any other player, even rrty our current leader.
Topic Starter
Woobowiz

TheVileOne wrote:

The people near the top of the ranks would have already reach cookiezi's level if it were as simple to reach his level. You could get close with enough effort, but even you have not become the number 1 player of any game yet. It's just a matter of how much you work at it, and be aware that cookiezi has doubletime FC'd maps that literally noone else has double timed before. cookiezi is probably the only player to have passed deltamax.
I seem to hear that players like rrtyui and WWW have little need to improve because they're already at the top? I'm sure they can pull of what Cookiezi has done, I'm certain of it, but there doesn't seem to be much of a reason to right?

Again, my goal is not Rank 1, that will take a good portion of time to get high scores on many songs. When you say "cookiezi is probably the only player to have passed deltamax" then I take that as another item to add to my quest. As I recall, cookiezi wasn't always Rank 1, but a lot of people consider him to be.
Vuelo Eluko

Woobowiz wrote:

I seem to hear that players like rrtyui and WWW have little need to improve because they're already at the top? I'm sure they can pull of what Cookiezi has done, I'm certain of it, but there doesn't seem to be much of a reason to right?

Again, my goal is not Rank 1, that will take a good portion of time to get high scores on many songs. When you say "cookiezi is probably the only player to have passed deltamax" then I take that as another item to add to my quest. As I recall, cookiezi wasn't always Rank 1, but a lot of people consider him to be.
they can't just will themselves to cookiezi's level it's not as simple as you think it's going to be. And anyway i wouldn't believe that bit about deltamax there's at least people in the tens/one hundred rank who can pass it [of course not nearly as convincingly as he did with 95% and single digit misses]. maybe im wrong though and you're thinking of a different map becuase im pretty sure he played more than one.

go for it
Saint_old
gl man im looking forward to see a non-asian guy as #1 again
Topic Starter
Woobowiz

Saint wrote:

gl man im looking forward to see a non-asian guy as #1 again
....I'm South Korean :?
Vuelo Eluko

Saint wrote:

gl man im looking forward to see a non-asian guy as #1 again
thats messed
Luna

Woobowiz wrote:

I seem to hear that players like rrtyui and WWW have little need to improve because they're already at the top? I'm sure they can pull of what Cookiezi has done, I'm certain of it, but there doesn't seem to be much of a reason to right?
Trust me, rrtyui tries his hardest to get the best scores he can. Look at his top played maps, thousands of retries on single maps just to push the limits of his skills. And now to put Cookiezi's skill into perspective (since you weren't around when he played) - those crazy scores rrtyui took hundreds or even thousands of plays to achieve were easily beaten by Cookiezi with just a few retries. Every time he played, he'd set ridiculous #1 scores. He HDHR FC'd Dragonforce Legend maps in literally 10 tries in his prime (I was there and spectated it live).
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