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whats the difference between basic and not basic patterns in mania

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Topic Starter
Slowpoke1135
awmrone said my patterns are BASIC and need imrpvoement how to make complicated patterns
xch00F
if I had to try and generally describe what makes a pattern "basic," it would be the patterns that come to mind first when you're listening to a song in the editor. put another way, the patterns that seem the most immediately "correct."
but the patterns that are available to you also depend on both your song choice and keycount. more complicated music will need more complicated patterns, sometimes music might need more than 4 columns, or 6 columns, etc.

do you have a specific chart of yours in mind that I can look at and maybe give examples
Topic Starter
Slowpoke1135

xch00F wrote:

if I had to try and generally describe what makes a pattern "basic," it would be the patterns that come to mind first when you're listening to a song in the editor. put another way, the patterns that seem the most immediately "correct."
but the patterns that are available to you also depend on both your song choice and keycount. more complicated music will need more complicated patterns, sometimes music might need more than 4 columns, or 6 columns, etc.

do you have a specific chart of yours in mind that I can look at and maybe give examples
beatmapsets/2310358#mania/4942565
xch00F
I forgot that I need a separate skin for 6k and I don't wanna hunt down a good one right now lol, so I quickly converted it over to etterna and played through the top difficulty a few times. I also looked at the other difficulties in an editor (arrowvortex). not sure if you know much about etterna scoring, I was able to full combo it pretty easily with over 98%
I think I see what awmrone is referring to, another way you could describe them might be "safe." aside from that, overall I'd refer to a good chunk of the patterns as inconsistent, which seems to be primarily due to lack of pitch relevancy. for example, the long notes for vocals (which is a pretty standard aka basic approach to charting vocals like these) don't seem like they land where they should. seeing the long notes in different places across different difficulties is odd too. as another example, there are sections where you chart the kick drums and the hi-hats+bass, but you use different patterns for parts of the song that sound the same. the ending stream section made basically no sense at first glance, I'd have to look at it more closely in the editor.

this is just a quick look through tho, I can give more specific examples once I find a good 6k skin to play with

what was your thought process when charting this, like what did you choose to emphasize and why, did you chart specific instruments first then layer more in, did you chart mostly from start to finish or did you jump around, etc
Topic Starter
Slowpoke1135
ok finally first time someone actually gave help

basically i had no idea what i was doing and kinda just didnt wanna do pitch relevancy and focused on hit note is fun. i chatrted from start to finish mostly and i just wanted each sound to have a note. didnt really want pitch relevancy as i didnt wanna have some parts where all the notes are together. reason some parts in same diff are different despite the same sounds is because i didnt wanna make it look like copy paste lmao

edit: also, do you have an idea on how to chart the chorus part thats just a long ass jump stream? idk how else lmao
xch00F
copy+paste really isn't a bad thing at all and whoever it was who convinced people that it always is needs to get their ass whooped lmao. it can be a problem if you use it excessively, but there are definitely ways to use it that simply make charting more efficient.
the vast majority of music like this can be thought of as having sections: intros, bridges, verses, chorus, etc. these sections will very often have elements that are not are only similar, but are literally the same. in this sense, copy+paste isn't being lazy, it's being consistent. if the vocals were charted with the same long notes in each difficulty, but then you layered in the other instruments differently to account for how hard patterns are across difficulties, it'd honestly be weird if anyone were to call that out as wrong lol.

pitch relevancy isn't a hard rule, if you're strict when you use it, it makes for awkward patterns. the more you layer, the looser you can be with it. you can think of it more generally like "the chart moves from left to right when the pitch increases and vice versa." for example, let's say you've only charted the vocals using single long notes, and they're super accurate in terms of pitch relevancy. then you go back and start layering in kicks, then hi-hats, then snares, etc. you find that if you keep the vocal patterns the same, the drums force some nasty bracket patterns. you can move some of the notes around to get rid of the nasty brackets, and it still feels like you've maintained pr.

my biggest recommendation would be to chart by jumping around between various sections and put more effort into keeping things consistent. not sure how to chart the ending stream section right now lol, I'll look at it again today
Topic Starter
Slowpoke1135
thanks! ill do what you said about layering and use top diff as reference

edit: i explained that poorly i mean im gonna rechart everything before someone mods my chart

edit 2: bruh this is not working the gameplay feels horrible to play
xch00F
it's situations like this that make me wonder how many people slow down music in the standard osu editor and then end up charting the granulation and not necessarily the real audio. the fact that osu transcodes down makes this even worse lol. slowing down music in arrowvortex and etterna also affects the pitch (which is how sound physically works when it's sped up or slowed down). I'm wondering if you charted this as unbroken streams due to the timestretched audio making it sound like that was accurate, because I wasn't able to hear/see what the streams were going to.

slapped this together really quick. for the first playthru I show how I charted the prominent synth, at the half way point I switch to a second difficulty where I add in a bit more of the synth and move patterns around to make room for layering more things in. the second playthru shows how I layered in kicks and hi-hats. it's not "good" per se lol, but it should roughly show how I might approach this section. there are definitely more hi-hats that could be layered in, but when osu lowered the bitrate for the audio, some of them got hit kinda hard by audio compression and it would have been too much effort to try and sus them out properly



this isn't necessarily the final patterning I would use, but I would approach charting the entire song with this method: focus on one layer at a time, change patterns subtly when layering further, trying to iron out anything that feels particularly awkward or dumb to play. hope this helps!
Topic Starter
Slowpoke1135
ill check that out tommorow asap after school and see if that works. gotta do it quickly as the day after tommorow someone gonna mod my beatmap and i only have top diff remade with (hopefully decent) pitch relevance

also holy shit i didnt know that about osu song whatever conpressing. maybe i should start charting in arrow vortex and just convert it into an osu mania, itd take time adjusting to pressing 123456 but ill learn it
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