OH SHIT WE BACK BOYSJarcrafted wrote:
I've been living in the Yume Nikki world
forum
where my homies at :C
posted
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57
Topic Starter
yoooooooo welcome baccJarcrafted wrote:
I've been living in the Yume Nikki world
Kaaruumii will save OT. Mass Deportation is Inevitable.
Hello.
Hi Katou. Been a while. o/
YoKatouMegumi wrote:
Hello.
Oh yeah i haven’t seen scyla for a while lol
idk
is that so uwu?Jarcrafted wrote:
I've been living in the Yume Nikki world
save europe aah replyYmir wrote:
Kaaruumii will save OT. Mass Deportation is Inevitable.
gone, banished from this realm
Ditto, those are some pretty cool people I've never interacted with.
people have lives outside of the forums
Shocking, I know!
Shocking, I know!
they have WHAT?ColdTooth wrote:
people have lives outside of the forums
Shocking, I know!
you'd think this was the case but idk man given how mad some people get about mods deleting their shitty posts they clearly care way too muchColdTooth wrote:
people have lives outside of the forums
Shocking, I know!
maybe jang getting silenced was actually a bad thing, he has to redirect that pervy energy elsewhere and now he's out on teh streets being weird to real kids
that is not how things workxch00F wrote:
you'd think this was the case but idk man given how mad some people get about mods deleting their shitty posts they clearly care way too muchColdTooth wrote:
people have lives outside of the forums
Shocking, I know!
maybe jang getting silenced was actually a bad thing, he has to redirect that pervy energy elsewhere and now he's out on teh streets being weird to real kids
shit you are this close to understanding remisametdze wrote:
save europe aah replyYmir wrote:
Kaaruumii will save OT. Mass Deportation is Inevitable.
so real! this guy is not a lunatic at all!xch00F wrote:
you'd think this was the case but idk man given how mad some people get about mods deleting their shitty posts they clearly care way too muchColdTooth wrote:
people have lives outside of the forums
Shocking, I know!
maybe jang getting silenced was actually a bad thing, he has to redirect that pervy energy elsewhere and now he's out on teh streets being weird to real kids
anyway, nah we dont care that much, we go on a rampage for a day or two making fun of the mods for being oversensitive and then go back to do our daily stuff
doesnt mean our opinions change, its just whatever we have other places to talk, fuck this subforum lol
Karu, those who came, will leave. Those who born, will die. Nothing is forever. One day, there will be nothing, nothing to like, love, laugh, cry, sad , angry, nothing. Thats why Charisse the time you have with others, no one is there for forever.
epic...Polyspora wrote:
we become oversensitive when mods get tired of our bullshit but they are the oversensitive ones, actually
thinking to myself for the most part, but this is still a response that came to mind when reading it:xch00F wrote:
epic...Polyspora wrote:
we become oversensitive when mods get tired of our bullshit but they are the oversensitive ones, actually
in fairness to both poly/mods, idrk how we even would weigh oversensitivity versus... idk, moderate sensitivity, as though the actions moderators make are necessarily beyond moderate sensitivity with pre-established rules being taken moderately seriously + the moderate sensitivity of poly really only appearing generally somewhere between annoyed and apathetic to the presumably uninteresting safeness that is at least partly artificial/exogenous to what off-topic culture would be without the oversight it has now
to what extent is otherwise healthy sensitivity "too much"? relative to what, according to who? in the face of conflicting perspectives about what is meant and what is done, what can we concretely describe about our actions beyond original intent and ultimate consequence?
what i mean is, while poly and other would be arguably hypocritical, i don't know if this is oversensitivity (though that doesnt appear to be the argument and you may just be pointing to how poly commonly posts about the gmt, suggesting that it reflects a sensitivity of its own kind)
i think both are just variable different kinds of... just sensitive and defensive of their respective priorities, with rules & relative palatable cleanliness/friendliness versus liberty & relative honest disinhibition/transparency (although maybe not necessarily mutually exclusive at all times with all people? unsure)
thank y'all for coming to my "college thesis type beat" moment
This is the best sentence I have heard from poly. +2000 Auraxch00F wrote:
epic...Polyspora wrote:
we become oversensitive when mods get tired of our bullshit but they are the oversensitive ones, actually
when will achromalia write a text for me 😭
editing my post to fit your narrative?xch00F wrote:
epic...Polyspora wrote:
we become oversensitive when mods get tired of our bullshit but they are the oversensitive ones, actually
never saw that one before
manishh 🐒Manishh wrote:
This is the best sentence I have heard from poly. +2000 Auraxch00F wrote:
epic...Polyspora wrote:
we become oversensitive when mods get tired of our bullshit but they are the oversensitive ones, actually
In space.
editing the quote in my post but surePolyspora wrote:
editing my post to fit your narrative?xch00F wrote:
epic...Polyspora wrote:
we become oversensitive when mods get tired of our bullshit but they are the oversensitive ones, actually
never saw that one before
this fucking guy lmaoxch00F wrote:
editing the quote in my post but surePolyspora wrote:
editing my post to fit your narrative?xch00F wrote:
epic...Polyspora wrote:
we become oversensitive when mods get tired of our bullshit but they are the oversensitive ones, actually
never saw that one before
you've rly never seen quote edits before??? how long have you been using message boardsPolyspora wrote:
this fucking guy lmaoxch00F wrote:
editing the quote in my post but surePolyspora wrote:
editing my post to fit your narrative?xch00F wrote:
epic...Polyspora wrote:
we become oversensitive when mods get tired of our bullshit but they are the oversensitive ones, actually
never saw that one before
in my mind, poly is probably not shocked at all by quote edits but rather taking amused bewilderment at being presumably misrepresented or otherwise represented negatively (and possibly also what would interpersonally be signified by that?)
basically, it's not unprecedented, it's just maybe tiring/weird/funny to see someone use it to make a point at poly's expense, i'm assuming
tbh though i personally kept finding myself with the impression poly did care deeply with the extent of maybe passive-aggressive gmt dissing (which often doesn't actually mean someone is deeply emotional about it but it does carry connotations of the classic highschool "if you didnt care you wouldnt be talking about it" retort), i always found it strange and funny
but it's not like i don't have quiet questions and skeptical impressions of mods myself sometimes, i just am not typically as affected or as comparably compelled to invest myself in giving feedback
i dont remember when or for what, but i know i did try to
basically, it's not unprecedented, it's just maybe tiring/weird/funny to see someone use it to make a point at poly's expense, i'm assuming
tbh though i personally kept finding myself with the impression poly did care deeply with the extent of maybe passive-aggressive gmt dissing (which often doesn't actually mean someone is deeply emotional about it but it does carry connotations of the classic highschool "if you didnt care you wouldnt be talking about it" retort), i always found it strange and funny
but it's not like i don't have quiet questions and skeptical impressions of mods myself sometimes, i just am not typically as affected or as comparably compelled to invest myself in giving feedback
i actually think i was going to at some point!! but then i either forgot or thought i was taking something too seriously or putting in too much effort for something trival, whatever it wasigorsprite wrote:
when will achromalia write a text for me 😭
i dont remember when or for what, but i know i did try to
sad that it never happenedAchromalia wrote:
i actually think i was going to at some point!! but then i either forgot or thought i was taking something too seriously or putting in too much effort for something trival, whatever it wasigorsprite wrote:
when will achromalia write a text for me 😭
i dont remember when or for what, but i know i did try to
The poly pill is spreading through OTPolyspora wrote:
heyyy achro is on the hate mods team letsgoooo
i'm just "asking questions" about your methods and your disconnection from the health of the culture, respective to the culture itself and not the general public...Polyspora wrote:
heyyy achro is on the hate mods team letsgoooo
half-joking, and i am maybe "questioning" at most, but otherwise actually comfortable with the mods myself, partly because i'm legitimately biased and averse to a lot of how people interact here but i try to adapt/integrate how i can
having that bias doesn't prevent me from still critiquing mods! but i don't particularly believe mods would discourage that anyway, so it's a very benign relationship for me. it's mostly relevant to me because it affects the other people that care and argue about it and that argumentation leads to its own cultural features that sabotage what i enjoy about the handful of parts of off-topic i'm interested in
i'm tempted to play up the "hate mods" experience though, i think that could be fun even if i would kind of just be pretending to be bothered by them...
additionally, this argument/rhetoric is incomplete and neglects to address the inevitable malleability of culture as determined by the people that exist in it, and because i and many others have had a part in changing the texture/flavor of off-topic, there ultimately is a bit of an enabling relationship between us (the friendly/inoffensive sort) and the mods who grew into the osu community along with us even if only tangentiallyAchromalia wrote:
i'm just "asking questions" about your methods and your disconnection from the health of the culture, respective to the culture itself and not the general public...
as i see it, it seems like the more self-preservative self-contained subcultures that feel encroached upon tend to find or form their own rigid bubbles in order to maintain a sense of common-tongue communication with people that understand them or behave like them
so as you've said, discord servers tend to be a viable alternative when forum culture changes
the only mod I have been somewhat annoyed by is blushing and I'm not sure how much of this annoyance is even his fault
cuteAchromalia wrote:
i'm just "asking questions" about your methods and your disconnection from the health of the culture, respective to the culture itself and not the general public...Polyspora wrote:
heyyy achro is on the hate mods team letsgoooo
half-joking, and i am maybe "questioning" at most, but otherwise actually comfortable with the mods myself, partly because i'm legitimately biased and averse to a lot of how people interact here but i try to adapt/integrate how i can
having that bias doesn't prevent me from still critiquing mods! but i don't particularly believe mods would discourage that anyway, so it's a very benign relationship for me. it's mostly relevant to me because it affects the other people that care and argue about it and that argumentation leads to its own cultural features that sabotage what i enjoy about the handful of parts of off-topic i'm interested in
i'm tempted to play up the "hate mods" experience though, i think that could be fun even if i would kind of just be pretending to be bothered by them...additionally, this argument/rhetoric is incomplete and neglects to address the inevitable malleability of culture as determined by the people that exist in it, and because i and many others have had a part in changing the texture/flavor of off-topic, there ultimately is a bit of an enabling relationship between us (the friendly/inoffensive sort) and the mods who grew into the osu community along with us even if only tangentiallyAchromalia wrote:
i'm just "asking questions" about your methods and your disconnection from the health of the culture, respective to the culture itself and not the general public...
I mean, they were president of OT once.Polyspora wrote:
cuteAchromalia wrote:
i'm just "asking questions" about your methods and your disconnection from the health of the culture, respective to the culture itself and not the general public...Polyspora wrote:
heyyy achro is on the hate mods team letsgoooo
half-joking, and i am maybe "questioning" at most, but otherwise actually comfortable with the mods myself, partly because i'm legitimately biased and averse to a lot of how people interact here but i try to adapt/integrate how i can
having that bias doesn't prevent me from still critiquing mods! but i don't particularly believe mods would discourage that anyway, so it's a very benign relationship for me. it's mostly relevant to me because it affects the other people that care and argue about it and that argumentation leads to its own cultural features that sabotage what i enjoy about the handful of parts of off-topic i'm interested in
i'm tempted to play up the "hate mods" experience though, i think that could be fun even if i would kind of just be pretending to be bothered by them...additionally, this argument/rhetoric is incomplete and neglects to address the inevitable malleability of culture as determined by the people that exist in it, and because i and many others have had a part in changing the texture/flavor of off-topic, there ultimately is a bit of an enabling relationship between us (the friendly/inoffensive sort) and the mods who grew into the osu community along with us even if only tangentiallyAchromalia wrote:
i'm just "asking questions" about your methods and your disconnection from the health of the culture, respective to the culture itself and not the general public...
And we only ever threatened to invade the other forums and crumble the world order a couple times
true...TeeArctic1 wrote:
I mean, they were president of OT once.Polyspora wrote:
cuteAchromalia wrote:
i'm just "asking questions" about your methods and your disconnection from the health of the culture, respective to the culture itself and not the general public...Polyspora wrote:
heyyy achro is on the hate mods team letsgoooohalf-joking, and i am maybe "questioning" at most, but
i am maybe "questioning" at most, but otherwise actually comfortable with the mods myself, partly because i'm legitimately biased and averse to a lot of how people interact here but i try to adapt/integrate how i can
having that bias doesn't prevent me from still critiquing mods! but i don't particularly believe mods would discourage that anyway, so it's a very benign relationship for me. it's mostly relevant to me because it affects the other people that care and argue about it and that argumentation leads to its own cultural features that sabotage what i enjoy about the handful of parts of off-topic i'm interested in
i'm tempted to play up the "hate mods" experience though, i think that could be fun even if i would kind of just be pretending to be bothered by them...additionally, this argument/rhetoric is incomplete and neglects to address the inevitable malleability of culture as determined by the people that exist in it, and because i and many others have had a part in changing the texture/flavor of off-topic, there ultimately is a bit of an enabling relationship between us (the friendly/inoffensive sort) and the mods who grew into the osu community along with us even if only tangentiallyAchromalia wrote:
i'm just "asking questions" about your methods and your disconnection from the health of the culture, respective to the culture itself and not the general public...
And we only ever threatened to invade the other forums and crumble the world order a couple times
additionally, we did let loose some nuclear missiles because of a certain ot!parliament member that one time...
as i remember it, we tended to be a zealous bunch in our excitement to construct new factions and institutions for our communities as we mediated
i adore that the mods would even hope to rein in the people of off-topic, but i also welcome it somewhat. we have had our time, we are not always well-suited for the present in our political careers, and so we pass on the office to another when the time is right to represent the changing ecosystem that off-topic is
some things remain in spirit, of course, and we still carry the memories of what came before us
...
anyway i miss that era a little bit ;-; there were some really sweet people visiting at the time
i can only hope that the off-topic mosaic of personalities will include enough of the people each community in-group is looking for so that there are people to share freely-willed engagement and representation with, so long as they desire and cultivate it
you guys talk about RP like its something I didnt experience lol
it was all we did 2 years ago
its exactly carrying the memory of what this place once was, to what it is now that hurts a little.
anyway cant even quote some of the government shit I did and started because the mods probably deleted half of my posts history by now :shrug:
it was all we did 2 years ago
its exactly carrying the memory of what this place once was, to what it is now that hurts a little.
anyway cant even quote some of the government shit I did and started because the mods probably deleted half of my posts history by now :shrug:
ngl i have no memory of two years ago,, you might've been there if i reflect hard enough but i have a pretty blurry concept of it, i know that roleplay was going on at the time but it didn't really feel the samePolyspora wrote:
you guys talk about RP like its something I didnt experience lol
it was all we did 2 years ago
its exactly carrying the memory of what this place once was, to what it is now that hurts a little.
anyway cant even quote some of the government shit I did and started because the mods probably deleted half of my posts history by now :shrug:
what i wonder about is more of whether you were there five years ago, because i would've hoped to remember you somewhere in all that, but there is an entire blank space there beyond specific memories and regrets with very little room for people that i didn't already interact with at the time... most relevant for me was the 2018-2020 timeframe, anything after then is hard to hold onto
but i'm sure you must've been at least loosely aware of all that's happened in the lore, i think i just have particular localized feelings and experiences/impressions of it, so i would've thought it would still be accurate to speak as though you weren't quite there in the same contexts at the same time
what do you mean when you refer to the memory of off-topic? how has it grown to hurt over time? i don't really know what it was like in 2022 since i was no longer really involved
edit: actually... i've been noticing those threads of people missing original friend groups, specifically the jarcrafted-sycla (and...? i forgot the other two) threads. i thiiink they were there at the time, and i imagine that had a significant effect on off-topic... there was probably also keremaru? i don't know if i'm misremembering the timing of this but i think the pink-text friend had been roleplaying with some kind of airship and had a war with abraker or something. i wonder if those were tangentially related to what you've seen
I think looking at the OT!Chronicles is one of my favourite pastimes when I return after a long visit. The batshit insane roleplaying for shits and giggles is fun and creates its own kind of internal culture here, no matter what it may be - and seeing how both the culture changes, and how the influx and mix of new and old denizens impact that culture and the events in the forum is fascinating and fun to witness. It also helps that my favourite type of comedy is nonsensical and inconsequential things that have way too much effort laid into them,Achromalia wrote:
ngl i have no memory of two years ago,, you might've been there if i reflect hard enough but i have a pretty blurry concept of it, i know that roleplay was going on at the time but it didn't really feel the samePolyspora wrote:
you guys talk about RP like its something I didnt experience lol
it was all we did 2 years ago
its exactly carrying the memory of what this place once was, to what it is now that hurts a little.
anyway cant even quote some of the government shit I did and started because the mods probably deleted half of my posts history by now :shrug:
what i wonder about is more of whether you were there five years ago, because i would've hoped to remember you somewhere in all that, but there is an entire blank space there beyond specific memories and regrets with very little room for people that i didn't already interact with at the time... most relevant for me was the 2018-2020 timeframe, anything after then is hard to hold onto
but i'm sure you must've been at least loosely aware of all that's happened in the lore, i think i just have particular localized feelings and experiences/impressions of it, so i would've thought it would still be accurate to speak as though you weren't quite there in the same contexts at the same time
what do you mean when you refer to the memory of off-topic? how has it grown to hurt over time? i don't really know what it was like in 2022 since i was no longer really involved
edit: actually... i've been noticing those threads of people missing original friend groups, specifically the jarcrafted-sycla (and...? i forgot the other two) threads. i thiiink they were there at the time, and i imagine that had a significant effect on off-topic... there was probably also keremaru? i don't know if i'm misremembering the timing of this but i think the pink-text friend had been roleplaying with some kind of airship and had a war with abraker or something. i wonder if those were tangentially related to what you've seen
I think it's a nice little break from the munday everyday to just allow ourselves to be silly sometimes and enjoy forums such as these, which is why it's always a delight to check in now-and-then and see the forum still thriving, if somewhat different
two years ago you disappeared off to farm thread necroAchromalia wrote:
ngl i have no memory of two years ago,, you might've been there if i reflect hard enough but i have a pretty blurry concept of it, i know that roleplay was going on at the time but it didn't really feel the same
mmmm yeah that seems about right, and then i also left tn for 15 months at some pointabraker wrote:
two years ago you disappeared off to farm thread necroAchromalia wrote:
ngl i have no memory of two years ago,, you might've been there if i reflect hard enough but i have a pretty blurry concept of it, i know that roleplay was going on at the time but it didn't really feel the same
i mean i think i visited here sometimes during that period? but i just was not as invested as before and eventually went silent. i think i do remember something though, as though i also was weary or fearful of being visible to people who had any connection with my younger selves and could view me from that continuous narrative of history. i was and still am afraid of really having any presence anywhere, but ultimately my need to socialize and try to remain grounded through communication with people won out and so i'm here anyway despite it probably being part of the many things i've come to regret and will grow to regret
i often want to thoroughly rewrite who i've been and who i am and what fundamentally composes how i've grown. something about heavy compulsions toward image-management and emotional immaturity because of a deep sense of alienation and inability to understand people the way i'd hoped to
all of that continued a cycle of radio silence, but
now i'm here
salvaged some stuff if you wanna take a readAchromalia wrote:
Polyspora wrote:
you guys talk about RP like its something I didnt experience lol
it was all we did 2 years ago
its exactly carrying the memory of what this place once was, to what it is now that hurts a little.
anyway cant even quote some of the government shit I did and started because the mods probably deleted half of my posts history by now :shrug:ngl i have no memory of two years ago,, you might've been there if i reflect hard enough but i have a pretty blurry concept of it, i know that roleplay was going on at the time but it didn't really feel the same
what i wonder about is more of whether you were there five years ago, because i would've hoped to remember you somewhere in all that, but there is an entire blank space there beyond specific memories and regrets with very little room for people that i didn't already interact with at the time... most relevant for me was the 2018-2020 timeframe, anything after then is hard to hold onto
but i'm sure you must've been at least loosely aware of all that's happened in the lore, i think i just have particular localized feelings and experiences/impressions of it, so i would've thought it would still be accurate to speak as though you weren't quite there in the same contexts at the same time
what do you mean when you refer to the memory of off-topic? how has it grown to hurt over time? i don't really know what it was like in 2022 since i was no longer really involved
edit: actually... i've been noticing those threads of people missing original friend groups, specifically the jarcrafted-sycla (and...? i forgot the other two) threads. i thiiink they were there at the time, and i imagine that had a significant effect on off-topic... there was probably also keremaru? i don't know if i'm misremembering the timing of this but i think the pink-text friend had been roleplaying with some kind of airship and had a war with abraker or something. i wonder if those were tangentially related to what you've seen
community/forums/topics/1739580?n=1
community/forums/topics/1659920?n=1
community/forums/topics/1689778?n=1
also some efforts to make GMT and the government be one entity in OT, well... I guess I shot myself in the foot.
i seem to have avoided joining anythingPolyspora wrote:
salvaged some stuff if you wanna take a readAchromalia wrote:
Polyspora wrote:
you guys talk about RP like its something I didnt experience lol
it was all we did 2 years ago
its exactly carrying the memory of what this place once was, to what it is now that hurts a little.
anyway cant even quote some of the government shit I did and started because the mods probably deleted half of my posts history by now :shrug:ngl i have no memory of two years ago,, you might've been there if i reflect hard enough but i have a pretty blurry concept of it, i know that roleplay was going on at the time but it didn't really feel the same
what i wonder about is more of whether you were there five years ago, because i would've hoped to remember you somewhere in all that, but there is an entire blank space there beyond specific memories and regrets with very little room for people that i didn't already interact with at the time... most relevant for me was the 2018-2020 timeframe, anything after then is hard to hold onto
but i'm sure you must've been at least loosely aware of all that's happened in the lore, i think i just have particular localized feelings and experiences/impressions of it, so i would've thought it would still be accurate to speak as though you weren't quite there in the same contexts at the same time
what do you mean when you refer to the memory of off-topic? how has it grown to hurt over time? i don't really know what it was like in 2022 since i was no longer really involved
edit: actually... i've been noticing those threads of people missing original friend groups, specifically the jarcrafted-sycla (and...? i forgot the other two) threads. i thiiink they were there at the time, and i imagine that had a significant effect on off-topic... there was probably also keremaru? i don't know if i'm misremembering the timing of this but i think the pink-text friend had been roleplaying with some kind of airship and had a war with abraker or something. i wonder if those were tangentially related to what you've seen
community/forums/topics/1739580?n=1
community/forums/topics/1659920?n=1
community/forums/topics/1689778?n=1
also some efforts to make GMT and the government be one entity in OT, well... I guess I shot myself in the foot.
i enjoyed reading these ^^ i can't say i completely understand what was happening at the time but i think this clarifies the atmosphere of those days a little bit more for me, thank you... i never got to see until nowPolyspora wrote:
salvaged some stuff if you wanna take a readAchromalia wrote:
Polyspora wrote:
you guys talk about RP like its something I didnt experience lol
it was all we did 2 years ago
its exactly carrying the memory of what this place once was, to what it is now that hurts a little.
anyway cant even quote some of the government shit I did and started because the mods probably deleted half of my posts history by now :shrug:ngl i have no memory of two years ago,, you might've been there if i reflect hard enough but i have a pretty blurry concept of it, i know that roleplay was going on at the time but it didn't really feel the same
what i wonder about is more of whether you were there five years ago, because i would've hoped to remember you somewhere in all that, but there is an entire blank space there beyond specific memories and regrets with very little room for people that i didn't already interact with at the time... most relevant for me was the 2018-2020 timeframe, anything after then is hard to hold onto
but i'm sure you must've been at least loosely aware of all that's happened in the lore, i think i just have particular localized feelings and experiences/impressions of it, so i would've thought it would still be accurate to speak as though you weren't quite there in the same contexts at the same time
what do you mean when you refer to the memory of off-topic? how has it grown to hurt over time? i don't really know what it was like in 2022 since i was no longer really involved
edit: actually... i've been noticing those threads of people missing original friend groups, specifically the jarcrafted-sycla (and...? i forgot the other two) threads. i thiiink they were there at the time, and i imagine that had a significant effect on off-topic... there was probably also keremaru? i don't know if i'm misremembering the timing of this but i think the pink-text friend had been roleplaying with some kind of airship and had a war with abraker or something. i wonder if those were tangentially related to what you've seen
community/forums/topics/1739580?n=1
community/forums/topics/1659920?n=1
community/forums/topics/1689778?n=1
also some efforts to make GMT and the government be one entity in OT, well... I guess I shot myself in the foot.
i still have not understood you enough to see what you've been trying to convey but that is not something i want to make out to be your problem to solve, i just am not totally attuned and attentive right now to know how to meaningfully digest what was happening
also, not a serious note but just so i can express how i see these: the way i interpret your responses and tone can be a little simultaneously frustrating at times and intimidating at others, i think i just have not really learned how to let go of my sensitivities with argumentation and banter
but i seem to frequently ask myself why people so readily respond sarcastically in ways that don't really construct anything, where they instead just appear to sabotage the entire argument... but then moments later, there are things that Are generally taken seriously and carefully, it's a sort of tonal whiplash... fascinating, things i wish i knew how to rationalize and understand