forum

Osu and reading.

posted
Total Posts
25
Topic Starter
Lizto
So, I'm a medschool student, 'cause of my studies, I need to read A TON. I have reasons to believe Osu can improve your reading speed. Part of the reason why I've been attracted to play this game as of recent, since it can count for entertainment while perhaps train my eyes for faster reading.

The question is, do you feel this is true? And if so, pls elaborate a bit how you feel Osu has helped you at reading :)
Jarby
Honestly, I have no reason to believe that. I've played osu! for years and noticed no difference in reading text. A better sense of rhythm, perhaps.
Taadashi
I only believe Osu! would improve your mouse-accuracy and reaction speed tbh. Reading speed... not so much.
Topic Starter
Lizto
Osu does force the eye to analize information faster, which is part of what gives you faster reaction. One of the aspects speed reading courses try to improve, is how fast your eye can move around and gather the information.

Im sure many people would disagree, and I have no proof, which is why atleast Im seeking for people's opinions, however, just because osu has nothing to do with reading doesnt mean it cannot impact on your reading, such is the case as many of the excercises in speed reading courses. Either way its very hard to meassure unless you do experimentation towards that purpose.

thank you guys, still hoping to get more feedback
thelewa
YOUR EYE DOES NO ANALYZING BY ITSELF JESUS FUCK

HOW ARE YOU A FUCKING MED STUDENT
piruchan

thelewa wrote:

YOUR EYE DOES NO ANALYZING BY ITSELF JESUS FUCK

HOW ARE YOU A FUCKING MED STUDENT
^That is .......

On topic : Honestly, I don't think osu! helps you read faster, I don't even think it relates to reading. But I'm already a fast reader(based on every person I've met on real life standard) to begin with, so don't value this too high :) .
Bweh
The kind of information you get from a book compared to a screen full of circles is fundamentally different. Even if your eye movements improved from playing osu that wouldn't help your reading comprehension in the slightest. Knowing when and where to hit a circle faster really won't improve your ability to note that Gawain is stupid or that your neighbor is a terrorist. It just doesn't link.

Speed reading is a shaky subject anyway. Personally I just avoid doing that because I'd end up focusing more on "GOTTA GO FAST" rather than understanding the text in front of me.
Shivarion

Brian OA wrote:

Speed reading is a shaky subject anyway. Personally I just avoid doing that because I'd end up focusing more on "GOTTA GO FAST" rather than understanding the text in front of me.
AGREE !!
I just read everything slowly in purpose to get better comprehension of the text in front of me......
Topic Starter
Lizto

thelewa wrote:

YOUR EYE DOES NO ANALYZING BY ITSELF JESUS FUCK

HOW ARE YOU A FUCKING MED STUDENT
Oh wow, you are definitely the smart one, Im sorry if you take things too literal, it obviously is the nervous system, but do I need to get into details? I believe the dumbest of people would be able to understand the point... yet you didnt... Im not pompous so why would I bother explaining.

@Brian OA I never said it would give you reading comprehension, but the game does revolve around skimming through the screen looking for numbers and recognizing them, surely enough there are patterns, but sometimes it does get quite erratical

Oh well, it seems the community here is not very open minded, let alone nice to newcomers. Im only looking for opinions, and I certainly got them, yet I wish responses had been atleast carved with a little more respect.
GladiOol
So, this is the type of question you ponder upon. I find that more interesting.
SV001
Just learn how to.
http://www.spritzinc.com/

There is a method that split the text in 3 part and you read the part, not the full sentences and it work.
Shivarion

Lizto wrote:

thelewa wrote:

YOUR EYE DOES NO ANALYZING BY ITSELF JESUS FUCK

HOW ARE YOU A FUCKING MED STUDENT
Oh wow, you are definitely the smart one, Im sorry if you take things too literal, it obviously is the nervous system, but do I need to get into details? I believe the dumbest of people would be able to understand the point... yet you didnt... Im not pompous so why would I bother explaining.

@Brian OA I never said it would give you reading comprehension, but the game does revolve around skimming through the screen looking for numbers and recognizing them, surely enough there are patterns, but sometimes it does get quite erratical

Oh well, it seems the community here is not very open minded, let alone nice to newcomers. Im only looking for opinions, and I certainly got them, yet I wish responses had been atleast carved with a little more respect.
He always been like that....
nooph
i read a bit for entertainment, myself, and i haven't noticed any change in my reading speed after playing osu again for about half a year now. that being said, i'd hope that you actually comprehend the text rather than just flicking your eyes through it, like brian mentioned.

Brian OA wrote:

Speed reading is a shaky subject anyway. Personally I just avoid doing that because I'd end up focusing more on "GOTTA GO FAST" rather than understanding the text in front of me.
thelewa

Lizto wrote:

thelewa wrote:

YOUR EYE DOES NO ANALYZING BY ITSELF JESUS FUCK

HOW ARE YOU A FUCKING MED STUDENT
Oh wow, you are definitely the smart one, Im sorry if you take things too literal, it obviously is the nervous system, but do I need to get into details? I believe the dumbest of people would be able to understand the point... yet you didnt... Im not pompous so why would I bother explaining.

@Brian OA I never said it would give you reading comprehension, but the game does revolve around skimming through the screen looking for numbers and recognizing them, surely enough there are patterns, but sometimes it does get quite erratical

Oh well, it seems the community here is not very open minded, let alone nice to newcomers. Im only looking for opinions, and I certainly got them, yet I wish responses had been atleast carved with a little more respect.
stupid questions get stupid answers

besides, the fact that you're even pondering this thing instead of just reading to get better at reading is quite something

I can throw together a constructive response though:
I've been playing this game at the highest level for almost 4 years now. At the same time I've been studying for exams and whatnot and my reading speed has stayed the exact same. While my eyes might be more accustomed to constant quick movement now, my reading comprehension is still the same. This started improving only when I started reading A LOT, just like you would expect it to. While some may think that being more accustomed to constantly moving your eyes fast might help you initially, it does not.
The information you comprehend in osu! is also really different from reading comprehension and it's SPECIFIC to osu! itself. I mean that while you get faster at spotting those circles, nothing else changes.

You mentioned that the whole game focuses on skimming the screen. The area you skim through is a lot larger and less focused than a book is, and as such it really does not help at all.
ivan

thelewa wrote:

YOUR EYE DOES NO ANALYZING BY ITSELF JESUS FUCK

HOW ARE YOU A FUCKING MED STUDENT
Topic Starter
Lizto

thelewa wrote:

Lizto wrote:

Oh wow, you are definitely the smart one, Im sorry if you take things too literal, it obviously is the nervous system, but do I need to get into details? I believe the dumbest of people would be able to understand the point... yet you didnt... Im not pompous so why would I bother explaining.

@Brian OA I never said it would give you reading comprehension, but the game does revolve around skimming through the screen looking for numbers and recognizing them, surely enough there are patterns, but sometimes it does get quite erratical

Oh well, it seems the community here is not very open minded, let alone nice to newcomers. Im only looking for opinions, and I certainly got them, yet I wish responses had been atleast carved with a little more respect.
stupid questions get stupid answers

besides, the fact that you're even pondering this thing instead of just reading to get better at reading is quite something

I can throw together a constructive response though:
I've been playing this game at the highest level for almost 4 years now. At the same time I've been studying for exams and whatnot and my reading speed has stayed the exact same. While my eyes might be more accustomed to constant quick movement now, my reading comprehension is still the same. This started improving only when I started reading A LOT, just like you would expect it to. While some may think that being more accustomed to constantly moving your eyes fast might help you initially, it does not.
The information you comprehend in osu! is also really different from reading comprehension and it's SPECIFIC to osu! itself. I mean that while you get faster at spotting those circles, nothing else changes.

You mentioned that the whole game focuses on skimming the screen. The area you skim through is a lot larger and less focused than a book is, and as such it really does not help at all.
First of all, I dont know why you are such a dick. That being said, since you dont study in medschool, you have no idea regarding my reading needs. Lets not forget you are also completely clueless how the human body works, so why even say the information is different when you truly dont know... go study some, and then come back, if you want, I can help you find nice neuroscience bibliography for you to culturize yourself a bit with. I came here to ask for peoples opinions, and like I said, I sure got theirs, Im not even trying to force anyone to believe you can read faster cause of it. I just said, I have human physiology knowledge which leads me to believe playing Osu can improve reading speed, if it doesnt then wohoo, I was wrong, its not like I made any scientific studies to proof anything.

Do you even know how speed reading works? because you seem to be ignorant about the matter "The area you skim through is a lot larger and less focused than a book is" by that I can pretty much tell you dont, speed reading is about reading whole sentences at the time, while normal reading (which btw has been proven to be a lackluster method for reading, but since its the best way to teach toddlers and not many try to relearn how to read more efficiently cause they dont even know you could do so much better) reads word by word, making the process way slower.

Obviously, speed reading does compromise reading comprehension, but like I said my reading needs dont always require that much comprehension, when reading scientific papers for example, usually you read the abstract and if you feel like yeah that paper works for w.e you looking for, you can go on reading, but many times youre wrong, and you usually need to read tons of them each day... speed reading helps in that regard, yeah when you actually find the right one, you will go into details, when needed. But since youre not even in college level, pls, stop talking like youre so good.

For the record, you only feel you keep improving the more you read because you barely read anything, youre too busy "playing this game at the highest levle for almost 4 years now". While it is true, you do improve, theres a point brain pathways will be fully developed, improving your reading capacity will only be ever so little from that point on, and trying new things does help with neuroplasticity, which would in return help you read faster... Hell, because of neuroplasticity, you could probably play chess and still improve your reading. Back when I started medschool, I was told to do puzzles, such as sudoku, as it would improve my memory. See where Im going? you dont know how the brain works, so stop talking shit.

Bohoo Im sorry if Im dedicating an average of 9 hours of class a day and around 80 hours of study at home each week, fuck you youre just a twat who needs some education. Now stop being such a dick to people who may one day save your life or at the very least improve your quality of life.

Im grumpy as hell but damn son, you, youre not even in college, you should be getting enough sleep and are such a dickhead? get a life haha
NotEvenDoomMusic
I'm eagerly waiting for Kanye West to pop up here
piruchan
I think we need a moderator here........
Taadashi
Lock this thread please. It's scaring me. ;_;
Shivarion

Lizto wrote:

thelewa wrote:

Oh wow, you are definitely the smart one, Im sorry if you take things too literal, it obviously is the nervous system, but do I need to get into details? I believe the dumbest of people would be able to understand the point... yet you didnt... Im not pompous so why would I bother explaining.

@Brian OA I never said it would give you reading comprehension, but the game does revolve around skimming through the screen looking for numbers and recognizing them, surely enough there are patterns, but sometimes it does get quite erratical

Oh well, it seems the community here is not very open minded, let alone nice to newcomers. Im only looking for opinions, and I certainly got them, yet I wish responses had been atleast carved with a little more respect.
stupid questions get stupid answers

besides, the fact that you're even pondering this thing instead of just reading to get better at reading is quite something

I can throw together a constructive response though:
I've been playing this game at the highest level for almost 4 years now. At the same time I've been studying for exams and whatnot and my reading speed has stayed the exact same. While my eyes might be more accustomed to constant quick movement now, my reading comprehension is still the same. This started improving only when I started reading A LOT, just like you would expect it to. While some may think that being more accustomed to constantly moving your eyes fast might help you initially, it does not.
The information you comprehend in osu! is also really different from reading comprehension and it's SPECIFIC to osu! itself. I mean that while you get faster at spotting those circles, nothing else changes.

You mentioned that the whole game focuses on skimming the screen. The area you skim through is a lot larger and less focused than a book is, and as such it really does not help at all.
First of all, I dont know why you are such a dick. That being said, since you dont study in medschool, you have no idea regarding my reading needs. Lets not forget you are also completely clueless how the human body works, so why even say the information is different when you truly dont know... go study some, and then come back, if you want, I can help you find nice neuroscience bibliography for you to culturize yourself a bit with. I came here to ask for peoples opinions, and like I said, I sure got theirs, Im not even trying to force anyone to believe you can read faster cause of it. I just said, I have human physiology knowledge which leads me to believe playing Osu can improve reading speed, if it doesnt then wohoo, I was wrong, its not like I made any scientific studies to proof anything.

Do you even know how speed reading works? because you seem to be ignorant about the matter "The area you skim through is a lot larger and less focused than a book is" by that I can pretty much tell you dont, speed reading is about reading whole sentences at the time, while normal reading (which btw has been proven to be a lackluster method for reading, but since its the best way to teach toddlers and not many try to relearn how to read more efficiently cause they dont even know you could do so much better) reads word by word, making the process way slower.

Obviously, speed reading does compromise reading comprehension, but like I said my reading needs dont always require that much comprehension, when reading scientific papers for example, usually you read the abstract and if you feel like yeah that paper works for w.e you looking for, you can go on reading, but many times youre wrong, and you usually need to read tons of them each day... speed reading helps in that regard, yeah when you actually find the right one, you will go into details, when needed. But since youre not even in college level, pls, stop talking like youre so good.

For the record, you only feel you keep improving the more you read because you barely read anything, youre too busy "playing this game at the highest levle for almost 4 years now". While it is true, you do improve, theres a point brain pathways will be fully developed, improving your reading capacity will only be ever so little from that point on, and trying new things does help with neuroplasticity, which would in return help you read faster... Hell, because of neuroplasticity, you could probably play chess and still improve your reading. Back when I started medschool, I was told to do puzzles, such as sudoku, as it would improve my memory. See where Im going? you dont know how the brain works, so stop talking shit.

Bohoo Im sorry if Im dedicating an average of 9 hours of class a day and around 80 hours of study at home each week, fuck you youre just a twat who needs some education. Now stop being such a dick to people who may one day save your life or at the very least improve your quality of life.

Im grumpy as hell but damn son, you, youre not even in college, you should be getting enough sleep and are such a dickhead? get a life haha
and here's the argument
thelewa

Lizto wrote:

First of all, I dont know why you are such a dick. That being said, since you dont study in medschool, you have no idea regarding my reading needs. Lets not forget you are also completely clueless how the human body works, so why even say the information is different when you truly dont know... go study some, and then come back, if you want, I can help you find nice neuroscience bibliography for you to culturize yourself a bit with. I came here to ask for peoples opinions, and like I said, I sure got theirs, Im not even trying to force anyone to believe you can read faster cause of it. I just said, I have human physiology knowledge which leads me to believe playing Osu can improve reading speed, if it doesnt then wohoo, I was wrong, its not like I made any scientific studies to proof anything.

Do you even know how speed reading works? because you seem to be ignorant about the matter "The area you skim through is a lot larger and less focused than a book is" by that I can pretty much tell you dont, speed reading is about reading whole sentences at the time, while normal reading (which btw has been proven to be a lackluster method for reading, but since its the best way to teach toddlers and not many try to relearn how to read more efficiently cause they dont even know you could do so much better) reads word by word, making the process way slower.

Obviously, speed reading does compromise reading comprehension, but like I said my reading needs dont always require that much comprehension, when reading scientific papers for example, usually you read the abstract and if you feel like yeah that paper works for w.e you looking for, you can go on reading, but many times youre wrong, and you usually need to read tons of them each day... speed reading helps in that regard, yeah when you actually find the right one, you will go into details, when needed. But since youre not even in college level, pls, stop talking like youre so good.

For the record, you only feel you keep improving the more you read because you barely read anything, youre too busy "playing this game at the highest levle for almost 4 years now". While it is true, you do improve, theres a point brain pathways will be fully developed, improving your reading capacity will only be ever so little from that point on, and trying new things does help with neuroplasticity, which would in return help you read faster... Hell, because of neuroplasticity, you could probably play chess and still improve your reading. Back when I started medschool, I was told to do puzzles, such as sudoku, as it would improve my memory. See where Im going? you dont know how the brain works, so stop talking shit.

Bohoo Im sorry if Im dedicating an average of 9 hours of class a day and around 80 hours of study at home each week, fuck you youre just a twat who needs some education. Now stop being such a dick to people who may one day save your life or at the very least improve your quality of life.

Im grumpy as hell but damn son, you, youre not even in college, you should be getting enough sleep and are such a dickhead? get a life haha
I was expecting better from you considering your somewhat civilized line of education, but you have magnificently proven yourself to being a complete and utter fool.

Your whole post was dedicated to attacking me instead of properly addressing the points that I made, which is something that I find extremely amusing taking into consideration that at first you seemed to have dedicated all that text to prove me wrong. All that you did throughout that text was constantly call me out on not being in medschool, while showing your utter confusion regarding to what playing osu! is actually like.

What I found especially funny was this part:

Do you even know how speed reading works? because you seem to be ignorant about the matter "The area you skim through is a lot larger and less focused than a book is" by that I can pretty much tell you dont, speed reading is about reading whole sentences at the time, while normal reading (which btw has been proven to be a lackluster method for reading, but since its the best way to teach toddlers and not many try to relearn how to read more efficiently cause they dont even know you could do so much better) reads word by word, making the process way slower.
I have to applaud you for comparing me to a toddler. That was very imaginative of you, especially when my avatar is a baby. Explaining why you're wrong would take too much time, so how about you watch a replay of some dude playing a hard map and instantly see why.

Now this part is also interesting:

But since youre not even in college level, pls, stop talking like youre so good.
This would be a good jab at me if determining whether I'm in college right now wasn't impossible due to the differing nature of education in different countries. Which leads me to wonder how you even came up to that conclusion in the first place. Certainly a smart man like yourself would know that when judging the level of a person's education in terms of his age, you have to factor in a leeway of at least 2 years because of what I just stated. Oh, and I am at college level right now which is why I find this so amusing.

This next part is also very interesting:

For the record, you only feel you keep improving the more you read because you barely read anything, youre too busy "playing this game at the highest levle for almost 4 years now".
Here you seem to be misunderstanding something. osu! is not keeping me busy. I'm baffled as to why you would even think of that, considering that my profile shows that I don't play this game much nowadays. You can even see that most of my time played was during the first two years. Certainly a smart man studying in medschool, being better than everyone else, would have made sure to check out information about the guy he's personally attacking. I mean, it takes less effort than writing all that you did write for me. Considering that you assumed because of this that I barely read, it's a grave mistake.

Now this is where it all certainly falls apart:

Bohoo Im sorry if Im dedicating an average of 9 hours of class a day and around 80 hours of study at home each week
I mean, what? Are you seriously resorting to this? I thought you were intelligent.
First off, you tell me how much of your time you spend in doing studying, in an attempt to show how much better you are than me. I can see this being a great tactic for attacking someone, but you're using it all wrong. You're being too obvious about wanting to show that you're a better person than who you're attacking. And right after that you just fall apart. I mean, I was expecting something out of you and you give me this?

fuck you, you're just a twat who needs some education. Now stop being such a dick to people who may one day save your life or at the very least improve your quality of life.
At this point the impact of everything you said became nonexistent. Nothing you stated mattered anymore. This is all that matters. This is what defines all that text that you wrote. It is also what defines you. You seem to believe that you're somehow better than than the rest because you're in medschool. You believe that this gives you a right to stomp over other people, while not giving any explanations as to why they might be wrong. The only explanation you need is that you're in medschool and they're not. Let's disregard everything else. You're obviously the intelligent one and whatever anyone else says will not change that.

At least that's what that part says about you. I don't know if it's intentional or not, because your whole text seemed to be written under the effects of rustled jimmies. I won't even go into the last sentences because they're just too sad to look at. They make me feel bad for you.
tyrael6192

lizto wrote:

i'm really educated, and that justifies me saying stupid shit and instantly resorting to ad hominem whenever someone calls me out
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contradictio_in_terminis
Topic Starter
Lizto

tyrael6192 wrote:

lizto wrote:

i'm really educated, and that justifies me saying stupid shit and instantly resorting to ad hominem whenever someone calls me out
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contradictio_in_terminis
wait what? Its not my fault if someone insults me, I just respond accordingly, Im not even trying to sound smart, did you even see my first post? infact, have I even been giving thorough explanations on everything to really prove Im educated? no, I just said, Im a medschool student (which would imply I have certain knowledge) and that I believe Osu can improve your reading speed.

@thelewa, that, though you may feel so (which is a biased point of view to read my posts if you ask me), I did not attack you. "I dont know why you are such a dick" I guess thats the closest to attacking you, yet I believe its more like yeah, youre not respecting me, and Im showing I feel disrespected. I did address the points that you made, but you just kept implying I was stupid. Its funny, I havent even called you stupid, Ive just said you are under different circumstances, you dont go to medschool, so how could you possibly know my needs? is that really attacking you? You have your own idea of what osu really is, and I respect that, now stop trying to force me into thinking like you, because you simply wont accomplish it... mainly because you dont even know what youre talking about, youre talking with observation... hence youre being empirical, me on the other hand are being theoretical. In theory osu can improve your reading is what I said, and if you knew about the nervous system, youd know its actually very much possible.

as for me comparing you to a toddler, read carefully, and realize I did not, I said people read the way they read because thats how they were taught to do so. Why was that in the first place? because its the most effective way to teach toddlers. I never, not once said you read like a toddler, even though you probably use the same method toddlers use and will use for the rest of their lives. Theres nothing wrong with that, do you really feel insulted because I called you average or something? Let me tell you something, I use that method too, Im not trying to insult myself.

"This would be a good jab at me if determining whether I'm in college right now wasn't impossible due to the differing nature of education in different countries. Which leads me to wonder how you even came up to that conclusion in the first place. Certainly a smart man like yourself would know that when judging the level of a person's education in terms of his age, you have to factor in a leeway of at least 2 years because of what I just stated. Oh, and I am at college level right now which is why I find this so amusing."

Except, I actually know 2 finnish people, one of them started college when he was 19 as he finished highschool when he was 18. so seeing you are 18, I can assume you are probably (though not definitely) in highschool, and forgive me if I was wrong once again it was never meant to serve as an insult, just saying youre in different conditions to mine. And as you can see yes I did happen to check your account, just read like ok youre 18 and have played like 120k games iirc. You saying you played most of your games in your first 2 years makes me wonder how did you even get into a good college? woops did I just attack you, well Ive never said I was better than everyone else, you on the other hand with your "been playing osu in the highest level for 4 years now" seems way more cocky to me, playing osu at such a high level surely is more impressive than doing something only 1.2% of the aspiring students can actually accomplish, as I believe statistically speaking being in your ranking is way harder than getting into medschool, props to you bro, props to you.

The comment about me having to dedicate X amount of hours a week to my studies was only meant to prepare the sitation for me to say Im sorry if Im grumpy "Im grumpy as hell but damn son, you, youre not even in college, you should be getting enough sleep and are such a dickhead? get a life haha" woopsie I guess I did attack you, "such a dickhead? get a life haha" but didnt you say my whole post was about that? Yet it wasnt, I only stated youre being a dick. Would it make you happier if I said I think you are a dick?

Just so you know a little more about me. Yes Im a medschool student, proud of it, its very tough getting into one, my grades are well above average (would you be surprised after spending that many hours), I think things logically, and Im pretty good at it, Ive proven to have good mental capacity, earning me various scholarships in the UK when I was younger. No I dont feel superior to anyone, Im asperger, Im not particularly tall, nor athletic, Im not even the best at remembering stuff, something many medschool students have as their best trait. If youd ask me, Im a better engineer, I did go to an engineering school for a year, I wasnt sure what I wanted to do with my life back then, I felt being a psyquiatrist which has been my dream since I was NINE was too much responsibility and just went for what Im more suited for... Shows much courage to be desired from me. I have very few friends though its no wonder if you read Im asperger, and actually Ive gone to therapists to improve my self esteem... Im pretty sure you couldnt be more wrong by saying "You seem to believe that you're somehow better than than the rest because you're in medschool."

For the record, if you easily change someones opinion about something, thats because they didnt have much knowledge about it in the first place. If you try to change someones well stablished opinion about something, he will have to go through cognitive dissonance, and that not only requires scenerios that completely refute the original idea, but it usually even takes several of them until the person is convinced of the new idea. Its either that, or you're stubborn, as Ive studied various years about the human body, Id like to believe thats the reason you will not change my mind. I didnt even come here to change people's minds, nor to get people to change mine, I only came here to ask for people's opinions and as I said in one of my first posts, I got their opinion, and they contradict mine, doesnt particularly mean Im wrong, doesnt particularly mean you are. Only thing you can truly say is that both opinions are different and until there isnt a scientific experimentation, neither you nor I will be able to prove one another wrong. And trust me, Id love you, or anyone really to be able to prove me wrong, as I would then be certain how things really are.
Liiraye
Honestly what the hell guys!? The walls of texts double for each fkn reply.

I'm also waiting for kanye to drop a sentence or two and end the discussion.

A fundamental ability of an intellectual is to - in a simple way - explain complicated shit to the common reader. Just saying...
dkun
fire + gas = bigger fire. i'm sure even a med student can understand this, right?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=INTERNET+TROLLS

this thread is done.
Please sign in to reply.

New reply