1. osu! forums
  2. osu!
  3. Development
show more
posted
As a player,it's disturbing that I make an amazing score but failed to update it
N a n o has bye ge dan because of this problem
And I often off line suddenly,especially when I am mp with others
It's said that this thing also happened in OWC
Network problem is so difficult,isn't it?
I hope it will be promoted

英语只有小学水平真抱歉/I'm sorry my English is so poor
posted

P2O5 wrote:

As a player,it's disturbing that I make an amazing score but failed to update it
Please avoid using this thread to just complain about any issues you are having. There is a forum specifically for that.
posted
Just forget all the google translating things.
Play until you get into top #5000 with a normal account and using a normal internet service as most players do.This would take much time but as much the help.
Or try to edit a map and get it ranked with a normal account, which means nobody knows who you are.
You can't understand a game well without being an active player(mapper), even if it is written by you.
posted
t/169490

So when exactly did you listen to the community? You just trampled over everyone's opinion to satisfy your own ideal whether it was the right decision or not. It's not a one time occurrence either. It's this very nature about you that gets the member's of the other game modes irritated.

And I agree, the dev doesn't even know his own game. Quite sad.
posted

peppy wrote:

If you honestly think I don't listen to players then I'm spent. Honestly. Maybe it feels like I don't because you don't speak English when you complain?

Please let me know how you expect me to listen more than I already do (reading all forums threads, reading and participating in chat, sharing this kind of post in public, streaming development, opening uip osu! as far as possible via SDK/APIs, expanding the team as fast as i can to make sure things are handled).

Maybe you should also try comparing osu! to other games out there. I think to some extent, you guys are spoilt by what you are receiving. It is easy to expect the world since you are already getting so much.
I think you listen more than people are saying but the biggest problem is that you don't respond well to criticism. You also tend to sidestep the main argument someone is making when responding to them.

responses like this: t/169490 do not go over well. There's no explanation for why you disagree with it, there's no chance for the community to discuss the idea, just a single 2 line blunt response and the thread is immediately locked. This is a perfect example of not listening to the community. This is a good example of actively refusing to allow the community to even discuss things on their own either.
posted
All osu! game modes will have hitsounds at all times. This is the one thing I will not listen to people on. I believe I know best. There are other games you can play/map without hitsounds if you want. If you disagree with me on this fundamental issue, then osu! is not for you.

My response was blunt and concise because I have nothing more to say on it. Hitsounds are osu!. They are the reason I made this game (ouendan got me hooked by the way it built on existing tracks with hitsounds. it led me to wanting to make my own songs with this kind of additions, which is why i made osu!) and one of the most core values in it.

Yes, that is one example, but I challenge you to find others.

You osu!mania players came to osu! and tried to impose your own values on what is my game. I have a right to disagree if I feel strongly. This doesn't mean I am not listening. Don't forget the many conversations I had with you mania players in the early days regarding this.
posted
Do you mind if I try to offer another translation?
I think the previous translation might be missing something.
I'll try my very best at using the same sentence structure, as certain parts of the post may actually be emotionally loaded.
posted

peppy wrote:

All osu! game modes will have hitsounds at all times. This is the one thing I will not listen to people on. I believe I know best. There are other games you can play/map without hitsounds if you want. If you disagree with me on this fundamental issue, then osu! is not for you.
I definitely understand this position, and it's what I figured your view on things was, but this is a more aggressive response than is really necessary.

I disagree with this view, but I'm not going to say that it's any sort of requirement. For me, the way you responded to that is more of a problem than hitsounding anyway.
posted
woc is so sad
hand bear thinking
posted
Well it's kind of hard to fish them up when you've locked and deleted every single one.
posted
Sorry, peppy, for let you reading my emotional thread out there.
Please let me explain some misunderstanding.

The MAIN reason i think i'd better to leave is: I can't understand you. Not all the reasons i list in thread.
In details, I'm working in a Chinese game company which provide games for nearly 300million players, if some cases like hitsounds (Opposed by lots players) happened in my company, we will remove it and release new build the next day.

It's nothing about whether i like it or not, but players like. Serve the players, is what i learnt in past 3 years in company.

Although osu! is not a commercial game, but I believed in the creed.

the second MAIN reason is i feel guilty for mania code, it's really hard to understand (even me at now) and i want to start from zero with a new mania, which i think it's impossible to implement that project based on osu. If i really start the project, it could be a opponent of osu!, so it's better for me to choose quit rather than work on both.

About the github operation, i just deleted some really old branches which won't be merged.
posted
開源哥鎮樓
posted
I agree peppy often uses blunt force trauma, but I disagree with all this criticism- I'm amazed at how good a job he does despite the constant attrition any developer of an online community thing receives. None of you really know me; I wouldn't say such things lightly. I am usually very critical.

One thing I do agree with and I had noticed a long while ago, peppy hasn't really sat down to enjoy his own game like any player would.

Although osu! is not a commercial game, but I believed in the creed.
I like osu! because it doesn't succumb to this creed. This creed is my biggest complaint I have with normal big studio games- they try to satisfy as many players to be as marketable as possible vs. doing something with a specific vision regardless of risks. You end up with a totally bland product like those MMOs I see Korea and China churn out every day...

It's impossible to implement every single thing every single player requests, else you end up with design by committee.
It's essential to have a clear philosophical vision if you want your project to be a success.
This. This. This.
posted
It's impossible to implement every single thing every single player requests, else you end up with design by committee.
It's essential to have a clear philosophical vision if you want your project to be a success.

PS. You can already disable hitsounds:
posted
That's not the main issue at hand, at all
posted

mm201 wrote:

It's impossible to implement every single thing every single player requests, else you end up with design by committee.
It's essential to have a clear philosophical vision if you want your project to be a success.

PS. You can already disable hitsounds:
Just saying, but if someone map with hitsound and you disable them then the map might do no sense at all. (by that i mean hit in empty area)
posted

woc2006 wrote:

The MAIN reason i think i'd better to leave is: I can't understand you. Not all the reasons i list in thread.
I guess at the end of the day it is hard to understand (and depending on the person, work with) me because I tend to do things impulsively. I purposely do things differently than expected because I enjoy seeing the results. I like to take risks and if it ends with people getting annoyed, or pointing out obvious flaws with my logic I will amend my ways. You're gonna have to live with that because I'm not going to change.

woc2006 wrote:

the second MAIN reason is i feel guilty for mania code, it's really hard to understand (even me at now) and i want to start from zero with a new mania, which i think it's impossible to implement that project based on osu. If i really start the project, it could be a opponent of osu!, so it's better for me to choose quit rather than work on both.
As I said in my PMs to you, I still believe it is easily fixable. If you are willing to continue to help out, then I'm sure you can make it work. If you aren't, I will make sure it is not abandoned and fix it as I go, along with the rest of my own crappy code that still exists in the codebase. There won't be any casualties either way.
posted
Well, the only other thing I could think to suggest is maybe open up development a bit more than it is. If what woc said about a large portion of the code being mostly unchanged since very early on in osu's life I'm sure there is room for improving the architecture, and while it would be difficult for you or woc by yourselves to improve that code and also manage to deal with bugs and improvements at the same time, if there were more people working on things, it might be easier to manage both dealing with bugs/improvements as well as fixing any fundamental design flaws that exist in the codebase.

EDIT: I do understand that there are difficulties with opening development up more as well.
posted
But that just adds more people who have to communicate and work well together and that's the original problem here.
posted
I'm gonna close thsi thread here now that woc has responded with clarification, and that we have a good translation of the original post. I think it's purpose has been served. If you have anything further you'd like to discuss with me, I'm always contactable via email or in-game PM.

Regarding making development more open: Completely public changelogs, multiple builds a day, daily dev streams, and an end-goal of making osu! open source. Yes, it will take a while to get there, but it will happen.

And honestly, not a lot of code is still remaining from ancient times. Whenever I come across some that exists, I drop everything to rewrite it. Seven years without a rewrite is already too long for a project to continue, and I am well aware that I am pushing the limits here. Sometimes I consider a rewrite, but I am still taking it as a challenge to adapt the existing codebase to make it future proof. And I'm making great progress, trust me. Most of the sprite framework was rewritten last week, which actually triggered me finding some of woc's more ugly code which I had to nuke/improve :P.

I highly suggest you watch my twitch streams if you are interseted in the quality of osu! code. I have very high standards, and take my word that I think the code I wrote in 2007 is some of the worst code I've seen. Code I wrote in 2013 can still be improved. Every year I aim to become better, and write more maintainable code. I honestly think that software engineers that don't have this goal are likely in the wrong profession.
Please sign in to reply.