That seems to be the most logical and the best solution.SapphireGhost wrote:
Alright, looking over the thread, here is another possible compromise to address the "why only Insane" point:A difficulty's name must indicate its level of difficulty, with the exception of the mapper's hardest difficulty. Guest difficulties must be labelled with the mapper's name and their level of difficulty. Marathon maps with a single difficulty are allowed free naming.
To address _Gezo_'s question, combining a mapper and difficulty's name is currently allowed and still will be under the new proposed rules.
forum
[Rule change] Custom diff names
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89
Don't agree with this as much, I think it should be kept as it is now, so the mapper can choose between leaving it in the diff name or in the map description. Rest is perfect to me.SapphireGhost wrote:
Guest difficulties must be labelled with the mapper's name and their level of difficulty.
Then why dont you put explanation for diff names to the information area on beatmap?
Example:
Blah2 collab >> Hard
What123 >> Insane
8000 >> extra
Why not? Because you care to lazy people that just click download and don't read the whole description?
Then add new rule. For every custom diff names that considered as unknownable names for some players, a mapper should add some description to information area for sake of normal / newbie / original players on top of the description, and no spoiler thing.
Like https://osu.ppy.sh/b/260349
One collab normal diff considered as hard on star rating..
The mapper put some description for the diff to inform the players that the diff was normal
If this is still unallowed, i more like to prefer this way:
Whispering > Easy
Talking > Normal
Screaming/Yell > Hard
Blahblah etc etc
As long as it was recognized to other normal players / gamers
But not using specific names such an anime character, specific thing on some games element
Sorry for bad english.
Example:
Blah2 collab >> Hard
What123 >> Insane
8000 >> extra
Why not? Because you care to lazy people that just click download and don't read the whole description?
Then add new rule. For every custom diff names that considered as unknownable names for some players, a mapper should add some description to information area for sake of normal / newbie / original players on top of the description, and no spoiler thing.
Like https://osu.ppy.sh/b/260349
One collab normal diff considered as hard on star rating..
The mapper put some description for the diff to inform the players that the diff was normal
If this is still unallowed, i more like to prefer this way:
Whispering > Easy
Talking > Normal
Screaming/Yell > Hard
Blahblah etc etc
As long as it was recognized to other normal players / gamers
But not using specific names such an anime character, specific thing on some games element
Sorry for bad english.
I would bring up use common sense, but I would assume people would say that they won't agree.
I agree with the original post, on the basis of common sense like raging bull just said. It seems like the arguments against it are assuming that people will try and abuse this for no reason other than the fact that they "technically" can. That sort of illogical screwing with the system is what the modding and ranking process is for.
Removing the ability for guest difficulties to name differently I think defeats the purpose of the rule change altogether, since this seems to be mainly geared towards the unique difficulty names that only pop up at the insane level, like 0108, Skystar, Rin, and so on.
also
Removing the ability for guest difficulties to name differently I think defeats the purpose of the rule change altogether, since this seems to be mainly geared towards the unique difficulty names that only pop up at the insane level, like 0108, Skystar, Rin, and so on.
also
whoops..sorry XDSapphireGhost wrote:
Difficulty spread naming such as "Blue / Red / White" is still unacceptable
I support this.
In fact, since the 2 old rules have been removed (no-more-than-3-Insane-diff rule and no-more-than-8-diff rule), there are many more maps that have various Insane (or Extra) diff. So allowing custom diff names on the highest diffs will make sense.
btw I think the following diff names should be allowed (I am not sure if they are rankable now)
In fact, since the 2 old rules have been removed (no-more-than-3-Insane-diff rule and no-more-than-8-diff rule), there are many more maps that have various Insane (or Extra) diff. So allowing custom diff names on the highest diffs will make sense.
btw I think the following diff names should be allowed (I am not sure if they are rankable now)
Case 1. [o0o] [o1o] [o2o] [o3o] <- one of my favourite diffname sets!
Case 2. [Easy] [Easy^2] [Easy^3] [Easy^4] <- Obvious enough and nice!
Case 3. [orz] [boring] [relaxing] [xxx](e.g. DaRRi MIx / Kirby Mix / Remix / 0108 Style / NTR(rin) / Skystar / ... )
I'm not a fan (anymore) of custom diff names, but if this is going to be a thing, I'd restrict it to only Insane (and higher) , so the change is uniform, not because giving it a special treatment, this way any player would relate a non-common name only with an Insane difficulty. Allowing it to Hard diffs will end in a mess. And about restricting the custom name to the mapper is silly imo, as Easy>A's Normal>Hard>B's Insane>Custom Name>C's Extra, just looks inconsistent and unprofessional in some way. Either you allow custom for guests, or none at all.
I honestly find orz unfitting compared to the rest of the Spread. But.. it's a single case. However as long the Name spread makes sense and fits together - I find it's a extreme mess if you decide to call your Difficulties as Easy > Medium > Hyper > Crazy because it's a mix of various Name sets which looks extremly stupid and nonsense - the examples which 384059043 has named can be used well.384059043 wrote:
Case 3. [orz] [boring] [relaxing] [xxx](e.g. DaRRi MIx / Kirby Mix / Remix / 0108 Style / NTR(rin) / Skystar / ... )
It's an issue by the Star Rating that things like these happen. In the normal case, the own Insane/Expert Difficulty would be set as the last Difficulty by the creator to shown it as the toughest challenge. This of course doesn't goes to every Mapset but I guess you understand what I want to say.DakeDekaane wrote:
And about restricting the custom name to the mapper is silly imo, as Easy>A's Normal>Hard>B's Insane>Custom Name>C's Extra, just looks inconsistent and unprofessional in some way. Either you allow custom for guests, or none at all.
I think difficulties should be divied by 6part
Easy Normal Hard Insane Extra
I think Insane and Other could be divide from Hard by improve star rating system,And it mostly 5 stars,We can only make them move havier instead of change star rating.
Easy Normal Hard Insane should what it should named,but Extra could be named freely.
Because who can play Extra must be a experenced player.
Same as Oni.
Easy Normal Hard Insane Extra
I think Insane and Other could be divide from Hard by improve star rating system,And it mostly 5 stars,We can only make them move havier instead of change star rating.
Easy Normal Hard Insane should what it should named,but Extra could be named freely.
Because who can play Extra must be a experenced player.
Same as Oni.
Topic Starter
Okay, let's try revising again with the new feedback.
A difficulty's name must indicate its level of difficulty, with the exception of the hardest level of difficulty in the set. The mapper's hardest difficulty and guest difficulties of a similar level may use custom difficulty names. Mapsets with a complete set of custom difficulty names that can be understood by the player are also acceptable. Marathon maps with a single difficulty are allowed free naming.
So now Easy / Normal / Hard / Special / RLC is acceptable, and the two specially named difficulties are assumed to be Insane/Extra level. This allows guest difficulties to also use custom names without confusing the player.?
The mapper appears! Good song choice and map though.captin1 wrote:
whoops..sorry XDSapphireGhost wrote:
Difficulty spread naming such as "Blue / Red / White" is still unacceptable
Isn't that just the same as
?
?
Topic Starter
Is this an artistic statement or might I be missing something?those wrote:
Isn't that just the same as
?
Edit: It's both.
My stance on difficulty names is that if you do this I'll kill you:
Anime Girl 1
Anime Girl 2
Anime Girl 3
Anime Girl 4
Anime Girl 5
That's about it, really. I keep it simple.
Anime Girl 1
Anime Girl 2
Anime Girl 3
Anime Girl 4
Anime Girl 5
That's about it, really. I keep it simple.
it is the same as just
Can we clarify this statement a bit? "can be understood by the player" is quite ambiguous.SapphireGhost wrote:
Mapsets with a complete set of custom difficulty names that can be understood by the player are also acceptable.
I'm fine with the principle behind the current proposal though.
Doesn't this also allow mapsets such as Easy / Normal / Hard / Rin / RLC / Skystar / 0108 / Nogard / Lesjuh / Nold? I thought that's what we were trying to avoid.SapphireGhost wrote:
So now Easy / Normal / Hard / Special / RLC is acceptable, and the two specially named difficulties are assumed to be Insane/Extra level. This allows guest difficulties to also use custom names without confusing the player.
My thoughts exactly.Blue Dragon wrote:
Doesn't this also allow mapsets such as Easy / Normal / Hard / Rin / RLC / Skystar / 0108 / Nogard / Lesjuh / Nold? I thought that's what we were trying to avoid.SapphireGhost wrote:
So now Easy / Normal / Hard / Special / RLC is acceptable, and the two specially named difficulties are assumed to be Insane/Extra level. This allows guest difficulties to also use custom names without confusing the player.
I'd restrict it to one difficulty, whether it's the mapper's or a GDSapphireGhost wrote:
Okay, let's try revising again with the new feedback.A difficulty's name must indicate its level of difficulty, with the exception of the hardest level of difficulty in the set. The mapper's hardest difficulty and guest difficulties of a similar level may use custom difficulty names. Mapsets with a complete set of custom difficulty names that can be understood by the player are also acceptable. Marathon maps with a single difficulty are allowed free naming.So now Easy / Normal / Hard / Special / RLC is acceptable, and the two specially named difficulties are assumed to be Insane/Extra level. This allows guest difficulties to also use custom names without confusing the player.
tbh who can always tell exactly which of the Insane diffs are harder and should be marked with harder names?Blue Dragon wrote:
Doesn't this also allow mapsets such as Easy / Normal / Hard / Rin / RLC / Skystar / 0108 / Nogard / Lesjuh / Nold? I thought that's what we were trying to avoid.SapphireGhost wrote:
So now Easy / Normal / Hard / Special / RLC is acceptable, and the two specially named difficulties are assumed to be Insane/Extra level. This allows guest difficulties to also use custom names without confusing the player.
I'm supporting the OP.
Why should this be not allowed, though? I think it looks a lot better than Easy / Normal / Hard / Rin's Insane / RLC's Insane / Skystar's Insane / 0108's Insane / Nogard's Insane / Lesjuh's Insane / Nold's Insane mapset, which is just as confusing. The rule only allows special naming for the hardest level, so anyone can easily tell that the special name means the hardest difficulty level, with different mappers mapping them. And by removing the repetitive "Insane" or "Extra" in the difficulty name, the difficulty names looks a lot cleaner and easier to read.Blue Dragon wrote:
Doesn't this also allow mapsets such as Easy / Normal / Hard / Rin / RLC / Skystar / 0108 / Nogard / Lesjuh / Nold? I thought that's what we were trying to avoid.SapphireGhost wrote:
So now Easy / Normal / Hard / Special / RLC is acceptable, and the two specially named difficulties are assumed to be Insane/Extra level. This allows guest difficulties to also use custom names without confusing the player.
Topic Starter
It looks like the biggest difference of opinion is between excepting the mapper's hardest difficulty or the hardest level of difficulty in the set. Personally, I agree with Loli -[Koinuri]'s reasoning and I'm open to Blue Dragon/UnderminE providing more reasons as to why they want to disallow it. To try to clarify on Kytoxid's point I revised it again:
February 26, 2014 Edit: Since the tentative deadline has been reached, the rule will be set to go into the Ranking Criteria in about a week should no groundbreaking counterarguments arise. For the time being, difficulty naming that follows this pending rule should be deemed as acceptable. Lastly and as always, everything is up for discussion again once the new star system is implemented and its accuracy can be determined.
A difficulty's name must indicate its level of difficulty, with the exception of the hardest level of difficulty in a set. The mapper's hardest difficulty and guest difficulties of a similar level may use custom difficulty names. Mapsets may also use a complete set of custom difficulty names that clearly indicate their level of difficulty to the player. Marathon maps with a single difficulty may use free naming.
February 26, 2014 Edit: Since the tentative deadline has been reached, the rule will be set to go into the Ranking Criteria in about a week should no groundbreaking counterarguments arise. For the time being, difficulty naming that follows this pending rule should be deemed as acceptable. Lastly and as always, everything is up for discussion again once the new star system is implemented and its accuracy can be determined.
I don't really have any groundbreaking arguments against it, I just thought that these mapsets were exactly the reason that peppy said the rule had to be changed in the first place. 
Although I do agree with this, has anyone notified peppy about this?
Kodora
Should be finalized already, isn't it?SapphireGhost wrote:
February 26, 2014 Edit: Since the tentative deadline has been reached, the rule will be set to go into the Ranking Criteria in about a week should no groundbreaking counterarguments arise. For the time being, difficulty naming that follows this pending rule should be deemed as acceptable. Lastly and as always, everything is up for discussion again once the new star system is implemented and its accuracy can be determined.
dkun wrote:
has anyone notified peppy about this?
I will personally unrank anything which does not follow my specifications.
No.
No.
Seriously? Not even able to discuss about something that might *help* the community for once?
Topic Starter
Apologies for having to post in a locked thread, but regardless of the final decision something needs to be added to the Ranking Criteria about which difficulty names are acceptable and which aren't. This post is a good guideline but isn't completely clear. An Easy / Normal / Hard / Special set isn't addressed, and one can argue that the average human player can understand what degree of difficulty each one is. Looking through this thread of human players, most can agree that they can understand this kind of naming. With the new star system coming together, it is even clearer to players which difficulties are harder than others.
The rule proposed in this thread is mostly based off of the reasoning in peppy's post, and tries to clarify what isn't clear. Mappers have a right to understand what is expected of them, and having an unclear rule will only encourage discrepancies in what is allowed and what isn't.
to peppy: From looking at your open letter to woc, I understand that you feel strongly about your opinion and like to do things differently, but I think this rule or a modified version can be established and allow you to keep what you want in this game and still keep osu! enjoyable for its users. Thanks for considering.
The rule proposed in this thread is mostly based off of the reasoning in peppy's post, and tries to clarify what isn't clear. Mappers have a right to understand what is expected of them, and having an unclear rule will only encourage discrepancies in what is allowed and what isn't.
to peppy: From looking at your open letter to woc, I understand that you feel strongly about your opinion and like to do things differently, but I think this rule or a modified version can be established and allow you to keep what you want in this game and still keep osu! enjoyable for its users. Thanks for considering.
Okay then here's my only compromise: You can name the highest difficulty something tastefully different from the rest under the following conditions:
It can't be a username, or anything related to a username.
The other difficulties should make sense in an increasing scale way, as previously discussed.
My goal here is to avoid the difficulty name becoming a way of determining the mapper. This is an unintended use and I will never stand for it.
It can't be a username, or anything related to a username.
The other difficulties should make sense in an increasing scale way, as previously discussed.
My goal here is to avoid the difficulty name becoming a way of determining the mapper. This is an unintended use and I will never stand for it.
Fair compromise, peppy. I'll be amending this into the rules shortly.
EDIT: Thanks to SapphireGhost for this!
EDIT: Thanks to SapphireGhost for this!
A difficulty's name must indicate its level of difficulty, with the exception of the hardest level of difficulty in a set. The mapset's hardest difficulty may use an appropriate custom difficulty name, unrelated to a username. Mapsets may also use a complete set of custom difficulty names that clearly indicate their level of difficulty to the player. Marathon maps with a single difficulty may use free naming.
Any restrictions for naming marathons (approval)? As in if they have to be named "Marathon" and not something like "Extra Stage" "Death" or "WHO"S AFRAID OF THE ASDF". If we are only allowed to name them "Marathon" then it might be a good idea to amend that into the rules as well.
EDIT: opps just saw that the proposed rule actually has approval naming included. Would be great to have everything resolved as far as naming goes.
EDIT: opps just saw that the proposed rule actually has approval naming included. Would be great to have everything resolved as far as naming goes.
as long we don't have things like http://osu.ppy.sh/b/18919 it sounds okay.
Marathons have to have that name to bypass the 24mb archive size limit, don't they, so that should be one thing - about shorter ones, I don't really know; it's not like there were tons of them to begin with?
Finally a good rule as a change of pace.
I was discussing this in #kroean... and got some interesting questions.
What if the mapper's username is related to a difficulty? for example, Fast, Death, etc.
Will they be able to use their username as a diff name?
If not, wouldn't that be unfair because other people get to use 'Fast' or 'Death' as their diff name but they don't?
What if the mapper's username is related to a difficulty? for example, Fast, Death, etc.
Will they be able to use their username as a diff name?
If not, wouldn't that be unfair because other people get to use 'Fast' or 'Death' as their diff name but they don't?
"what if Lunatic becomes a mapper"No Dap wrote:
I was discussing this in #kroean... and got some interesting questions.
What if the mapper's username is related to a difficulty? for example, Fast, Death, etc.
Will they be able to use their username as a diff name?
If not, wouldn't that be unfair because other people get to use 'Fast' or 'Death' as their diff name but they don't?
233
Groumiezi
"what if Lunatic becomes a fan a bemani and a mapper"
Lunatic's Lunatic
No.
Luna's Lunatic
Yes.
Why you pointing to username instead touhou theme?
well good
Lunatic's Lunatic
No.
Luna's Lunatic
Yes.
Why you pointing to username instead touhou theme?
well good
Use your common sense
I doubt it gets troublesome if the user "Lunatic" calls hid hardest difficulty "Lunatic".
There is also the user "Hard". Don't worry about that.
I doubt it gets troublesome if the user "Lunatic" calls hid hardest difficulty "Lunatic".
There is also the user "Hard". Don't worry about that.
So I could name a difficulty "Demented" if a song is called "Demented Cupcakes"? Sorry for the dumb question.
the answer can literally be found in peppy's post last pageColdTooth wrote:
So I could name a difficulty "Demented" if a song is called "Demented Cupcakes"? Sorry for the dumb question.
yes it is allowed, if it is the hardest diff in the mapsetpeppy wrote:
Okay then here's my only compromise: You can name the highest difficulty something tastefully different from the rest under the following conditions:
It can't be a username, or anything related to a username.
The other difficulties should make sense in an increasing scale way, as previously discussed.
My goal here is to avoid the difficulty name becoming a way of determining the mapper. This is an unintended use and I will never stand for it.