Ctb calculation methods

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Topic Starter
Kitokofox
So, I ended up sharing this to Tom94. I want to see everyone's honest and unbiased opinions.

Kitokofox wrote:

Catch The Beat calculation methods

Catch The Beat is different in multiple ways, by how jumps work and how streams work, mostly. Playing on a 2D plane is a lot diffrent from standard osu!, along with the predefined movement speeds of the catcher. Thus, skill based calculations based on the limitations of Ryuuta among other things must be taken in account for.

There are some main factors which determine how difficult a map is for Catch The Beat:
Map Settings This goes back to the basics.
- Approach rate: This should be documented in difficulty by the actual drop rate of the fruits. This also gives AR10 the much needed skill requirement it actually calls for.
- Fruit Size: This is pretty obvious. The smaller the fruits, the harder they are to catch accurately. Skill requirement is based on the field in which you can actually catch the fruit, rather than the size itself.
- Overall Difficulty: I don't know how this is handled in the map, but as far as I know it only affects the HP loss when missing. I don't think that applies too much to skill, but for players who can just barely pass a song, this would come into play.
- HP Drain Rate: Same as above, only comes into play for those barely making a map.
Beat Placement Factors based on the placement of sliders and circles themselves
- Movement: How much the catcher needs to move to catch the fruits. In stream maps like Marisa Stole the Precious Thing, this would become classified as less difficult since you don't have to click and simply inch the catcher, where in the system used for standard, it would be classified as difficult otherwise.
- Jumpiness: This is the general distance between beats, based on how fast the catcher must move. This also applied to sliders and their slider ticks. This also heightens more based on the general theta of jumps in a row (especially hyperdashes in a row) What I mean by theta of jumps in a row, as in a map with periodic jumps is probably more difficult than one with one part of it having multiple in a row (This sort of compares and contrasts between kinds of jumps and what kind of skill and perseverance is required to acquire a good score) Also, generally, faster hyperdashes are harder to chain off of, e.g. Can't Defeat Airman!.
- Speed: This is how fast the catcher needs to move around in succession. This would rate maps like val0108's Talent Shredder or With A Dance Number as high skill examples for this sector, mainly because of how fast the catcher needs to switch one direction to another and how fast of fingers the player needs.
- Long jumps: Originally pixel jumps, these are jumps that are enough for the catcher to reach with the new hyperdash system, but still require precision placement to catch, as well as timing. An example can be seen in Wild Eyes [JAMES DIFFICULTY!!!] As it has long but viable jumps.
Mode Specifics and Other Stuff
- Mode Specific Maps: Don't need to be buffed. They are probably already difficult as it is with the algorithm that's in place. Plus, it was set this way to entice players to play those maps. This pp system focuses on the player's skill, and tries to measure the skill needed for each beatmap, so making bonuses of that sort is incorrect to ranking..
- Fruits before and after spinners: The time before spinners and after spinners doesn't need to be checked because of how bananas aren't necessary to a full combo.
- Accuracy: In general, accuracy is easier to come by in Catch The Beat, and as such, changes may be made accordingly.
Yukiteru Amano
You should probably edit the "overall difficulty" part :o
OD changes spinners, I'm no expert but OD doesn't change drain, HP does.
eldnl

Yukiteru Amano wrote:

You should probably edit the "overall difficulty" part :o
OD changes spinners, I'm no expert but OD doesn't change drain, HP does.
OD doesn't affect on any way.
Drafura
OD only affects maximum score. Spinner patterns are affected by the number of sliders afaik.
Seph

Kitokofox wrote:

The smaller the fruits, the harder they are to catch accurately.
This doesn't work 100% of the time There are maps that are actually hard with big fruits disregarding the AR as well.
Topic Starter
Kitokofox

Seph wrote:

Kitokofox wrote:

The smaller the fruits, the harder they are to catch accurately.
This doesn't work 100% of the time There are maps that are actually hard with big fruits disregarding the AR as well.
That's one of the many factors outlined in a map. Difficulty for fruit size only increases much when fruits get smaller and smaller.
Seph
No they don't? It still depends on the patterns executed on the map, whatever CS it is.
VelperK
Low CS is only harder than High CS when the map is clustered with fruits all over your screen (because we can't detect appropiately how to move the ryuuta in order to catch such weird patterns), if not and it's readable enough like the map you shared then it's easier.
eldnl
It is always harder, play that map with a small CS and it will be ...
VelperK
If you can make less misses with Easy here than with none mods then I'll accept your point

http://osu.ppy.sh/b/35015
Topic Starter
Kitokofox
Ok, look.

Circle Size is a difficulty factor, it itself.

Big circles = easier to get, small circles = smaller to get.

The main factor is, between the easier circles (Like CS0-CS3) high rank players like you aren't going to notice a difference in their difficulty, because you've all conquered that difficulty hurdle. It'll still be a slight difficulty factor for newer players. That's why trying to grade the difficulty of circle size by catch-ability WORKS, it's just too minute of a difficulty difference for players like you to notice in a lot of circumstances.

If this pertains to the ability to see speed fruits at a slow AR, that's a combination of AR and CS, which you did not mention beforehand. EZ reduces difficulty to minimum on two variations, there's no excuse for it to not reduce the difficulty of a map. I seen some people get used to EZ and even do better with it than before. I see some people use EZ on Airman.

But, yes I understand how it becomes confusing in some cases. Just use a different modifier, or go to the topic which talks about changing the EZ modifier.
VelperK
i was just saying that there are exceptions to that, but generally big fruits are easier to get
eldnl

VelperK wrote:

If you can make less misses with Easy here than with none mods then I'll accept your point

http://osu.ppy.sh/b/35015
it is harder because of the approach rate, idiot.
VelperK
less AR = easier according to general understanding right?

so if less ar + less cs can't make such maps easier what can then?

also don't be rude because i've not insulted you, and i won't because that's falling in your level.
Yukiteru Amano
Discussing minor stuff like this won't get you anywhere since, we all think different.
eldnl

VelperK wrote:

less AR = easier according to general understanding right?

so if less ar + less cs can't make such maps easier what can then?

also don't be rude because i've not insulted you, and i won't because that's falling in your level.
tranquilo viejo, si te tratara como trato a la gente normalmente entonces te mueres D:


On topic: less ar in a jumpy map is harder, that's your example, less ar in an easy diff it's easier.
VelperK
confusing as hell but i think you're still getting it wrong

i'm just relating my point to kito's op argument that: "more ar = harder and less cs = easier". just saying that this isn't always true because applying some "easy" modifiers to specific maps can actually make them harder and not easier as you would expect.

nevertheless what he says is generally correct: less ar & less cs is actually easier in most maps if used accordingly to the ammount of fruits and the time between each one
eldnl
why are we discussing then ha
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