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Mirror Mod and Near poetic reasons implementation is a must.

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This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +957
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Soaprman
Hard Rock's increase of other difficulty factors is a big part of what makes it unattractive for this. Not everyone wants the whole bundle!

As for the "maps meant to be like that" argument, we've already got a far more damaging mod in the form of osu!mania's Random mod.
Heinzen
So, if Hard-rock module is unatractive to this, you are basically saying that you want something that makes the game easier and more convenient. Ok, make it a <1.0x mod then.
Negri_sk
Starru n Supportu ~ if lower score multiplier ofc
Soaprman

Heinzen wrote:

So, if Hard-rock module is unatractive to this, you are basically saying that you want something that makes the game easier and more convenient. Ok, make it a <1.0x mod then.
This isn't a step down in difficulty. It's a step to the side. It is exactly the same map, but flipped. There is no reason this should be anything but x1.0.

I should also note that this is a usability request. It's about comfort. It's akin to a left-handed person asking for some lefty scissors. Though I support it also because it sounds fun.
PyaKura

Soaprman wrote:

Hard Rock's increase of other difficulty factors is a big part of what makes it unattractive for this. Not everyone wants the whole bundle!

As for the "maps meant to be like that" argument, we've already got a far more damaging mod in the form of osu!mania's Random mod.
Unranked mod, solely meant to practice very unusual patterns. HR is not ranked in mania either.

I'd love to see this implemented for o!m as well, as an unranked mod, obviously.
Topic Starter
Raiku
The feedback here is great, I'm starting to see how practical this mod can be even if it was implemented x0.00 :)
Ekaru
Back when I mapped, I always intended for patterns to be played a certain way using the right hand.

So what happens when somebody uses their left hand to aim? Why, certain things that I intended to be natural come out as awkward. Flicks of the wrist become withdrawing motions, inward motions become outward motions, and so on. I wanted the player to move their mouse or pen in a specific way, not to a specific location. In order for the map to play to the left-handed players the way I intended it to play then you would have to flip the map from left-to-right.

So naturally, I support a mod that does just that. Yes, my maps sucked but that's besides the point.
Toran

Raiku wrote:

(wont somebody PLEASE think of the lefties!)
Finally some thought about us lefties o/
Rinnou Kouriri
Support!
Luffy-Kun
This is a fantastic idea. I wish this can be implemented soon.. I need this
-Soba-
I have never felt like I had more trouble with any pattern based off the direction it's going in, but support anyway! :3
TheVileOne
This adds another pointless mod to the game. That's my compelling argument not to have this.

Looks like my opinion is the minority.
silmarilen
i dont see a reason for this mod either other than an unranked mod. you're basically looking for a way around practicing.
being able to play patterns both ways is also a skill. at best it would be similar to spunout.
Reyvateil
Just as a quick thought, even if it makes one part easier, what of the rest of the map since some notes that were placed in easy spots for the play might be put into awkward spots after flipping? I say most of the maps will fall into this specific case, very few will turn actually harder or easier than they already are.

But I would support this even as unranked, this way I can at least play online without counting as a ranked play.
Yarissa
It can be used to avoid practice but it can likewise be used for practicing. I am indifferent to the mod but if it is implemented I agree that it should be unranked.

Neutral standpoint. If the mod could have more practical uses outside of the OP's argument or could have another difficulty factor added (such as hitting your cursor on the opposite side of the screen that the circles appear on) then I would consider supporting
Topic Starter
Raiku
agree agree agree, this can be added as an unranked mod purely for the fun aspect that we all need, and ill reiterate on another point: its not just a way around practice, but a form of practice itself.
TheVileOne
I wouldn't try and pull the practice card. peppy doesn't want a practice mode.
nyrox
Too much controversy for 1.0x score mod, reduced score mod or unranked is the only options I think.
D33d
Honestly, this would be a non-issue if mappers took a cue from iNiS style. The entire point of mirroring patterns is that the map is fair for both righties and lefties. Ouendan/EBA did this and osu!stream does this, because touch-based devices make it equally likely that either hand is used.

The case for not worrying about hand fairness in osu! is the fact that, even with natural lefties, the mouse is still on the right side. This is fine, but then the lefties are still stuck. A universal lefty/righty option could be an interesting addition to the game, since we probably aren't going to see frequent copypaste becoming popular any time soon. We have a lot of maps which are rotated slightly, in order to favour right-handed mouse usage by complementing the arc of the player's forearm. I like the fact that somebody's actually considering the accessibility of maps, as this kind of thinking can help novices, who won't necessarily commit to a game which makes them struggle.

If all else fails, go into the editor, hit ctrl+A and then hit ctrl+H to flip the whole map horizontally. This obviously won't be useful when playing for ranks, but it'll work just fine when playing for fun.
Topic Starter
Raiku
good call
Soner Wolf
I could even see how helpful this would be for taiko. It would really give everyone a tool to help iron out pattern recognition.
Heinzen

Soaprman wrote:

Heinzen wrote:

So, if Hard-rock module is unatractive to this, you are basically saying that you want something that makes the game easier and more convenient. Ok, make it a <1.0x mod then.
This isn't a step down in difficulty. It's a step to the side. It is exactly the same map, but flipped. There is no reason this should be anything but x1.0.

I should also note that this is a usability request. It's about comfort. It's akin to a left-handed person asking for some lefty scissors. Though I support it also because it sounds fun.


As I said, as lewa said. If you can't do things from one side to the other, flipping a map makes it convenient and easier. You won't have to step out of your confort zone and learn new things and deal with new challenges.

This mod is for lazy people.

Again, supporting if Unranked or <1.00x
El Capitan
Fantastic idea. Support! \o/
Soaprman

Heinzen wrote:

If you can't do things from one side to the other, flipping a map makes it convenient and easier.
What's easier for some will be harder for others.

Also, fun activity: when modding maps or even when editing your own maps, keep an eye out for long periods of clockwise or counterclockwise movement. You might spot some subconscious preference for one over the other! (I've actually flipped parts of my maps before because of this)
Topic Starter
Raiku
heinzen i back that
D33d

Soaprman wrote:

Heinzen wrote:

If you can't do things from one side to the other, flipping a map makes it convenient and easier.
What's easier for some will be harder for others.

Also, fun activity: when modding maps or even when editing your own maps, keep an eye out for long periods of clockwise or counterclockwise movement.
This is excellent advice, which addresses a fundamental error in a lot of maps. Even if nothing's copypasted, a map can still feel balanced by considering directional changes. That's the first step towards negating the need for this thread, but people will keep making this kind of mistake and the BAT probably won't care about it as much. If I'm wrong in that assumption, then even better.
Karuta-_old_1
After reading a bunch of argument involving the lazy, lefties and so.

I decided to support this

I am a right hander so I don't have any occassions where I need mirror So flipping the map doesn't really help much if I played maps from different beatmappers and thus I don't think it really gives people an advantage

Although it might add more competition if the rate is above 1.0, but I am not sure about that since people would use it as if it's a hidden mod just to score more (which could be easier in a way)

Plus flipping the map does help you know the beatmap better, like someone said it's just another play style(correct me if I'm wrong)
I know HR does the job, but most won't even be able to finish the map with it. since it's harder to hit and keep the health going.
Cozzzy
Yes please :!:

I'm not a leftie, but another example of usage: There are so many beatmaps I can't play without HR. Not because of low AR (I get this on some AR10 maps too), but just because I've developed bad habits from playing them so much that I anticipate certain parts of the map and can't hit them at all because of this - but the HR flip fixes this for me. This would also fix loads of mania problems~
BasedGod
Can somebody explain to me what a cyclone is?
PyaKura

Cozzzy wrote:

Yes please :!:

I'm not a leftie, but another example of usage: There are so many beatmaps I can't play without HR. Not because of low AR (I get this on some AR10 maps too), but just because I've developed bad habits from playing them so much that I anticipate certain parts of the map and can't hit them at all because of this - but the HR flip fixes this for me. This would also fix loads of mania problems~
Not sure what you mean about mania problems since it doesn't really matter whether you're leftie or rightie... the only case where I'd see this flip mod interesting would be on BMS charts, but they are all converts and aren't official osu!mania maps.
quaternary
Most of this is for practice, right? Editor - Ctrl+A - Ctrl+H - Test. Why does need to be ranked?
Weed

Kyou-kun wrote:

any advantage you could get from this is from either placebo or just being bad

stop gay
casmith789
Oppose.

No reason for this at all. I have problems with some patterns and not with others, and this is surely the same for everyone. No reason to go changing the beatmap just because some people find it hard.
RaneFire

Full Tablet wrote:

This would make the game a bit more fair IMO. For example: Right bottom corner to left upper corner jumps are bit more harder than left bottom corner to right upper corner jumps, and if I was a left-handed, the situation would probably be reversed (so some maps would be a bit easier for right-handed people than left-handed people, or vice-versa).
And make the current maps which are "harder" for right-handed people easier by letting them mirror them. It doesn't make it fair, it just makes it easier for everyone, if that was your point. Therefore it does indirectly decrease difficulty, if anything at all, because you can choose when to use it.

While this would be interesting to practice with...

TheVileOne wrote:

I wouldn't try and pull the practice card. peppy doesn't want a practice mode.
...it would have to be ranked.

But if there was the possibility that it could make certain patterns easier at no cost of HP drain, CS, OD, AR... like Hard Rock does... then it should not receive 1.0x, but rather be treated similar to the SpunOut mod at 0.90x, making it impossible to compete with.

Stop trying to disguise the idea from a technical perspective saying it's the exact same map. It's not. I have huge problems with clockwise squares and would love to flip them.

Kyou-kun wrote:

...or just being bad
If players are bad, they would benefit. Thank you for pointing this out.
lolcubes

thelewa wrote:

the same goes for losing focus with the more you play a map, you can even get better at that with practice

you can fix everything you pointed out with practice
^ this.

Also I spin CCW and I have no problems with CW patterns. <_<

Maps are mapped how the mappers want them. This would interfere with their work before it could possibly help someone play the game. I am against this. Respect mappers please.

I really don't like when people ask for dumb-down mods because the game is supposed to be hard. ._.
Halogen-
It's interesting that this argument is going on here. These arguments happened a few years ago on FlashFlashRevolution back when mirror was implemented over there, and the arguments are literally the same as they were back then (and with good reason). I can fully empathize with all of the responses pertaining to the beatmap creators and their works being manipulated, and that is a very fair point -- I happen to be a StepMania/FlashFlashRevolution chart artist and argued indifferently when this argument came up over there.

Those who are creating the content crafted their content the way they did for a reason. Players could argue that the relative chart composition isn't altered, and that is true -- a para-diddle on the left hand (LDLL) is still a para-diddle on the right hand (RURR), a one-handed trill on the left hand (LDLD) is still a one-handed trill on the right hand (URUR), and so on and so forth. For mostly anything involving a performance and music (video game or physical instrument playing), people typically do whatever they can to optimize the way they perform to get the best result.

With that being said, mirror does decrease the difficulty of a given map because it either a.) creates bias on a particular hand/side of the screen where they excel at or b.) deviates patterns to promote different muscle memory as a player might have issues with a similar section due to "over-practicing"; essentially, a player has a pattern locked in that happens to be incorrect.

Either way, if this isn't added: players can easily go out of their way to emulate a mirror mod.
Primula_old
Temp solution: Flip your monitor and your tablet mapping.
Halogen-

Primula wrote:

Temp solution: Flip your monitor and your tablet mapping.
Precisely my point. osu!mania players can accomplish similar results by changing their scroll direction and reversing their key mappings.
Ekaru

Primula wrote:

Temp solution: Flip your monitor and your tablet mapping.
And a correct skin of course.

...I 100% support this now that it has been pointed out that desktop users with flippable monitors can do this while those of us using laptops can't. ._.

EDIT: Wait, wait... Maybe I can. Checking.

EDIT2: Okay, I can. I 100% support this now that it can already be done, just in an inconvenient way.
PyaKura

Halogen- wrote:

Primula wrote:

Temp solution: Flip your monitor and your tablet mapping.
Precisely my point. osu!mania players can accomplish similar results by changing their scroll direction and reversing their key mappings.
Or CTRL + A then CTRL + H in the editor...
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