Title, basically. Also, follow up question: what do you think about the rumors of Windows 12 going subscription based?

There's going to be a Windows 2 now...?

wait theres gonna be windows 12 SUBSCRIPTION ONLY????

I think that Windows is reasonably standard to where you have to work with it, but I much prefer Linux. This is for several reasons:

1. Linux is much faster - even Ubuntu boots in half the time a fresh Windows 10 install does.
   For people with PC specs like mine, (they were a lot slower at the time) it is much better to install Linux to get the most out of their computer.
2. Linux is open-source with limited proprietary software, if any. This means a user can edit the code if they so wish and know how to do it - for example, to add a feature they want and remove ones they don't. It also means the user can check what the OS is doing.
3. Linux is (mostly) not for profit. Home operating systems like Linux Mint and Ubuntu are not designed to get money from the user. By contrast, Windows has all manner of tracking that, if you do not turn it off on install, carries out targeted advertising at the OS level.
   (Seriously, if you are a Windows user, open your settings right now, go into Privacy, and review everything under General and Diagnostics and Feedback.
4. Linux is customizable, meaning that someone who has never touched a computer before has a good distro to use, as well as an elite power user.

Points 2 and 3 are why I use Linux, and you should too - they represent the same values osu! does: Transparency, no profit motivation, and freedom (to customize).

The only reason I stopped using Linux Mint is due to some problem with the graphics drivers. It feels much worse due to the fix.

[-Omni-] wrote:

wait theres gonna be windows 12 SUBSCRIPTION ONLY????

If Microsoft actually do this, I will seriously consider uninstalling Windows entirely. That is the opposite of digital freedom.

Winnyace wrote:

Title, basically. Also, follow up question: what do you think about the rumors of Windows 12 going subscription based?

i WILL 100% move to linux if that happens.

let's just hope that rumor turns out to be false

about linux, I personally prefeer windows over linux, and while it's true that it's a sometimes faster, open-source, non-profit OS, the fact that it's also an open-source, non-profit OS does end up harming it somewhat

as you said, you need to work on windows, the speed of linux can be reduced if you consider you got to run wine and stuff. So you aren't really getting any faster

and while it is open source, that brings up problems too, appliactions in windows are made for windows 10/11 and that's it. If you have a problem, you google "problem windows 10 fix" and you get 20 videos, however, with linux, there are tons of distro, so when you have a problem or just dont know how to do something, it's a lot harder to find answers. It has also happened to me that I have a problem with a specific app that may not be the most popular, I google the problem, i'm using ubuntu and the answer is for debian. So now I need to look how to do all the stuff that they say but on my distro, which is still more steps than what I have to do in windows

and now, while there is software made for linux, we got to keep in mind who is currently using windows, which are mainly computer science people, github people. So yeah, the program may do it's function correctly, but out of all of those software devs, there barely are any art people, so a lot of the software lack a good UI, just compare microsoft word to libreoffice. And again, when you look into more specialized software, like that one time I was trying to clone my hard drive in linux, the best way to clone a hard drive in linux is just basically pure terminal, however, with windows or macOS it's SO much easier and intuitive. There are many of these examples where linux just ends up being worse than windows

if there was like an unified linux distro that was the industry standard, yeah linux would be better, however, that just isn't the case and I doubt it's ever going to happen. And the true reality that we're living currently is closer to the things i've been describing, which in many ways are just worse than in windows

microsoft does have a monopoly on the OS market sure, that is just true. However, this monopoly doesn't only just extend to them having the industry standard and most of the money, but it's just such a big advantage that it's even hard to everyoen to compete even in quality, yeah of course them taking personal data and stuff is bad. But they can probably make windows 12 subscription based and get away with it, and this is less a OS issue and more an issue with capitalism in general

Patatitta wrote:

let's just hope that rumor turns out to be false

about linux, I personally prefeer windows over linux, and while it's true that it's a sometimes faster, open-source, non-profit OS, the fact that it's also an open-source, non-profit OS does end up harming it somewhat

as you said, you need to work on windows, the speed of linux can be reduced if you consider you got to run wine and stuff. So you aren't really getting any faster

and while it is open source, that brings up problems too, appliactions in windows are made for windows 10/11 and that's it. If you have a problem, you google "problem windows 10 fix" and you get 20 videos, however, with linux, there are tons of distro, so when you have a problem or just dont know how to do something, it's a lot harder to find answers. It has also happened to me that I have a problem with a specific app that may not be the most popular, I google the problem, i'm using ubuntu and the answer is for debian. So now I need to look how to do all the stuff that they say but on my distro, which is still more steps than what I have to do in windows

and now, while there is software made for linux, we got to keep in mind who is currently using windows, which are mainly computer science people, github people. So yeah, the program may do it's function correctly, but out of all of those software devs, there barely are any art people, so a lot of the software lack a good UI, just compare microsoft word to libreoffice. And again, when you look into more specialized software, like that one time I was trying to clone my hard drive in linux, the best way to clone a hard drive in linux is just basically pure terminal, however, with windows or macOS it's SO much easier and intuitive. There are many of these examples where linux just ends up being worse than windows

if there was like an unified linux distro that was the industry standard, yeah linux would be better, however, that just isn't the case and I doubt it's ever going to happen. And the true reality that we're living currently is closer to the things i've been describing, which in many ways are just worse than in windows

microsoft does have a monopoly on the OS market sure, that is just true. However, this monopoly doesn't only just extend to them having the industry standard and most of the money, but it's just such a big advantage that it's even hard to everyoen to compete even in quality, yeah of course them taking personal data and stuff is bad. But they can probably make windows 12 subscription based and get away with it, and this is less a OS issue and more an issue with capitalism in general

gah im still on windows 10. ive never tried linux but this js making me wanna switch but i dont know

Before I begin, I'm going to say I'm biased here, since I use Linux almost full time. I do use Windows 11 from time to time because I'm lazy.

Patatitta wrote:

and while it is open source, that brings up problems too, appliactions in windows are made for windows 10/11 and that's it. If you have a problem, you google "problem windows 10 fix" and you get 20 videos, however, with linux, there are tons of distro, so when you have a problem or just dont know how to do something, it's a lot harder to find answers. It has also happened to me that I have a problem with a specific app that may not be the most popular, I google the problem, i'm using ubuntu and the answer is for debian. So now I need to look how to do all the stuff that they say but on my distro, which is still more steps than what I have to do in windows

Ubuntu is based on Debian, so any solution that works on Debian has a 99% chance of working on Ubuntu as well. Even on a different distro, the chance of something working on your used distro is 80% I would say. Distros don't matter. Very few actually change something significant under the hood and all use the Linux kernel, with the same set of packages, so solutions are interchangeable between distros. This, however, requires time to learn, which brings me to the next paragraph that you wrote that interests me.

Patatitta wrote:

and now, while there is software made for linux, we got to keep in mind who is currently using windows, which are mainly computer science people, github people. So yeah, the program may do it's function correctly, but out of all of those software devs, there barely are any art people, so a lot of the software lack a good UI, just compare microsoft word to libreoffice. And again, when you look into more specialized software, like that one time I was trying to clone my hard drive in linux, the best way to clone a hard drive in linux is just basically pure terminal, however, with windows or macOS it's SO much easier and intuitive. There are many of these examples where linux just ends up being worse than windows

I will tackle in different points, even though you put it all in one paragraph.


Windows's primary user base is individuals who quite literally open up a web browser and do all of their work within one. It's now masked by making applications of such services available, but at the heart of them are nothing more than web services, apps that you can interact with and use from within a browser. Every single modern browser, from Firefox to Microsoft Edge is available on Linux fully. It is my believe that many people very likely will never notice that the OSes have changed if you don't tell them and make Linux look like Windows, which is possible. Linux's primary user base is programmers, but there are a lot of other people using it too, most notably gamers. The user base is more accustomed to computers, however. That's the only difference.

UI and UX are subjective. LibreOffice can be made to use an UI similar to Microsoft Office if you really wanted. It's right in the app too. There also exists a web version of Microsoft Office that, I think, does everything most people would need out of Word, Excel, etc. I'm biased here because I use it, but most apps on Linux actually have a good UI, besides creative applications, though even Adobe doesn't have the most user-friendly UIs for their creative suites.

Tutorials for Linux always show the terminal way of doing it, alongside the GUI way if there is a program that automates things. Why? Because it's easier for the writer of the tutorial to actually help you with a terminal command than it is give you 20 steps to do something with a GUI. I can understand that the terminal is intimidating, but at this point, I honestly heard this point so much that I believe it to be a stupid justification for not even trying to understand it a bit. The terminal provides the easiest and fastest way of performing an action on entire computer. True, it is often cryptic and requires you learn a bit of how a command works, but it isn't, at all, someone with average intelligence and a bit of time can't do. Google here is very handy. Tutorials often explain the commands, if not bit by bit, at least overall. There are also websites that automatically show you what the command does.Yes, I agree that it isn't the greatest experience and it does require a bit of your time to do a bit of research, but calling it hard is a bit of stretch too.

Patatitta wrote:

as you said, you need to work on windows, the speed of linux can be reduced if you consider you got to run wine and stuff. So you aren't really getting any faster

It very heavily depends on your hardware. For games, Wine's biggest use case, on AMD, the performance between games very slightly above Windows in some titles. It is within margin of error. You very likely won't notice it on a mid to high end system. On a low end system, yes, the story changes.
There's also the fact that the work can be entirely done on Linux too. I've done my high school project assignments on Linux and then presented on a Windows laptop without an issue. From C++ programs to PowerPoint presentations. If the work in question can be done in any software of your choosing, you can easily do it on Linux 99% of the time. It's only a matter of familiarity with the tools available on Linux as compared to Windows.

Patatitta wrote:

if there was like an unified linux distro that was the industry standard, yeah linux would be better, however, that just isn't the case and I doubt it's ever going to happen. And the true reality that we're living currently is closer to the things i've been describing, which in many ways are just worse than in windows

It is impossible now for Linux to get unified. It doesn't need to be because Linux is already the industry standard for servers and embedded cases where an OS needs to be used. It isn't an industry standard for desktop usage. There are efforts done to make it so developers won't need to accommodate for so many variations and just release once and forget about it. It will take time, because only recently have people actually tried to make the Linux desktop a really cool experience. In my opinion, the experience is good. It will take a bit of learn how some things work, but you needed to time to learn how Windows worked too, didn't you?

[-Omni-] wrote:

wait theres gonna be windows 12 SUBSCRIPTION ONLY????

THIS. IS. RIDICULOUS.

just to make clear, I HAVE used linux, I have used linux for years in fact. I know how to use the terminal, shit, I did almost everything with the linux terminal, however, that doesn't mean that a terminal is better. GUI is always way more intuitive, the most if you're doing things that you're not the most used to

it's true that debian and ubuntu and stuff at the end of the ady it's just linux, however, the way that linux is presented and some very small steps do change, so if I wanted to watch a video tutorial on how to fix something, it's just better for it to just so happen to be from your exact version of your OS, which is very common for windows but not so much common with linux most of the time.

I'm mainly talking about my perspective here, so while a lot of people can just use firefox for everything, I personally cant, I need to use photoshop, and gimp just does not cut it. I need to clone my hard drive, but I don't know how to do it, the GUI that there is a lot worse than the one windows has, and the video tutorials are worse than if it was in windows

the GUI, while it's true that for example adobe's UI suck, it's more common to at least be some effort and in fact, an UI, for example, for specific tasks, there are programs that do require you to use the terminal in linux. It's a reason of why people for example may want to use windows server, even if it has a worse performance than a linux one, it's just easier to use, and while yeah, full terminal, no UI, no background processes will make the program run faster and better, there is a human element here, and I think it's in a lot of cases sacrificing that performance for ease of use. And even if you know how to use the terminal in general, there will ALWAYS be scenarios where you must do something new, and it's 90% of the time easier to do something new in GUI than pure terminal

+ I do just think the average windows UI look better than the linux UI, but this is just personal preference IG

about the wine stuff, I guess it's just my pc build that really struggles with translation I guess, I did see worse performance on linux than on windows.

about the last thing, I know that linux cant get unified, I in fact did mention that it was not going to happen, however, I think it's a fact that it's harder to learn linux than to learn windows, windows was designed for people that haven't even touched a computer in their life to be able to work completely fine, however linux is made for tech-savy people, so that means that the skill floor is higher in this case

npc_BeaniCraft wrote:

Winnyace wrote:

Title, basically. Also, follow up question: what do you think about the rumors of Windows 12 going subscription based?

i WILL 100% move to linux if that happens.

same

Weeeeell, it's intuitive and usable. Just ensure to disable certain services because dang.

Anaxii wrote:

[-Omni-] wrote:

wait theres gonna be windows 12 SUBSCRIPTION ONLY????

THIS. IS. RIDICULOUS.

FR. LIKE WHY THO?? ITS A NEW VERSION OF A OPERATING SYSTEM. WHY MAKE IT A SUBSCRIPTION… LIKE OVERTIME OLDER VERSIONS ARE LIKE NOT ABLE TO WORK AND THEN EITHER YOU WILL HAVE TO PAY THE SUBSCRIPTION OR NOT USE WINDOWS ANYMORE.

[-Omni-] wrote:

wait theres gonna be windows 12 SUBSCRIPTION ONLY????

That's not profitable as Windows would lose its massive user base and its value. Probably AI features among many others will be only available for "premium users". I only hope they don't lock existing features but that was to be expected if you were to enable server intensive features over the operating system

i hate windows

I prefer Windows over Linux, no matter how much people tell me one may be better than the other I just don't care. I may be semi-techy but not to the point of Linux. Plus at this point I am so used to the shit the Windows may suffer from that its an easy fix for me. On the rumor, it won't happen for general use. Would cause to much of a shitstorm and make specific investors unhappy with the negative attention. It's probably gonna end up like the side OS's for Windows 10 had. Thouht that's just me ig

lostsilver wrote:

i hate windows

You use linux?

Anaxii wrote:

lostsilver wrote:

i hate windows

You use linux?

no
mac
i use windows on my laptop, but it's a bit laggy and i don't like the ui

wait last i checked the rumor turned out to be false. the fuck?

Zelzatter Zero wrote:

wait last i checked the rumor turned out to be false. the fuck?

Seems its still false, but le misinformation ig

of course topic about specifically windows ends up getting instantly derailed into talking about linux

clayton wrote:

of course topic about specifically windows ends up getting instantly derailed into talking about linux

Linux users trying not to go full feral talking about Windows in any form

It's alright, at least if you customise it to your own liking

because of how ever-so-present Microsoft is, it is already the 'default' in many people's computing experience. Recent criticism on changes in windows 10 and 11 is really what drives me to didn't like how Windows is shipped in default.

• The start menu of windows 11 is too big. Since I just type whatever I needed, I revert it back to win 7 style menu with third-party programme

• Privacy issues. Well, it what makes tons of people making debloating script, so I also use it

• Inconsistent UI element mashing from win7 control panel, win10 style win security, and win11 settings menu. Well then how about youu rectify it instead?

• like the legacy alt-tab menu? Want to disable UAC prompt? make your internet pings more efficiently? Feel free to regedit it with caution!

It's bearable to use windows for now. I use it because I have to run architectural and designing programmes that would be much painful on linux distros.

Windows 10 is resource-intensive but still somewhat usable. Windows 11, on the other habd, is downright stupidity. Shift + Right click for "advanced" dialogs in flie explorer? NAH. Not to mention the new Settings app in Win10/11 is very inferior to Control Panel. Also yhe lack of coherent theming. For me the last "good" Windows is Windows 7.

Patatitta wrote:

and while it is open source, that brings up problems too, appliactions in windows are made for windows 10/11 and that's it. If you have a problem, you google "problem windows 10 fix" and you get 20 videos, however, with linux, there are tons of distro, so when you have a problem or just dont know how to do something, it's a lot harder to find answers. It has also happened to me that I have a problem with a specific app that may not be the most popular, I google the problem, i'm using ubuntu and the answer is for debian. So now I need to look how to do all the stuff that they say but on my distro, which is still more steps than what I have to do in windows

and now, while there is software made for linux, we got to keep in mind who is currently using windows, which are mainly computer science people, github people. So yeah, the program may do it's function correctly, but out of all of those software devs, there barely are any art people, so a lot of the software lack a good UI, just compare microsoft word to libreoffice. And again, when you look into more specialized software, like that one time I was trying to clone my hard drive in linux, the best way to clone a hard drive in linux is just basically pure terminal, however, with windows or macOS it's SO much easier and intuitive. There are many of these examples where linux just ends up being worse than windows

1. Aside from package managers and some system components (most notably desktop environment, audio server and wayland support), linux distros have a coherent and interoperable command line instructions. sudo in arch would be the same as sudo in Ubuntu. Or Debian. Or CentOS etc. But due to the decentralised nature of linux, there's no unified GUI to do that so most guides prefers to use terminal. So solving problems becomes more like debugging codes which would turns many users away.

2. Yeah Gimp and Inkscape are inferior to their adobe counterparts ant the end of the day. But libreoffice suite is pretty usable imo. Reminds me of Office 2003 that I used to use as a kid.

Winnyace wrote:

what do you think about the rumors of Windows 12 going subscription based?

If I ain't migrated to linux by then, then time to sail the high seas I guess

Jangsoodlor wrote:

Windows 10 is resource-intensive but still somewhat usable. Windows 11, on the other habd, is downright stupidity. Shift + Right click for "advanced" dialogs in flie explorer? NAH. Not to mention the new Settings app in Win10/11 is very inferior to Control Panel. Also yhe lack of coherent theming. For me the last "good" Windows is Windows 7.

Patatitta wrote:

and while it is open source, that brings up problems too, appliactions in windows are made for windows 10/11 and that's it. If you have a problem, you google "problem windows 10 fix" and you get 20 videos, however, with linux, there are tons of distro, so when you have a problem or just dont know how to do something, it's a lot harder to find answers. It has also happened to me that I have a problem with a specific app that may not be the most popular, I google the problem, i'm using ubuntu and the answer is for debian. So now I need to look how to do all the stuff that they say but on my distro, which is still more steps than what I have to do in windows

and now, while there is software made for linux, we got to keep in mind who is currently using windows, which are mainly computer science people, github people. So yeah, the program may do it's function correctly, but out of all of those software devs, there barely are any art people, so a lot of the software lack a good UI, just compare microsoft word to libreoffice. And again, when you look into more specialized software, like that one time I was trying to clone my hard drive in linux, the best way to clone a hard drive in linux is just basically pure terminal, however, with windows or macOS it's SO much easier and intuitive. There are many of these examples where linux just ends up being worse than windows

1. Aside from package managers and some system components (most notably desktop environment, audio server and wayland support), linux distros have a coherent and interoperable command line instructions. sudo in arch would be the same as sudo in Ubuntu. Or Debian. Or CentOS etc. But due to the decentralised nature of linux, there's no unified GUI to do that so most guides prefers to use terminal. So solving problems becomes more like debugging codes which would turns many users away.

2. Yeah Gimp and Inkscape are inferior to their adobe counterparts ant the end of the day. But libreoffice suite is pretty usable imo. Reminds me of Office 2003 that I used to use as a kid.

Winnyace wrote:

what do you think about the rumors of Windows 12 going subscription based?

If I ain't migrated to linux by then, then time to sail the high seas I guess

There this project which aim to bring back the conveniece https://rectify11.net/

Nanofranne wrote:

Jangsoodlor wrote:

Windows 10 is resource-intensive but still somewhat usable. Windows 11, on the other habd, is downright stupidity. Shift + Right click for "advanced" dialogs in flie explorer? NAH. Not to mention the new Settings app in Win10/11 is very inferior to Control Panel. Also yhe lack of coherent theming. For me the last "good" Windows is Windows 7.

Patatitta wrote:

and while it is open source, that brings up problems too, appliactions in windows are made for windows 10/11 and that's it. If you have a problem, you google "problem windows 10 fix" and you get 20 videos, however, with linux, there are tons of distro, so when you have a problem or just dont know how to do something, it's a lot harder to find answers. It has also happened to me that I have a problem with a specific app that may not be the most popular, I google the problem, i'm using ubuntu and the answer is for debian. So now I need to look how to do all the stuff that they say but on my distro, which is still more steps than what I have to do in windows

and now, while there is software made for linux, we got to keep in mind who is currently using windows, which are mainly computer science people, github people. So yeah, the program may do it's function correctly, but out of all of those software devs, there barely are any art people, so a lot of the software lack a good UI, just compare microsoft word to libreoffice. And again, when you look into more specialized software, like that one time I was trying to clone my hard drive in linux, the best way to clone a hard drive in linux is just basically pure terminal, however, with windows or macOS it's SO much easier and intuitive. There are many of these examples where linux just ends up being worse than windows

1. Aside from package managers and some system components (most notably desktop environment, audio server and wayland support), linux distros have a coherent and interoperable command line instructions. sudo in arch would be the same as sudo in Ubuntu. Or Debian. Or CentOS etc. But due to the decentralised nature of linux, there's no unified GUI to do that so most guides prefers to use terminal. So solving problems becomes more like debugging codes which would turns many users away.

2. Yeah Gimp and Inkscape are inferior to their adobe counterparts ant the end of the day. But libreoffice suite is pretty usable imo. Reminds me of Office 2003 that I used to use as a kid.

Winnyace wrote:

what do you think about the rumors of Windows 12 going subscription based?

If I ain't migrated to linux by then, then time to sail the high seas I guess

There this project which aim to bring back the conveniece https://rectify11.net/

Nah. Windows 11 UI is stupid, not user-friendly and ugly. I mean, a lot of wasted space imo. I'm still on Win10 btw.

Patatitta wrote:

Winnyace wrote:

Before I begin, I'm going to say I'm biased here, since I use Linux almost full time. I do use Windows 11 from time to time because I'm lazy.

Patatitta wrote:

and while it is open source, that brings up problems too, appliactions in windows are made for windows 10/11 and that's it. If you have a problem, you google "problem windows 10 fix" and you get 20 videos, however, with linux, there are tons of distro, so when you have a problem or just dont know how to do something, it's a lot harder to find answers. It has also happened to me that I have a problem with a specific app that may not be the most popular, I google the problem, i'm using ubuntu and the answer is for debian. So now I need to look how to do all the stuff that they say but on my distro, which is still more steps than what I have to do in windows

Ubuntu is based on Debian, so any solution that works on Debian has a 99% chance of working on Ubuntu as well. Even on a different distro, the chance of something working on your used distro is 80% I would say. Distros don't matter. Very few actually change something significant under the hood and all use the Linux kernel, with the same set of packages, so solutions are interchangeable between distros. This, however, requires time to learn, which brings me to the next paragraph that you wrote that interests me.

Patatitta wrote:

and now, while there is software made for linux, we got to keep in mind who is currently using windows, which are mainly computer science people, github people. So yeah, the program may do it's function correctly, but out of all of those software devs, there barely are any art people, so a lot of the software lack a good UI, just compare microsoft word to libreoffice. And again, when you look into more specialized software, like that one time I was trying to clone my hard drive in linux, the best way to clone a hard drive in linux is just basically pure terminal, however, with windows or macOS it's SO much easier and intuitive. There are many of these examples where linux just ends up being worse than windows

I will tackle in different points, even though you put it all in one paragraph.


Windows's primary user base is individuals who quite literally open up a web browser and do all of their work within one. It's now masked by making applications of such services available, but at the heart of them are nothing more than web services, apps that you can interact with and use from within a browser. Every single modern browser, from Firefox to Microsoft Edge is available on Linux fully. It is my believe that many people very likely will never notice that the OSes have changed if you don't tell them and make Linux look like Windows, which is possible. Linux's primary user base is programmers, but there are a lot of other people using it too, most notably gamers. The user base is more accustomed to computers, however. That's the only difference.

UI and UX are subjective. LibreOffice can be made to use an UI similar to Microsoft Office if you really wanted. It's right in the app too. There also exists a web version of Microsoft Office that, I think, does everything most people would need out of Word, Excel, etc. I'm biased here because I use it, but most apps on Linux actually have a good UI, besides creative applications, though even Adobe doesn't have the most user-friendly UIs for their creative suites.

Tutorials for Linux always show the terminal way of doing it, alongside the GUI way if there is a program that automates things. Why? Because it's easier for the writer of the tutorial to actually help you with a terminal command than it is give you 20 steps to do something with a GUI. I can understand that the terminal is intimidating, but at this point, I honestly heard this point so much that I believe it to be a stupid justification for not even trying to understand it a bit. The terminal provides the easiest and fastest way of performing an action on entire computer. True, it is often cryptic and requires you learn a bit of how a command works, but it isn't, at all, someone with average intelligence and a bit of time can't do. Google here is very handy. Tutorials often explain the commands, if not bit by bit, at least overall. There are also websites that automatically show you what the command does.Yes, I agree that it isn't the greatest experience and it does require a bit of your time to do a bit of research, but calling it hard is a bit of stretch too.

Patatitta wrote:

as you said, you need to work on windows, the speed of linux can be reduced if you consider you got to run wine and stuff. So you aren't really getting any faster

It very heavily depends on your hardware. For games, Wine's biggest use case, on AMD, the performance between games very slightly above Windows in some titles. It is within margin of error. You very likely won't notice it on a mid to high end system. On a low end system, yes, the story changes.
There's also the fact that the work can be entirely done on Linux too. I've done my high school project assignments on Linux and then presented on a Windows laptop without an issue. From C++ programs to PowerPoint presentations. If the work in question can be done in any software of your choosing, you can easily do it on Linux 99% of the time. It's only a matter of familiarity with the tools available on Linux as compared to Windows.

Patatitta wrote:

if there was like an unified linux distro that was the industry standard, yeah linux would be better, however, that just isn't the case and I doubt it's ever going to happen. And the true reality that we're living currently is closer to the things i've been describing, which in many ways are just worse than in windows

It is impossible now for Linux to get unified. It doesn't need to be because Linux is already the industry standard for servers and embedded cases where an OS needs to be used. It isn't an industry standard for desktop usage. There are efforts done to make it so developers won't need to accommodate for so many variations and just release once and forget about it. It will take time, because only recently have people actually tried to make the Linux desktop a really cool experience. In my opinion, the experience is good. It will take a bit of learn how some things work, but you needed to time to learn how Windows worked too, didn't you?

just to make clear, I HAVE used linux, I have used linux for years in fact. I know how to use the terminal, shit, I did almost everything with the linux terminal, however, that doesn't mean that a terminal is better. GUI is always way more intuitive, the most if you're doing things that you're not the most used to

it's true that debian and ubuntu and stuff at the end of the ady it's just linux, however, the way that linux is presented and some very small steps do change, so if I wanted to watch a video tutorial on how to fix something, it's just better for it to just so happen to be from your exact version of your OS, which is very common for windows but not so much common with linux most of the time.

I'm mainly talking about my perspective here, so while a lot of people can just use firefox for everything, I personally cant, I need to use photoshop, and gimp just does not cut it. I need to clone my hard drive, but I don't know how to do it, the GUI that there is a lot worse than the one windows has, and the video tutorials are worse than if it was in windows

the GUI, while it's true that for example adobe's UI suck, it's more common to at least be some effort and in fact, an UI, for example, for specific tasks, there are programs that do require you to use the terminal in linux. It's a reason of why people for example may want to use windows server, even if it has a worse performance than a linux one, it's just easier to use, and while yeah, full terminal, no UI, no background processes will make the program run faster and better, there is a human element here, and I think it's in a lot of cases sacrificing that performance for ease of use. And even if you know how to use the terminal in general, there will ALWAYS be scenarios where you must do something new, and it's 90% of the time easier to do something new in GUI than pure terminal

+ I do just think the average windows UI look better than the linux UI, but this is just personal preference IG

about the wine stuff, I guess it's just my pc build that really struggles with translation I guess, I did see worse performance on linux than on windows.

about the last thing, I know that linux cant get unified, I in fact did mention that it was not going to happen, however, I think it's a fact that it's harder to learn linux than to learn windows, windows was designed for people that haven't even touched a computer in their life to be able to work completely fine, however linux is made for tech-savy people, so that means that the skill floor is higher in this case

I haven't made the case that the terminal is more intuitive, unless I choose the wrong words that implied that. I don't think it is intuitive, especially for a beginner user, but calling it hard is, in my eyes an over-exaggeration You both state that you have used Linux for years, yet you still don't know how to clone a disk drive that's literally a command you can find with a simply find by googling how to do it? To me, it just completely invalidates what you said about your experience in the OS.

I do get your point behind it, however. There are things that are annoyingly difficult to do in Linux compared to Windows. It's all a matter of preference, like how you like Windows's UI compared to... I suppose GNOME, since that's the most popular desktop environment for Linux, and I do understand that some people just prefer Windows. I just don't like when people bring the most stupid justifications for it. Photoshop vs. GIMP, for example: Some people like Photoshop, some like GIMP. Both piece of software work differently and comparing them is a bit like comparing apples to oranges. Everyone has a preference and that's not only more than fine, it is a perfect justification for not liking Linux.

Linux, in my opinion, is made for two extremes of people: the complete newbie, since distros like Linux Mint really make using the computer for a complete newbie more secure and in my opinion better than on Windows, and seasoned veteran. Online, especially in the circles I run around, people are smack in the middle of these two extremes, so for them, using Linux is a challenge since they're used to Windows, most likely. Ultimately, both OSes have advantages and disadvantages and it's a matter of choice and of use case.

Zelzatter Zero wrote:

wait last i checked the rumor turned out to be false. the fuck?

I think? I kinda recently learnt that they may go in that direction. I doubt myself they would actually go to a subscription model, but I thought it was an interesting topic.

clayton wrote:

of course topic about specifically windows ends up getting instantly derailed into talking about linux

The internet for you.

dude I didn't know how to clone a hard drive when I STARTED using linux, I learned it after a while, you cant just go on and "invalidate" all my years of linux usage just because I was a beginner once

Patatitta wrote:

Winnyace wrote:

Patatitta wrote:

Winnyace wrote:

Before I begin, I'm going to say I'm biased here, since I use Linux almost full time. I do use Windows 11 from time to time because I'm lazy.

Patatitta wrote:

and while it is open source, that brings up problems too, appliactions in windows are made for windows 10/11 and that's it. If you have a problem, you google "problem windows 10 fix" and you get 20 videos, however, with linux, there are tons of distro, so when you have a problem or just dont know how to do something, it's a lot harder to find answers. It has also happened to me that I have a problem with a specific app that may not be the most popular, I google the problem, i'm using ubuntu and the answer is for debian. So now I need to look how to do all the stuff that they say but on my distro, which is still more steps than what I have to do in windows

Ubuntu is based on Debian, so any solution that works on Debian has a 99% chance of working on Ubuntu as well. Even on a different distro, the chance of something working on your used distro is 80% I would say. Distros don't matter. Very few actually change something significant under the hood and all use the Linux kernel, with the same set of packages, so solutions are interchangeable between distros. This, however, requires time to learn, which brings me to the next paragraph that you wrote that interests me.

Patatitta wrote:

and now, while there is software made for linux, we got to keep in mind who is currently using windows, which are mainly computer science people, github people. So yeah, the program may do it's function correctly, but out of all of those software devs, there barely are any art people, so a lot of the software lack a good UI, just compare microsoft word to libreoffice. And again, when you look into more specialized software, like that one time I was trying to clone my hard drive in linux, the best way to clone a hard drive in linux is just basically pure terminal, however, with windows or macOS it's SO much easier and intuitive. There are many of these examples where linux just ends up being worse than windows

I will tackle in different points, even though you put it all in one paragraph.


Windows's primary user base is individuals who quite literally open up a web browser and do all of their work within one. It's now masked by making applications of such services available, but at the heart of them are nothing more than web services, apps that you can interact with and use from within a browser. Every single modern browser, from Firefox to Microsoft Edge is available on Linux fully. It is my believe that many people very likely will never notice that the OSes have changed if you don't tell them and make Linux look like Windows, which is possible. Linux's primary user base is programmers, but there are a lot of other people using it too, most notably gamers. The user base is more accustomed to computers, however. That's the only difference.

UI and UX are subjective. LibreOffice can be made to use an UI similar to Microsoft Office if you really wanted. It's right in the app too. There also exists a web version of Microsoft Office that, I think, does everything most people would need out of Word, Excel, etc. I'm biased here because I use it, but most apps on Linux actually have a good UI, besides creative applications, though even Adobe doesn't have the most user-friendly UIs for their creative suites.

Tutorials for Linux always show the terminal way of doing it, alongside the GUI way if there is a program that automates things. Why? Because it's easier for the writer of the tutorial to actually help you with a terminal command than it is give you 20 steps to do something with a GUI. I can understand that the terminal is intimidating, but at this point, I honestly heard this point so much that I believe it to be a stupid justification for not even trying to understand it a bit. The terminal provides the easiest and fastest way of performing an action on entire computer. True, it is often cryptic and requires you learn a bit of how a command works, but it isn't, at all, someone with average intelligence and a bit of time can't do. Google here is very handy. Tutorials often explain the commands, if not bit by bit, at least overall. There are also websites that automatically show you what the command does.Yes, I agree that it isn't the greatest experience and it does require a bit of your time to do a bit of research, but calling it hard is a bit of stretch too.

Patatitta wrote:

as you said, you need to work on windows, the speed of linux can be reduced if you consider you got to run wine and stuff. So you aren't really getting any faster

It very heavily depends on your hardware. For games, Wine's biggest use case, on AMD, the performance between games very slightly above Windows in some titles. It is within margin of error. You very likely won't notice it on a mid to high end system. On a low end system, yes, the story changes.
There's also the fact that the work can be entirely done on Linux too. I've done my high school project assignments on Linux and then presented on a Windows laptop without an issue. From C++ programs to PowerPoint presentations. If the work in question can be done in any software of your choosing, you can easily do it on Linux 99% of the time. It's only a matter of familiarity with the tools available on Linux as compared to Windows.

Patatitta wrote:

if there was like an unified linux distro that was the industry standard, yeah linux would be better, however, that just isn't the case and I doubt it's ever going to happen. And the true reality that we're living currently is closer to the things i've been describing, which in many ways are just worse than in windows

It is impossible now for Linux to get unified. It doesn't need to be because Linux is already the industry standard for servers and embedded cases where an OS needs to be used. It isn't an industry standard for desktop usage. There are efforts done to make it so developers won't need to accommodate for so many variations and just release once and forget about it. It will take time, because only recently have people actually tried to make the Linux desktop a really cool experience. In my opinion, the experience is good. It will take a bit of learn how some things work, but you needed to time to learn how Windows worked too, didn't you?

just to make clear, I HAVE used linux, I have used linux for years in fact. I know how to use the terminal, shit, I did almost everything with the linux terminal, however, that doesn't mean that a terminal is better. GUI is always way more intuitive, the most if you're doing things that you're not the most used to

it's true that debian and ubuntu and stuff at the end of the ady it's just linux, however, the way that linux is presented and some very small steps do change, so if I wanted to watch a video tutorial on how to fix something, it's just better for it to just so happen to be from your exact version of your OS, which is very common for windows but not so much common with linux most of the time.

I'm mainly talking about my perspective here, so while a lot of people can just use firefox for everything, I personally cant, I need to use photoshop, and gimp just does not cut it. I need to clone my hard drive, but I don't know how to do it, the GUI that there is a lot worse than the one windows has, and the video tutorials are worse than if it was in windows

the GUI, while it's true that for example adobe's UI suck, it's more common to at least be some effort and in fact, an UI, for example, for specific tasks, there are programs that do require you to use the terminal in linux. It's a reason of why people for example may want to use windows server, even if it has a worse performance than a linux one, it's just easier to use, and while yeah, full terminal, no UI, no background processes will make the program run faster and better, there is a human element here, and I think it's in a lot of cases sacrificing that performance for ease of use. And even if you know how to use the terminal in general, there will ALWAYS be scenarios where you must do something new, and it's 90% of the time easier to do something new in GUI than pure terminal

+ I do just think the average windows UI look better than the linux UI, but this is just personal preference IG

about the wine stuff, I guess it's just my pc build that really struggles with translation I guess, I did see worse performance on linux than on windows.

about the last thing, I know that linux cant get unified, I in fact did mention that it was not going to happen, however, I think it's a fact that it's harder to learn linux than to learn windows, windows was designed for people that haven't even touched a computer in their life to be able to work completely fine, however linux is made for tech-savy people, so that means that the skill floor is higher in this case

I haven't made the case that the terminal is more intuitive, unless I choose the wrong words that implied that. I don't think it is intuitive, especially for a beginner user, but calling it hard is, in my eyes an over-exaggeration You both state that you have used Linux for years, yet you still don't know how to clone a disk drive that's literally a command you can find with a simply find by googling how to do it? To me, it just completely invalidates what you said about your experience in the OS.

I do get your point behind it, however. There are things that are annoyingly difficult to do in Linux compared to Windows. It's all a matter of preference, like how you like Windows's UI compared to... I suppose GNOME, since that's the most popular desktop environment for Linux, and I do understand that some people just prefer Windows. I just don't like when people bring the most stupid justifications for it. Photoshop vs. GIMP, for example: Some people like Photoshop, some like GIMP. Both piece of software work differently and comparing them is a bit like comparing apples to oranges. Everyone has a preference and that's not only more than fine, it is a perfect justification for not liking Linux.

Linux, in my opinion, is made for two extremes of people: the complete newbie, since distros like Linux Mint really make using the computer for a complete newbie more secure and in my opinion better than on Windows, and seasoned veteran. Online, especially in the circles I run around, people are smack in the middle of these two extremes, so for them, using Linux is a challenge since they're used to Windows, most likely. Ultimately, both OSes have advantages and disadvantages and it's a matter of choice and of use case.

Zelzatter Zero wrote:

wait last i checked the rumor turned out to be false. the fuck?

I think? I kinda recently learnt that they may go in that direction. I doubt myself they would actually go to a subscription model, but I thought it was an interesting topic.

clayton wrote:

of course topic about specifically windows ends up getting instantly derailed into talking about linux

The internet for you.

dude I didn't know how to clone a hard drive when I STARTED using linux, I learned it after a while, you cant just go on and "invalidate" all my years of linux usage just because I was a beginner once

he can indeed invalidate your experience. It didn't sound as you were talking about the beggining but something that happened rather recently.

Also, Microsoft Office doesn't endure my latex formulas among other things. So it crashes a lot on me as I'm too advanced for that software. Libreoffice is more reliable even though it has many things to improve.

In the end all these discussions are always like this

you can even invalidate someone experience using anything in the first place, like, it's like saying "I had problems" and then someone going "no you didn't lol", what the fuck am I supposed to say to that even?

for more context, my main PC has always been windows, however, I also have a laptop for like school work and just using it in different situations, I do NOT use that laptop to game or anything, just school work and hosting minecraft servers. That laptop has almost always been linux, it was just recently I really moved to windows, and at the time, I was a lot less tech savy, I did not know what wine was (not really any normal person back then...) and I feel most of what I said holds up true

it's just, you couldn't use a lot of the best windows apps in linux, the alternatives were just not good. And when I actually had some more bit complicated stuff, it was overall harder to google a solution and perform it, since a lot of specialiced programs lacked GUI, and learning terminal when you're just a not very tech-savy teenager stressed that they have to finish their homework today is just an awful experience. I'm aware that you dont really need use terminal for most of the stuff today, however, in my last time of using linux (which was on a vn a year back), it was still advised to use terminal since it was just faster for certain stuff, and yeah, some apps still lacked GUI

on the contrary, windows was literally created for that like morons like me could work on it completely fine, and this holds up true. Everything was just easier to do

lostsilver wrote:

Anaxii wrote:

lostsilver wrote:

i hate windows

You use linux?

no
mac
i use windows on my laptop, but it's a bit laggy and i don't like the ui

Alright

I personally use windows everytime, but I have a mac that I use once every 6 months lol

Jangsoodlor wrote:

Nanofranne wrote:

Jangsoodlor wrote:

Windows 10 is resource-intensive but still somewhat usable. Windows 11, on the other habd, is downright stupidity. Shift + Right click for "advanced" dialogs in flie explorer? NAH. Not to mention the new Settings app in Win10/11 is very inferior to Control Panel. Also yhe lack of coherent theming. For me the last "good" Windows is Windows 7.

Patatitta wrote:

and while it is open source, that brings up problems too, appliactions in windows are made for windows 10/11 and that's it. If you have a problem, you google "problem windows 10 fix" and you get 20 videos, however, with linux, there are tons of distro, so when you have a problem or just dont know how to do something, it's a lot harder to find answers. It has also happened to me that I have a problem with a specific app that may not be the most popular, I google the problem, i'm using ubuntu and the answer is for debian. So now I need to look how to do all the stuff that they say but on my distro, which is still more steps than what I have to do in windows

and now, while there is software made for linux, we got to keep in mind who is currently using windows, which are mainly computer science people, github people. So yeah, the program may do it's function correctly, but out of all of those software devs, there barely are any art people, so a lot of the software lack a good UI, just compare microsoft word to libreoffice. And again, when you look into more specialized software, like that one time I was trying to clone my hard drive in linux, the best way to clone a hard drive in linux is just basically pure terminal, however, with windows or macOS it's SO much easier and intuitive. There are many of these examples where linux just ends up being worse than windows

1. Aside from package managers and some system components (most notably desktop environment, audio server and wayland support), linux distros have a coherent and interoperable command line instructions. sudo in arch would be the same as sudo in Ubuntu. Or Debian. Or CentOS etc. But due to the decentralised nature of linux, there's no unified GUI to do that so most guides prefers to use terminal. So solving problems becomes more like debugging codes which would turns many users away.

2. Yeah Gimp and Inkscape are inferior to their adobe counterparts ant the end of the day. But libreoffice suite is pretty usable imo. Reminds me of Office 2003 that I used to use as a kid.

Winnyace wrote:

what do you think about the rumors of Windows 12 going subscription based?

If I ain't migrated to linux by then, then time to sail the high seas I guess

There this project which aim to bring back the conveniece https://rectify11.net/

Nah. Windows 11 UI is stupid, not user-friendly and ugly. I mean, a lot of wasted space imo. I'm still on Win10 btw.

i plan to use win10 forever till i HAVE to switch to like win11 or future versions

[-Omni-] wrote:

Jangsoodlor wrote:

Nanofranne wrote:

Jangsoodlor wrote:

Windows 10 is resource-intensive but still somewhat usable. Windows 11, on the other habd, is downright stupidity. Shift + Right click for "advanced" dialogs in flie explorer? NAH. Not to mention the new Settings app in Win10/11 is very inferior to Control Panel. Also yhe lack of coherent theming. For me the last "good" Windows is Windows 7.

Patatitta wrote:

and while it is open source, that brings up problems too, appliactions in windows are made for windows 10/11 and that's it. If you have a problem, you google "problem windows 10 fix" and you get 20 videos, however, with linux, there are tons of distro, so when you have a problem or just dont know how to do something, it's a lot harder to find answers. It has also happened to me that I have a problem with a specific app that may not be the most popular, I google the problem, i'm using ubuntu and the answer is for debian. So now I need to look how to do all the stuff that they say but on my distro, which is still more steps than what I have to do in windows

and now, while there is software made for linux, we got to keep in mind who is currently using windows, which are mainly computer science people, github people. So yeah, the program may do it's function correctly, but out of all of those software devs, there barely are any art people, so a lot of the software lack a good UI, just compare microsoft word to libreoffice. And again, when you look into more specialized software, like that one time I was trying to clone my hard drive in linux, the best way to clone a hard drive in linux is just basically pure terminal, however, with windows or macOS it's SO much easier and intuitive. There are many of these examples where linux just ends up being worse than windows

1. Aside from package managers and some system components (most notably desktop environment, audio server and wayland support), linux distros have a coherent and interoperable command line instructions. sudo in arch would be the same as sudo in Ubuntu. Or Debian. Or CentOS etc. But due to the decentralised nature of linux, there's no unified GUI to do that so most guides prefers to use terminal. So solving problems becomes more like debugging codes which would turns many users away.

2. Yeah Gimp and Inkscape are inferior to their adobe counterparts ant the end of the day. But libreoffice suite is pretty usable imo. Reminds me of Office 2003 that I used to use as a kid.

Winnyace wrote:

what do you think about the rumors of Windows 12 going subscription based?

If I ain't migrated to linux by then, then time to sail the high seas I guess

There this project which aim to bring back the conveniece https://rectify11.net/

Nah. Windows 11 UI is stupid, not user-friendly and ugly. I mean, a lot of wasted space imo. I'm still on Win10 btw.

i plan to use win10 forever till i HAVE to switch to like win11 or future versions

I've heard that win11 wasn't compatible with a lot of games...

Anaxii wrote:

[-Omni-] wrote:

Jangsoodlor wrote:

Nanofranne wrote:

Jangsoodlor wrote:

Windows 10 is resource-intensive but still somewhat usable. Windows 11, on the other habd, is downright stupidity. Shift + Right click for "advanced" dialogs in flie explorer? NAH. Not to mention the new Settings app in Win10/11 is very inferior to Control Panel. Also yhe lack of coherent theming. For me the last "good" Windows is Windows 7.

Patatitta wrote:

and while it is open source, that brings up problems too, appliactions in windows are made for windows 10/11 and that's it. If you have a problem, you google "problem windows 10 fix" and you get 20 videos, however, with linux, there are tons of distro, so when you have a problem or just dont know how to do something, it's a lot harder to find answers. It has also happened to me that I have a problem with a specific app that may not be the most popular, I google the problem, i'm using ubuntu and the answer is for debian. So now I need to look how to do all the stuff that they say but on my distro, which is still more steps than what I have to do in windows

and now, while there is software made for linux, we got to keep in mind who is currently using windows, which are mainly computer science people, github people. So yeah, the program may do it's function correctly, but out of all of those software devs, there barely are any art people, so a lot of the software lack a good UI, just compare microsoft word to libreoffice. And again, when you look into more specialized software, like that one time I was trying to clone my hard drive in linux, the best way to clone a hard drive in linux is just basically pure terminal, however, with windows or macOS it's SO much easier and intuitive. There are many of these examples where linux just ends up being worse than windows

1. Aside from package managers and some system components (most notably desktop environment, audio server and wayland support), linux distros have a coherent and interoperable command line instructions. sudo in arch would be the same as sudo in Ubuntu. Or Debian. Or CentOS etc. But due to the decentralised nature of linux, there's no unified GUI to do that so most guides prefers to use terminal. So solving problems becomes more like debugging codes which would turns many users away.

2. Yeah Gimp and Inkscape are inferior to their adobe counterparts ant the end of the day. But libreoffice suite is pretty usable imo. Reminds me of Office 2003 that I used to use as a kid.

Winnyace wrote:

what do you think about the rumors of Windows 12 going subscription based?

If I ain't migrated to linux by then, then time to sail the high seas I guess

There this project which aim to bring back the conveniece https://rectify11.net/

Nah. Windows 11 UI is stupid, not user-friendly and ugly. I mean, a lot of wasted space imo. I'm still on Win10 btw.

i plan to use win10 forever till i HAVE to switch to like win11 or future versions

I've heard that win11 wasn't compatible with a lot of games...

ngl, windows 10 is the best version of looks i think

[-Omni-] wrote:

Anaxii wrote:

[-Omni-] wrote:

Jangsoodlor wrote:

Nanofranne wrote:

Jangsoodlor wrote:

Windows 10 is resource-intensive but still somewhat usable. Windows 11, on the other habd, is downright stupidity. Shift + Right click for "advanced" dialogs in flie explorer? NAH. Not to mention the new Settings app in Win10/11 is very inferior to Control Panel. Also yhe lack of coherent theming. For me the last "good" Windows is Windows 7.

Patatitta wrote:

and while it is open source, that brings up problems too, appliactions in windows are made for windows 10/11 and that's it. If you have a problem, you google "problem windows 10 fix" and you get 20 videos, however, with linux, there are tons of distro, so when you have a problem or just dont know how to do something, it's a lot harder to find answers. It has also happened to me that I have a problem with a specific app that may not be the most popular, I google the problem, i'm using ubuntu and the answer is for debian. So now I need to look how to do all the stuff that they say but on my distro, which is still more steps than what I have to do in windows

and now, while there is software made for linux, we got to keep in mind who is currently using windows, which are mainly computer science people, github people. So yeah, the program may do it's function correctly, but out of all of those software devs, there barely are any art people, so a lot of the software lack a good UI, just compare microsoft word to libreoffice. And again, when you look into more specialized software, like that one time I was trying to clone my hard drive in linux, the best way to clone a hard drive in linux is just basically pure terminal, however, with windows or macOS it's SO much easier and intuitive. There are many of these examples where linux just ends up being worse than windows

1. Aside from package managers and some system components (most notably desktop environment, audio server and wayland support), linux distros have a coherent and interoperable command line instructions. sudo in arch would be the same as sudo in Ubuntu. Or Debian. Or CentOS etc. But due to the decentralised nature of linux, there's no unified GUI to do that so most guides prefers to use terminal. So solving problems becomes more like debugging codes which would turns many users away.

2. Yeah Gimp and Inkscape are inferior to their adobe counterparts ant the end of the day. But libreoffice suite is pretty usable imo. Reminds me of Office 2003 that I used to use as a kid.

Winnyace wrote:

what do you think about the rumors of Windows 12 going subscription based?

If I ain't migrated to linux by then, then time to sail the high seas I guess

There this project which aim to bring back the conveniece https://rectify11.net/

Nah. Windows 11 UI is stupid, not user-friendly and ugly. I mean, a lot of wasted space imo. I'm still on Win10 btw.

i plan to use win10 forever till i HAVE to switch to like win11 or future versions

I've heard that win11 wasn't compatible with a lot of games...

ngl, windows 10 is the best version of looks i think

Windows 11 is by far the most optimized version, but Windows 10 is the version that everyone uses

Anaxii wrote:

[-Omni-] wrote:

Anaxii wrote:

[-Omni-] wrote:

Jangsoodlor wrote:

Nanofranne wrote:

Jangsoodlor wrote:

Windows 10 is resource-intensive but still somewhat usable. Windows 11, on the other habd, is downright stupidity. Shift + Right click for "advanced" dialogs in flie explorer? NAH. Not to mention the new Settings app in Win10/11 is very inferior to Control Panel. Also yhe lack of coherent theming. For me the last "good" Windows is Windows 7.

Patatitta wrote:

and while it is open source, that brings up problems too, appliactions in windows are made for windows 10/11 and that's it. If you have a problem, you google "problem windows 10 fix" and you get 20 videos, however, with linux, there are tons of distro, so when you have a problem or just dont know how to do something, it's a lot harder to find answers. It has also happened to me that I have a problem with a specific app that may not be the most popular, I google the problem, i'm using ubuntu and the answer is for debian. So now I need to look how to do all the stuff that they say but on my distro, which is still more steps than what I have to do in windows

and now, while there is software made for linux, we got to keep in mind who is currently using windows, which are mainly computer science people, github people. So yeah, the program may do it's function correctly, but out of all of those software devs, there barely are any art people, so a lot of the software lack a good UI, just compare microsoft word to libreoffice. And again, when you look into more specialized software, like that one time I was trying to clone my hard drive in linux, the best way to clone a hard drive in linux is just basically pure terminal, however, with windows or macOS it's SO much easier and intuitive. There are many of these examples where linux just ends up being worse than windows

1. Aside from package managers and some system components (most notably desktop environment, audio server and wayland support), linux distros have a coherent and interoperable command line instructions. sudo in arch would be the same as sudo in Ubuntu. Or Debian. Or CentOS etc. But due to the decentralised nature of linux, there's no unified GUI to do that so most guides prefers to use terminal. So solving problems becomes more like debugging codes which would turns many users away.

2. Yeah Gimp and Inkscape are inferior to their adobe counterparts ant the end of the day. But libreoffice suite is pretty usable imo. Reminds me of Office 2003 that I used to use as a kid.

Winnyace wrote:

what do you think about the rumors of Windows 12 going subscription based?

If I ain't migrated to linux by then, then time to sail the high seas I guess

There this project which aim to bring back the conveniece https://rectify11.net/

Nah. Windows 11 UI is stupid, not user-friendly and ugly. I mean, a lot of wasted space imo. I'm still on Win10 btw.

i plan to use win10 forever till i HAVE to switch to like win11 or future versions

I've heard that win11 wasn't compatible with a lot of games...

ngl, windows 10 is the best version of looks i think

Windows 11 is by far the most optimized version, but Windows 10 is the version that everyone uses

oooh. what even really are the differences and idk if i should really switch since i dont know any reasons to switch

[-Omni-] wrote:

Anaxii wrote:

[-Omni-] wrote:

Jangsoodlor wrote:

Nanofranne wrote:

Jangsoodlor wrote:

Windows 10 is resource-intensive but still somewhat usable. Windows 11, on the other habd, is downright stupidity. Shift + Right click for "advanced" dialogs in flie explorer? NAH. Not to mention the new Settings app in Win10/11 is very inferior to Control Panel. Also yhe lack of coherent theming. For me the last "good" Windows is Windows 7.

Patatitta wrote:

and while it is open source, that brings up problems too, appliactions in windows are made for windows 10/11 and that's it. If you have a problem, you google "problem windows 10 fix" and you get 20 videos, however, with linux, there are tons of distro, so when you have a problem or just dont know how to do something, it's a lot harder to find answers. It has also happened to me that I have a problem with a specific app that may not be the most popular, I google the problem, i'm using ubuntu and the answer is for debian. So now I need to look how to do all the stuff that they say but on my distro, which is still more steps than what I have to do in windows

and now, while there is software made for linux, we got to keep in mind who is currently using windows, which are mainly computer science people, github people. So yeah, the program may do it's function correctly, but out of all of those software devs, there barely are any art people, so a lot of the software lack a good UI, just compare microsoft word to libreoffice. And again, when you look into more specialized software, like that one time I was trying to clone my hard drive in linux, the best way to clone a hard drive in linux is just basically pure terminal, however, with windows or macOS it's SO much easier and intuitive. There are many of these examples where linux just ends up being worse than windows

1. Aside from package managers and some system components (most notably desktop environment, audio server and wayland support), linux distros have a coherent and interoperable command line instructions. sudo in arch would be the same as sudo in Ubuntu. Or Debian. Or CentOS etc. But due to the decentralised nature of linux, there's no unified GUI to do that so most guides prefers to use terminal. So solving problems becomes more like debugging codes which would turns many users away.

2. Yeah Gimp and Inkscape are inferior to their adobe counterparts ant the end of the day. But libreoffice suite is pretty usable imo. Reminds me of Office 2003 that I used to use as a kid.

Winnyace wrote:

what do you think about the rumors of Windows 12 going subscription based?

If I ain't migrated to linux by then, then time to sail the high seas I guess

There this project which aim to bring back the conveniece https://rectify11.net/

Nah. Windows 11 UI is stupid, not user-friendly and ugly. I mean, a lot of wasted space imo. I'm still on Win10 btw.

i plan to use win10 forever till i HAVE to switch to like win11 or future versions

I've heard that win11 wasn't compatible with a lot of games...

ngl, windows 10 is the best version of looks i think

You never experienced Windows 7 I guess. That was peak windows UI designing.

Jangsoodlor wrote:

[-Omni-] wrote:

Anaxii wrote:

[-Omni-] wrote:

Jangsoodlor wrote:

Nanofranne wrote:

Jangsoodlor wrote:

Windows 10 is resource-intensive but still somewhat usable. Windows 11, on the other habd, is downright stupidity. Shift + Right click for "advanced" dialogs in flie explorer? NAH. Not to mention the new Settings app in Win10/11 is very inferior to Control Panel. Also yhe lack of coherent theming. For me the last "good" Windows is Windows 7.

Patatitta wrote:

and while it is open source, that brings up problems too, appliactions in windows are made for windows 10/11 and that's it. If you have a problem, you google "problem windows 10 fix" and you get 20 videos, however, with linux, there are tons of distro, so when you have a problem or just dont know how to do something, it's a lot harder to find answers. It has also happened to me that I have a problem with a specific app that may not be the most popular, I google the problem, i'm using ubuntu and the answer is for debian. So now I need to look how to do all the stuff that they say but on my distro, which is still more steps than what I have to do in windows

and now, while there is software made for linux, we got to keep in mind who is currently using windows, which are mainly computer science people, github people. So yeah, the program may do it's function correctly, but out of all of those software devs, there barely are any art people, so a lot of the software lack a good UI, just compare microsoft word to libreoffice. And again, when you look into more specialized software, like that one time I was trying to clone my hard drive in linux, the best way to clone a hard drive in linux is just basically pure terminal, however, with windows or macOS it's SO much easier and intuitive. There are many of these examples where linux just ends up being worse than windows

1. Aside from package managers and some system components (most notably desktop environment, audio server and wayland support), linux distros have a coherent and interoperable command line instructions. sudo in arch would be the same as sudo in Ubuntu. Or Debian. Or CentOS etc. But due to the decentralised nature of linux, there's no unified GUI to do that so most guides prefers to use terminal. So solving problems becomes more like debugging codes which would turns many users away.

2. Yeah Gimp and Inkscape are inferior to their adobe counterparts ant the end of the day. But libreoffice suite is pretty usable imo. Reminds me of Office 2003 that I used to use as a kid.

Winnyace wrote:

what do you think about the rumors of Windows 12 going subscription based?

If I ain't migrated to linux by then, then time to sail the high seas I guess

There this project which aim to bring back the conveniece https://rectify11.net/

Nah. Windows 11 UI is stupid, not user-friendly and ugly. I mean, a lot of wasted space imo. I'm still on Win10 btw.

i plan to use win10 forever till i HAVE to switch to like win11 or future versions

I've heard that win11 wasn't compatible with a lot of games...

ngl, windows 10 is the best version of looks i think

You never experienced Windows 7 I guess. That was peak windows UI designing.

windows xp is best since you could make it look as awful as you wanted

[-Omni-] wrote:

Anaxii wrote:

[-Omni-] wrote:

Anaxii wrote:

[-Omni-] wrote:

Jangsoodlor wrote:

Nanofranne wrote:

Jangsoodlor wrote:

Windows 10 is resource-intensive but still somewhat usable. Windows 11, on the other habd, is downright stupidity. Shift + Right click for "advanced" dialogs in flie explorer? NAH. Not to mention the new Settings app in Win10/11 is very inferior to Control Panel. Also yhe lack of coherent theming. For me the last "good" Windows is Windows 7.

Patatitta wrote:

and while it is open source, that brings up problems too, appliactions in windows are made for windows 10/11 and that's it. If you have a problem, you google "problem windows 10 fix" and you get 20 videos, however, with linux, there are tons of distro, so when you have a problem or just dont know how to do something, it's a lot harder to find answers. It has also happened to me that I have a problem with a specific app that may not be the most popular, I google the problem, i'm using ubuntu and the answer is for debian. So now I need to look how to do all the stuff that they say but on my distro, which is still more steps than what I have to do in windows

and now, while there is software made for linux, we got to keep in mind who is currently using windows, which are mainly computer science people, github people. So yeah, the program may do it's function correctly, but out of all of those software devs, there barely are any art people, so a lot of the software lack a good UI, just compare microsoft word to libreoffice. And again, when you look into more specialized software, like that one time I was trying to clone my hard drive in linux, the best way to clone a hard drive in linux is just basically pure terminal, however, with windows or macOS it's SO much easier and intuitive. There are many of these examples where linux just ends up being worse than windows

1. Aside from package managers and some system components (most notably desktop environment, audio server and wayland support), linux distros have a coherent and interoperable command line instructions. sudo in arch would be the same as sudo in Ubuntu. Or Debian. Or CentOS etc. But due to the decentralised nature of linux, there's no unified GUI to do that so most guides prefers to use terminal. So solving problems becomes more like debugging codes which would turns many users away.

2. Yeah Gimp and Inkscape are inferior to their adobe counterparts ant the end of the day. But libreoffice suite is pretty usable imo. Reminds me of Office 2003 that I used to use as a kid.

Winnyace wrote:

what do you think about the rumors of Windows 12 going subscription based?

If I ain't migrated to linux by then, then time to sail the high seas I guess

There this project which aim to bring back the conveniece https://rectify11.net/

Nah. Windows 11 UI is stupid, not user-friendly and ugly. I mean, a lot of wasted space imo. I'm still on Win10 btw.

i plan to use win10 forever till i HAVE to switch to like win11 or future versions

I've heard that win11 wasn't compatible with a lot of games...

ngl, windows 10 is the best version of looks i think

Windows 11 is by far the most optimized version, but Windows 10 is the version that everyone uses

oooh. what even really are the differences and idk if i should really switch since i dont know any reasons to switch

If your computer is compatible, you can switch to Windows 11. The only problem is that it won't work with all games iirc

Anaxii wrote:

[-Omni-] wrote:

Anaxii wrote:

[-Omni-] wrote:

Anaxii wrote:

[-Omni-] wrote:

Jangsoodlor wrote:

Nanofranne wrote:

Jangsoodlor wrote:

Windows 10 is resource-intensive but still somewhat usable. Windows 11, on the other habd, is downright stupidity. Shift + Right click for "advanced" dialogs in flie explorer? NAH. Not to mention the new Settings app in Win10/11 is very inferior to Control Panel. Also yhe lack of coherent theming. For me the last "good" Windows is Windows 7.

Patatitta wrote:

and while it is open source, that brings up problems too, appliactions in windows are made for windows 10/11 and that's it. If you have a problem, you google "problem windows 10 fix" and you get 20 videos, however, with linux, there are tons of distro, so when you have a problem or just dont know how to do something, it's a lot harder to find answers. It has also happened to me that I have a problem with a specific app that may not be the most popular, I google the problem, i'm using ubuntu and the answer is for debian. So now I need to look how to do all the stuff that they say but on my distro, which is still more steps than what I have to do in windows

and now, while there is software made for linux, we got to keep in mind who is currently using windows, which are mainly computer science people, github people. So yeah, the program may do it's function correctly, but out of all of those software devs, there barely are any art people, so a lot of the software lack a good UI, just compare microsoft word to libreoffice. And again, when you look into more specialized software, like that one time I was trying to clone my hard drive in linux, the best way to clone a hard drive in linux is just basically pure terminal, however, with windows or macOS it's SO much easier and intuitive. There are many of these examples where linux just ends up being worse than windows

1. Aside from package managers and some system components (most notably desktop environment, audio server and wayland support), linux distros have a coherent and interoperable command line instructions. sudo in arch would be the same as sudo in Ubuntu. Or Debian. Or CentOS etc. But due to the decentralised nature of linux, there's no unified GUI to do that so most guides prefers to use terminal. So solving problems becomes more like debugging codes which would turns many users away.

2. Yeah Gimp and Inkscape are inferior to their adobe counterparts ant the end of the day. But libreoffice suite is pretty usable imo. Reminds me of Office 2003 that I used to use as a kid.

Winnyace wrote:

what do you think about the rumors of Windows 12 going subscription based?

If I ain't migrated to linux by then, then time to sail the high seas I guess

There this project which aim to bring back the conveniece https://rectify11.net/

Nah. Windows 11 UI is stupid, not user-friendly and ugly. I mean, a lot of wasted space imo. I'm still on Win10 btw.

i plan to use win10 forever till i HAVE to switch to like win11 or future versions

I've heard that win11 wasn't compatible with a lot of games...

ngl, windows 10 is the best version of looks i think

Windows 11 is by far the most optimized version, but Windows 10 is the version that everyone uses

oooh. what even really are the differences and idk if i should really switch since i dont know any reasons to switch

If your computer is compatible, you can switch to Windows 11. The only problem is that it won't work with all games iirc

i think i need to enable something to be compatible but idk how to

Patatitta wrote:

Winnyace wrote:

Patatitta wrote:

Winnyace wrote:

Before I begin, I'm going to say I'm biased here, since I use Linux almost full time. I do use Windows 11 from time to time because I'm lazy.

Patatitta wrote:

and while it is open source, that brings up problems too, appliactions in windows are made for windows 10/11 and that's it. If you have a problem, you google "problem windows 10 fix" and you get 20 videos, however, with linux, there are tons of distro, so when you have a problem or just dont know how to do something, it's a lot harder to find answers. It has also happened to me that I have a problem with a specific app that may not be the most popular, I google the problem, i'm using ubuntu and the answer is for debian. So now I need to look how to do all the stuff that they say but on my distro, which is still more steps than what I have to do in windows

Ubuntu is based on Debian, so any solution that works on Debian has a 99% chance of working on Ubuntu as well. Even on a different distro, the chance of something working on your used distro is 80% I would say. Distros don't matter. Very few actually change something significant under the hood and all use the Linux kernel, with the same set of packages, so solutions are interchangeable between distros. This, however, requires time to learn, which brings me to the next paragraph that you wrote that interests me.

Patatitta wrote:

and now, while there is software made for linux, we got to keep in mind who is currently using windows, which are mainly computer science people, github people. So yeah, the program may do it's function correctly, but out of all of those software devs, there barely are any art people, so a lot of the software lack a good UI, just compare microsoft word to libreoffice. And again, when you look into more specialized software, like that one time I was trying to clone my hard drive in linux, the best way to clone a hard drive in linux is just basically pure terminal, however, with windows or macOS it's SO much easier and intuitive. There are many of these examples where linux just ends up being worse than windows

I will tackle in different points, even though you put it all in one paragraph.


Windows's primary user base is individuals who quite literally open up a web browser and do all of their work within one. It's now masked by making applications of such services available, but at the heart of them are nothing more than web services, apps that you can interact with and use from within a browser. Every single modern browser, from Firefox to Microsoft Edge is available on Linux fully. It is my believe that many people very likely will never notice that the OSes have changed if you don't tell them and make Linux look like Windows, which is possible. Linux's primary user base is programmers, but there are a lot of other people using it too, most notably gamers. The user base is more accustomed to computers, however. That's the only difference.

UI and UX are subjective. LibreOffice can be made to use an UI similar to Microsoft Office if you really wanted. It's right in the app too. There also exists a web version of Microsoft Office that, I think, does everything most people would need out of Word, Excel, etc. I'm biased here because I use it, but most apps on Linux actually have a good UI, besides creative applications, though even Adobe doesn't have the most user-friendly UIs for their creative suites.

Tutorials for Linux always show the terminal way of doing it, alongside the GUI way if there is a program that automates things. Why? Because it's easier for the writer of the tutorial to actually help you with a terminal command than it is give you 20 steps to do something with a GUI. I can understand that the terminal is intimidating, but at this point, I honestly heard this point so much that I believe it to be a stupid justification for not even trying to understand it a bit. The terminal provides the easiest and fastest way of performing an action on entire computer. True, it is often cryptic and requires you learn a bit of how a command works, but it isn't, at all, someone with average intelligence and a bit of time can't do. Google here is very handy. Tutorials often explain the commands, if not bit by bit, at least overall. There are also websites that automatically show you what the command does.Yes, I agree that it isn't the greatest experience and it does require a bit of your time to do a bit of research, but calling it hard is a bit of stretch too.

Patatitta wrote:

as you said, you need to work on windows, the speed of linux can be reduced if you consider you got to run wine and stuff. So you aren't really getting any faster

It very heavily depends on your hardware. For games, Wine's biggest use case, on AMD, the performance between games very slightly above Windows in some titles. It is within margin of error. You very likely won't notice it on a mid to high end system. On a low end system, yes, the story changes.
There's also the fact that the work can be entirely done on Linux too. I've done my high school project assignments on Linux and then presented on a Windows laptop without an issue. From C++ programs to PowerPoint presentations. If the work in question can be done in any software of your choosing, you can easily do it on Linux 99% of the time. It's only a matter of familiarity with the tools available on Linux as compared to Windows.

Patatitta wrote:

if there was like an unified linux distro that was the industry standard, yeah linux would be better, however, that just isn't the case and I doubt it's ever going to happen. And the true reality that we're living currently is closer to the things i've been describing, which in many ways are just worse than in windows

It is impossible now for Linux to get unified. It doesn't need to be because Linux is already the industry standard for servers and embedded cases where an OS needs to be used. It isn't an industry standard for desktop usage. There are efforts done to make it so developers won't need to accommodate for so many variations and just release once and forget about it. It will take time, because only recently have people actually tried to make the Linux desktop a really cool experience. In my opinion, the experience is good. It will take a bit of learn how some things work, but you needed to time to learn how Windows worked too, didn't you?

just to make clear, I HAVE used linux, I have used linux for years in fact. I know how to use the terminal, shit, I did almost everything with the linux terminal, however, that doesn't mean that a terminal is better. GUI is always way more intuitive, the most if you're doing things that you're not the most used to

it's true that debian and ubuntu and stuff at the end of the ady it's just linux, however, the way that linux is presented and some very small steps do change, so if I wanted to watch a video tutorial on how to fix something, it's just better for it to just so happen to be from your exact version of your OS, which is very common for windows but not so much common with linux most of the time.

I'm mainly talking about my perspective here, so while a lot of people can just use firefox for everything, I personally cant, I need to use photoshop, and gimp just does not cut it. I need to clone my hard drive, but I don't know how to do it, the GUI that there is a lot worse than the one windows has, and the video tutorials are worse than if it was in windows

the GUI, while it's true that for example adobe's UI suck, it's more common to at least be some effort and in fact, an UI, for example, for specific tasks, there are programs that do require you to use the terminal in linux. It's a reason of why people for example may want to use windows server, even if it has a worse performance than a linux one, it's just easier to use, and while yeah, full terminal, no UI, no background processes will make the program run faster and better, there is a human element here, and I think it's in a lot of cases sacrificing that performance for ease of use. And even if you know how to use the terminal in general, there will ALWAYS be scenarios where you must do something new, and it's 90% of the time easier to do something new in GUI than pure terminal

+ I do just think the average windows UI look better than the linux UI, but this is just personal preference IG

about the wine stuff, I guess it's just my pc build that really struggles with translation I guess, I did see worse performance on linux than on windows.

about the last thing, I know that linux cant get unified, I in fact did mention that it was not going to happen, however, I think it's a fact that it's harder to learn linux than to learn windows, windows was designed for people that haven't even touched a computer in their life to be able to work completely fine, however linux is made for tech-savy people, so that means that the skill floor is higher in this case

I haven't made the case that the terminal is more intuitive, unless I choose the wrong words that implied that. I don't think it is intuitive, especially for a beginner user, but calling it hard is, in my eyes an over-exaggeration You both state that you have used Linux for years, yet you still don't know how to clone a disk drive that's literally a command you can find with a simply find by googling how to do it? To me, it just completely invalidates what you said about your experience in the OS.

I do get your point behind it, however. There are things that are annoyingly difficult to do in Linux compared to Windows. It's all a matter of preference, like how you like Windows's UI compared to... I suppose GNOME, since that's the most popular desktop environment for Linux, and I do understand that some people just prefer Windows. I just don't like when people bring the most stupid justifications for it. Photoshop vs. GIMP, for example: Some people like Photoshop, some like GIMP. Both piece of software work differently and comparing them is a bit like comparing apples to oranges. Everyone has a preference and that's not only more than fine, it is a perfect justification for not liking Linux.

Linux, in my opinion, is made for two extremes of people: the complete newbie, since distros like Linux Mint really make using the computer for a complete newbie more secure and in my opinion better than on Windows, and seasoned veteran. Online, especially in the circles I run around, people are smack in the middle of these two extremes, so for them, using Linux is a challenge since they're used to Windows, most likely. Ultimately, both OSes have advantages and disadvantages and it's a matter of choice and of use case.

Zelzatter Zero wrote:

wait last i checked the rumor turned out to be false. the fuck?

I think? I kinda recently learnt that they may go in that direction. I doubt myself they would actually go to a subscription model, but I thought it was an interesting topic.

clayton wrote:

of course topic about specifically windows ends up getting instantly derailed into talking about linux

The internet for you.

dude I didn't know how to clone a hard drive when I STARTED using linux, I learned it after a while, you cant just go on and "invalidate" all my years of linux usage just because I was a beginner once

I didn't mean that. I meant more the fact that you said you used Linux for a long time, yet you bring up this issue as if it was recent and something that threw you in a loop, even though you had this experience for a long time. It doesn't invalidate your opinion or whatever, just felt like you were contracting yourself a bit when it came to your years of Linux usage. Either way, I apologize if I offended you in a way.

Anaxii wrote:

[-Omni-] wrote:

Jangsoodlor wrote:

Nanofranne wrote:

Jangsoodlor wrote:

Windows 10 is resource-intensive but still somewhat usable. Windows 11, on the other habd, is downright stupidity. Shift + Right click for "advanced" dialogs in flie explorer? NAH. Not to mention the new Settings app in Win10/11 is very inferior to Control Panel. Also yhe lack of coherent theming. For me the last "good" Windows is Windows 7.

Patatitta wrote:

and while it is open source, that brings up problems too, appliactions in windows are made for windows 10/11 and that's it. If you have a problem, you google "problem windows 10 fix" and you get 20 videos, however, with linux, there are tons of distro, so when you have a problem or just dont know how to do something, it's a lot harder to find answers. It has also happened to me that I have a problem with a specific app that may not be the most popular, I google the problem, i'm using ubuntu and the answer is for debian. So now I need to look how to do all the stuff that they say but on my distro, which is still more steps than what I have to do in windows

and now, while there is software made for linux, we got to keep in mind who is currently using windows, which are mainly computer science people, github people. So yeah, the program may do it's function correctly, but out of all of those software devs, there barely are any art people, so a lot of the software lack a good UI, just compare microsoft word to libreoffice. And again, when you look into more specialized software, like that one time I was trying to clone my hard drive in linux, the best way to clone a hard drive in linux is just basically pure terminal, however, with windows or macOS it's SO much easier and intuitive. There are many of these examples where linux just ends up being worse than windows

1. Aside from package managers and some system components (most notably desktop environment, audio server and wayland support), linux distros have a coherent and interoperable command line instructions. sudo in arch would be the same as sudo in Ubuntu. Or Debian. Or CentOS etc. But due to the decentralised nature of linux, there's no unified GUI to do that so most guides prefers to use terminal. So solving problems becomes more like debugging codes which would turns many users away.

2. Yeah Gimp and Inkscape are inferior to their adobe counterparts ant the end of the day. But libreoffice suite is pretty usable imo. Reminds me of Office 2003 that I used to use as a kid.

Winnyace wrote:

what do you think about the rumors of Windows 12 going subscription based?

If I ain't migrated to linux by then, then time to sail the high seas I guess

There this project which aim to bring back the conveniece https://rectify11.net/

Nah. Windows 11 UI is stupid, not user-friendly and ugly. I mean, a lot of wasted space imo. I'm still on Win10 btw.

i plan to use win10 forever till i HAVE to switch to like win11 or future versions

I've heard that win11 wasn't compatible with a lot of games...

uhh........ no? I don't think that's true. Their biggest advantage IS the fact they support so many programs, from years old.

Winnyace wrote:

Patatitta wrote:

Winnyace wrote:

Patatitta wrote:

Winnyace wrote:

Before I begin, I'm going to say I'm biased here, since I use Linux almost full time. I do use Windows 11 from time to time because I'm lazy.

Patatitta wrote:

and while it is open source, that brings up problems too, appliactions in windows are made for windows 10/11 and that's it. If you have a problem, you google "problem windows 10 fix" and you get 20 videos, however, with linux, there are tons of distro, so when you have a problem or just dont know how to do something, it's a lot harder to find answers. It has also happened to me that I have a problem with a specific app that may not be the most popular, I google the problem, i'm using ubuntu and the answer is for debian. So now I need to look how to do all the stuff that they say but on my distro, which is still more steps than what I have to do in windows

Ubuntu is based on Debian, so any solution that works on Debian has a 99% chance of working on Ubuntu as well. Even on a different distro, the chance of something working on your used distro is 80% I would say. Distros don't matter. Very few actually change something significant under the hood and all use the Linux kernel, with the same set of packages, so solutions are interchangeable between distros. This, however, requires time to learn, which brings me to the next paragraph that you wrote that interests me.

Patatitta wrote:

and now, while there is software made for linux, we got to keep in mind who is currently using windows, which are mainly computer science people, github people. So yeah, the program may do it's function correctly, but out of all of those software devs, there barely are any art people, so a lot of the software lack a good UI, just compare microsoft word to libreoffice. And again, when you look into more specialized software, like that one time I was trying to clone my hard drive in linux, the best way to clone a hard drive in linux is just basically pure terminal, however, with windows or macOS it's SO much easier and intuitive. There are many of these examples where linux just ends up being worse than windows

I will tackle in different points, even though you put it all in one paragraph.


Windows's primary user base is individuals who quite literally open up a web browser and do all of their work within one. It's now masked by making applications of such services available, but at the heart of them are nothing more than web services, apps that you can interact with and use from within a browser. Every single modern browser, from Firefox to Microsoft Edge is available on Linux fully. It is my believe that many people very likely will never notice that the OSes have changed if you don't tell them and make Linux look like Windows, which is possible. Linux's primary user base is programmers, but there are a lot of other people using it too, most notably gamers. The user base is more accustomed to computers, however. That's the only difference.

UI and UX are subjective. LibreOffice can be made to use an UI similar to Microsoft Office if you really wanted. It's right in the app too. There also exists a web version of Microsoft Office that, I think, does everything most people would need out of Word, Excel, etc. I'm biased here because I use it, but most apps on Linux actually have a good UI, besides creative applications, though even Adobe doesn't have the most user-friendly UIs for their creative suites.

Tutorials for Linux always show the terminal way of doing it, alongside the GUI way if there is a program that automates things. Why? Because it's easier for the writer of the tutorial to actually help you with a terminal command than it is give you 20 steps to do something with a GUI. I can understand that the terminal is intimidating, but at this point, I honestly heard this point so much that I believe it to be a stupid justification for not even trying to understand it a bit. The terminal provides the easiest and fastest way of performing an action on entire computer. True, it is often cryptic and requires you learn a bit of how a command works, but it isn't, at all, someone with average intelligence and a bit of time can't do. Google here is very handy. Tutorials often explain the commands, if not bit by bit, at least overall. There are also websites that automatically show you what the command does.Yes, I agree that it isn't the greatest experience and it does require a bit of your time to do a bit of research, but calling it hard is a bit of stretch too.

Patatitta wrote:

as you said, you need to work on windows, the speed of linux can be reduced if you consider you got to run wine and stuff. So you aren't really getting any faster

It very heavily depends on your hardware. For games, Wine's biggest use case, on AMD, the performance between games very slightly above Windows in some titles. It is within margin of error. You very likely won't notice it on a mid to high end system. On a low end system, yes, the story changes.
There's also the fact that the work can be entirely done on Linux too. I've done my high school project assignments on Linux and then presented on a Windows laptop without an issue. From C++ programs to PowerPoint presentations. If the work in question can be done in any software of your choosing, you can easily do it on Linux 99% of the time. It's only a matter of familiarity with the tools available on Linux as compared to Windows.

Patatitta wrote:

if there was like an unified linux distro that was the industry standard, yeah linux would be better, however, that just isn't the case and I doubt it's ever going to happen. And the true reality that we're living currently is closer to the things i've been describing, which in many ways are just worse than in windows

It is impossible now for Linux to get unified. It doesn't need to be because Linux is already the industry standard for servers and embedded cases where an OS needs to be used. It isn't an industry standard for desktop usage. There are efforts done to make it so developers won't need to accommodate for so many variations and just release once and forget about it. It will take time, because only recently have people actually tried to make the Linux desktop a really cool experience. In my opinion, the experience is good. It will take a bit of learn how some things work, but you needed to time to learn how Windows worked too, didn't you?

just to make clear, I HAVE used linux, I have used linux for years in fact. I know how to use the terminal, shit, I did almost everything with the linux terminal, however, that doesn't mean that a terminal is better. GUI is always way more intuitive, the most if you're doing things that you're not the most used to

it's true that debian and ubuntu and stuff at the end of the ady it's just linux, however, the way that linux is presented and some very small steps do change, so if I wanted to watch a video tutorial on how to fix something, it's just better for it to just so happen to be from your exact version of your OS, which is very common for windows but not so much common with linux most of the time.

I'm mainly talking about my perspective here, so while a lot of people can just use firefox for everything, I personally cant, I need to use photoshop, and gimp just does not cut it. I need to clone my hard drive, but I don't know how to do it, the GUI that there is a lot worse than the one windows has, and the video tutorials are worse than if it was in windows

the GUI, while it's true that for example adobe's UI suck, it's more common to at least be some effort and in fact, an UI, for example, for specific tasks, there are programs that do require you to use the terminal in linux. It's a reason of why people for example may want to use windows server, even if it has a worse performance than a linux one, it's just easier to use, and while yeah, full terminal, no UI, no background processes will make the program run faster and better, there is a human element here, and I think it's in a lot of cases sacrificing that performance for ease of use. And even if you know how to use the terminal in general, there will ALWAYS be scenarios where you must do something new, and it's 90% of the time easier to do something new in GUI than pure terminal

+ I do just think the average windows UI look better than the linux UI, but this is just personal preference IG

about the wine stuff, I guess it's just my pc build that really struggles with translation I guess, I did see worse performance on linux than on windows.

about the last thing, I know that linux cant get unified, I in fact did mention that it was not going to happen, however, I think it's a fact that it's harder to learn linux than to learn windows, windows was designed for people that haven't even touched a computer in their life to be able to work completely fine, however linux is made for tech-savy people, so that means that the skill floor is higher in this case

I haven't made the case that the terminal is more intuitive, unless I choose the wrong words that implied that. I don't think it is intuitive, especially for a beginner user, but calling it hard is, in my eyes an over-exaggeration You both state that you have used Linux for years, yet you still don't know how to clone a disk drive that's literally a command you can find with a simply find by googling how to do it? To me, it just completely invalidates what you said about your experience in the OS.

I do get your point behind it, however. There are things that are annoyingly difficult to do in Linux compared to Windows. It's all a matter of preference, like how you like Windows's UI compared to... I suppose GNOME, since that's the most popular desktop environment for Linux, and I do understand that some people just prefer Windows. I just don't like when people bring the most stupid justifications for it. Photoshop vs. GIMP, for example: Some people like Photoshop, some like GIMP. Both piece of software work differently and comparing them is a bit like comparing apples to oranges. Everyone has a preference and that's not only more than fine, it is a perfect justification for not liking Linux.

Linux, in my opinion, is made for two extremes of people: the complete newbie, since distros like Linux Mint really make using the computer for a complete newbie more secure and in my opinion better than on Windows, and seasoned veteran. Online, especially in the circles I run around, people are smack in the middle of these two extremes, so for them, using Linux is a challenge since they're used to Windows, most likely. Ultimately, both OSes have advantages and disadvantages and it's a matter of choice and of use case.

Zelzatter Zero wrote:

wait last i checked the rumor turned out to be false. the fuck?

I think? I kinda recently learnt that they may go in that direction. I doubt myself they would actually go to a subscription model, but I thought it was an interesting topic.

clayton wrote:

of course topic about specifically windows ends up getting instantly derailed into talking about linux

The internet for you.

dude I didn't know how to clone a hard drive when I STARTED using linux, I learned it after a while, you cant just go on and "invalidate" all my years of linux usage just because I was a beginner once

I didn't mean that. I meant more the fact that you said you used Linux for a long time, yet you bring up this issue as if it was recent and something that threw you in a loop, even though you had this experience for a long time. It doesn't invalidate your opinion or whatever, just felt like you were contracting yourself a bit when it came to your years of Linux usage. Either way, I apologize if I offended you in a way.

Anaxii wrote:

[-Omni-] wrote:

Jangsoodlor wrote:

Nanofranne wrote:

Jangsoodlor wrote:

Windows 10 is resource-intensive but still somewhat usable. Windows 11, on the other habd, is downright stupidity. Shift + Right click for "advanced" dialogs in flie explorer? NAH. Not to mention the new Settings app in Win10/11 is very inferior to Control Panel. Also yhe lack of coherent theming. For me the last "good" Windows is Windows 7.

Patatitta wrote:

and while it is open source, that brings up problems too, appliactions in windows are made for windows 10/11 and that's it. If you have a problem, you google "problem windows 10 fix" and you get 20 videos, however, with linux, there are tons of distro, so when you have a problem or just dont know how to do something, it's a lot harder to find answers. It has also happened to me that I have a problem with a specific app that may not be the most popular, I google the problem, i'm using ubuntu and the answer is for debian. So now I need to look how to do all the stuff that they say but on my distro, which is still more steps than what I have to do in windows

and now, while there is software made for linux, we got to keep in mind who is currently using windows, which are mainly computer science people, github people. So yeah, the program may do it's function correctly, but out of all of those software devs, there barely are any art people, so a lot of the software lack a good UI, just compare microsoft word to libreoffice. And again, when you look into more specialized software, like that one time I was trying to clone my hard drive in linux, the best way to clone a hard drive in linux is just basically pure terminal, however, with windows or macOS it's SO much easier and intuitive. There are many of these examples where linux just ends up being worse than windows

1. Aside from package managers and some system components (most notably desktop environment, audio server and wayland support), linux distros have a coherent and interoperable command line instructions. sudo in arch would be the same as sudo in Ubuntu. Or Debian. Or CentOS etc. But due to the decentralised nature of linux, there's no unified GUI to do that so most guides prefers to use terminal. So solving problems becomes more like debugging codes which would turns many users away.

2. Yeah Gimp and Inkscape are inferior to their adobe counterparts ant the end of the day. But libreoffice suite is pretty usable imo. Reminds me of Office 2003 that I used to use as a kid.

Winnyace wrote:

what do you think about the rumors of Windows 12 going subscription based?

If I ain't migrated to linux by then, then time to sail the high seas I guess

There this project which aim to bring back the conveniece https://rectify11.net/

Nah. Windows 11 UI is stupid, not user-friendly and ugly. I mean, a lot of wasted space imo. I'm still on Win10 btw.

i plan to use win10 forever till i HAVE to switch to like win11 or future versions

I've heard that win11 wasn't compatible with a lot of games...

uhh........ no? I don't think that's true. Their biggest advantage IS the fact they support so many programs, from years old.

im confused now ;-;

I've been using Windows since I was 4. and I've been gaming online since I was 5 without parental supervision. Are you telling me to change now? I probably could do it actually

nekonyo wrote:

I've been using Windows since I was 4. and I've been gaming online since I was 5 without parental supervision. Are you telling me to change now? I probably could do it actually

i think ive been using windows since that age also? maybe younger or older idk

spyware, inconsistent design and laggy on old hardware

nekonyo wrote:

I've been using Windows since I was 4. and I've been gaming online since I was 5 without parental supervision. Are you telling me to change now? I probably could do it actually

Yes /s

Use whatever you want. In my eyes, both are good options.

Corne2Plum3 wrote:

spyware, inconsistent design and laggy on old hardware

Yeah, Windows 11 isn't a really good release. Neither was 10, in my opinion.

nekonyo wrote:

I've been using Windows since I was 4. and I've been gaming online since I was 5 without parental supervision. Are you telling me to change now? I probably could do it actually

It wouldn't be that hard to switch entirely I think lol

Anaxii wrote:

nekonyo wrote:

I've been using Windows since I was 4. and I've been gaming online since I was 5 without parental supervision. Are you telling me to change now? I probably could do it actually

It wouldn't be that hard to switch entirely I think lol

It entirely depends on one's use case and even then, the growing pains can last for some time.

Winnyace wrote:

Anaxii wrote:

nekonyo wrote:

I've been using Windows since I was 4. and I've been gaming online since I was 5 without parental supervision. Are you telling me to change now? I probably could do it actually

It wouldn't be that hard to switch entirely I think lol

It entirely depends on one's use case and even then, the growing pains can last for some time.

Never stepping out of your comfort zone, I get it

been contemplating on switching to linux from windows but held it back forever because one thing; windows is way more accessible. linux is without a doubt the better os to me but for someone lazy like me, windows is way more simpler to use. e.g. programs and other shits rarely have a linux downloader in exchange for windows. havent tried linux so i obviously wouldnt know much but thats what i heard people say. anyways im planning on taking a robotics class in uni which would almost certainly require me to switch to linux but until then windows works just fine lol.