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Retry*2000

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Total Posts
51
nooblet
630 posts
Joined December 2011
Topic Starter
nooblet
I understand beating highscores requires a FC/high accuracy and stuff, but I don't really understand why people sometimes just grind the first few seconds of a map over and over again. I haven't seen many maps that have a beginning that's ridiculously annoying compared to the rest of the map, I'm not including those(http://osu.ppy.sh/b/87369 being one of the few I can name off the top), but even IF you manage to, say, SS the beginning, wouldn't you just drop it again somewhere else if just the beginning alone is taking 50 tries? Personally I don't find it necessary to grind a map like that unless you're capable of doing the combo/getting that accuracy in the first place, like a map where you only get 1-2 breaks regularly you can grind that break out and combo.

Someone please explain? I just don't get it, seems like a waste of time unless you're rrtyui playing Big Black.
Kert
2,079 posts
Joined June 2009
Kert
Constantly retrying to get better acc suprisingly makes you more accurate (not only on this map)
nooblet
630 posts
Joined December 2011
Topic Starter
nooblet

Kert wrote:

Constantly retrying to get better acc suprisingly makes you more accurate (not only on this map)
Kinda missed my point, I'm not asking about retrying, I'm asking about retrying a ridiculous number of times on a beatmap just on the beginning. It may help get used to the bpm of the current beatmap, but doesn't that effect come with just a regular playthrough? Why bother retrying just the beginning? It's not like it saves times or anything o_O
Triskelion91
155 posts
Joined March 2011
Triskelion91
I usually find the beginning and ending of a beatmap the hardest. Everything in the middle is just whatever.
winber1
4,520 posts
Joined February 2010
winber1
it does save time in terms of FC-ing a map that isn't very hard, i do it all the time when i really don't feel like playing through the whole song like 20 times to FC it, general I do it on random anime opening songs if at al, since those are usually pretty easy to fcl. but that's a habit i have.

it's more of a pet peeve kind of thing where if i miss my instant reaction is to retry
Myke B
1,074 posts
Joined April 2012
Myke B
There's no one answer. Some people do it because the beginning of the map is too hard to fc, some want better acc, etc. but I never see people retrying the first bit of the map for fun lol - there's always a reason. It's not complicated, and it's most likely one of the two I listed.

Kinda missed my point, I'm not asking about retrying, I'm asking about retrying a ridiculous number of times on a beatmap just on the beginning.
wat. What Kert said is still valid.
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo
it's a waste of time

people are doing it because they're not using their heads

no other explanation is valid
uzzi
786 posts
Joined September 2012
uzzi

Aqo wrote:

it's a waste of time

people are doing it because they're not using their heads

no other explanation is valid
Pretty much this. You shouldn't retry the beginning of a song a billion times, since it'll effect how you deal with the rest of the map. Its best to at least clear the map, or go through a good portion of it if you've been retrying the beginning a couple of times.
Myke B
1,074 posts
Joined April 2012
Myke B

- [ U z z I ] - wrote:

Aqo wrote:

it's a waste of time

people are doing it because they're not using their heads

no other explanation is valid
Pretty much this. You shouldn't retry the beginning of a song a billion times, since it'll effect how you deal with the rest of the map. Its best to at least clear the map, or go through a good portion of it if you've been retrying the beginning a couple of times.
To be fair, we don't actually know how many replays we're talking about here. 2000 was obviously an exaggeration. I've retried the same map 60+ times, and sometimes it was the beginning for maybe 10-20 of those. Also, what is considered the "beginning"? He could just as easily be talking about what I'm doing. If I mess up and maybe don't 100% the "beginning" then I will retry, but I eventually end up fcing it (or I wouldn't have put that much time into the song anyways). It's pretty illogical for someone to try to fc a map without at least beating it once anyways.
nooblet
630 posts
Joined December 2011
Topic Starter
nooblet

winber1 wrote:

it does save time in terms of FC-ing a map that isn't very hard, i do it all the time when i really don't feel like playing through the whole song like 20 times to FC it, general I do it on random anime opening songs if at al, since those are usually pretty easy to fcl. but that's a habit i have.

it's more of a pet peeve kind of thing where if i miss my instant reaction is to retry
But... Why? If you need 20 retries to FC it, it can't possibly be just the beginning alone can it, or does FCing the first 30 secs of TV Sizes make the other minute easier? o-O

- [ U z z I ] - wrote:

Aqo wrote:

it's a waste of time

people are doing it because they're not using their heads

no other explanation is valid
Pretty much this. You shouldn't retry the beginning of a song a billion times, since it'll effect how you deal with the rest of the map. Its best to at least clear the map, or go through a good portion of it if you've been retrying the beginning a couple of times.
That's what I thought, but there are still quite a few people who do it. I've seen it in spectator when randomly spectating, seen it in forums, so... just curious. Seems completely illogical to me as well.

Myke B wrote:

There's no one answer. Some people do it because the beginning of the map is too hard to fc, some want better acc, etc. but I never see people retrying the first bit of the map for fun lol - there's always a reason. It's not complicated, and it's most likely one of the two I listed.
First reason I already excluded. As for better acc, how does just playing the beginning help you with the rest of the map other than feel the BPM more? Wouldn't you wanna improve accuracy on the WHOLE MAP instead of just the beginning? One messed up stream easily brings a 99% play down to 97%. Doesn't seem like much by number, but it's a massive difference.
Myke B
1,074 posts
Joined April 2012
Myke B
I don't mean more accurate overall, I mean maybe they got one too many 100's or something, and they want to start it off with 100% or something close.
NotCookie_old
NotCookie_old
Having a bad start on a song just doesn't feel right. I'd rather restart and get off to a clean start, with 'acceptable' accuracy/combo.
Xyrax Alaria
93 posts
Joined November 2013
Xyrax Alaria
For me, my telltale rule is: 'If I instantly miss a note from the get go, then I am bound to miss more." And this is true for myself most of time, so I will retry a lot of maps over and over again until I get a good starts to help give myself a better play for the rest of the map.
lolcubes
osu! Alumni
4,437 posts
Joined November 2010
lolcubes
They are probably getting a miss or a 100 and quickly retrying.
Since the spectator has some delay, it just didn't get to that point where the player got a 100 or a miss.
That's why it looks like someone is grinding the beginning.
GenoClysm
181 posts
Joined July 2013
GenoClysm

NotCookie wrote:

Having a bad start on a song just doesn't feel right. I'd rather restart and get off to a clean start, with 'acceptable' accuracy/combo.
Yeah, this is the reason i do it. For some reason i hate to have a bad start.
silmarilen
5,579 posts
Joined February 2010
silmarilen
imagine getting that 100 at the start, and then SSing the rest of the map, wouldnt that make you feel horrible?
even if you know you're not going to SS the map, every 100 you get at the start is a 100 you can avoid by just retrying it.
zork787
13 posts
Joined August 2009
zork787
lemmie think, missing at the start, getting a 100 at the start, getting a stream of nothing but 50's or 100's, missing because of my cursor's hitbox missing the beat by a few pixels at any point, and that's just a few
Myke B
1,074 posts
Joined April 2012
Myke B
oooh, if you're talking about spectator mode, then lolcubes is spot on. I wondered this at first like: "why the hell are they spam restarting when no notes even came?" or something like that.
nooblet
630 posts
Joined December 2011
Topic Starter
nooblet

NotCookie wrote:

Having a bad start on a song just doesn't feel right. I'd rather restart and get off to a clean start, with 'acceptable' accuracy/combo.

Xyrax Alaria wrote:

For me, my telltale rule is: 'If I instantly miss a note from the get go, then I am bound to miss more." And this is true for myself most of time, so I will retry a lot of maps over and over again until I get a good starts to help give myself a better play for the rest of the map.
That's true. I do this as well, perhaps once or twice, but if it takes something like 10 tries (Never retried a map that much at once...) to get a "good" start, isn't that a sign that the beatmap is perhaps too difficult at the moment, and getting that S is impossible anyways so just do what you can on a regular playthrough?

lolcubes wrote:

They are probably getting a miss or a 100 and quickly retrying.
Since the spectator has some delay, it just didn't get to that point where the player got a 100 or a miss.
That's why it looks like someone is grinding the beginning.
Ah this could be one part of it, if they're retrying not because of the 100 but because of a miss then I can understand completely. I'd restart on a miss as well XD.

silmarilen wrote:

imagine getting that 100 at the start, and then SSing the rest of the map, wouldnt that make you feel horrible?
even if you know you're not going to SS the map, every 100 you get at the start is a 100 you can avoid by just retrying it.
I would indeed feel like killing myself for not retrying, and proceed to retry that map for the SS (I usually fail miserably the second time), but it's not that common. Our favourite Finnish potato farmer thelewa said himself that going for SS is pretty much pointless, and the only person that I've seen with more SS's than S's is mugio3.
winber1
4,520 posts
Joined February 2010
winber1

nooblet wrote:

winber1 wrote:

it does save time in terms of FC-ing a map that isn't very hard, i do it all the time when i really don't feel like playing through the whole song like 20 times to FC it, general I do it on random anime opening songs if at al, since those are usually pretty easy to fcl. but that's a habit i have.

it's more of a pet peeve kind of thing where if i miss my instant reaction is to retry
But... Why? If you need 20 retries to FC it, it can't possibly be just the beginning alone can it, or does FCing the first 30 secs of TV Sizes make the other minute easier? o-O
sometimes yes, because it's an easy song. Easy enough to sight read the rest of the song. A ton of my HD DT records on those common anime songs are just me retrying like 5-8times for the first half of the song, then after I get past that I just end up fc-ing the rest because i can sightread it easily.

obviously this doesn't apply to the harder records i have.

only reason I did that was because it actually saved time, and back in the day, I was actually trying to rank up in the broken pp system, but at some point i stopped doing that because pp was pointless and i didn't have as much time as i had before. which was why i dropped from like rank 400 to rank like 940 in the old pp system. though now with this new system, i didn't even have to do anything and my rank increased by quite a lot, so yea.
NixXSkate
785 posts
Joined February 2011
NixXSkate
Sometimes constantly retrying a map screws with your rote memory so you can't do the beginning as easily, but once your past it, it becomes easier. This is also why some people find it easier to sightread FC than it is to FC after retrying.

<- Maybe the player is too blinded by rage to try it later and will rape the retry button anyway.
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny
an SS at the start and misses during the song is still better than an S at the start and the same amount of misses afterwards
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo

silmarilen wrote:

imagine getting that 100 at the start, and then SSing the rest of the map, wouldnt that make you feel horrible?
even if you know you're not going to SS the map, every 100 you get at the start is a 100 you can avoid by just retrying it.
you know how many times I missed one of the first 50 circles in a 1000+ combo map and FC'd all the rest...

it makes you feel like this:

:|
Myke B
1,074 posts
Joined April 2012
Myke B

Aqo wrote:

silmarilen wrote:

imagine getting that 100 at the start, and then SSing the rest of the map, wouldnt that make you feel horrible?
even if you know you're not going to SS the map, every 100 you get at the start is a 100 you can avoid by just retrying it.
you know how many times I missed one of the first 50 circles in a 1000+ combo map and FC'd all the rest...

it makes you feel like this:

:|
So then why is retrying the beginning a "waste of time" exactly?
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo

Myke B wrote:

So then why is retrying the beginning a "waste of time" exactly?
Because some people play for the fun of playing / to improve from the play and move on ; and not to farm FCs
Nobody guarantees you'd FC the map if you retried anyway
Myke B
1,074 posts
Joined April 2012
Myke B

Aqo wrote:

Myke B wrote:

So then why is retrying the beginning a "waste of time" exactly?
Because some people play for the fun of playing / to improve from the play and move on ; and not to farm FCs
Nobody guarantees you'd FC the map if you retried anyway
Of course not, but just because it isn't guaranteed doesn't mean it's waste of time, no?
GoldenWolf
2,983 posts
Joined May 2012
GoldenWolf
If it's mostly a jump map I won't bother retrying, I could miss anywhere so it'd be a waste of time
If it's a fast stream map I won't waste my time playing the full thing, I don't have unlimited stamina over 200bpm so if I want FC I retry as soon as I miss

Mostly that
Soulg
575 posts
Joined February 2013
Soulg
it makes no sense to me either but everybody is different and plays games for different reasons, i know a guy that literally plays a map once then uninstalls it completely because he's done with it.

on topic if i really want to do it for some reason i will spam retry until i get it.
my #1 on kokou no sousei took me almost 2 hours offline until i was to the point where i could do it, and i already had it memorized completely because of 600 playslol
RaneFire
1,181 posts
Joined May 2011
RaneFire

NixXSkate wrote:

Sometimes constantly retrying a map screws with your rote memory so you can't do the beginning as easily, but once your past it, it becomes easier. This is also why some people find it easier to sightread FC than it is to FC after retrying.
This is an interesting point for consistency and it's also why I like to play a song to the end most of the time. I will often also replay a song even if I FC it in 1 play count, usually to improve it, because consistency is just as much about sight-reading as it is about remembering things correctly so you can do the same things 2 or 3 times in a row without making a mistake.

Pushing limits on difficult maps is an exception though, because that's not very consistent :P

It's one of my philosophies that I carried over from another game, which I barely play anymore because osu!
I was accused of scripting quite often because I'd literally do the exact same run within 0.1 of a second about 50 times in a row, then eventually break my record by 0.008. Yeah, that doesn't sound too fun to most people... osu! is quite different though and I don't do that here :P
Last edited by RaneFire , edited 1 time in total.
Tshemmp
1,405 posts
Joined June 2011
Tshemmp
I am doing this when I get kinda mad, like "I should be able to FC/SS the beginning so easily, why am I failing". I just don't want to accept getting defeated BY A MAP.
But yeah, actually it is a waste of time.
lolcubes
osu! Alumni
4,437 posts
Joined November 2010
lolcubes

Tshemmp wrote:

But yeah, actually it is a waste of time.
So is reading and posting on the forums, most of the time, and people still do it. :p
(Just like I did now)
Salvage
590 posts
Joined January 2010
Salvage
Didn't read anything but in my case it's because if i don't, that's usually the play i fc the rest 100% and end up with the horrible beginning, otherwise is the totally opposite tho but well.
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny
Necro'ing
I would have fc'd this if I restarted after the first few seconds, so spam retrying because you missed at start isn't that bad, because you might actually fc the rest

QQ


Also, 1x miss/combo break thread
Mamoru Senpai
Mamoru Senpai

NotCookie wrote:

Having a bad start on a song just doesn't feel right. I'd rather restart and get off to a clean start, with 'acceptable' accuracy/combo.
I totally agree. I had some cases where I messed up at the start, ignored it and almost SS'd the rest of the map. Afterall I did regret not retrying the start.
AmaiHachimitsu
1,639 posts
Joined May 2011
AmaiHachimitsu
Grinding maps for too long is very bad because playing tricky parts over and over again creates a mental block and you later tend to miss far more often. You lose your time, health and nerves of which I'm the best example. I seriously regret retrying banned forever 700+ times in my first weeks of playing.

Grind only when you're in such a shape which you might not be later on. Well, this is how it should be. I grinded mostly because I hate losing to a map that I'm clearly capable of FCing. That all is due to my inconsistency and lack of focus, can't do much in this case (I think?).
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny

AmaiHachimitsu wrote:

Grinding maps for too long is very bad because playing tricky parts over and over again creates a mental block and you later tend to miss far more often. You lose your time, health and nerves of which I'm the best example. I seriously regret retrying banned forever 700+ times in my first weeks of playing.

Grind only when you're in such a shape which you might not be later on. Well, this is how it should be. I grinded mostly because I hate losing to a map that I'm clearly capable of FCing. That all is due to my inconsistency and lack of focus, can't do much in this case (I think?).
That first bit doesn't apply to me, I learned to overcome that mental block by not getting angry over retrying/missing
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