Your map is actually not that hard, but it deserves a bit more stars, maybe 4.8?TheZiemniax wrote:
When are the changes going to happen? I'm sick of looking at my 270 BPM beatmap loaded with hard streams that has 4,2 stars and I cant score an A on it (and I almost S'd verse IV)
Star rating is imcredibly broken
Converts give pp
Devs when is it going to change?
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Performance Points feedback and suggestions (osu!mania)
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TheZiemniax wrote:
When are the changes going to happen? I'm sick of looking at my 270 BPM beatmap loaded with hard streams that has 4,2 stars and I cant score an A on it (and I almost S'd verse IV)
Star rating is imcredibly broken
Converts give pp
Devs when is it going to change?
sometimes i wonder if devs checked this thread
I don't understand how you can compare absurdly long 270 BPM streams and say that it's just a touch harder than Elemental Creation (rated at 4.72). Verse IV and HAELEQUIN generally have the correct rating (though I'd argue Verse IV is a little higher - 5.5), and I'm pretty certain no one will be able to come close to S'ing The Empress 2D if they're barely S'ing those two maps. I seriously don't see how you can even compare something like 270 BPM stream (and they aren't the easiest patterns, either) for long periods and say that it's comparable to something like Elemental Creation, when it is pretty clear that more people will do substantially worse on TE than on HAELEQUIN or Verse IV.akuma123 wrote:
Your map is actually not that hard, but it deserves a bit more stars, maybe 4.8?TheZiemniax wrote:
When are the changes going to happen? I'm sick of looking at my 270 BPM beatmap loaded with hard streams that has 4,2 stars and I cant score an A on it (and I almost S'd verse IV)
Star rating is imcredibly broken
Converts give pp
Devs when is it going to change?
I am ready to pitch my idea in for the Mania star rating system.
1. SR calculated by adding up points per measure and adjust bonuses/penalties
calculate break time and decrease SR based on length (biggest decrease)
calculate length of low difficulty and decrease SR (lower difficulty = bigger decrease)
if difficulty is >= previous measure, bonus difficulty + .2
2. for every additional note on same time receives .5
ex. 3 note chord highest difficulty = 1 + .5 + .5 = 2, as opposed to 3
this gives chord values less of a difficulty than broken chords, rolls and such
for every chord that is the same as the previous will receive a penalty of difficulty*(.9)
3. for every LN = 1.5x value of a normal note, each additional LN during the duration
will add the difficulty by (1 if only one start/ending point is the same)
or (1.25 if both starting and ending points are different) or (.75 if both start
and end points are the same)
(highest difficulty calculated during the time LN are overlapped)
ex. 3 LN same time = 1.5 + .75 + .75 = 3
ex. 3 LN: 1 pair same start different end, 1 different start and end = 1.5 + 1 + 1.25 = 3.75
ex. 3 LN: 1 same start/end, 1 different start/end = 1.5 + .75 + 1.25 = 3.5
4. tighter jacks deserve exponential difficulty depending on tightness. because repetative notes/chords will decrease difficulty
and jacks that carry over multiple measures receive bonus difficulty due to same level of difficulty, the curve will be more balanced.
difficulty = (1 second/(note distance)*c)^2
c=constant (set to whatever feels right)
lets give c=4
ex. distance between notes = 1 sec: (1/4)^2 = .125 points
ex. distance = .2 sec (5x per sec): 1.5625 points
ex. distance = .1 sec (10x per sec): 6.25 points
5. balancing
part 1:
4k start same as 7k, scales higher
7k start same as 4k, scales lower
reason: as songs become more difficult, stamina will be the key factor in judging this section of difficulty, 4k is easier to maintain stamina at same difficulty
part 2:
4k start higher in this category but will scale lower
7k will start lower but will scale higher
reason: easier to learn low key amounts quickly and recognize positions compared to higher key amounts
part 3:
4k start same as 7k, scale lower
7k start same as 4k, scale higher
reason: beginners will usually be face with 1 or 2 ln's at a time, but due to having more keys = more ln's at a time
part 4:
4k start higher, scales higher
7k start lower, scales lower
reason: less columns = more notes hitting on same lane. that being said, 4k starts to focus on speed earlier and is mostly about speed end game
by combining all calculations into a scaled star rating, I think will represent a much more precise
measurement in every mania beatmap
1. SR calculated by adding up points per measure and adjust bonuses/penalties
calculate break time and decrease SR based on length (biggest decrease)
calculate length of low difficulty and decrease SR (lower difficulty = bigger decrease)
if difficulty is >= previous measure, bonus difficulty + .2
2. for every additional note on same time receives .5
ex. 3 note chord highest difficulty = 1 + .5 + .5 = 2, as opposed to 3
this gives chord values less of a difficulty than broken chords, rolls and such
for every chord that is the same as the previous will receive a penalty of difficulty*(.9)
3. for every LN = 1.5x value of a normal note, each additional LN during the duration
will add the difficulty by (1 if only one start/ending point is the same)
or (1.25 if both starting and ending points are different) or (.75 if both start
and end points are the same)
(highest difficulty calculated during the time LN are overlapped)
ex. 3 LN same time = 1.5 + .75 + .75 = 3
ex. 3 LN: 1 pair same start different end, 1 different start and end = 1.5 + 1 + 1.25 = 3.75
ex. 3 LN: 1 same start/end, 1 different start/end = 1.5 + .75 + 1.25 = 3.5
4. tighter jacks deserve exponential difficulty depending on tightness. because repetative notes/chords will decrease difficulty
and jacks that carry over multiple measures receive bonus difficulty due to same level of difficulty, the curve will be more balanced.
difficulty = (1 second/(note distance)*c)^2
c=constant (set to whatever feels right)
lets give c=4
ex. distance between notes = 1 sec: (1/4)^2 = .125 points
ex. distance = .2 sec (5x per sec): 1.5625 points
ex. distance = .1 sec (10x per sec): 6.25 points
5. balancing
part 1:
4k start same as 7k, scales higher
7k start same as 4k, scales lower
reason: as songs become more difficult, stamina will be the key factor in judging this section of difficulty, 4k is easier to maintain stamina at same difficulty
part 2:
4k start higher in this category but will scale lower
7k will start lower but will scale higher
reason: easier to learn low key amounts quickly and recognize positions compared to higher key amounts
part 3:
4k start same as 7k, scale lower
7k start same as 4k, scale higher
reason: beginners will usually be face with 1 or 2 ln's at a time, but due to having more keys = more ln's at a time
part 4:
4k start higher, scales higher
7k start lower, scales lower
reason: less columns = more notes hitting on same lane. that being said, 4k starts to focus on speed earlier and is mostly about speed end game
by combining all calculations into a scaled star rating, I think will represent a much more precise
measurement in every mania beatmap
Before I start, that was a bit hard to read. Consider some formatting.
The rest I think I can agree. Again, that was a pain to read, so I might have misread something.
Suppose a different offset for a given pattern. Sampling it by measure will result in varied star rating for each offset.Squishykorean wrote:
1. SR calculated by adding up points per measure and adjust bonuses/penalties
Not sure what the learning curve of inverted maps is and how they will be affected by your version of SR.Squishykorean wrote:
3. for every LN = 1.5x value of a normal note, each additional LN during the duration
will add the difficulty by (1 if only one start/ending point is the same)
or (1.25 if both starting and ending points are different) or (.75 if both start
and end points are the same)
The rest I think I can agree. Again, that was a pain to read, so I might have misread something.
abraker wrote:
Before I start, that was a bit hard to read. Consider some formatting.Suppose a different offset for a given pattern. Sampling it by measure will result in varied star rating for each offset.Squishykorean wrote:
1. SR calculated by adding up points per measure and adjust bonuses/penaltiesNot sure what the learning curve of inverted maps is and how they will be affected by your version of SR.Squishykorean wrote:
3. for every LN = 1.5x value of a normal note, each additional LN during the duration
will add the difficulty by (1 if only one start/ending point is the same)
or (1.25 if both starting and ending points are different) or (.75 if both start
and end points are the same)
The rest I think I can agree. Again, that was a pain to read, so I might have misread something.
by measuring the smallest unit, it would yield the most accurate measurement of difficulty, but calculating each beat would be too much. I'm not totally understand what you mean by offset will result in varied star rating, if its starts off late by 1/2 a measure, then it will end 1/2 a measure making no difference to the SR as a whole after it averages out. but then again, with using the bonus/penalty from comparing difficulty of the next measure it could impact the overall SR maybe by an insignificantly small margin.
the LN learning curve will be much more appropriate, usually LNs will start out on same lengths if multiple are present yielding smaller value. as songs become more difficult, there will be various lengths of LN making a higher value of difficulty.
all contain 6 LN in one measure, yet all have a different difficulty which using that formula takes care of that issue
as for the value of a LN to be 1.5 instead of it currently being worth 1 note (the worse of 2 scores: start and end release), it makes sense to increase their worth somehow since the scoring isn't completely fair on this. the scoring should be at least the average of accuracy of hitting and releasing
ex. 300 hold, 100 release would give 200 as opposed to 100
ex. 0 hold, 300 release would give 150 as opposed to 0
How does a 6.00 star map differ from a 6.10 star or a 1.00 star from a 1.10 star using your system? If you are not worried about such accuracy, then go ahead dismiss what I said.Squishykorean wrote:
by an insignificantly small margin.
Fair enough.Squishykorean wrote:
LN
EDIT: I feel like irregular notes deserve a bit bonus as well. For example, a two 1/4th, but between them is a 1/6th. I'm pretty sure adjust to hit something between half as fast or twice as fast depending on what note it is would have some difficulty aspect to it.
I want to hear someone else's opinion, especially Tom94's.
You know what would be really nice? If someone put together a way to actually test ideas like these out. I don't mean a tool that simply applies on specific calculation but one that can be tweaked easily so variations could easily be tested. It's one thing to just think about it and come up with an algorithm, it's a whole other thing to take a working implementation and test it against various maps and variations on the algorithm.
The single largest flaw in the current SR system isn't even the failure of the implementation to account for certain issues. The real problem is that while this feedback thread exists, there's been no way for the community to actively participate beyond making suggestions here. The SR algorithm hasn't had any changes in months. If it's stable enough to last this long, the algorithm should be public so we can actually examine it rather than make assumptions on how it works (and subsequently how to improve it). Certainly a community (or even small group of community members) looking over the algorithm would be better at spotting flaws and coming up with alternatives than a single person.
The single largest flaw in the current SR system isn't even the failure of the implementation to account for certain issues. The real problem is that while this feedback thread exists, there's been no way for the community to actively participate beyond making suggestions here. The SR algorithm hasn't had any changes in months. If it's stable enough to last this long, the algorithm should be public so we can actually examine it rather than make assumptions on how it works (and subsequently how to improve it). Certainly a community (or even small group of community members) looking over the algorithm would be better at spotting flaws and coming up with alternatives than a single person.
I would do that if I wasn't still making the analysis tool I said I was some month ago. Maybe I'll give this some priority a bit later. The best we can do is setup short sample patterns and calculate it ourselves until someone make such a thing.Bobbias wrote:
You know what would be really nice? If someone put together a way to actually test ideas like these out.
THIS ^Bobbias wrote:
The real problem is that while this feedback thread exists, there's been no way for the community to actively participate beyond making suggestions here.
just wanted to ask...
Is the pp still at work or is it finished?
This thread hasn't been updated for 4 months already so just thought to bump it a bit.
Is the pp still at work or is it finished?
This thread hasn't been updated for 4 months already so just thought to bump it a bit.
We dont have any clue where Tom94 is with this. My understanding is that he is busy with other stuff. Unless peppy pushes Tom to get something done, I doubt we are going to see something new for a whiledennischan wrote:
just wanted to ask...
Is the pp still at work or is it finished?
This thread hasn't been updated for 4 months already so just thought to bump it a bit.
No idea... This thread seems to be dead
yol oque opino esque nos de mas pp cuando sacomos una s o una a en cualquier dificultad
I'd love to see smthing like a multi mania mode with the 1.000.000 points cap unlocked so we can play player unbalanced matches like 2v5 or smthing. A little addon would change so much 
Pretty please :3
Pretty please :3C18H27NO3Elementaires wrote:
i wish LN maps can have a higher star rating..Redon wrote:
mania just needs to have a better star rating system, and the rest will fix itself automatically
maybe mappers can set their own star rating about this
maybe
)Thanks for info!
Would love mania 4K pp to be balanced with 7K and others. I think mania is the best mode in the game and I prefer it over the other similar rhythm games, so it would be great if you didn't drop the ball.
Regarding the update:
Do not award pp for scores below 50% of the maximum attainable score.Thanks.
There's a problem with this pp system, somehow I got 200 PP on a map where my best for all maps is 100 ish....
let me guess: triumph and regret
> checks
> triumph and regret
Either you randomly got unlucky in multiplayer or you know what you were going for. Either way, stay away from maps like these. They are bad for your mania skill.
> checks
> triumph and regret
Either you randomly got unlucky in multiplayer or you know what you were going for. Either way, stay away from maps like these. They are bad for your mania skill.
I completely agree man, because the max score you can get with 4k mod on is like 770k or something. Its insane!!!!!Riddle96 wrote:
Well, 4k and 7k are like 2 different games in the same rank, i think we need a different ranking, or a way to balance it, imho.
remove weighted or make it less harsh
maybe should give a LITTLE bit more pp for 4k, im checking every osu!mania player and their only tops are 7k. that makes me sad because i cant learn 7k. it so damn hard.
Honestly, I fucking hate this. I literally click the keys right one TIME then it gives me 'miss', every fucking time. I want to quit this stupid game, at some point.
locked and unpinned. this is too old, outdated, and Tom94 is no longer lead this anymore.
if you still want to give your feedback, you can join the pp dev discord server here:
https://discord.gg/GFCNNg8bwk
if you still want to give your feedback, you can join the pp dev discord server here:
https://discord.gg/GFCNNg8bwk