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Performance Points feedback and suggestions (osu!mania)

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Tristan97
189 posts
Joined November 2013
Tristan97
I mean, as the mania community increases, we could see if eventually the BATs that are mania playres would make a case for making autoconverts not worth pp.

But there a a lot of things I think the osu!mania system could do to improve. I know this is the right place and it won't happen until we act, but for now, I feel as if waiting for the new keymodes to settle in is the best way to allow developments for the mode in general progress.

In the mean while, people should just continue to play the mode and map more ET difficultiesspreads.
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze
1) People ARE mapping ET spreads
2) Changes in PP system are inevitable and actually being worked on atm
3) We shouldn't have autoconverts giving pp at ANY stage of development
Tom94
osu!dev
750 posts
Joined August 2012
Topic Starter
Tom94
Per-mod highscores and thus pp are going to come. In fact they're already implemented and will be enabled as soon as the server is ready.
Tristan97
189 posts
Joined November 2013
Tristan97
Thanks for bothering to respond Tom94. So does that mean that ET players can have both the Identity Part 4 non-mod 7k map and the Identity Part 4 modded 8k map show in their top ranks, each earning separate pp?

Or is it just the maximum pp earned from the highest pp awarding play on a map, modded or not?
Tom94
osu!dev
750 posts
Joined August 2012
Topic Starter
Tom94

Tristan97 wrote:

Thanks for bothering to respond Tom94. So does that mean that ET players can have both the Identity Part 4 non-mod 7k map and the Identity Part 4 modded 8k map show in their top ranks, each earning separate pp?

Or is it just the maximum pp earned from the highest pp awarding play on a map, modded or not?
The original intention is to only allow each difficulty to only give pp once - in that case for the score giving the most. I can see why it might be more desirable to allow multiple pp gains from the same map due to different keymods basically being different maps. Such an exception could possibly be made.
Blocko
osu! Alumni
742 posts
Joined February 2014
Blocko
What about DT plays? Would they be separate plays as well?
Staiain
152 posts
Joined March 2009
Staiain
So this means the return of DT + pp then ?
Bobbias
1,447 posts
Joined March 2011
Bobbias

Blocko wrote:

What about DT plays? Would they be separate plays as well?
I'd say DT deserves to be separate more than xk mods on autoconverts.
Tristan97
189 posts
Joined November 2013
Tristan97

Bobbias wrote:

I'd say DT deserves to be separate more than xk mods on autoconverts.
I would agree with this
Tidek
1,571 posts
Joined March 2011
Tidek
What about HR?
Bobbias
1,447 posts
Joined March 2011
Bobbias

Tidek wrote:

What about HR?
I suppose HR might also deserve it... Although I'd say less than DT. With HR, if you're capable of getting a good score (let's say 98-100%) on something, it's not going to be that much harder. The HP drain increase is nearly meaningless at that point, and the OD increase likely won't make a very large impact on your accuracy, although it will at least have more of an effect than the increased HP drain.
Tom94
osu!dev
750 posts
Joined August 2012
Topic Starter
Tom94

Staiain wrote:

So this means the return of DT + pp then ?
DT would start giving a pp bonus again, yes.


Blocko wrote:

What about DT plays? Would they be separate plays as well?
No. It's the same map, just faster. Of course both your DT and nomod scores would be stored, but you couldn't get pp for nomod AND for DT at the same time. You'd only get pp for whichever of the 2 scores gives more pp. Just to clarify: Scores with different mods would all get stored, but only your most giving pp score of these would count towards your total pp.

Keymods are the only ones with which you will possibly be able to get pp multiple times from the same map.
Tristan97
189 posts
Joined November 2013
Tristan97
Does this imply that things like country ranking and global ranking are going to decrease in relevancy due to the fact that some players will only play maps on dt, making the score they receive not reflective of the no-mod score? Could this be solved by changing the ranking system to going by pp earned (or creating an entirely new ranking for supporters or similar)?
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze

Tristan97 wrote:

Does this imply that things like country ranking and global ranking are going to decrease in relevancy due to the fact that some players will only play maps on dt, making the score they receive not reflective of the no-mod score? Could this be solved by changing the ranking system to going by pp earned (or creating an entirely new ranking for supporters or similar)?
I imagine this will be too complicated to implement, so nah.
btw we could totally have hr back as ranked mod
Tokiiwa
102 posts
Joined February 2014
Tokiiwa
mod pp hype
Tidek
1,571 posts
Joined March 2011
Tidek
The main problem is that no1 will care about scoreboard on map when it will be implement. (unless DT will increase max possible points to for example 1,12mln but thats not going to happen i guess)
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze
You can just get a nomod highscore for places and dt score for pp, I see no problem here.
Also nobody really cares about scoreboard if they farm pp, it's just an addition
JimJoy
9 posts
Joined July 2012
JimJoy
but isnt pp calculated only for passes with highest score?
Frustration
57 posts
Joined September 2013
Frustration

JimJoy wrote:

but isnt pp calculated only for passes with highest score?
Looks like not in this case

Tom94 wrote:

Just to clarify: Scores with different mods would all get stored, but only your most giving pp score of these would count towards your total pp.
Also, I'd like to ask if there is any ETA about the new DT pp calculations going live
Halogen-
Former osu!mania 4K Champion: 2015
574 posts
Joined September 2009
Halogen-

Tom94 wrote:

Just to clarify: Scores with different mods would all get stored, but only your most giving pp score of these would count towards your total pp.

Keymods are the only ones with which you will possibly be able to get pp multiple times from the same map.
Requesting additional clarification for the first part of this post: I understand the part about all scores getting stored and the highest PP score of them count, but are the leaderboards exclusive from the performance point calculation?

What I mean is this: if someone were to get 1000 MAX and 20 300s on a song and have that score recorded, and then played the same song and got 980 MAX and 40 300s (improbable but possible on easier songs), would the first score be the one to show up on the leaderboards since it is a higher score?

As an aside, I'm slowly getting back into osu! again and I apologize if this question comes across as stupid.
Staiain
152 posts
Joined March 2009
Staiain
I'm actually curious if a 90 - 95 % score on DT will be worth more than 98 - 100% score nomod PP wise, if it is imagine the potential to start DT'ing 4 - 5 star maps 8-)
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze
@Halogen
This will basically mean that if you have that 1000xMAX 20x300 score on leaderboards and let's say it gives 150pp, and then you'll score 950xMAX 70x300 score with DT that would give 200 pp, the first score is counted towards your positions on map ranking (since it has higher score) and second one is counted towards your pp (since it gives more)
Hope that explains it D:
Staiain
152 posts
Joined March 2009
Staiain
sorry for almost double posting but, will the PP gain scale with the star diffuculty, like if a map is 6* on DT, will it give the same amount as a 6* map nomod?
Fullerene-
550 posts
Joined April 2013
Fullerene-

Staiain wrote:

sorry for almost double posting but, will the PP gain scale with the star diffuculty, like if a map is 6* on DT, will it give the same amount as a 6* map nomod?
This is the case for other modes I think, so I'd assume so.
Halogen-
Former osu!mania 4K Champion: 2015
574 posts
Joined September 2009
Halogen-

-Kamikaze- wrote:

@Halogen
This will basically mean that if you have that 1000xMAX 20x300 score on leaderboards and let's say it gives 150pp, and then you'll score 950xMAX 70x300 score with DT that would give 200 pp, the first score is counted towards your positions on map ranking (since it has higher score) and second one is counted towards your pp (since it gives more)
Hope that explains it D:
That does, thanks!
Sepha
6 posts
Joined May 2013
Sepha
Not sure if this has already been explained but here goes:
So i download a ranked beatmap and first play ever get 57pp weighted at 24%, it says i should get 14pp, which is fair enough. I look and i only have 1pp added to my total, regardless of how long i wait for it to update. Can someone explain why this is?
Full Tablet
2,542 posts
Joined September 2011
Full Tablet

SolidGuy wrote:

Not sure if this has already been explained but here goes:
So i download a ranked beatmap and first play ever get 57pp weighted at 24%, it says i should get 14pp, which is fair enough. I look and i only have 1pp added to my total, regardless of how long i wait for it to update. Can someone explain why this is?
When you got that score with 57pp, all scores you have got that are worth less than 57pp reduced their weighting in 5% (reducing the amount of pp they give).
Tristan97
189 posts
Joined November 2013
Tristan97
So I know this may have already been discussed to an extent, but if the different keymodes are suppossed to be treated as different modes, then why are there not separate rankings for each keymode? That would help solve a lot of discrepancies with rankings and such.
Staiain
152 posts
Joined March 2009
Staiain
The hype continues, waiting for server implementation :')
Nanatsu
1,138 posts
Joined June 2013
Nanatsu
PLZ INCLUDE RANDOM MODE RANK SCORE TOO
MAAAAAAAAAAAAAS
MAAAAAAAAAAAAAS
DT nooooooooooooo

So terrible...
PyaKura
2,084 posts
Joined January 2013
PyaKura

_S u w a k o_ wrote:

PLZ INCLUDE RANDOM MODE RANK SCORE TOO
How would you make it work with everyone playing the same map with different patterns everytime ? :c
Kamikaze
2,898 posts
Joined November 2012
Kamikaze
I'm against random being ranked, because it messes up mapper's work too much. It changes patterns that are supossed to be tricky into just random placed which makes it easier (not in all cases obv). I would love to see mirror mod ranked though, it would be perfect for 2p players and on one-hand bias maps
Halogen-
Former osu!mania 4K Champion: 2015
574 posts
Joined September 2009
Halogen-

Tristan97 wrote:

So I know this may have already been discussed to an extent, but if the different keymodes are suppossed to be treated as different modes, then why are there not separate rankings for each keymode? That would help solve a lot of discrepancies with rankings and such.
I've wondered this myself. It seems like there's still some merit in valuing higher keymodes, but I don't understand why.

_S u w a k o_ wrote:

PLZ INCLUDE RANDOM MODE RANK SCORE TOO
Random is something that absolutely should never be ranked. Pattern deviations can cause one person's attempt at a map to be easier than someone else's. That kind of deviation has no place in ranking.
Nanatsu
1,138 posts
Joined June 2013
Nanatsu
if u guys thinks about fair, i think mirror mode would be fit and reasonable.

and the mirror is exist in hardrock mode. ( even they don't use it for mirror pattern )
Mwallx
222 posts
Joined April 2014
Mwallx
Umm... Saw this thread casually.
I don't know much about other things but my opinion is that autoconvert must be unrankable.
As a player for years I can say that at least 95% autoconvert is not qualifyied to be rankable.
And about score,I think it's necessary to intensify the condition of combo.I met uncountable times
that situations like I was 96% 1 miss being beaten by 98% 30miss. It's just ridiculous.
Thanks for reading ._.
PyaKura
2,084 posts
Joined January 2013
PyaKura
Scoring system is set in stone now, there's no way they're gonna change it. As for autoconverts this has been said and repeated again and again but they somehow want to keep them ranked >.>
Shoegazer
osu!mania Paragon
528 posts
Joined April 2013
Shoegazer
The only legitimate type of "random" mod should be mirror in my opinion, as the hand bias levels would be the same, just switched onto different hands. Using any other deviation of patterns would make the file's patterns too different from the original to really be compared legitimately. Little off-topic, but why isn't there a Mirror option for o!m anyway? Feels a little odd to have a random mod but not mirror.

also DT PP hype
Staiain
152 posts
Joined March 2009
Staiain
Any news on the DT PP front?
EtienneXC
Former osu!mania 4K Champion: 2015
115 posts
Joined January 2015
EtienneXC

Staiain wrote:

Any news on the DT PP front?
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