i just lost about 70pp but not rank at all, there is a new change?

I wonder how is your overall accuracy calculated?
It kept changing even thought I didn't rank any maps,
does it only counts your top 100 plays or so in the pp list..?

If it's anything like ppv1 accuracy, it's weighted by your top performances (so your #1 top performance score has the highest impact on your accuracy and so on)

Luna wrote:

If it's anything like ppv1 accuracy, it's weighted by your top performances (so your #1 top performance score has the highest impact on your accuracy and so on)

Yup, that's exactly how it's done. Your accuracy is the weighted average of your scores' accuracies by the respective "Weighting" shown in your Top Ranks profile section.

‎

Losing 2 pp cuz 0.09 of acc? imo fc need to weight more than acc without combo

WemadeFOX-solo wrote:

Losing 2 pp cuz 0.09 of acc? imo fc need to weight more than acc without combo

Its a rhythm games. Putting more focus on accuracy makes perfect sense. Combo is just a number.
But I do agree that it is currently a BIT strict still.

Dolphin wrote:

WemadeFOX-solo wrote:

Losing 2 pp cuz 0.09 of acc? imo fc need to weight more than acc without combo

Its a rhythm games. Putting more focus on accuracy makes perfect sense. Combo is just a number.
But I do agree that it is currently a BIT strict still.

it shouldn't when the highest combo you got, the highest score you receive ... that's somewhat rewarding your combo with score, shouldn't be the same with pp?

runs

seicHmsc wrote:

Dolphin wrote:

Its a rhythm games. Putting more focus on accuracy makes perfect sense. Combo is just a number.
But I do agree that it is currently a BIT strict still.

it shouldn't when the highest combo you got, the highest score you receive ... that's somewhat rewarding your combo with score, shouldn't be the same with pp?

runs

It's not quite an absolute truth, but I do mostly agree with this. Accuracy isn't worth more than combo until at least 97%, especially in this mode where, while our combo multiplier isn't multiplicative unto infinity, our timing is pretty strict and hitting 100x on some patterns can actually be the same as missing. Accuracy being extremely weighted like that kind of caters it to the top players who are doing SSes, while being non-intuitive to the middle players who can get way better accuracy but a lower score, and as a result doesn't count for pp. Losing pp because you did better is very disheartening.

Would there be any way to make the score that is counted for pp be the one the system considers you performed best on, rather than just being the one you make the best score on? I don't think this would affect the top of the ladder much, but would help tons around the middle where it's easily possible to invalidate a good performance.

i feel like missing is the worst you can do in a rhythm game, worse than pressing later or earlier

WemadeFOX-solo wrote:

i feel like missing is the worst you can do in a rhythm game, worse than pressing later or earlier

Yes, imo it's better to press a note late rather than miss it completely, in terms of performance (like for example, playing a piano), the latter mistake is really obvious.

I agree with you when it's just about a 1:1 ratio (1 miss is worse than one mistimed note), but that's how the system already works.
The example you gave is (if I calculated correctly) 1 miss vs. 3 mistimed notes on OD5 (so they are off by quite a lot). I'd still agree that the miss is worse in this case, but it's getting a lot closer.
If you read through the last couple of posts again, you will see that we already asked for an increased miss punishment; so once Tom has time to actually implement that, your example scores should probably look better (FC giving more than the other score). Just don't expect to beat scores with way superior accuracy just because you didn't miss.

no, 1 miss worth 0% and 1 mistimed worth 50% of acc, so 1 miss is equal 2 mistimed notes. if u hit 4 x300 and 1 miss is the same if u hit 3x300 and 2x100.

I dunno, missing is completely losing the melody and the rhythm, i think missed need to be more punished than x100 but i dont know if its is possible

So I just fc'd this with 0,57% worse accuracy than this but the second is my third top performance, while the first is weighted for 1%.

Is the length factor weighted that much? The first had 2 deathstreams while the second had a few shorter ones but even only at the end. Or was it the 0,57% accuracy?

Senpuu is rated almost 0.3 stars easier than the Miku song, that's a pretty big margin.
Although I'd agree that Senpuu is actually harder (but not by much).

Is HD still not weighted? Having two scores within 4 100's of each other on ExaVid, one with HR and one with HD, have a 30pp difference is a little... much in my opinion.

HD


vs

HR


vs

1x100 no-mod

^ that

Seems like a lot of bullshit in my humble opinion. HD doesnt seem to be weighted at all, or VEEERY little if so.

Dolphin wrote:

^ that

Seems like a lot of bullshit in my humble opinion. HD doesnt seem to be weighted at all, or VEEERY little if so.

HD is currently not factored in according to Tom o.o
would be nice if it could sooner

I would really like to say some things concerning this system, so that's what I am going to do. Be aware though, I have not read through all the 26 pages, so a lot of the stuff I am going to say might have already been said.

I've been playing Taiko for more than 3 years now and I believe I can say that I have gotten pretty good at it. I took a break lasting one and a half years, but my skill hasn't really decreased a lot. So I have been playing quite some maps recently and tried to play some old maps as well on which I haven't had an S yet. Does the pp score not affect maps that have been played before? E.g. I had a map with an A rank, let's say 5 miss and a bad accuracy and I got to play it again and get an S rank with HR on. Shouldn't that give me at least one point?

I played through at least 20 or 30 maps which got ranked during my abscence and I believe that I didn't get more than 5 points. Instead of reaching higher ranks in the Taiko ranking in general, I see my rank dropping as if I wouldn't play at all. Why? I don't get it, I really don't. How does getting several good ranks a day not give me any points?

And there is something else that is really confusing me: I see people around~#330 that just shouldn't be there. I am not trying to sound mean or arrogant, not at all, but when I compare myself having FC'ed Shinsekai, Chipscape, Freedom Dive, Mei and many more hard maps, then why are there people overtaking me who have trouble passing these songs?

I understand that a system showing the best people according to their skills is what you are trying to achieve and I honestly really like that idea, but it just doesn't seem to work all too well for Taiko. Is that still going to be changed or will I have to be satisfied with that?

Sorry for the long post. I hope no one feels offended, that was just my personal opinion.
Greetings.

the system isn't final, and the reason you're not getting ranks/pp for improving scores is that you have to make your score better than your best scores, or it won't be counted. this is to prevent pp farming

@Necro: I think it's just because the accuracy can affect the amount of PP by a lot.
For example, your Chipscape FC with 96.68 acc (basing that off your yourtube vid) is worth 259 pp.
For reference, kanopu's 99.02 acc no-mod FC of Chipscape got 291 pp.
A 100 acc no-mod FC of Chipscape is worth 307 pp.
If there was an update that 'nerfed' the worth of high accuracy, your rank would probably be a bit higher.

capeseverywhere wrote:

@Necro: I think it's just because the accuracy can affect the amount of PP by a lot.
For example, your Chipscape FC with 96.68 acc (basing that off your yourtube vid) is worth 259 pp.
For reference, kanopu's 99.02 acc no-mod FC of Chipscape got 291 pp.
A 100 acc no-mod FC of Chipscape is worth 307 pp.
If there was an update that 'nerfed' the worth of high accuracy, your rank would probably be a bit higher.

So how come a ranking based on the whole skill of a player is mostly being affected by only one of the many aspects Taiko exists of?

Necro Neko wrote:

capeseverywhere wrote:

@Necro: I think it's just because the accuracy can affect the amount of PP by a lot.
For example, your Chipscape FC with 96.68 acc (basing that off your yourtube vid) is worth 259 pp.
For reference, kanopu's 99.02 acc no-mod FC of Chipscape got 291 pp.
A 100 acc no-mod FC of Chipscape is worth 307 pp.
If there was an update that 'nerfed' the worth of high accuracy, your rank would probably be a bit higher.

So how come a ranking based on the whole skill of a playerl is mostly being affected by only one of the many aspects Taiko exists of?

After all its a rhythm game, accuracy should be one of the main aspect.
Although youre right with how some people have high rank while they dont have the skill for it.

Necro Neko wrote:

capeseverywhere wrote:

@Necro: I think it's just because the accuracy can affect the amount of PP by a lot.
For example, your Chipscape FC with 96.68 acc (basing that off your yourtube vid) is worth 259 pp.
For reference, kanopu's 99.02 acc no-mod FC of Chipscape got 291 pp.
A 100 acc no-mod FC of Chipscape is worth 307 pp.
If there was an update that 'nerfed' the worth of high accuracy, your rank would probably be a bit higher.

So how come a ranking based on the whole skill of a playerl is mostly being affected by only one of the many aspects Taiko exists of?

I don't think it's so much that it's mostly being affected by one aspect, but that ultimately accuracy is the most effective measure of a player's skill within a specific instance of a beatmap -- that is to say, if you're good at a given aspect of Taiko, then it follows you would have good accuracy in that aspect. This is especially relevant considering the Taiko has the least multiplicative combo-score relationship, allowing for the ability to actually realistically place higher scores without necessarily placing higher maximum combos.

I have also found that the difference between ranking B and ranking A is enormous, even if minimal improvement between the two scores occur. My third highest pp comes from Sakura Fumi - Realize at an A rank, which I took the accuracy from 92% to 96% and from B to A and it went from being weighted 0% to being weighted 90%. The difference between A and S appears to be worth a lot, as well, and presumably S and SS, as well.

@Neko Playing mediocre maps won't net you many pp, having fc on chipscape and shinsekai with <98% acc is not considered much as well. Try playing harder maps which are actually challenging to play.
vs
I have a much lower rank than you (438 vs 338) but my top 8 gives more pp than yours try some of my songs - you should get lotsa pp :3c

You should probably use DT/HR on some of them but you get the idea. Some of the maps are overvalued like Anthem tho.

EBAWER123 wrote:

@Neko Playing mediocre maps won't net you many pp, having fc on chipscape and shinsekai with <98% acc is not considered much as well. Try playing harder maps which are actually challenging to play.

SPOILER

vs

SPOILER

I have a much lower rank than you (438 vs 338) but my top 8 gives more pp than yours try some of my songs - you should get lotsa pp :3c

You should probably use DT/HR on some of them but you get the idea. Some of the maps are overvalued like Anthem tho.

First of all thanks a lot for the ideas and your advice.
I just played one of the songs you got 169pp with, namely "Border of Life". I got an S with HR mod turned on and an accuracy of 98,71% but still didn't get one single point. Why? I just don't understand.. q.q

You didn't get any pp because PP system has diminishing returns to prevent farming easy maps. For example playing 3 songs x 170pp won't give 3x much pp. Songs are weighted lower and lower with difficulty going lower and lower - that's why you get 100% for your hardest map and 98% for second... and so on. That's why by playing more songs closer to your top performance will increase your pp greatly while playing lots of easier ones close to 50%~ weighted maps won't give you much. You have many plays around 210 pp so while playing an even easier map won't give you much. On the other hand if you play more maps closer to your top - 250pp~ will give you an increase in pp.

I see, I think I understand now. Thanks.

^ You need to do performances between 265pp and 231pp to get a good amount of pp, with the new profile is really easy to stalk people to saw what to play....

So how much is a Convert weighted vs an actual taiko map?
Because it looks like a lot of people who farm pp get more out of converts than taiko maps.
For example: http://osu.ppy.sh/u/659959


Wow look someone can do 1/6 and 1/8 don spam. Lets give them 500+ pp on a map that wasn't even designed for this game mode.

Then from the same user:


Wow they FC'd something actually hard on taiko. But it wasn't as hard as a 1/6 or 1/8 don stream. Nahhhhhh.

Tom94 wrote:

I can wholeheartedly agree with you, that most of the converted maps are of horrible quality. However pp would be the wrong place to decide what should be ranked and what shouldn't. If converted maps should get improved, then - well - improve the conversion or get rid of the scoreboards. Making the ranking more inconsistent as it already is is definitely not a good idea.

Nobody stops people who prefer to play the quality ranked taiko maps from playing them. You will not be forced to play every single map with the new pp system. As with standard only your best scores will count a lot, and trust me, there are more than enough ranked taiko maps for achieving your pp peak.

Tom94 wrote:

I have a prototype running locally and will post results with various settings as soon as they're ready. Those steps are there exactly to ensure, that converted maps will _not_ be overrated.

And something else was said.
I don't mind it that much, but I'm still the opinion as many other people are, that converted maps have no place in pp since they aren't even designed for this game mode. I even forgot the reason for the addition of it since I never saw the sense for it at all. And the "making converts count less" didn't work that well as it seems; when considering MMzz example.
In my view, everything could be easier just by leaving converts out. *shrugs*

MMzz wrote:

So how much is a Convert weighted vs an actual taiko map?
Because it looks like a lot of people who farm pp get more out of converts than taiko maps.
For example: http://osu.ppy.sh/u/659959


Wow look someone can do 1/6 and 1/8 don spam. Lets give them 500+ pp on a map that wasn't even designed for this game mode.

Then from the same user:


Wow they FC'd something actually hard on taiko. But it wasn't as hard as a 1/6 or 1/8 don stream. Nahhhhhh.

This

MMzz wrote:

So how much is a Convert weighted vs an actual taiko map?
Because it looks like a lot of people who farm pp get more out of converts than taiko maps.
For example: http://osu.ppy.sh/u/659959


Wow look someone can do 1/6 and 1/8 don spam. Lets give them 500+ pp on a map that wasn't even designed for this game mode.

Then from the same user:


Wow they FC'd something actually hard on taiko. But it wasn't as hard as a 1/6 or 1/8 don stream. Nahhhhhh.

That's what I said during 10+ pages debate, but I gave up as some people didn't even considerate this opinion.

MMzz wrote:

So how much is a Convert weighted vs an actual taiko map?
Because it looks like a lot of people who farm pp get more out of converts than taiko maps.
For example: http://osu.ppy.sh/u/659959


Wow look someone can do 1/6 and 1/8 don spam. Lets give them 500+ pp on a map that wasn't even designed for this game mode.

I just wonder how much his PP will change if converted difficulties will "get nerfed" hard. Droppin' to 5k? >8D

Nashmun wrote:

MMzz wrote:

So how much is a Convert weighted vs an actual taiko map?
Because it looks like a lot of people who farm pp get more out of converts than taiko maps.
For example: http://osu.ppy.sh/u/659959


Wow look someone can do 1/6 and 1/8 don spam. Lets give them 500+ pp on a map that wasn't even designed for this game mode.

Then from the same user:


Wow they FC'd something actually hard on taiko. But it wasn't as hard as a 1/6 or 1/8 don stream. Nahhhhhh.

That's what I said during 10+ pages debate, but I gave up as some people didn't even considerate this opinion.

Well that's SOME people, usually we follow democracy on this shit, where the majority counts. We need to make sure the other part seem less vocal than our own.

'Some people' was actually including Tom (No offense intended, you did a great job with that new pp system, just pointing this out)

I also think that converted should really be removed of the pp system since 1/8 are weighted way too much.
"DoubleTime" is also weighted way too much imo and "Easy" mod looks like it doesn't affect at all the weighting of the maps.

You also should boost the weight of the patterns and HR on high OD imo (how kevin3333g can be ranked that low with all those perfect scores)

Here is how I see a better Taiko Ranking considering the actual one.

EDIT: Also, maps that have alot of repeating patterns like "Holy Orders : Sin" and "Closet Otaku" kdd kdd kdd kdd kdd etc... and ddk ddk ddk ddk ddk etc... seems to be weighted too much, is the system affected by this?

Nashmun wrote:

'Some people' was actually including Tom (No offense intended, you did a great job with that new pp system, just pointing this out)

Yeah I know, but I'm pretty sure we can convince him to think otherwise.

Dolphin wrote:

Yeah I know, but I'm pretty sure we can convince him to think otherwise.

I hit him with my taiko sticks unconscious. You put him into the drums and make him dissapear.

There aren't a lot of converts getting overrated like that, though. There's only a few spam maps getting over 400-500pp for people. So, now that we know which ones are getting 400-500pp for dumb reasons, wouldn't it be possible to group them together and figure out how to balance them with the other maps rather than getting rid of all of the converts?
From what I've seen, these specific ones seem to be causing the biggest problems.
StrangeProgram, Marisa, Mad Machine,Taihen na Mono no Shoushitsu, the stream compilation, and the other Marisa