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Performance Points feedback and suggestions (Catch the Beat)

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PakaChan

-iNSaNiX- wrote:

I create new thread with the idea: https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/340014

But i put here too:

First of all I have to say this is written with google translator, sorry for bad English.

The idea is put a system pp like the one osu!mania, it is odious that you have only one fault no longer obtain pp, then I propose to put a maximum of 1 million score in all songs of Catch the Beat mode, and mods they can not climb score but if they can raise more pp if you have nice score with mod (hard rock, hidden...)

And in the ranking can be overcome people using mods, per example:

1-ExGon 1.000.000 score (Hard Rock)
2-Dusk 1.000.000 score (He has not used any mod)

or also it:

1-ExGon 1.000.000 score (Hard Rock, Hidden)
2-Dusk 1.000.000 score (Hard Rock)
3-Spectator 1.000.000 score (Hard Rock)
4-CLSW 1.000.000 score (Hidden)

Depending on the difficulty of the mod positions up

And for get 1.000.000 score you need 100% accuracy (obviously)
So nomod SS > 1x droplet miss HDDTHRFL ?
The way score works is realy unlikely to change now, it's been said in multiple post.
Dianthus

-iNSaNiX- wrote:

I create new thread with the idea: https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/340014

But i put here too:

First of all I have to say this is written with google translator, sorry for bad English.

The idea is put a system pp like the one osu!mania, it is odious that you have only one fault no longer obtain pp, then I propose to put a maximum of 1 million score in all songs of Catch the Beat mode, and mods they can not climb score but if they can raise more pp if you have nice score with mod (hard rock, hidden...)

And in the ranking can be overcome people using mods, per example:

1-ExGon 1.000.000 score (Hard Rock)
2-Dusk 1.000.000 score (He has not used any mod)

or also it:

1-ExGon 1.000.000 score (Hard Rock, Hidden)
2-Dusk 1.000.000 score (Hard Rock)
3-Spectator 1.000.000 score (Hard Rock)
4-CLSW 1.000.000 score (Hidden)

Depending on the difficulty of the mod positions up

And for get 1.000.000 score you need 100% accuracy (obviously)
This idea would kill bananas.

Speaking of bananas, I know this isn't the right place, but still I want to ask this random question. Why isn't the banana count shown in the score screen after a game? It shows fruits caught, droplets caught, big combo-giving droplets caught, fruits missed, but doesn't show bananas caught. Weird, if you ask me.
Ibuki Mioda

Hedgeturtle wrote:

Speaking of bananas, I know this isn't the right place, but still I want to ask this random question. Why isn't the banana count shown in the score screen after a game? It shows fruits caught, droplets caught, big combo-giving droplets caught, fruits missed, but doesn't show bananas caught. Weird, if you ask me.
:) the bananas are actually spinners so they just function as bonus points, the full amount of possible seems to be only done by auto.
Zak

Hedgeturtle wrote:

Speaking of bananas, I know this isn't the right place, but still I want to ask this random question. Why isn't the banana count shown in the score screen after a game? It shows fruits caught, droplets caught, big combo-giving droplets caught, fruits missed, but doesn't show bananas caught. Weird, if you ask me.
Since you didn't get a reply to the actual question, it should be implemented someday, as I'm sure osu! can easily calculate the amount you caught correctly (even though replays are sometimes a bit off showing you catching more). There is a feature request thread for it as well with lots of support, so I'd say just keep waiting and it should finally happen eventually.
- AlmaFuerte -
ppv2 rip farmers, ppv3 soon
Zak

[Hakurei-Miko] wrote:

ppv2 rip farmers, ppv3 soon
Says who?
DxNightwave
Welcome to the pp Fields
lineqtxz
ppv3 ayy lmao
maybe in 2 or 3 years xD
Kingkevin30

lineqtxz wrote:

ppv3 ayy lmao
maybe in 2 or 3 years xD
I'm already calling the system we have right now ppv3, since the "Fix" ppv2 had made it pretty much gave it a whole new valuation
Seph
I have a way of enjoying the game even if I don't play it anymore myself.

Watch Zak suffer with 1 miss plays.
iiyo
how is this ppv2? ppv1 = sey's platter.. maware etc ppv2 go berzerk land ppv3 today
Vespa1979

CLSW wrote:

It would be impossible to remove pp ranking system on ctb :P
Guys, think it to better way, don't give up. We still don't know if new system will beloved?


I agree... :)
Play for fun every maps and don't give up ....
Enjoy! :)
Axiaan
Fun > pps.
Pps are just a number, fun is a sentiment.
Why people prefer a number as a sentiment ?

(If you say : why you say that, you're a farmer, you've 5000SS+ --> I like farm, so I have fun when I play. ^w^)

And I'm #730 now, but my skill is for a #900 guy. I can't play mods and better as people around my rank, so the pps system is good, but it doesn't show the real skill of the player.
I'm sure, a #150 can be better as a #80, and there +700pp of difference of actual #80 and #150. x)
Laharl
Someone's ego is stronger than its not-working brain.
PakaChan
Please make ctb specific maps give 0pp ty
Zak
Why not just make everything give 0pp except for Bill Nye The Science Guy
Dianthus

Zak wrote:

Why not just make everything give 0pp except for Bill Nye The Science Guy
No need to remove pp, some people find it fun to see their pp get higher. If you don't then you don't have to pay any attention to it.

PakaChan wrote:

Please make ctb specific maps give 0pp ty
I think that's a bit of an overkill, they should just nerf the slider stream pp (void feat. Komatsuna - Akatsuki no Tsuki). Some CTB specific maps give quite fair amount of pp, imo LeaF - Calamity Fortune, Warak - Reanimate, CLIFF EDGE - Endless Tears ft. Nakamura Maiko and Mutsuhiko Izumi - Snow Goose are quite good.
Vespa1979

-PM- wrote:



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



FL ....!!! WOW
lineqtxz


difficulty reduction...
eldnl
malo culiao
Rockageek

PakaChan wrote:

Please make ctb specific maps give 0pp ty
I follow this way of thinking, imo the actual pp system is so wrong and new ctb maps are abusing of it.
TAG4 diffs doesn't give enough pp for example :')

Seriously, it's not because there is alot of hyperdashes that the map is hard.
Full HDash map -> over 5 stars
NoHdash map full of technical shitpatterns -> under 4 stars (I wanna say less than 3.5 but there is exceptions).

Of course the second map is way harder and gives way less, even if you SS FL or HD HR etc...

Tom94 maybe doesn't care at all.
He should create a poll or ask alot of pro players about all of this to correctly scale a new pp system for ctb that would be much less broken than this one.
Granger
Id wager its the same issue as with standard, the difficulty system does not account for patterns, only how far the notes are apart from each other, both in time and placement.
Seph

ShyeartFanGirl wrote:

Tom94 maybe doesn't care at all.
It's not that he doesn't care, he's busy and CtB is pretty much low priority for him (I think, compared to other gamemodes) since technically we have a better star system than taiko and o!m
serenity_P
PPV2 is s**t .I agree that PPV3 is much better than PPV2,but it disleads new CTB players .

Why do I say this word? We should change a view to look out this mode. CTB hard maps are based on insane patterns rather than jump jump without any skills. If you want to make a really CTB map, you can use jumps but jumps should be solved irregularly(such as Highscore Rainbow dash Arousing[ HW's Extra] and etc )

I highlight a word :JUMP. Yeah , many big-distance jumps look really cool and they are considered as very hard parts for new ctb players,especially red fruits in 2015 CTB maps.New CTB players insist that CTB maps need very very high skills because they can't catch red fruits at the beginning( including us )an the PP system prefers to new CTB maps . that is a wrong way to lead a new CTB player to join us. New CTB maps are good for new players to quickly improve thier skills , but they(New CTB maps) should not be attracted too much.

FL mod should be rewarded more pp. HD for high stars maps should be increased PP a little rather than decrease. Std maps should be improved stars and they are really hard. I don't think a 388PP ctb map is harder than Math Class [TAG4].

Finally, stars system of some maps with only 1-2 hard parts shoul be fixed(such as End Time [fear] and etc).

Overall,the correct difficulty is based on patterns.

Hamburgers are really delicious without any nutrition , a glass of water is not tasty but healthy.

Do you agree me?
Equim

serenity_P wrote:

PPV2 is s**t .I agree that PPV3 is much better than PPV2,but it disleads new CTB players .

Why do I say this word? We should change a view to look out this mode. CTB hard maps are based on insane patterns rather than jump jump without any skills. If you want to make a really CTB map, you can use jumps but jumps should be solved irregularly(such as Highscore Rainbow dash Arousing[ HW's Extra] and etc )

I highlight a word :JUMP. Yeah , many big-distance jumps look really cool and they are considered as very hard parts for new ctb players,especially red fruits in 2015 CTB maps.New CTB players insist that CTB maps need very very high skills because they can't catch red fruits at the beginning( including us )an the PP system prefers to new CTB maps . that is a wrong way to lead a new CTB player to join us. New CTB maps are good for new players to quickly improve thier skills , but they(New CTB maps) should not be attracted too much.

FL mod should be rewarded more pp. HD for high stars maps should be increased PP a little rather than decrease. Std maps should be improved stars and they are really hard. I don't think a 388PP ctb map is harder than Math Class [TAG4].

Finally, stars system of some maps with only 1-2 hard parts shoul be fixed(such as End Time [fear] and etc).

Overall,the correct difficulty is based on patterns.

Hamburgers are really delicious without any nutrition , a glass of water is not tasty but healthy.

Do you agree me?
Partially. But tentatively as a ctb mapper/modder I can tell you that jumps as you said "irregularly" are still experimental, and ctb stream mapping is also so hard to be creative that only one or two ctb mappers can handle this. It's easy to SAY, but it's hard to DO.

Remember, everyone has his own way to enjoy this game. Some enjoy jumps, while some enjoy patherns like you; some enjoy pp, while some don't. While I was a beginner I did enjoy hyperdashes which I thought were cool, and I tried my best to do well in them. Anyways you need to respect to the diversity.

Also, whether you love pp or hate, it's always that you care pp. I suggest you don't always judge a ctb specific map according to pp, since in this way you are likely to ignore what painstaking care the mapper pay in the map. In this point of view I can't agree more with Spectator (see his ask http://ask.fm/Spectat0r/answer/128855444064 and http://ask.fm/Spectat0r/answer/128938149472). In addition, sooner or later the pp arithmetic system will changed, but the quality of a map will still remain.
He Ang CTB
First of all I would like to thank Tom for putting in effort to make a change to the CTB pp system to begin with even though there are rooms for major improvement.

Here's how I dissect the problem with pp: (Umineko style :3)

Red statement: Core conclusion
Blue statement: Sub conclusion
Gold statement: Final conclusion

1. A good pp system is where the system credits map purely dependent on difficulty, and scale the rewards in pp proportionately. In other words, a more difficult map should always get more pp than an easier map no matter what, and ideally if Map A is twice as hard as Map B it shall reward twice as much of pp, or whichever proportion that is most fit be it purely multiple or logarithmic or exponential. I don't think anyone disagrees on this point.
Conclusion (1): Harder map = more pp

2. CTB is absolutely timing based just like Taiko and Mania. Unlike say Osu!Standard, where clicking on time (rhythm ---> time accuracy) and clicking at the right place (aim ---> spacial/positional accuracy) are two separate parameters. Having either variable heavily compromised will result in a miss no matter how good the other variable is being mastered. E.g. a perfectly timed click at a completely wrong place will always be a miss, a perfectly positioned click at a completely wrong timing will always be a miss as well. However for CTB, if one pressed the keys perfectly in time, one will never miss no matter what. That's because the platter moves at a fixed speed, and all combos unreachable with that speed will be caught with a hyperdash. Therefore the only parameter that affects CTB gameplay is the timing where the keys are being pressed (and held on to).
Conclusion (2): Timing = Everything in CTB

3. Since timing is the only affecting factor for CTB, then the more stringent the timing window the more difficult the map is to FC, therefore, is harder and deserves more pp.
Conclusion (3): Less forgiving timing window = More difficult = More pp

Mapping factors that affects timing/difficulty:

4. An AR too high requires great reaction speed, therefore can cause delay in a player's timing in pressing the keys correctly.
Conclusion (4): Extremely high AR deserves more pp.

5. An AR too low confuses the player as the platter becomes "slippery" (moves way too fast as compared to the dropping fruits), the fruits are harder to read and timings are harder to judge.
Conclusion (5): Extremely low AR deserves more pp.

6. High HP drains doesn't affect the key-press timing at all, but it multiplies the consequences of not being able to keep in time, which is to entirely fail the map.
Conclusion (6): Higher HP deserves more pp.

7. High CS makes the fruit hit-circle smaller, thus there is less room for mistake in terms of the position of the platter, since position of the platter is absolutely controlled by the timings of the keys pressed, the higher the CS the smaller the error in key-press timing there can be. Therefore a very high CS is very difficult.
Conclusion (7): Higher CS deserves more pp.

8. OD in all other modes: E.g. AT OD10 if you hit the object more/less than 15ms in timing you miss, that applies for every combo. For OD9 may be 20ms.
OD in CTB: Pattern A requires player to just move left by 3 platter length and you are given 5 seconds to do so. And then 3 more seconds to move right 1 platter length away. Easy. Pattern B requires player to move left right left right consecutively 20 times with 10ms of error window for each combo. Hard. Other modes use Meter OD, which is a fixed timing window exactly the same for every combo, that is invariable. CTB uses Pattern OD, which is dependent on how much room for timing error to successfully get from one combo to another, which varies with different combos. Meter OD has no effect on difficult, while Pattern OD affects difficulty. The harder the pattern, the less forgiving the timing, the more difficult the map becomes.
Conclusion (8): Harder pattern = less room for timing error.
Conclusion (9): Harder pattern deserves more pp.

9. Longer maps require a player to consistently hit the timing window despite the long duration, it requires more timing accuracy as compared to if the map was shorted. Thus more difficult.
Conclusion (10): Longer maps deserve more pp.

Clearly from the explanation above you can see which factor affects the gameplay difficulty the most, at I will list it as my final conclusion.
Conclusion (11): Arranged in order of greater pp emphasis: Pattern OD > CS > AR (high/low) > HP > Meter OD = 0

Of course there are a lot more questions left unanswered by my conclusions.
1. What is consider too high/too low AR?
2. Is AR difficulty more subjective or objective?
3. Which are the patterns that are less forgiving?
4. Since every combo has different timing error window, how does one accurately account for the overall difficulty of a map containing thousands of combos?
5. I find low CS as hard to read as high CS, is that not a valid point?
6. What is the easiest CS/AR to benchmark on?
7. How does modifiers (mods) affect the above mentioned parameters?
8. How does spinners and droplets play a part in the pp system?
9. So many things to change so much work to be done, is that even possible?
10. Is it worth the effort to strive for a perfect pp system?
11. Is difficulty overall a subjective matter of pure human experience, or is it simply a matter of neurology mathematics and physics, or maybe both?
12. Should we scale elements that are or potentially could be subjective as objective pp?
13. WTF were you talking about the whole time, were you smoking weed?
And many more questions. Which I hope we can discuss in an mature and constructive manner in the future.
autofanboy
Not really agree that a high HP would award more pp.

If the player can full combo the map, the HP is not useful, and so he/she can still get the same amount of pp. So making HP as a measurement of pp amount, won't affect the system basically, maybe it is just more tolerable to the new players.
Axiaan
I agree for all you said, except for one point :

He Ang Erika wrote:

5. An AR too low confuses the player as the platter becomes "slippery" (moves way too fast as compared to the dropping fruits), the fruits are harder to read and timings are harder to judge.
I disagree with that, it's maybe hard for some players to read low AR (for me, low AR is under 6) but that's the same with players who can't play with high AR, (above 9.5) it's hard for them.
I think, with the AR you want, if you know the song, you can clear it.
I know, EZ and HT mods are never used because it earn not a lot of pps, but (it's MY opinion) it's normal : it's low, so we are able to play it more easily as high AR, or we can see where the fruit will fall, unlike with high AR.
I know some people who can play "easily" with an AR under 6 (for exemple, I can play with AR0/AR1) so I don't think it's a problem.
And imagine, a lot of players plays Renard - Banned Forever [Nogard] with EZFL mod, and they earn (if SS) 305pp. 305pp with EZ mod, imagine if it earn more pps ? +400pp for an easy song with EZ mod ? That's unfair.
Same for beatMARIO - Night of Knights [TAG4] with EZFL mod, they earn 311pp for that. 311pp with EZ mod, I think it's a lot, even if the map is a little bit hard, above 300pp with EZ mod is too much.
(thanks to Emiru for the pps scores, haha)

EZ mod is maybe hard in Osu!Standard mode, but in Osu!CatchTheBeat, it's "pretty" easy. I don't think it need an upgrade.

And for the end, I answer to yours questions, quickly :

He Ang Erika wrote:

1. What is consider too high/too low AR? I think low = under 6, and high = above 9.5.
2. Is AR difficulty more subjective or objective? Subjecive.
3. Which are the patterns that are less forgiving? CLSW and Spectator patterns, they're pretty easy. (but all are really good map, enjoy them !)
4. Since every combo has different timing error window, how does one accurately account for the overall difficulty of a map containing thousands of combos? I don't understand your question.. xD
5. I find low CS as hard to read as high CS, is that not a valid point? Low CS is pretty easy, above CS6 it's hard I think.
6. What is the easiest CS/AR to benchmark on? AR8/9 and CS3/4.
7. How does modifiers (mods) affect the above mentioned parameters? If low AR, HD give more.
8. How does spinners and droplets play a part in the pp system? I don't think it's good, in Osu!Standard, it give not more pps if you spin faster as an other player.
9. So many things to change so much work to be done, is that even possible? Maybe ?
10. Is it worth the effort to strive for a perfect pp system? It will be great, like that real good player will go to the top 100 easily, and not the pp farmer.
11. Is difficulty overall a subjective matter of pure human experience, or is it simply a matter of neurology mathematics and physics, or maybe both? Pure human experience I think.
12. Should we scale elements that are or potentially could be subjective as objective pp? Yes.
13. WTF were you talking about the whole time, were you smoking weed? Yes. 8)
And many more questions. Which I hope we can discuss in an mature and constructive manner in the future.

rrtyui wrote:

plz enjoy game
He Ang CTB
Thanks AFB & Axiaan for the constructive feedback XD

@AFB I think as for HP it deters people from playing certain map D: For example I won't play Big Black because I know I will fail badly, but if it has super low HP I would probably have made an record on it D: Also I can think of it this way: If a song only allow maximum of 1 miss to pass, it has a lot more timing accuracy required as compared to a song that can tolerate 20 misses in a row. Therefore the benchmark on timing is higher, therefore more difficult and thus deserve more pp (slightly). It's like a test that initially can pass by getting 50/100 marks, now the requirement is to get 95/100 to pass, the test is certainly tougher even though nothing about the questions themselves changed a single bit, but those who can pass the second test requirement should ultimately be credited more than those who can pass the first test requirement, that's how I saw it. Of course if you can get 100/100 the passing mark means nothing, but having high benchmark sure filtered out many people who are just not up to standard yet. Still I agree that HP should play the least importance in pp calculation as stated by you :3

@Axiaan Well EZ is actually VERY difficult for me D: In fact more than half of the time I can clock more score on AR10 than AR5 doubled OTL For the given example of Banned Forever I can get 700+ combos on it till the cancer part but can't even pass 100+ combo on EZ DT *dies* But I recognise your point that low AR might not be as difficult as high AR in many scenarios as well. Like when I just began as a new CTB players I could do AR5 HD like I'm the king of low AR, but those were nothing compared to things like Airman. I guess I just grew out of it and have gotten used to much faster ARs :C I guess it's just up to the individuals then D:

Also I added the point on my original post about long maps and why longer maps deserve more pp C:
PakaChan

He Ang Erika wrote:

8. OD in all other modes: E.g. AT OD10 if you hit the object more/less than 15ms in timing you miss, that applies for every combo. For OD9 may be 20ms.
OD in CTB: Pattern A requires player to just move left by 3 platter length and you are given 5 seconds to do so. And then 3 more seconds to move right 1 platter length away. Easy. Pattern B requires player to move left right left right consecutively 20 times with 10ms of error window for each combo. Hard. Other modes use Meter OD, which is a fixed timing window exactly the same for every combo, that is invariable. CTB uses Pattern OD, which is dependent on how much room for timing error to successfully get from one combo to another, which varies with different combos. Meter OD has no effect on difficult, while Pattern OD affects difficulty. The harder the pattern, the less forgiving the timing, the more difficult the map becomes.
Conclusion (8): Harder pattern = less room for timing error.
Conclusion (9): Harder pattern deserves more pp.
I don't think it would work like that, rapid direction changes which is mostly what gives pp in this system: hypers are what need the most movement in the least amount of time.

Rather than a hyper nerf or buff, i propose a non-hyper buff, a non-hyper jump seems to be harder the closer it is to being a hyper but once it's a hyper it's easy. Bonus points if you just come out of a hyper before this. Exgon agrees (kinda): http://ask.fm/ExGon/answer/121910772785
Graph
(numbers aren't very accurate and are there just to give the basic idea)

Aside from that, i see a lot of people saying that EZ should be nerfed but really, the only map that seems like an issue is banned forever which isn't exactly an EZ-issue but rather the algorithm thinking the hell-ish pattern can't be done without standing still. Fix that part of the algorithm and ez will be fair. EZDT on high cs already gives less pp than nomod, as for low cs, i think ezdt is harder.

Of course there are a lot more questions left unanswered by my conclusions.
1. What is consider too high/too low AR?
2. Is AR difficulty more subjective or objective?
3. Which are the patterns that are less forgiving?
4. Since every combo has different timing error window, how does one accurately account for the overall difficulty of a map containing thousands of combos?
5. I find low CS as hard to read as high CS, is that not a valid point?
6. What is the easiest CS/AR to benchmark on?
7. How does modifiers (mods) affect the above mentioned parameters?
8. How does spinners and droplets play a part in the pp system?
9. So many things to change so much work to be done, is that even possible?
10. Is it worth the effort to strive for a perfect pp system?
11. Is difficulty overall a subjective matter of pure human experience, or is it simply a matter of neurology mathematics and physics, or maybe both?
12. Should we scale elements that are or potentially could be subjective as objective pp?
13. WTF were you talking about the whole time, were you smoking weed?
1. I don't think there's a too low or too high AR. I think it all depends on the object density of the map (especially for lower ones). AR9 may be good for ~200bpm, AR10 FOR 300bpm.
2. Subjective. Everyone will find AR they aren't comfortable hard.
3. Emphasis on "patterns". Pattern detection is a huge problem in standard and it will be. Tom attempted to detect neu-like patterns which made stuff like banned forever EZ rated so highly. There's a ton of patterns that you'd have to detect but i guess the most common ones are stairs.
6. Depends on the map.
7. Right now, for HR: the algorithm simply recalculates the entire map as if it's a new difficulty. HD bonus seems fine, maybe needs a buff for high cs. Not sure how DT works or how it's supposed to work.
8. Spinners do not and should not affect pp. Droplets only seem to be a real issue on shorter maps. The thing about making droplets worth a lot is the fact that you could SS a map you have 97% acc on but not outspin yourself which can be frustrating
9.One at a time.
Zak
I think the HD bonus should decrease slower while going higher than AR9, at AR9 the bonus is around 12% and then once it's at AR10 it's only 5% which is way too low, a lot of people can use the argument that HD is easier to read at that AR but it doesn't mean the map itself becomes easier to play, it will still be harder and deserves a bit more of an increase in pp, I'd say maybe 8~9%, 5% is practically non-existant.
CelegaS
I'm so bad with hd i should have +50% pp bonus.
Zak
Can we keep the discussion serious please.
Dianthus
Agree with Paka on non-hyper hard jumps. These are really underrated.
Rilene
As what Paka said, a normal dash which is just on a borderline from being a hyperdash is very hard and requires a sharp reaction time.

Mostly from converts like Hollow Wings' Sentimental Skyscraper and Alumetorz's furioso melodia which had alot of that type of dashes, which is very underrated.
Zak
Yeah, there should probably be some specific values set onto them, to where most average jumps still won't give much but near pixel jumps will, especially consecutive ones or back and forth jumps with hypers and normal jumps mixed together, those get particularly nasty.
CelegaS

Axiaan wrote:

He Ang Erika wrote:

5. An AR too low confuses the player as the platter becomes "slippery" (moves way too fast as compared to the dropping fruits), the fruits are harder to read and timings are harder to judge.
I disagree with that, it's maybe hard for some players to read low AR (for me, low AR is under 6) but that's the same with players who can't play with high AR, (above 9.5) it's hard for them.
I agree with He Ang Erika, for high ar it's a different thing. It's more about time reaction and guessing pattern/be familiar with them, that's my feeling. For low ar with high bpm it's really difficult to judge timing between fruits by reading.


Pixel jump was nerfed a little but they are missed in diff algo. There is 3 thing about them.
Most of the time you need to know when they start.
Higher BPM, harder to maintain accuracy to catch them. (banned forever)
Hdash before pixel jump, faster hdash, shorter timing to catch correctly. (rainbow dash)

For diff calculation i think a possible way is to see difficulty of pattern 3 by 3 fruits and find a way to have a global diff.
serenity_P

Equim wrote:

Partially. But tentatively as a ctb mapper/modder I can tell you that jumps as you said "irregularly" are still experimental, and ctb stream mapping is also so hard to be creative that only one or two ctb mappers can handle this. It's easy to SAY, but it's hard to DO.
Remember, everyone has his own way to enjoy this game. Some enjoy jumps, while some enjoy patherns like you; some enjoy pp, while some don't. While I was a beginner I did enjoy hyperdashes which I thought were cool, and I tried my best to do well in them. Anyways you need to respect to the diversity.
Also, whether you love pp or hate, it's always that you care pp. I suggest you don't always judge a ctb specific map according to pp, since in this way you are likely to ignore what painstaking care the mapper pay in the map. In this point of view I can't agree more with Spectator (see his ask http://ask.fm/Spectat0r/answer/128855444064 and http://ask.fm/Spectat0r/answer/128938149472). In addition, sooner or later the pp arithmetic system will changed, but the quality of a map will still remain.



I respect all mappers,spec's ctb maps can lead new players to join us quickly.His maps should be respected,but I just wanna new PP system decreases this type of ctb maps a little to guide new players correctly.CTB maps can be made into different kinds.Some maps contains so many red
fruits,some maps contains hard patterns and you needs high APM.

Overall,I sincerely bless all CTB mappers to show your own style,don't be shy!

Now PP system has something unfair,I just point it .

How did you find where I show anything rude to any mappers?

Mappers need to hurt their brains to share their ideas , just the new system needs to judge their maps more correctly.

That is what I expect. I love this game and I wanna this game more perfectly.

You know ,the official rules can control your mind ,we need to fix the pp system and make the game filled with charm !

I am weak at Ctb but ! I am not a coward ! I can reply to you : I don't care about PP ! because I just wanna be a HD DT pro player, why should I care about PP ? Challenges are enough to me!

I say again : I love this game deeply and wanna her more perfectly.

We are members of this warm family,shouldn't we love her and take care of her ?
Dianthus
Random speech, but I have to agree with you. Also, any (un)ranked map is good as long as at least one player enjoys the map.
eldnl
hey there, is this still alive?
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