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Performance Points feedback and suggestions (Catch the Beat)

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Zak
Yes but eventually you will get to have 2 separate scores per map, one for highest pp and another for your best score.
Ibuki Mioda

Zak wrote:

Yes but eventually you will get to have 2 separate scores per map, one for highest pp and another for your best score.
Oh ok, so like 2 seperate ranking systems. Makes more sence since some maps are more difficult with mods that award less points for score.
Drafura
Why not get rid of score ranking ?
Ibuki Mioda

Drafura wrote:

Why not get rid of score ranking ?
Kind of the purpose anyone plays. Without goals or motivation people would no longer come back to play. Not sure if Peppy would be happen with a large loss of players.
PakaChan

Drafura wrote:

Why not get rid of score ranking ?
And replace it with what? This joke pp system?
TheVileOne
https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=17908&m=2 Please nerf the pp this map gives in DT. It isn't even hard and it gives way too much pp. The Expert is overrated as well, but at least it is tricky in spots.
Ibuki Mioda

TheVileOne wrote:

https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=17908&m=2 Please nerf the pp this map gives in DT. It isn't even hard and it gives way too much pp. The Expert is overrated as well, but at least it is tricky in spots.
Lol that song is from 2008 and surprisingly the scores from it reflects that almost no one plays it anymore if you can reach near the top on first attempt so I don't think it even matters. Then again if they used the old pp system it might even bring back all the people that retired shortly after like my friend okami--chan which quit for that reason after pretty much losing everything she worked for a few years.
TheVileOne

Ibuki Mioda wrote:

TheVileOne wrote:

https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=17908&m=2 Please nerf the pp this map gives in DT. It isn't even hard and it gives way too much pp. The Expert is overrated as well, but at least it is tricky in spots.
Lol that song is from 2008 and surprisingly the scores from it reflects that almost no one plays it anymore if you can reach near the top on first attempt so I don't think it even matters. Then again if they used the old pp system it might even bring back all the people that retired shortly after like my friend okami--chan which quit for that reason after pretty much losing everything she worked for a few years.
There's over 50 people with DT scores on that map. They are just off the leaderboard because HR is easier has a higher multiplier and probably worth much less pp.
PakaChan

Ibuki Mioda wrote:

like my friend okami--chan which quit for that reason after pretty much losing everything she worked for a few years.
Omg, she lost a fake number showing her "skill", what can she do without her precious go berzerk top rank??
Ibuki Mioda

PakaChan wrote:

Ibuki Mioda wrote:

like my friend okami--chan which quit for that reason after pretty much losing everything she worked for a few years.
Omg, she lost a fake number showing her "skill", what can she do without her precious go berzerk top rank??
Was actually near 70% of all scores reset to zero pp which dropped a large number of ctb players off from playing.
TheVileOne
If the effect was really that bad, then obviously she was farming a ton of maps and should have known it was going to happen. I knew I was going to take a large hit and I lost over 700 ranks when pp algorithms changed. I've been slowly working back towards my old rank.
Ibuki Mioda

TheVileOne wrote:

If the effect was really that bad, then obviously she was farming a ton of maps and should have known it was going to happen. I knew I was going to take a large hit and I lost over 700 ranks when pp algorithms changed. I've been slowly working back towards my old rank.
Lol I lost nearly 7000 ranks and about 3k pp but moving back up fast since most of the competition retired.
Zak
Anyone who wants to quit over losing their pp rank obviously doesn't play for the right reasons, the only thing going on in this thread lately is people bringing up the same issues again and again, Tom is already well aware, and when he comes back to tweak pp again, he'll do so, but until then people should stop getting so upset over a number that still doesn't do a very good job of accurately representing skill and bring up issues about the current system that haven't already been discussed. Also nowhere near "most" of the competition retired, that's far from the truth.
Ibuki Mioda

Zak wrote:

Anyone who wants to quit over losing their pp rank obviously doesn't play for the right reasons, the only thing going on in this thread lately is people bringing up the same issues again and again, Tom is already well aware, and when he comes back to tweak pp again, he'll do so, but until then people should stop getting so upset over a number that still doesn't do a very good job of accurately representing skill and bring up issues about the current system that haven't already been discussed. Also nowhere near "most" of the competition retired, that's far from the truth.
Actually if you was listening in on #osu channel that day you would of noticed the war that broke out and the countless number that haven't logged in since that event a bit over 6 months. Besides pp and ranking is what keeps me playing and supporting.
TheVileOne
Please provide actual reasoning as to why we should go back to the old flawed way of calculating pp. Give something that validates adding value to those maps that got pp and difficulty reductions. People leaving is not a valid reason as these people knew what they were playing were overvalued and the only reason they played those maps is that they gave a lot of pp.

Make an argument about what is a fair pp amount for maps that got nerfed.

(I had a 243 pp play in my top list and it gave me ~200 ranks alone.)
Zak
If pp is your sole reason for playing then why not play a game where rank actually gets you somewhere, I'm not trying to be rude about this but being good at catching fruit won't win you money or anything, so playing for pp alone and not being to simply enjoy the game is pointless, I'm not saying you're not allowed to be competitive, but there are tournaments and multiplayer lobbies if you really care about showing how good you are.
Ibuki Mioda

Zak wrote:

If pp is your sole reason for playing then why not play a game where rank actually gets you somewhere, I'm not trying to be rude about this but being good at catching fruit won't win you money or anything, so playing for pp alone and not being to simply enjoy the game is pointless, I'm not saying you're not allowed to be competitive, but there are tournaments and multiplayer lobbies if you really care about showing how good you are.
Simple lets remove pp for all modes for a while and you will have your answer. It's a lot more than what you think. Showing off isn't what it's about, that is what the world cup is for. Just seems that all the people trying to be like you will never get to see what it's like on top if there is no system in place. You wouldn't care because your already there andhave had your fill of it. Besides the current system is fine as long it just keep going down hill.
DxNightwave
No
-Ryuujii-

Ibuki Mioda wrote:

Zak wrote:

If pp is your sole reason for playing then why not play a game where rank actually gets you somewhere, I'm not trying to be rude about this but being good at catching fruit won't win you money or anything, so playing for pp alone and not being to simply enjoy the game is pointless, I'm not saying you're not allowed to be competitive, but there are tournaments and multiplayer lobbies if you really care about showing how good you are.
Simple lets remove pp for all modes for a while and you will have your answer. It's a lot more than what you think. Showing off isn't what it's about, that is what the world cup is for. Just seems that all the people trying to be like you will never get to see what it's like on top if there is no system in place. You wouldn't care because your already there andhave had your fill of it. Besides the current system is fine as long it just keep going down hill.
what are you on.
Zak
My problem with pp is people taking it too seriously and investing their time in that alone, if anything that takes the fun out of this game as you're no longer playing maps that you find challenging and fun, you'll simply be looking at the number they give and playing it regardless of how you feel about the map, honestly from what I can tell pp works well in Taiko and Standard for the most part, so it makes more sense to focus on pp there to an extent but for pp to be your one and only reason to play ctb is sort of dumb when the system is broken, and even more dumb when the same people are going to come back when things are finally updated and cry yet again about how they lost their "well deserved rank".

Once again to be absolutely clear, it's okay to go for pp but to put 100% of all your effort into a system that is very obviously flawed and say there's no other way to enjoy the game is just stupid.
Ibuki Mioda

Zak wrote:

My problem with pp is people taking it too seriously and investing their time in that alone, if anything that takes the fun out of this game as you're no longer playing maps that you find challenging and fun, you'll simply be looking at the number they give and playing it regardless of how you feel about the map, honestly from what I can tell pp works well in Taiko and Standard for the most part, so it makes more sense to focus on pp there to an extent but for pp to be your one and only reason to play ctb is sort of dumb when the system is broken, and even more dumb when the same people are going to come back when things are finally updated and cry yet again about how they lost their "well deserved rank".

Once again to be absolutely clear, it's okay to go for pp but to put 100% of all your effort into a system that is very obviously flawed and say there's no other way to enjoy the game is just stupid.

Then why bother fixing it if it hasn't been correct in years. Should just let it be as it has and gone on living. What is fun for some might not be fun in the eyes of another.
Zak
Lets just revert to ppv1 then and leave it as is and never update it, that should make everyone happy
Kingkevin30
eargh this pointless argument is making me sick, you are talking around a pointless value and how you feel about it instead of just going to the Core
Topic....If you didn't find out in the decade you've been playing video games...there are some Core Aspect how people can enjoy playing a video game

and since I'm a lazy slob, i won't phrase what i want to say myself, I'm just gonna throw some quotes from an Psychological Study called
"A Motivational Model of Video Game Engagement"

Da Text-Wall
Video games motivate a remarkable amount of goal-directed
behavior.
...
the appeal of video games lies
in the inherent properties of the experiences they provide
...
behaviors pursued for their own sake or their inherent satisfaction are
identified as intrinsically motivated, whereas those pursued to
access desired end states or avoid aversive ones are understood as
extrinsically motivated
...
For more than 3 decades, one subtheory of SDT,
cognitive evaluation theory (CET), has guided research on
intrinsic motivation in sports, education, and leisure domains. For
example, Ryan and Deci (2007) recently reviewed a substantial
body of research on sport and exercise in which CET explained
interest and sustained participation in these activities. In another
recent example, Sheldon and Filak (2008) experimentally manip-
ulated autonomy, competence, and relatedness support in a non-
digital game-based learning context, showing that each of these
basic needs independently predicted motivation for a game activ-
ity.
...
This extensive body of research based on CET thus shows that
SPECIFIC PSYCHOLOGICAL NOURISHMENTS PRESENT in activities are nec-
essary for activities to be experienced as inherently enjoyable or
fun
,

so pls be quiet now...OK ?

Just let People Enjoy what they do the way they like it
Ibuki Mioda

Kingkevin30 wrote:

eargh this pointless argument is making me sick, you are talking around a pointless value and how you feel about it instead of just going to the Core
Topic....If you didn't find out in the decade you've been playing video games...there are some Core Aspect how people can enjoy playing a video game

and since I'm a lazy slob, i won't phrase what i want to say myself, I'm just gonna throw some quotes from an Psychological Study called
"A Motivational Model of Video Game Engagement"

Da Text-Wall
Video games motivate a remarkable amount of goal-directed
behavior.
...
the appeal of video games lies
in the inherent properties of the experiences they provide
...
behaviors pursued for their own sake or their inherent satisfaction are
identified as intrinsically motivated, whereas those pursued to
access desired end states or avoid aversive ones are understood as
extrinsically motivated
...
For more than 3 decades, one subtheory of SDT,
cognitive evaluation theory (CET), has guided research on
intrinsic motivation in sports, education, and leisure domains. For
example, Ryan and Deci (2007) recently reviewed a substantial
body of research on sport and exercise in which CET explained
interest and sustained participation in these activities. In another
recent example, Sheldon and Filak (2008) experimentally manip-
ulated autonomy, competence, and relatedness support in a non-
digital game-based learning context, showing that each of these
basic needs independently predicted motivation for a game activ-
ity.
...
This extensive body of research based on CET thus shows that
SPECIFIC PSYCHOLOGICAL NOURISHMENTS PRESENT in activities are nec-
essary for activities to be experienced as inherently enjoyable or
fun
,

so pls be quiet now...OK ?

Just let People Enjoy what they do the way they like it
Lol close enough, pretty much was what I was getting at. Take a cat for example, they like boxes but they don't have a purpose to a human since they don't quiet understand just why they like them. Same with me and many others we like things that don't really matter to some but without them it makes it feel no longer interested at all. Have played some games that the mini games were more fun than the actual game.
OSUjanaiKATSURAda
What are u talking about ? the pp system need a new developer who is Pro at CtB so he can argue every suggestion/refuse by testing ... ( i think tom is doing what he can do atm, if u wanna play for fun just play what u like if u wanna play to improve ur skill play what u can't/hard to play no matter what pp will afford ) :) :D ;) :o >:( :( :? 8-) :lol: :x :P :oops: :cry: :| :roll: :!: :?: :idea: :arrow: :shock:
Insanix_old_1
I create new thread with the idea: https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/340014

But i put here too:

First of all I have to say this is written with google translator, sorry for bad English.

The idea is put a system pp like the one osu!mania, it is odious that you have only one fault no longer obtain pp, then I propose to put a maximum of 1 million score in all songs of Catch the Beat mode, and mods they can not climb score but if they can raise more pp if you have nice score with mod (hard rock, hidden...)

And in the ranking can be overcome people using mods, per example:

1-ExGon 1.000.000 score (Hard Rock)
2-Dusk 1.000.000 score (He has not used any mod)

or also it:

1-ExGon 1.000.000 score (Hard Rock, Hidden)
2-Dusk 1.000.000 score (Hard Rock)
3-Spectator 1.000.000 score (Hard Rock)
4-CLSW 1.000.000 score (Hidden)

Depending on the difficulty of the mod positions up

And for get 1.000.000 score you need 100% accuracy (obviously)
PakaChan

-iNSaNiX- wrote:

I create new thread with the idea: https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/340014

But i put here too:

First of all I have to say this is written with google translator, sorry for bad English.

The idea is put a system pp like the one osu!mania, it is odious that you have only one fault no longer obtain pp, then I propose to put a maximum of 1 million score in all songs of Catch the Beat mode, and mods they can not climb score but if they can raise more pp if you have nice score with mod (hard rock, hidden...)

And in the ranking can be overcome people using mods, per example:

1-ExGon 1.000.000 score (Hard Rock)
2-Dusk 1.000.000 score (He has not used any mod)

or also it:

1-ExGon 1.000.000 score (Hard Rock, Hidden)
2-Dusk 1.000.000 score (Hard Rock)
3-Spectator 1.000.000 score (Hard Rock)
4-CLSW 1.000.000 score (Hidden)

Depending on the difficulty of the mod positions up

And for get 1.000.000 score you need 100% accuracy (obviously)
So nomod SS > 1x droplet miss HDDTHRFL ?
The way score works is realy unlikely to change now, it's been said in multiple post.
Dianthus

-iNSaNiX- wrote:

I create new thread with the idea: https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/340014

But i put here too:

First of all I have to say this is written with google translator, sorry for bad English.

The idea is put a system pp like the one osu!mania, it is odious that you have only one fault no longer obtain pp, then I propose to put a maximum of 1 million score in all songs of Catch the Beat mode, and mods they can not climb score but if they can raise more pp if you have nice score with mod (hard rock, hidden...)

And in the ranking can be overcome people using mods, per example:

1-ExGon 1.000.000 score (Hard Rock)
2-Dusk 1.000.000 score (He has not used any mod)

or also it:

1-ExGon 1.000.000 score (Hard Rock, Hidden)
2-Dusk 1.000.000 score (Hard Rock)
3-Spectator 1.000.000 score (Hard Rock)
4-CLSW 1.000.000 score (Hidden)

Depending on the difficulty of the mod positions up

And for get 1.000.000 score you need 100% accuracy (obviously)
This idea would kill bananas.

Speaking of bananas, I know this isn't the right place, but still I want to ask this random question. Why isn't the banana count shown in the score screen after a game? It shows fruits caught, droplets caught, big combo-giving droplets caught, fruits missed, but doesn't show bananas caught. Weird, if you ask me.
Ibuki Mioda

Hedgeturtle wrote:

Speaking of bananas, I know this isn't the right place, but still I want to ask this random question. Why isn't the banana count shown in the score screen after a game? It shows fruits caught, droplets caught, big combo-giving droplets caught, fruits missed, but doesn't show bananas caught. Weird, if you ask me.
:) the bananas are actually spinners so they just function as bonus points, the full amount of possible seems to be only done by auto.
Zak

Hedgeturtle wrote:

Speaking of bananas, I know this isn't the right place, but still I want to ask this random question. Why isn't the banana count shown in the score screen after a game? It shows fruits caught, droplets caught, big combo-giving droplets caught, fruits missed, but doesn't show bananas caught. Weird, if you ask me.
Since you didn't get a reply to the actual question, it should be implemented someday, as I'm sure osu! can easily calculate the amount you caught correctly (even though replays are sometimes a bit off showing you catching more). There is a feature request thread for it as well with lots of support, so I'd say just keep waiting and it should finally happen eventually.
- AlmaFuerte -
ppv2 rip farmers, ppv3 soon
Zak

[Hakurei-Miko] wrote:

ppv2 rip farmers, ppv3 soon
Says who?
DxNightwave
Welcome to the pp Fields
lineqtxz
ppv3 ayy lmao
maybe in 2 or 3 years xD
Kingkevin30

lineqtxz wrote:

ppv3 ayy lmao
maybe in 2 or 3 years xD
I'm already calling the system we have right now ppv3, since the "Fix" ppv2 had made it pretty much gave it a whole new valuation
Seph
I have a way of enjoying the game even if I don't play it anymore myself.

Watch Zak suffer with 1 miss plays.
iiyo
how is this ppv2? ppv1 = sey's platter.. maware etc ppv2 go berzerk land ppv3 today
Vespa1979

CLSW wrote:

It would be impossible to remove pp ranking system on ctb :P
Guys, think it to better way, don't give up. We still don't know if new system will beloved?


I agree... :)
Play for fun every maps and don't give up ....
Enjoy! :)
Axiaan
Fun > pps.
Pps are just a number, fun is a sentiment.
Why people prefer a number as a sentiment ?

(If you say : why you say that, you're a farmer, you've 5000SS+ --> I like farm, so I have fun when I play. ^w^)

And I'm #730 now, but my skill is for a #900 guy. I can't play mods and better as people around my rank, so the pps system is good, but it doesn't show the real skill of the player.
I'm sure, a #150 can be better as a #80, and there +700pp of difference of actual #80 and #150. x)
Laharl
Someone's ego is stronger than its not-working brain.
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