Performance Points feedback and suggestions (Catch the Beat)

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manjumochi
Tom94, this makes (I believe) the pp calc in CtB on par with Std, it makes me annoyed when a "Easy" map (with mod) gets (a lot of) more pp than "Hard" map when the difficulty on both maps didn't say the same (the hard being harder).
Sorry for my bad english.

Have a Merry Christmas, everyone.
Vuelo Eluko
What a titanic overhaul, comparable to the way rankings shifted when standard went from ppv1 to ppv2... Well, alright, not nearly as much as that, but still it's surprising that the old algorithm could have been THAT screwed in a fundamental level.
Crystallize
Tom, with the old algorithm , you could get much pp from easy 5-6 stars.
And someone said that you cant get pp when you are playing same difficulty maps.Then with the new algorithm ,that means that those who played easy 5-6 stars then must play 5-6 star maps(impossible maps) even with the new star ranking?
Givralii

Simple27 wrote:

Tom, with the old algorithm , you could get much pp from easy 5-6 stars.
And someone said that you cant get pp when you are playing same difficulty maps.Then with the new algorithm ,that means that those who played easy 5-6 stars then must play 5-6 star maps(impossible maps) even with the new star ranking?
Na, it's just the fact that the average star count on maps has been reduced quite a bit. But you can still get lot's of pp with the good maps. Exemple: http://osu.ppy.sh/b/371595?m=2 (Overdose) was in the past past over 6 stars, I got 240 for that in the past. Now it's 5.62 or so but the same score gave me 329 pp. Maps 6 stars rated now are way harder then 6 stars in the past. So you don't need to play 6 stars maps now to get pp, you can get pp with a way lower star rating. Hope you understand what I rote.
Crystallize

Givralii wrote:

Simple27 wrote:

Tom, with the old algorithm , you could get much pp from easy 5-6 stars.
And someone said that you cant get pp when you are playing same difficulty maps.Then with the new algorithm ,that means that those who played easy 5-6 stars then must play 5-6 star maps(impossible maps) even with the new star ranking?
Na, it's just the fact that the average star count on maps has been reduced quite a bit. But you can still get lot's of pp with the good maps. Exemple: http://osu.ppy.sh/b/371595?m=2 (Overdose) was in the past past over 6 stars, I got 240 for that in the past. Now it's 5.62 or so but the same score gave me 329 pp. Maps 6 stars rated now are way harder then 6 stars in the past. So you don't need to play 6 stars maps now to get pp, you can get pp with a way lower star rating. Hope you understand what I rote.
I understand,but i want to get some pp and i want some ctb maps not for pros but chalenging ,can you help me?
Zak
I'd say maps are getting challenging at around 4.5 stars now, maybe a bit lower even.

Though to be honest, if you're playing them just for pp, you won't improve much, but if you play to improve your skill in general your rank will rise with it eventually.
- Zik -
DT seems pretty weird, maps seem to give either too much or not enough pp.

Simple27 wrote:

I understand,but i want to get some pp and i want some ctb maps not for pros but chalenging ,can you help me?
If you want pp, look at other people's profiles who are around your rank and play their top ranks.
Vuelo Eluko
6 stars should be really freaking hard to FC so i think its fine
Crystallize

Zak wrote:

I'd say maps are getting challenging at around 4.5 stars now, maybe a bit lower even.

Though to be honest, if you're playing them just for pp, you won't improve much, but if you play to improve your skill in general your rank will rise with it eventually.
I dont play for pp,but its sad that i play some quite hard things and i dont even get 3 pp!
[Superstar]
Cause you need to get better then you get more pp...
Salamat

Simple27 wrote:

I dont play for pp,but its sad that i play some quite hard things and i dont even get 3 pp!
You're still fairly "new", so I know you'll get better and you will start seeing pp gain. Just be patient, that's how I've been playing for the past year. :)
Scorpionek
I can't really see how low AR with HD got any boost.
Tom, why did you abandon old maps? :cry:
Zak

Scorpionek wrote:

Tom, why did you abandon old maps? :cry:
Maybe they're not giving pp because they're not actually hard?
Granger
I dont know... id consider tiny hitcircles at low AR with HD pretty hard. Of course, only a part of the old maps is like that.
alienflybot

Granger wrote:

I dont know... id consider tiny hitcircles at low AR with HD pretty hard. Of course, only a part of the old maps is like that.
It is not really that hard when you got the pace :<

Instead, the modern (2012-2014) maps are much considered as hard maps due to the high AR with high density of jumps, they are more appealing to the public appetites.
PakaChan
High CS is underrated
CTB maps are overrated (with a few exceptions)
HD gives a little too much pp, tho i'd say high CS shoud get a pp bonus not just low AR
Stars seem way off when it comes to DT/NC
Everyone seems to have too much pp, maybe cut everyone's pp down by 10%-15%

Patterns like these are overrated, especially when they are repetitive (i lowered the AR from 9 to 4 for visibility)
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/228919?m=2


Similar: (again, AR lowered from 9 to 4 for visibility)
https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=117580&m=2


Comparing this map with HR: https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=57699&m=2 and this map nomod https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=49101&m=2:
Astrosexy is way harder than SOSO HR, i'd say astrosexy is underrated and SOSO overrated

Comparing these 2 (both with DT): https://osu.ppy.sh/b/104944?m=2 (3.81 stars) https://osu.ppy.sh/b/163639?m=2 (3.66 stars):
The "NO NAME" map is harder than the Miku song, actually i can't think of a single thing that makes the Miku song hard, i played harder 3 star maps.

Some underrated maps:
https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=136553&m=2 - Can't tell if it's because i'm comparing it to CTB diffs
https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=51308&m=2 - The timing required for those jumps is unreal
https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=37710&m=2 - Again, the timing required for the part in the middle is insane and the 2nd half by itself is way harder than 2.67 stars
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/42792?m=2 +HR - I guess the fact that high CS being underrated is mostly the cause of this
https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=45433&m=2 - You're looking at a 3.2 star map that has EZ scores in top50 and Exgon has 882 plays on it ( i don't know if he tried to FL or HR it or somethign)
https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=73561&m=2 - Some realy hard patterns, shold be way more than 3 stars
https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmap?b=59327&m=2 - The second half reminds me of neu

Some overrated maps:
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/58064?m=2 - The jumps are hard but not hard enough to make this a 4.7 star map
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/506395?m=2 - Nothing realy hard in this map
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/165519?m=2 - Again, some jumps but not hard
Riari
Going to say that CtB maps are worth too much.

Hard coverts like a lot of 0108 maps seem to be worth very little without a FC and even then it's quite poor compared to what you can get from a ctb map.
Kdefs
ctb is fine,
HD gives a fine ammount anywhere between 20-50

stars are off cuz CTB is hard to calculate overall difficulty

everyone doesn't have to much pp that's the issue is there is not enough pp maps or so to speak there is very few 500 pp maps and once the top 10 or 5 do those maps you will have what i call a pp cap, which means you must either A: hardrock or B: DT.

older maps are abandoned because this is the new generation of ctb not switched on lotus style, switched on lotus and system of a down is not really all that tough compared to high apm maps like daze also it's ironic that you say old maps are abandoned by new pp @Scorpionek when your top rank is a tag4 map from 2010

the only thing i can agree with this thread thus far is that DT should be weighed a little more prob 10-15% that is all

if you people are wondering why 0108 maps are worth a lot, because of the big droplet change tag4 style maps and droplet maps are weighed a lot heavily more, that's why most 0108 maps are weighed pretty high

the only issue i can see with this pp change is FL and DT FL is very confusing to calculate and DT should be weighed a lot heavily more.

also idk why you guys are complaining about this, create feedback not opinions at least maps like aspire and shuffle heaven and freedom dive hdhr and velper's DT are being calculated instead of being worth 100 or less.
Riari

Storm- wrote:

ctb is fine,
HD gives a fine ammount anywhere between 20-50

stars are off cuz CTB is hard to calculate overall difficulty

everyone doesn't have to much pp that's the issue is there is not enough pp maps or so to speak there is very few 500 pp maps and once the top 10 or 5 do those maps you will have what i call a pp cap, which means you must either A: hardrock or B: DT.

older maps are abandoned because this is the new generation of ctb not switched on lotus style, switched on lotus and system of a down is not really all that tough compared to high apm maps like daze also it's ironic that you say old maps are abandoned by new pp @Scorpionek when your top rank is a tag4 map from 2010

the only thing i can agree with this thread thus far is that DT should be weighed a little more prob 10-15% that is all

if you people are wondering why 0108 maps are worth a lot, because of the big droplet change tag4 style maps and droplet maps are weighed a lot heavily more, that's why most 0108 maps are weighed pretty high

the only issue i can see with this pp change is FL and DT FL is very confusing to calculate and DT should be weighed a lot heavily more.

also idk why you guys are complaining about this, create feedback not opinions at least maps like aspire and shuffle heaven and freedom dive hdhr and velper's DT are being calculated instead of being worth 100 or less.
CTB is worth too much to be honest - in specific ways. Lots of the maps seem to be weighted nicely, specifically a lot of Rains that are below 200 and such, but then maps like this appear. This map is horrible over-weighted in my opinion and it really shows by the leaderboards. In general maps seem to be nicely weighted but the higher you go it seems the more ridiculous the pp amount gets.

Then we go onto coverts, maps are worth barely anything compared to ctb-specifics unless you go to the stupidly overweighted or to the downright ridiculous. You might say that ctb maps should be worth more, but with such a small pool of maps and no large diversity within the maps, this only caters to specific players.

In terms of the accuracy weighting, it's a bit upsetting. 99% of the time, SS isn't something that is hard to get, but if you look towards the pp differences you'll see some large differences at times that seem a bit too big in my opinion.

Mods. Supporting a DT increase and maybe something to work out the kinks as it is worth a lot or very little, with the large amount being much harder to find without going into plays done by 2-3 players tops. Not keen on FL but I stay clear of that so I'm not gonna throw anything at that.


tl;dr PP spread sucks, ctb is fine or over-weighted, coverts are worth nothing or too much.
PakaChan

Storm- wrote:

everyone doesn't have to much pp that's the issue is there is not enough pp maps or so to speak there is very few 500 pp maps and once the top 10 or 5 do those maps you will have what i call a pp cap, which means you must either A: hardrock or B: DT.
There shouldn't be ANY 500pp map other than maybe some exgon score, 500pp plays should be hard to get. There's 4 500+ pp plays in standard. In ctb: I could count more than 15 just looking at a few profiles. The game with like 3k active players has 15 500pp plays and the game with like 80k active players has 4 500pp plays. People have way too much pp.

Storm- wrote:

stars are off cuz CTB is hard to calculate overall difficulty

Storm- wrote:

also idk why you guys are complaining about this, create feedback not opinions at least maps like aspire and shuffle heaven and freedom dive hdhr and velper's DT are being calculated instead of being worth 100 or less.
Seems a lot easier than in standard from my pov. The pp system is better i'll agree, but it's far from perfect. I don't see anyone complaining, people are giving whatever feedback they can.

Storm- wrote:

the only thing i can agree with this thread thus far is that DT should be weighed a little more prob 10-15% that is all
DT right now is completly broken. If i sort maps by stars and play them one by one, the difficulty is very inconsistent. You could barely pass one map and then FC the next one in 2 tries. DT needs a complete rework.
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