[Super Shock] wrote:
How can DakkyChan rang 15....DakkyChan wrote:
How can be Zak rank 8 XDDDDD
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DeathXHunter
DakkyChan wrote:
How can be Zak rank 8 XDDDDD
lmao119410501 wrote:
DakkyChan wrote:
How can be Zak rank 8 XDDDDDdo you even ask
uguu119410501 wrote:
DakkyChan wrote:
How can be Zak rank 8 XDDDDD
to reply onto the farming case, there are some songs that indeed give a lot of pp with little effort from above average players:
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/161980?m=2 is one case, getting top 200 nets you quite a lot of pp, even when you're at 4.6k pp.
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/55474?m=2 is another example, the intro may be annoying, but its a straight shot to 300 combo, I see why it would give pp because the spacing between the jumps are huge and its pure hypers, but like I said any above average player can easily get accustomed to those jumps and either fc, or even miss once near the end and nets you still some good pp.
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/84485?m=2 the jumps may be annoying but it is definitely doable, only thing I found hard on this is some jump at 369, like I said it gives a lot of pp as well.
although these songs were me experimenting to get under rank 100 with not so much effort, I did in fact move a lot of ranks so far from a few maps. And I'm considering these songs farmable since like I said above average players can do, or fc the songs that I listed with few retries
it does seem massively spaced maps gives a lot of pp too which may be concerning, since some of the maps have a few spots that are considered hard to pass, but require a few attempts to actually get used to it and pass massively large spaced notes.
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/161980?m=2 is one case, getting top 200 nets you quite a lot of pp, even when you're at 4.6k pp.
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/55474?m=2 is another example, the intro may be annoying, but its a straight shot to 300 combo, I see why it would give pp because the spacing between the jumps are huge and its pure hypers, but like I said any above average player can easily get accustomed to those jumps and either fc, or even miss once near the end and nets you still some good pp.
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/84485?m=2 the jumps may be annoying but it is definitely doable, only thing I found hard on this is some jump at 369, like I said it gives a lot of pp as well.
although these songs were me experimenting to get under rank 100 with not so much effort, I did in fact move a lot of ranks so far from a few maps. And I'm considering these songs farmable since like I said above average players can do, or fc the songs that I listed with few retries
it does seem massively spaced maps gives a lot of pp too which may be concerning, since some of the maps have a few spots that are considered hard to pass, but require a few attempts to actually get used to it and pass massively large spaced notes.
---[Super Shock] wrote:
How can DakkyChan rang 13....DakkyChan wrote:
How can be Zak rank 8 XDDDDD
So, from your explanation, if we miss 1 on a map and catch all the droplets, it will give more PP rather than miss loooots of droplets but FC? oh wellKitokofox wrote:
FC shouldn't have to matter too much (Although, it does give a tiny boost) It's more based on score and accuracy than anything now, mostly because of the fact that the only thing that slowly increases when you get better is the accuracy itself. (I feel combo has a somewhat important saying matter in there too)
FC only mattered because often FC means getting good rankings. It's more of "This is the difficulty, how much of the difficulty can you do?" And that's pretty much how pp goes.
It no longer focuses on other players. It tallies up how well YOU do, then compares that tally to others.
Seph
Topic Starter
There was a bug that rated some maps too high. Glee Cast - Friday is one of them, which will get fixed today. Can't say anything definite about the other 2, but the difficulty algorithm will get some adjustments either way.Minky wrote:
to reply onto the farming case, there are some songs that indeed give a lot of pp with little effort from above average players:
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/161980?m=2 is one case, getting top 200 nets you quite a lot of pp, even when you're at 4.6k pp.
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/55474?m=2 is another example, the intro may be annoying, but its a straight shot to 300 combo, I see why it would give pp because the spacing between the jumps are huge and its pure hypers, but like I said any above average player can easily get accustomed to those jumps and either fc, or even miss once near the end and nets you still some good pp.
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/84485?m=2 the jumps may be annoying but it is definitely doable, only thing I found hard on this is some jump at 369, like I said it gives a lot of pp as well.
although these songs were me experimenting to get under rank 100 with not so much effort, I did in fact move a lot of ranks so far from a few maps. And I'm considering these songs farmable since like I said above average players can do, or fc the songs that I listed with few retries
it does seem massively spaced maps gives a lot of pp too which may be concerning, since some of the maps have a few spots that are considered hard to pass, but require a few attempts to actually get used to it and pass massively large spaced notes.
Please someone help the guy outTom94 wrote:
Don't worry, the only way for me to know what to improve is listening to the complaints. I don't play CtB myself after all.Zak wrote:
This system may not be perfect yet, but it's at least starting to go in the right direction, you guys need to chill and give it time to improve.
New PP, new farming maps.Seph wrote:
Well you really can't change the fact that this version of pp still counts map hoarding though.
there will always be maps picked out if you are good enough to farm them, pp can't be changed to a point of progression, ranking is ranking, no way around it i guess, there will always be shortcuts and tricks of the trade.
you should focuse more on AR10 when you play with HR, and AR9 maps with DT have to be rated higher
I have this growing concern that the CTB pros are going to keep complaining about every remotely non-crazy maps giving pp until the only way you can get pp in maps is to FC hyper filled songs that only the top percentiles can play. I agree that it should require effort to be rewarding, but grinding isn't fun. It doesn't show that you're skillful. It only shows that you've played a song enough time to complete it without missing.
This isn't about hard maps giving pp, it's the fact that they should be giving MORE than the not so easy maps, instead of around the same or even less, in ppv1 after getting into around the top 200 getting a good score on a hard map would give nothing unless you get top 20 or so (and sometimes not even then), and that's why ppv2 needs to make maps like that more rewarding.
A nice is example is Kokou no Sousei, in ppv1 rank 4 gave me 0pp but then if I wanted i could go get top 5 on maps that aren't very difficult and I would probably get pp.
None of us are saying that easier end maps shouldn't give pp at all, we're just saying that harder maps need to start giving more so things are somewhat balanced.
A nice is example is Kokou no Sousei, in ppv1 rank 4 gave me 0pp but then if I wanted i could go get top 5 on maps that aren't very difficult and I would probably get pp.
None of us are saying that easier end maps shouldn't give pp at all, we're just saying that harder maps need to start giving more so things are somewhat balanced.
I've been looking around top 50 player's profiles and I see that most of their top performances are basically No mod and HD records. DT, HR, and FL records doesn't seem to have an effect on PP which concerns me. I mean sure the top 5 might have one or two HR records but the vast majority doesn't have theirs shown on their top. Could be a bug?
P.S- Compiling a list of hard maps for CTB would be really helpful to determine which maps should give more than others.
P.S- Compiling a list of hard maps for CTB would be really helpful to determine which maps should give more than others.
Seph
Topic Starter
Such a list is in the opening post of this thread.TenguKing9 wrote:
I've been looking around top 50 player's profiles and I see that most of their top performances are basically No mod and HD records. DT, HR, and FL records doesn't seem to have an effect on PP which concerns me. I mean sure the top 5 might have one or two HR records but the vast majority doesn't have theirs shown on their top. Could be a bug?
P.S- Compiling a list of hard maps for CTB would be really helpful to determine which maps should give more than others.
When did you look through top performances? A bug regarding some nomod weightings has been fixed this morning.
I looked through about 35 mins ago. No mod and HD are fine but HR,DT, and FL are not giving a bonus from what it looks like.Tom94 wrote:
Such a list is in the opening post of this thread.TenguKing9 wrote:
I've been looking around top 50 player's profiles and I see that most of their top performances are basically No mod and HD records. DT, HR, and FL records doesn't seem to have an effect on PP which concerns me. I mean sure the top 5 might have one or two HR records but the vast majority doesn't have theirs shown on their top. Could be a bug?
P.S- Compiling a list of hard maps for CTB would be really helpful to determine which maps should give more than others.
When did you look through top performances? A bug regarding some nomod weightings has been fixed this morning.
Topic Starter
Only if the pro guy literally has one good score and only shit others... which is very unlikely. Believe me, outweighting good plays with worse ones is ridiculously hard in this system, unless map weighting is malfunctioning for easier maps.Seph wrote:
A player who focuses on heavily weighted maps can still be outranked by a player who has played more not-so-hard maps than him.
Like, 50 regular maps > 1 super hard map when it comes to pp gain
I don't really like the list all that much as pretty much everything near the top is unranked, most of those maps I've never even played and I'm not sure just how many people have either to be able to compare difficulty, seeing more of the harder ranked maps would help compare as it's more likely people will know what those play like to be able to compare them properly. It would probably be a good idea to get some higher skilled players who have a pretty good grasp on what makes the maps difficult and have them help out on figuring out a good way to calculate difficulty.
nothing changed on pp v2 in ctb only new farming maps XDDDDDDDDD
If you're going to complain about ppv2 at least try and give advice on how to improve it instead of making pointless posts with no content.DakkyChan wrote:
nothing changed on pp v2 in ctb only new farming maps XDDDDDDDDD
I'm not saying I complain about HOW PP IS, I complain about PP.TheVileOne wrote:
I have this growing concern that the CTB pros are going to keep complaining about every remotely non-crazy maps giving pp until the only way you can get pp in maps is to FC hyper filled songs that only the top percentiles can play. I agree that it should require effort to be rewarding, but grinding isn't fun. It doesn't show that you're skillful. It only shows that you've played a song enough time to complete it without missing.
There's no way to improve pp, make pp a real skills portrait, balance pp maps amounts with pp really hard maps.
PP will never work.
Once again I say it was so pleasant to see players' stats without ranks.
And what I and Dakky said, is just a fact, the unchangeable nature of PP, until it'll exist.
If you don't care about pp what are you doing here andrea, give me some pizza and pasta for jesuschrist.119410501 wrote:
I'm not saying I complain about HOW PP IS, I complain about PP.TheVileOne wrote:
I have this growing concern that the CTB pros are going to keep complaining about every remotely non-crazy maps giving pp until the only way you can get pp in maps is to FC hyper filled songs that only the top percentiles can play. I agree that it should require effort to be rewarding, but grinding isn't fun. It doesn't show that you're skillful. It only shows that you've played a song enough time to complete it without missing.
There's no way to improve pp, make pp a real skills portrait, balance pp maps amounts with pp really hard maps.
PP will never work.
Once again I say it was so pleasant to see players' stats without ranks.
And what I and Dakky said, is just a fact, the unchangeable nature of PP, until it'll exist.
farming posts countseicHmsc wrote:
If you don't care about pp what are you doing here andrea, give me some pizza and pasta for jesuschrist.119410501 wrote:
I'm not saying I complain about HOW PP IS, I complain about PP.
There's no way to improve pp, make pp a real skills portrait, balance pp maps amounts with pp really hard maps.
PP will never work.
Once again I say it was so pleasant to see players' stats without ranks.
And what I and Dakky said, is just a fact, the unchangeable nature of PP, until it'll exist.
no pizza available at 2:10 AM, come back later ! ! !
Seph
That would still mean noobs couldn't farm even a bit, and pros would farm insanesSeph wrote:
The only way to remove PP farming is to not include easy/normals/hards (unless those hards really do give some challenge, besides adding HR/DT)
simply put, manually adding maps, but that would be a pain in the ass
That would kill the majority's fun.Seph wrote:
Well ppv2 is SKILL based, so that just makes sense.
PP for everyone or PP for no one.
And I'd go for the second option.
Why is that necessary?Seph wrote:
The only way to remove PP farming is to not include easy/normals/hards (unless those hards really do give some challenge, besides adding HR/DT)
simply put, manually adding maps, but that would be a pain in the ass
If maps are too easy, then they won't give much pp at all (unless the difficulty calculation algorithm goes horribly wrong).
Example:
A player plays 5000 easy maps, each play worth 100pp. Then it's total pp would be ~1000pp.
Another player plays 1 hard map (worth 300pp), and also has about about 20 plays worth about 200pp. Then it's total would be about ~2100pp
HT and EZ plays shouldn't give that much, I have an HT on my best performance = ='
Seph
how did that become 2100pp when 300+200=500 watFull Tablet wrote:
If maps are too easy, then they won't give much pp at all (unless the difficulty calculation algorithm goes horribly wrong).
Example:
A player plays 5000 easy maps, each play worth 100pp. Then it's total pp would be ~1000pp.
Another player plays 1 hard map (worth 300pp), and also has about about 20 plays worth about 200pp. Then it's total would be about ~2100pp
and who knows, the calculation MIGHT go wrong, and I'm only not referring to easy maps, some
Awarding pp should still be based on relative rank and your relative performances. I believe it still is even with the new changes. It is incorrect to say that removing the value of Easy/Normal/Hard modes will resolve this problem. Noone is saying that Easy/Normal/Hards can be farmed under the new system and unless it is a bug with the system, they shouldn't be able to be farmed under the new system for people who have not moved on to maps far above that skill range.
Think of the ranking system as having invisible tiers. In order to get to the next tier your average performance needs to be at a certain bar. This ensures that noone can farm into ranks they do not deserve. The fact that there are farmable maps (given that these maps are not below the player's assumed skill level for his rank) is a non-issue. A player can farm maps within his skill level all he wants, and his rank will always stay within his invisible tier in which every player around him shares a similar skill level.
The presence of maps that are easier than the average skill level required for a map to give x number of pp are the rogue maps. These maps are the ones that allow players from a lower tier to work their way into a higher tier with a lower degree of effort. These maps should be reduced as much as possible.
Think of the ranking system as having invisible tiers. In order to get to the next tier your average performance needs to be at a certain bar. This ensures that noone can farm into ranks they do not deserve. The fact that there are farmable maps (given that these maps are not below the player's assumed skill level for his rank) is a non-issue. A player can farm maps within his skill level all he wants, and his rank will always stay within his invisible tier in which every player around him shares a similar skill level.
The presence of maps that are easier than the average skill level required for a map to give x number of pp are the rogue maps. These maps are the ones that allow players from a lower tier to work their way into a higher tier with a lower degree of effort. These maps should be reduced as much as possible.
wish i knew how to play with mods :v went from rank 60 usa 1200 overall to 2300 overal and 120~ usa after you fixed the weightedness of no mods
Topic Starter
TheVileOne wrote:
Awarding pp should still be based on relative rank and your relative performances. I believe it still is even with the new changes. It is incorrect to say that removing the value of Easy/Normal/Hard modes will resolve this problem. Noone is saying that Easy/Normal/Hards can be farmed under the new system and unless it is a bug with the system, they shouldn't be able to be farmed under the new system for people who have not moved on to maps far above that skill range.
Think of the ranking system as having invisible tiers. In order to get to the next tier your average performance needs to be at a certain bar. This ensures that noone can farm into ranks they do not deserve. The fact that there are farmable maps (given that these maps are not below the player's assumed skill level for his rank) is a non-issue. A player can farm maps within his skill level all he wants, and his rank will always stay within his invisible tier in which every player around him shares a similar skill level.
The presence of maps that are easier than the average skill level required for a map to give x number of pp are the rogue maps. These maps are the ones that allow players from a lower tier to work their way into a higher tier with a lower degree of effort. These maps should be reduced as much as possible.
I think you both don't quite understand how pp works. The total pp of a player isn't just his 20 best plays added up or something. The plays are individually weighted by how far up they are.Seph wrote:
how did that become 2100pp when 300+200=500 watFull Tablet wrote:
If maps are too easy, then they won't give much pp at all (unless the difficulty calculation algorithm goes horribly wrong).
Example:
A player plays 5000 easy maps, each play worth 100pp. Then it's total pp would be ~1000pp.
Another player plays 1 hard map (worth 300pp), and also has about about 20 plays worth about 200pp. Then it's total would be about ~2100pp
and who knows, the calculation MIGHT go wrong, and I'm only not referring to easy maps, someokayhard diffs (not insanes okay) gives insane amounts of pp, you just gotta look for them. anyhow this still doesn't change the fact that you can still pp hoard so w/e
A player's best play is weighted the most, the second best play a little bit less, the third best play a bit less again, and so on. The exact formula is:
Total pp = (1st Score's pp) * X^0 + (2nd Score's pp) * X^1 + (3rd Score's pp) * X^2 + ... + (nth Score's pp) * X^(n-1)
where is slightly below 1. For instance 0.95.
This way only the best scores of a player are relevant.
If hards, normals or easys are worth too much, then please let me know. It probably is connected to a bug in the algorithm.
I think you both don't quite understand how pp works. The total pp of a player isn't just his 20 best plays added up or something. The plays are individually weighted by how far up they are.i know this isnt a big deal, but do you think you can make it so pp shows up to the 2nd decimal? right now if you have 3000.05 pp it only shows up as 3000 pp, would make tracking pp easier for players especially since most people are probably only getting a fragment of 1 pp per map
A player's best play is weighted the most, the second best play a little bit less, the third best play a bit less again, and so on. The exact formula is:
Total pp = (1st Score's pp) * X^0 + (2nd Score's pp) * X^1 + (3rd Score's pp) * X^2 + ... + (nth Score's pp) * X^(n-1)
where is slightly below 1. For instance 0.95.
This way only the best scores of a player are relevant.
If hards, normals or easys are worth too much, then please let me know. It probably is connected to a bug in the algorithm.