Woobowiz wrote:
players could FC easy maps with a really low unstable rate and get stupid amounts of pp for the difficulty of the maps they play.
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HR pp is related to the OD/CS and not UR?
point is people get ridiculous pp with it relative to the difficulty just by being accurate.. i mean i dont see any 80-90% HR fcs worth 300+pp unlike DT...
thats what PERFORMANCE is though
my suggestion just kinda makes nomod similar to hardrock just in terms of od not circle size difficulty modifiers..
thats what PERFORMANCE is though
my suggestion just kinda makes nomod similar to hardrock just in terms of od not circle size difficulty modifiers..
The people who play HR are also the ones who have good acc in the first place.Riince wrote:
point is people get ridiculous pp relative to the difficulty just by being accurate.. i mean i dont see any 80-90% HR fcs worth 300+pp unlike DT...
e: Can you even pass a HR song with that acc?
what is your point? i was just letting woob know that "getting ridiculous pp for the difficulty of the map" is already a thing that happens, oftentimes with DT too, and that it shouldn't be a bad thing to take nomod along for the ride so that people actually start playing it again, not let it sit and rot because mappers all made them too hard for mods but too low od to be rewarding in a system that came out much later.
you can pass catastrophe with a C with hard rock and thats 9.8.
depends on the map, doesnt even matter about the HP if its 9.8 or 10, drain is mostly determined by how many long spinners or long low density drain parts there are, a map can be hp10 but in reality you lose hp as if its hp6.Kheldragar wrote:
e: Can you even pass a HR song with that acc?
you can pass catastrophe with a C with hard rock and thats 9.8.
getting <100ur on a 2star map is near impossible, give it a try if you want.Woobowiz wrote:
I'm a little iffy on the whole "Factor in Unstable Rate" thing, on the bright side it provides more maps to farm pp, on the other hand, players could FC easy maps with a really low unstable rate and get stupid amounts of pp for the difficulty of the maps they play.
That is a terrible idea, UR should never be factored into pp. I don't mind the thought of low OD getting a small buff, but the reality is the current game meta is high accuracy and not amazing scores (rrtyui), traditional nomod isn't going to be the meta as long as this is the case. But you won't see much od8 in the future, soon nomod will be much more like mods, hard maps will probably be mostly ar/od9.x.
I don't really care that much about OD, FL etc., what really needs buffing is sliders.
I don't really care that much about OD, FL etc., what really needs buffing is sliders.
I don't really like the idea of factoring in UR either. I think nomod should be made more appealing somehow. For example, more OD9 maps in the 4-5 star range that your average 4/5 digit player could farm. (Though it doesn't really solve the current low OD issue with existing maps)
simple
separate aim, speed and accuracy
separate aim, speed and accuracy
A lot of people say this, got any example maps?B1rd wrote:
That is a terrible idea, UR should never be factored into pp. I don't mind the thought of low OD getting a small buff, but the reality is the current game meta is high accuracy and not amazing scores (rrtyui), traditional nomod isn't going to be the meta as long as this is the case. But you won't see much od8 in the future, soon nomod will be much more like mods, hard maps will probably be mostly ar/od9.x.
I don't really care that much about OD, FL etc., what really needs buffing is sliders.
There is probably a whole bunch of them but here is onejesus1412 wrote:
A lot of people say this, got any example maps?
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/148092
303 pp for first place with only 3 hdhr player
but I am staying neutral since there is so many kinds of beatmaps out there
Maybe maps like scary rose, big black, adult's toy and talent shredder? I'm sure there are better examples thoughjesus1412 wrote:
A lot of people say this, got any example maps?B1rd wrote:
That is a terrible idea, UR should never be factored into pp. I don't mind the thought of low OD getting a small buff, but the reality is the current game meta is high accuracy and not amazing scores (rrtyui), traditional nomod isn't going to be the meta as long as this is the case. But you won't see much od8 in the future, soon nomod will be much more like mods, hard maps will probably be mostly ar/od9.x.
I don't really care that much about OD, FL etc., what really needs buffing is sliders.
All underrated because of the 1key sections, not the sliders afaik.uberpancake wrote:
Maybe maps like scary rose, big black, adult's toy and talent shredder? I'm sure there are better examples thoughjesus1412 wrote:
A lot of people say this, got any example maps?
of those examples, the only ones with streams are big black and adult's toy and they are extremely easy streams, so the fact that most of the maps difficulty comes from 1key parts is a big factor, i think jesse is right
well except maybe towards the end of bb, but id say that map is still 6.5 stars so..
well except maybe towards the end of bb, but id say that map is still 6.5 stars so..
Re-posting my original suggestion because people keep seeing the UR thing Riince talk about after this.
Woobowiz wrote:
This may be a stupid suggestion, but is it within reason to "buff" lower OD by weighing the accuracy values of 100's and 50's?
So for OD 6, 100's would be worth 2/5 or 1/2 of a 300 rather than the usual 1/3rd of a 300. Low OD is weak enough for giving less pp even for an SS, why not give it a little push
that makes no sense since it basically rewards poor performance (low OD low acc) and would make low OD high acc further underrated.
No one replied because it was a stupid idea, don't just keep posting what you said until someone acknowledges it.
As for examples, I think you mentioned Neuroncia as one, this would be another example. But I think it's already pretty evident that sliders are underrated, I don't think there is one slider map that gives good pp, every good pp map is almost all circles. They don't give anywhere enough pp for the extra aim and reading you have to do, and of course they give no accuracy pp which is a big deal.
What do you mean by '1key section'? I think it's safe to say that those maps would be a lot easier if the sliders were circles, I actually tried changing some sliders to circles on Scarlet Rose and the star rating actually increased.jesus1412 wrote:
All underrated because of the 1key sections, not the sliders afaik.uberpancake wrote:
Maybe maps like scary rose, big black, adult's toy and talent shredder? I'm sure there are better examples though
As for examples, I think you mentioned Neuroncia as one, this would be another example. But I think it's already pretty evident that sliders are underrated, I don't think there is one slider map that gives good pp, every good pp map is almost all circles. They don't give anywhere enough pp for the extra aim and reading you have to do, and of course they give no accuracy pp which is a big deal.
1key sections as in... the entirety of the maps (if you 1key). Very spaced slow streams if that's how you prefer to see them.B1rd wrote:
No one replied because it was a stupid idea, don't just keep posting what you said until someone acknowledges it.What do you mean by '1key section'? I think it's safe to say that those maps would be a lot easier if the sliders were circles, I actually tried changing some sliders to circles on Scarlet Rose and the star rating actually increased.jesus1412 wrote:
All underrated because of the 1key sections, not the sliders afaik.
As for examples, I think you mentioned Neuroncia as one, this would be another example. But I think it's already pretty evident that sliders are underrated, I don't think there is one slider map that gives good pp, every good pp map is almost all circles. They don't give anywhere enough pp for the extra aim and reading you have to do, and of course they give no accuracy pp which is a big deal.
There are only two ways that I can figure this out, one possibility is that jump distance is taken from the ends of slider, in this case, when a player doesn't follow a short slider (as in, they treat it like a normal hit circle) the effective jump distance is calculated with the wrong assumptions. The player presses the slider start and then moves to the next note/slider as if it was a hitcircle but the star algorithm assumes that they follow the slider to the end then treats the jump as the shorter distance between the slider end and the next note.
The other possibility that could possibly mitigate the above scenario is that the jump distance is taken from the point furthest from the end of a slider that would yield a 300. In this scenario the previously mentioned scenario can still occur but it should be dampened unless the sliders get especially long. This solution however has it's own issues, shorter sliders will be assumed to work as standard hitcircles.
The one thing I can't understand is how long slider maps are underrated, in my eyes it just doesn't make any sense and I'd have to guess that it's underrated for other reasons.
I'll admit this is an issue and that it's probably one of the more fixable ones at this point in time (compared to heavy 1key sections/slow spaced streams).
to give you a better example of underrated sliders: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/128645 or https://osu.ppy.sh/s/102282
i personally think pp doesnt look enough at technical difficulty, it's pretty much only physical ability. https://osu.ppy.sh/s/290040 are easily 5+ stars in terms of difficulty but only 4.32 stars because it's a slow map with pretty much no spacing
i personally think pp doesnt look enough at technical difficulty, it's pretty much only physical ability. https://osu.ppy.sh/s/290040 are easily 5+ stars in terms of difficulty but only 4.32 stars because it's a slow map with pretty much no spacing
lol I didn't know Terminal was so underratedsilmarilen wrote:
to give you a better example of underrated sliders: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/128645 or https://osu.ppy.sh/s/102282
i personally think pp doesnt look enough at technical difficulty, it's pretty much only physical ability. https://osu.ppy.sh/s/290040 are easily 5+ stars in terms of difficulty but only 4.32 stars because it's a slow map with pretty much no spacing