It's hard to give an example of a fast FL score because they're such a rarity (for a reason). A player can't get a score with FL unless it's really below their max ability. That doesn't mean it's "comfortably in their limits" though, because FL, like other mods, is making it harder for the player, even if the map doesn't physically change. If they can get a score that's close to their max ability, then they're a talented FL player that deserves reward. Of course rrtyui would get the best FL score if he tried, he's the best player playing a map way below his level that's above most others. It's also on a complicated slider filled map which makes it low pp and harder to FL. The awkward mapstyle itself is one of his known specialties as well. We can also add that he would have probably gotten more pp if he just got a score with only HD instead despite it being the "best FL score", but whatever (don't know how much pp his score gives, but I'm assuming based on what I've seen). Anyway, Dungeon's score may be slow for say, an HD+DT score, but with DT+FL it's a totally different story, just look at how hard it is to follow after 230 combo until the end because of its speed. Sure faster bpm FL scores exist, such as Mesita's score on this, a sloppy but nice score, but it's an easy insane, especially in comparison to World End. Despite the mapping being very vanilla, you can tell how hard it is to follow at certain parts, especially around the climax, because of its high bpm. Something like Suklaapallit may be more aim intensive (without FL) and have a higher star rating, but I wouldn't consider it as hard to FC with DT+FL as World End because of the challenge the speed difference adds to following it with FL. I'm focusing on what makes an FL score harder to execute, not harder to memorize, here. Overall I think we somewhat agree that the harder aim maps should be where the pp is coming from with FL, but the problem I have is that what's easier and harder to aim with FL is different than how aim pp is determined, which makes it complicated. You think FL shouldn't reward more for aim, and I think it's wrong for aim pp to be the only factor involved in this calculation.
jesus1412 wrote:The map is quite clearly not hard as hell as an immense amount of people have FC'd it. You talk about all these "fast" maps that need buffing but I've yet to see one example of a score. Dungeons 5.3 star DT score isn't a "fast" score in the slightest, it pales in comparison to scores like rrtyuis Neuronecia score (which is genuinely quite tough for FL but sadly underrated nomod).
I think the best resolution here would be to lower the 50% aim boost that FL currently gets and increase a more generic aspect of it to try and roughly balance it out while buffing gneral FL plays, this way non aim intensive scores would receive a little bit more from FL (i.e, every FL score I can think of) and the aim intensive scores (when they exist) will still have that massive juicy pp pool that people have yet to discover.
As it stands now, there is no FL player (no matter how pro they are with FL) with top ranks full of FL scores, unless they're holding themselves back from getting higher pp scores from non-FL scores or just don't care about pp, so I don't know why you're worrying. I was trying to make it clear that it's only fast aim intensive maps that need to reward more, aka the ones that aren't farmed, barely farmable by skilled players, and barely even exist. Basically its bonus being not just aim, but factors like, the bpm/the amount of time between each jump, the chaos, etc. (It would probably be difficult to do so it probably wouldn't happen, though.) As it is now, I feel that jumpy maps around ~180bpm or spacey streamy maps are benefiting most from the current system since they're generally at a speed where you can process what you're doing with FL well while still having a map with some aim pp in it.
jesus1412 wrote:It also seems that you believe that I think FL will become "farmable", this isn't the case. I think that FL would become a way for people to obtain scores with pp above their physical play ability by no braining a map that's comfortably within their limits. pp reflects PERFORMANCE; if you're not PERFORMING well enough then you shouldn't be rewarded, putting a lot of time into a single map is an AWFUL way to get pp in the long term but it most certainly could allow for people to "perform" above their level in the short term and skew their rank if FL was buffed.
Also this might sound weird and sacrilegious, but I think AR11 bonuses could be halved if FL was used since the map has to be memorized.