Nobody is saying FL should be worth more than DT, in fact, my complaint was that fast FL scores are underrated, NOT mild long ones. Memorization is also a skill in itself anyway. Just like finger speed, some people are just naturally better than others, but everyone improves with practice. People like BluOxy can FL songs without much practice from playing it so much. loli_milk had really fast recall, eyes, and decisive reactions that made him good at FL.
jesus1412 wrote:I can put more effort into a DT score than a FL score whilst displaying more skill yet I gain no bonus for my added effort, why should fl have a perk based on the fact that it "usually" requires more effort? FL most certainly doesn't always require more effort, it already gets a long map bonus which is essentially rewarding the effort that you put in, it doesn't deserve any more reward for time investment. If effort was really a valued skill then it would make sense to record the amount of time spent setting a score (however this could be fabricated and is an awful as fuck idea anyway). To add to that, doing a score faster IS more skillfull, you're clearly more consistent and capable so the logic of "more effort deserves more reward" is completely ass backwards in my opinion.
Kheldragar wrote:I think being able to put in a large amount of effort is a skill in itself.
In some ways you're unknowingly agreeing with me. You're worried about FL becoming farmable for pp (which will never happen on high pp DT maps unless the person is literally a savant), yet as it is now, FL is being rewarded for mostly length, and I'm complaining that it's underrated for more physically hard songs. You say Dungeon "isn't performing well enough" to get the FL bonus, but the real feat was the full combo. It would be like if _index got a 97% HR FC on some DragonForce map but WWW got more pp from a 99.8% no mod. Going back to Dungeon's DT+FL score, which is obviously more impressive than all of the other scores on the set, it has 15pp less than a DT+HD SS. Since 1 100 is worth 6pp less, that basically means that Dungeon's bonus for using FL on a fast map over hidden was only worth about 4.5 100s worth of pp, meaning that he would have to get only
You can complain that patience is a huge factor, but nobody wants to get pp by playing a map thousands and thousands of times like takeki3gou, how the hell is that easy pp? You could reach total new levels with HR from 8000 plays for Pete's sake. (Also please keep in mind I'm talking about fast FL scores still, not long ones.) It's not like the amount of pp you receive decreases with your playcount on each song, patience has always been rewarded in the system, if you can keep retrying for a good accuracy or add hidden without tilting (which I can't) you can rake in the pps. And if the speed of jumps was more of a factor for FL bonus than length, then you would have to be a good player to FL the map anyway, because being able to FL something means you have to at least be able to high combo it consistently. I think it's nuts that you think people with unnatural amounts of patience would make it comparable to a touchscreen player playing TAG4, because it's the difference of 500 plays vs. 10,000 plays, not a few plays vs. impossible (I'm sure majority of high ranked players could do this if they put enough plays), and either way, the player has to improve in more ways than simply memorization in those plays if he wants to full combo the map. This can't turn into ppv1 where it's just "oh hey a map that rewards pp, I'll just FL it to get more" because it's not HD+FL vs. HD+DT, it's DT+FL vs. HD+DT.
The amount of processing a player would have to go through on a jumpy 180bpm FL vs a jumpy 220bpm FL is a huge step, even if the 180bpm has jumps that are quite bigger. The player has to actually look at what they're doing and where their cursor is and make quick decisive movements based on them, and on top of it, might not even be able to see whether or not they're hitting 100s (or be too preoccupied to understand how to adjust their timing). It's not just "play until you know where everything is", it is skill, it's playing in the moment, and it's not nearly as farmable as you think. Anyone that would be able to benefit from fast FL scores greatly would deserve to be rewarded in some way. I'm not saying to "make FL worth more", I'm saying that FL is a bit more complicated than length and aim, and shouldn't just be some multiplier, because some slower, aim heavy maps are being a *bit* overvalued (most I think are pretty fair though), but fast paced maps (where FL is the most impressive) are being undervalued. I think HD is what's throwing FL most out of balance since FL changes certain ways HD works/is processed.
Sorry this is a messy argument, but I really don't know how to organize my thoughts.