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[-Cloud-]
You asked about his drop in the rankings, not about how impressive his plays are. They are indeed impressive, but the played way too much of short AR9, which got nerfed right now. So it's no wonder he lost that much PP.
Infevo

[-Cloud-] wrote:

You asked about his drop in the rankings, not about how impressive his plays are. They are indeed impressive, but the played way too much of short AR9, which got nerfed right now. So it's no wonder he lost that much PP.
No, I didnt ask anything about him dropping in particular. I wanted you to give reasons for why short sized maps would not "pay off" anymore which is plainly wrong considering my reasoning.
[-Cloud-]
How does tv size have to do anything with him losing rank? Explain please.
He spammed shitty TV Sizes and now he lost fucking pp due to the 10.3 nerf. What's not understandable here? I just answered your question.
Vuelo Eluko

[-Cloud-] wrote:

shitty
hej some of those maps are pretty fun but i agree overrated more often than not. of course its worth mentioning that a 5 star tv size has more measured difficulty than any equal duration segment of, say, a 4-5 minute 5 star map
Infevo

[-Cloud-] wrote:

How does tv size have to do anything with him losing rank? Explain please.
He spammed shitty TV Sizes and now he lost fucking pp due to the 10.3 nerf. What's not understandable here? I just answered your question.
ok, man nvm. let's make a cut right here.
Purple
Lets not degenerate into thinking that PP is the true absolute way of determining skill, remember that it doesn't account at all for reading difficulty

pretty much half the top 10 have a shit-ton of good/incredible scores on underrated maps, hvick included

OT: The cs buff is welcome but it only affects the aim component. I know it's probably hard to fix with the way map difficulty is calculated but that means that maps with tiny circles and very spaced streams don't get benefited from it as much as they should

Examples would be snow storm euphoria
Ievan Polkka Trance Remix
Rubik's Cube
Guillaume Tell
Dragonforce maps... etc

Edit: Just realized the same could be said about HD
Zemroid
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/182007?m=0

I FC'd this map with 98.83% acc and no mods. I got 82pp. Then I FC'd it with HD and 98.37% acc. The HD play was worth the same amount as the nomod play. It would be okay if my accuracy would've been a lot worse than the nomod play but the difference is only 0.5%. I find this really stupid since there's not a single reason why someone would like to FC the map with HD when you get no pp at all from it even though it is harder to do. Can someone explain the logic behind this?
Vuelo Eluko

Zemroid wrote:

only 0.5%.
um 0.5% is a lot...

Zemroid wrote:

not a single reason why someone would like to FC the map with HD when you get no pp at all from it even though it is harder to do. Can someone explain the logic behind this?
if you dont get way worse acc like that, its a decent bit more PP, but obviously not that much since it doesnt actually increase difficulty of the map just adds a small aim pp bonus.
Yuudachi-kun
.5% is only a lot if you have good acc. 8-)
Vuelo Eluko
Or when you're comparing modless and hidden plays.
Zemroid
Even if I didn't get those extra 2 100's, I doubt I would've gotten more than 83 or 84pp which seems not worth it at all.
koromo

Zemroid wrote:

Even if I didn't get those extra 2 100's, I doubt I would've gotten more than 83 or 84pp which seems not worth it at all.
Hidden is very well worth it on aim intensive maps as it gives a flat bonus to your aim pp. This means it's especially rewarding on jumpy maps. The map you played is probably not very aim intensive, and thus hidden has a very small effect on your final pp. On easier maps accuracy is the most important aspect as far as pp goes I believe.
Vuelo Eluko

koromo wrote:

Zemroid wrote:

Even if I didn't get those extra 2 100's, I doubt I would've gotten more than 83 or 84pp which seems not worth it at all.
Hidden is very well worth it on aim intensive maps as it gives a flat bonus to your aim pp. This means it's especially rewarding on jumpy maps. The map you played is probably not very aim intensive, and thus hidden has a very small effect on your final pp. On easier maps accuracy is the most important aspect as far as pp goes I believe.
1-2 100's is also huge on short maps where they have a big effect on overall acc, had i not gotten 2 100's on natsu no hi, that play probably would have jumped up by like 10-15pp.
Tazze


#1st score is worth 170pp

the #2 score is worth 189pp ( 1x miss )

lost about 150~ ranks from improving this score ( my pp went down to 2974 from 2993 )

feels like i don`t even have to get a full combo on any songs anymore if accuracy is more important, a full combo should be worth more
Aureal3D
Tom,you think that accuracy is very important?I am 16k player,i NEVER gain SS rank in my life.I started to play from hard's and insanes(i dont ever play easy\normal maps).I can't understand WHY accuracy is so important.
When i was 1000 pp try to found 2000pp players and fc their nomod maps and gain less pp than they are because of accuracy.Now i have 2500 pp.Maps that people with same rank has are too easy for me,problem is the same with accuracy.
Now i pick up maps of players with the same rank,FC this maps with hr for 90% and gain LESS pp than they are.Or i just find 3000-3500pp players and pick up their maps and fc the same maps but for 90% again.You would say that "osu is rythm game,
accuracy is the most important thing im rhythm game" But on OD>10 there is no difference in rhythm between 100 and 300?Yeah in high od there is no rhythm at all.If i record the sound of 99% OD 10 play and the sound of 95% play you would not
hear the difference!Rhythm is the sound of your hitsounds&keyboard mapped with music and at od>10 it is completely the same on 90-95% but PP system does not think so.This main issue is that you can FARM easy maps on fullmod or just
gain SS on hard maps and have the same PP as you get for 90% on insane map with HR(example 104 pp for https://osu.ppy.sh/b/75071 kaneko's normal 104pp for SS fullmod 290 combo).Why my HR plays are worth the same as easy plays for SS
or hards for SS nomod?Players who farm accuracy on easy maps can't play on high speed,the cant read hard insane maps patterns,the even shouldn't know how to jump or stream,the should not read high AR,just accuracy!
Theoretically you can gain my rank playing maps like that for accuracy.Or system should be based only on accuracy like in osu!mania,fullcombo should not be so important and slidermisses too.Or combo based system where 1%pp=1%accuracy with some bonus for SS.
Example of players,that play on higher rank because of accuracy (https://osu.ppy.sh/u/4982855 and https://osu.ppy.sh/u/Cooperca).I am personally started 10.33 learning to gain 200pp scores because accuracy cost more on 10.33 and high od,that means that i should
not worry about accuracy and would get about 200pp for 90%.

The second issue is HD mod.In accuracy-based system accuracy is everything as i said later.HD is a mod which helps you to get more 100s and 50s,basically mod which helps to get worth accuracy.This mod is the hardest mod in game.
But you get about 6% bonus for that?This mod would give more bonus because its really hard to get accuracy with this mod.So the main issue that this mod is no worth to play with,because its about 40% harder to play with it and bonus is only 6%.

Another issue is the length of the song.Long songs above 1000 combo does not give huge bonus.For example this map https://osu.ppy.sh/b/161787 gives 540pp for HDDT(505 combo 270 bpm 57 seconds,a lot of people FC that map with dt).
And this song https://osu.ppy.sh/b/252238 give's 450pp for 99% nomod,478pp 99% with HD and 573pp for 99% with HR(260 bpm,6.24 minutes and 2645 combo) no one ever FC that song(rrtyui got slidermiss,Legendre got banned)

That mean's that songs with high combo and high risk to get miss\slidermiss\100 or 50 does not worth anything.Its easier to farm 500 combo maps with Dt for 1 minute.I think that 500 combo maps should get the same pp as 500 combo pass on 1000 combo map.
The last problem are slidermiss.I know that your system does not rate slider difficulty(skystar,val0108 maps and other maps with hard sliders does not worth anything over their difficulty)But for slidermiss in the middle you loose
ALL of the your PP!That means that slidermisses should be removed from game(you would get 100s for slidermisses) or combo should not be important.If sliders are not rated properly the should not affect to the amount of PP.

Stream farming should be nerfed(there are a lot of players mostly asian players who can stream 200bpm as they start playing osu,i can't stream over 150 bpm at 16k rank and 1 year of playing).There are a lot of maps like that(https://osu.ppy.sh/b/116128),
which you can FC using doubletap(press z and x at the same time) or tap technique and this maps gives a lot of pp.
Conclusion:
1.Playing hard maps for lower accuracy should give more pp than playing easy maps for good accuracy (90%with HR should give like SS nomod) 1%pp=1%accuracy
2.HD mod should worth it or should not affect on pp(like in osu!mania),just score mod
3.Playing long maps should worth it because of risk to get miss and loose combo
4.Sliders should be rated properly or should not affect on amount of pp because they are not rated properly.
5.Hard patterns should be rated,there are a lot of maps with hard patterns that gives nothing over their difficulty
6.Stream farming should be nerfed
woqx

Aureal3D wrote:

I am 16k player,i NEVER gain SS rank in my life.I started to play from hard's and insanes(i dont ever play easy\normal maps).I can't understand WHY accuracy is so important.
The fact you never got an SS rank kinda shows it's not so easy to achieve, which must be the reason why it's rewarding. Usually when I get over 99% I still mess up some parts of the song and am not really satisfied with my play, so think about how many mistakes you make when you get 90% plays and ask yourself if you really think they should be worth a lot.

Aureal3D wrote:

If i record the sound of 99% OD 10 play and the sound of 95% play you would not hear the difference!
Actually I'm pretty sure you would, but I think it depends on how offbeat the 100s are.

Aureal3D wrote:

This main issue is that you can FARM easy maps on fullmod or just
gain SS on hard maps and have the same PP as you get for 90% on insane map with HR
Doing this will not get you very far though since pp are weighted and there's a point where you don't gain a single pp from SSing hards anymore. HR makes accuracy more difficult so it obviously won't be very rewarding if you aren't accurate.

Aureal3D wrote:

Or combo based system where 1%pp=1%accuracy with some bonus for SS.
This is a horrible idea. Let's say you would get 530pp for an SS on Freedom Dive with a 30pp SS bonus so 500pp for 99%, this would mean if you hit only 50s and get about 15% acc, you'd still gain over 400p for the play. The way the current pp system works is quite similar to what you described, but the pp you get for 1% acc will be higher the closer you get to SS, which makes way more sense.

Aureal3D wrote:

Example of players,that play on higher rank because of accuracy (https://osu.ppy.sh/u/4982855 and https://osu.ppy.sh/u/Cooperca)
His accuracy is worse than yours, so unless I've misunderstood something, this makes no sense and contradicts everything you've said so far.

Aureal3D wrote:

The second issue is HD mod.In accuracy-based system accuracy is everything as i said later.HD is a mod which helps you to get more 100s and 50s,basically mod which helps to get worth accuracy.This mod is the hardest mod in game.
But you get about 6% bonus for that?This mod would give more bonus because its really hard to get accuracy with this mod.So the main issue that this mod is no worth to play with,because its about 40% harder to play with it and bonus is only 6%.
Unlike HR and DT, HD usually doesn't make things harder at all, it just makes the game different. HD has no influence on any of the difficulty settings, so once you are used to playing with it, it shouldn't really be any harder than playing without mods. You could therefore say it's actually the easiest mod in the game once you're used to it. Try playing a map with only HR, only DT and then only HD, your best play will probably be the HD one. I could be wrong about this though because I never really play HD so you could say I don't know what I'm talking about.

Aureal3D wrote:

Stream farming should be nerfed(there are a lot of players mostly asian players who can stream 200bpm as they start playing osu,i can't stream over 150 bpm at 16k rank and 1 year of playing).There are a lot of maps like that(https://osu.ppy.sh/b/116128),
which you can FC using doubletap(press z and x at the same time) or tap technique and this maps gives a lot of pp.
If some asian guy is good at streaming 200bpm from day one and you're still bad at it even after a year of playing, he's obviously lucky to have that skill from the start but that doesn't mean you should complain because it's unfair. Just deal with it and take the time to learn streams, there will always be people who are naturally better than you at certain things. I could say jumps are overrated because an FC on Granat gives more pp than SSing Macuilxochitl which to me is a lot harder, but that's just because my aim is better than my streaming. If you think the map you linked gives a lot of pp and can easily be FCd, go ahead and do it instead of complaining, otherwise you just seem like you're mad because you're not good at certain things that happen to be rewarding. It reminds me of people who complain about DT "farming" and call it easy but aren't actually able to play with the mod at all.
B1rd

Purple wrote:

Lets not degenerate into thinking that PP is the true absolute way of determining skill, remember that it doesn't account at all for reading difficulty

pretty much half the top 10 have a shit-ton of good/incredible scores on underrated maps, hvick included

OT: The cs buff is welcome but it only affects the aim component. I know it's probably hard to fix with the way map difficulty is calculated but that means that maps with tiny circles and very spaced streams don't get benefited from it as much as they should

Examples would be snow storm euphoria
Ievan Polkka Trance Remix
Rubik's Cube
Guillaume Tell :?
Dragonforce maps... etc

Edit: Just realized the same could be said about HD
tiny circles and spaced streams not buffed enough? eh? https://osu.ppy.sh/b/115384?m=0 https://osu.ppy.sh/b/111302?m=0
GhostFrog
@Aureal3D
Most of your post is you complaining that people who can do things you can't get rewarded for it or that you aren't getting rewarded for doing a mediocre job on things (HD, long maps), but since woqx already covered most of that, I would just like to point out 2 things you said that made some sense:

-Sliders are, in fact underrated right now. This is a well-known problem. Removing them from pp entirely is a terrible solution though...better they're worth too little than that they're worth nothing. I posted a suggestion a page ago of something that might help sliders out a bit but it got lost and ignored. If you have any ideas of a way of valuing sliders properly without making repeat sliders and sliderstreams worth too much, you should suggest it here to help out tom.

-Pattern difficulty is high up on the list of "things we would like to have, but that are very difficult to implement". Like sliders, if you can come up with a good way to deal with pattern difficulty, you should post your suggestions in this thread.


A lot of problems and complaints have been brought up in the 133 pages of this thread. Obviously you can't be expected to read the entire thing to see which things have and haven't been suggested, but at this point, complaints about problems that have been around since this system was implemented aren't really that useful unless you also give suggestions of how to fix them.
Purple

B1rd wrote:

tiny circles and spaced streams not buffed enough? eh? https://osu.ppy.sh/b/115384?m=0 https://osu.ppy.sh/b/111302?m=0
The first map you showed is a prime example of something that would give jack shit PP without 98.5%+ accuracy

Pretty much every HR score is like that in the moment, you get the deserved PP for it but only if you get very good accuracy, no matter how hard it is to FC the song. In that sense, I do think accuracy is slightly overrated, but it kind has to be ATM because otherwise HR would be completely worthless.

I mean, a good example of why this is a problem is Airman with HR. It should give about 600 PP no matter what, but it doesn't, even if you have 99% accuracy, just because BD didn't put enough streams in it.
Yuudachi-kun
If I got it right that pp assumes the minimum movement for sliders, then why isn't it halfway inbetween min and max?
DT-sama
I haven't laughed like this in years. I love you Aureal3D.
B1rd

Purple wrote:

The first map you showed is a prime example of something that would give jack shit PP without 98.5%+ accuracy

Pretty much every HR score is like that in the moment, you get the deserved PP for it but only if you get very good accuracy, no matter how hard it is to FC the song. In that sense, I do think accuracy is slightly overrated, but it kind has to be ATM because otherwise HR would be completely worthless.

I mean, a good example of why this is a problem is Airman with HR. It should give about 600 PP no matter what, but it doesn't, even if you have 99% accuracy, just because BD didn't put enough streams in it.
I think low acc plays should give a little more pp. But still, high acc is a prerequisite for HR, you can't just use it for AR10 and small CS and complain shit acc FC's don't give enough pp. Airman HR should give nowhere near 600pp, it's not that hard. For bad acc, maybe 460-70 IMO.
Oh and Tom said that he will be nerfing the length bonus for high circle streamy maps.

Kheldragar wrote:

If I got it right that pp assumes the minimum movement for sliders, then why isn't it halfway inbetween min and max?
good question...

DT-sama wrote:

I haven't laughed like this in years. I love you Aureal3D.
New players these days lol.
Purple

B1rd wrote:

Airman HR should give nowhere near 600pp, it's not that hard.
Yeah ok

I think it's the hardest thing anyone has ever pulled off in this game (aside from Maffalda DT). It should definitely give way more than Remote Control DT. But it doesn't, because CS is somehow still underrated.
byfar
sorry I'm gonna have to say skill wise overall, remote control DT is > airman HR. 1) being that it has crazy 250 bpm full screen jumps (for people who have experienced playing >240 bpm, they will know how much harder it really is compared to under say 220 bpm. Above that becomes exponentially harder) and second being 10.3 ar
Vuelo Eluko

Purple wrote:

I think it's the hardest thing anyone has ever pulled off in this game (aside from Maffalda DT)
Far from it. It's nothing but aim, there's very little demanded from the player from either speed (200bpm is nothing) accuracy (low BPM + simple 1/2 spam and one 200bpm stream is not hard for acc even at high OD) and reading (low density, low complexity). I'd say remote control DT is harder because it's more demanding in that respect.

Probably one of the most impressive plays in terms of aim alone, but overall? not close imo.
Purple
Well ok I guess there's some differing opinions on the matter, I thought the number of FC's in one map vs the other made it obvious which one was more difficult to get, but apparently not. Honestly I don't really *like* Airman as a map, even with my 600 plays on it, so that may have something to do with it.
DroidBass
I am not sure at all, but 90ish% FC accuracy at OD9 seems to not have a considerable bonus compared to OD7 90s% acc FC. Both are being rewarded somehow too similar but most smashers cant smash at OD9. The first one demands more real skill to smash than the 2nd one and OD pp differences starts being considerable at 95% and above.

Another topic, patterns with complicated streams and tricky patterns like Shounen Radio - neu at gold difficulty are not well rewarded because being just OD7 and FC. The general ranking on that map is somehow bad by allowing me doing a 94,30% acc with just 1 miss at the last circle, allowing me to get the #529th place on the map ranking. I can be sure that really low persons have this map at best performances list as a no mod play because being too harsh and low rewarding one. To be honest, I find that map a lot harder and less rewarding than maps like Redstar or even Nuko World insane at being less effort efficent, mostly because they have more tappable elements and OD7.5 instead of just OD7.
GhostFrog

DroidBass wrote:

I am not sure at all, but 90ish% FC accuracy at OD9 seems to not have a considerable bonus compared to OD7 90s% acc FC. Both are being rewarded somehow too similar but most smashers cant smash at OD9. The first one demands more real skill to smash than the 2nd one and OD pp differences starts being considerable at 95% and above.
You get pretty much no accuracy pp for 90%, even on OD9. 90% is really low acc and remember, 90% doesn't even mean 90%: pp only looks at your circle accuracy. If a map is 2/3 circles, 90% overall accuracy is only 85% circle accuracy.

Another topic, patterns with complicated streams and tricky patterns like Shounen Radio - neu at gold difficulty are not well rewarded because being just OD7 and FC. The general ranking on that map is somehow bad by allowing me doing a 94,30% acc with just 1 miss at the last circle, allowing me to get the #529th place on the map ranking. I can be sure that really low persons have this map at best performances list as a no mod play because being too harsh and low rewarding one. To be honest, I find that map a lot harder and less rewarding than maps like Redstar or even Nuko World insane at being less effort efficent, mostly because they have more tappable elements and OD7.5 instead of just OD7.
You're really not getting much accuracy pp for 94.30% on OD7. This kind of problem could be solved a bit by having aim, speed, and accuracy separate like in osu!tp (shounen radio would be worth it because it would net you a bunch of speed pp), but that can't happen at the moment due to some sort of server space or performance concerns or something of that nature. Tricky patterns would still be a problem though. Pattern difficulty is something that's still being figured out with no ETA.
Vuelo Eluko

DroidBass wrote:

real skill to smash
Please read what you type
DroidBass

GhostFrog wrote:

You get pretty much no accuracy pp for 90%, even on OD9. 90% is really low acc and remember, 90% doesn't even mean 90%: pp only looks at your circle accuracy. If a map is 2/3 circles, 90% overall accuracy is only 85% circle accuracy.
I am already concient of this, but I guess they need ot enlarge a bit the differences between OD9 and OD7 if we are talking about low 90s%. Meanwhile OD+9 is very commonly seen at +98% accuracy at many peoples best performance list, the 90% acc at OD9 is more rare to see at a performance list compared to a 90% FC at OD7. Most low accuracy FC no mods are frequently OD7 plays.

GhostFrog wrote:

You're really not getting much accuracy pp for 94.30% on OD7. This kind of problem could be solved a bit by having aim, speed, and accuracy separate like in osu!tp (shounen radio would be worth it because it would net you a bunch of speed pp), but that can't happen at the moment due to some sort of server space or performance concerns or something of that nature. Tricky patterns would still be a problem though. Pattern difficulty is something that's still being figured out with no ETA.
Yup, but the problem is that this case of shounen radio - neu at gold is a very weird one in which people gain lower accuracy at OD7 patterns than on OD8 patterns of higher bpm compared to some other maps of equivalent stars that I personally find a lot easier. Will be hard to fix but it is always wonderful seing some justice being done.
Xyhalion
Hello there , what is about calculating , how HARD a map is ( i mean Reading ) , best example is scarlet rose by val0108 , the map has 5,19 * , but is way harder to play than other maps in the same * difficult range
Vuelo Eluko
sliders underrated + there's no algorithm for reading difficulty im sure this has been covered at least a dozen times in this thread orz
B1rd
Tom is really stubborn about not touching sliders.
silmarilen
more like he is really stubborn about not completely breaking star rating.
dont you think that if there was an easy way to fix scarlet rose (and other alternating maps) he would have done that ages ago?
B1rd

silmarilen wrote:

more like he is really stubborn about not completely breaking star rating.
dont you think that if there was an easy way to fix scarlet rose (and other alternating maps) he would have done that ages ago?
How is buffing sliders difficult to do or going to break the star rating? Like other people have mentioned, just increase the calculated cursor route from the absolute minimum possible (I think that's what it is now) to something more than that. The only explanation Tom has given for why he hasn't done this is that it would 'make repeat sliders OP' without giving any further explanation about why this is the case.
Although one of the problem with Scarlet Rose is the low spacing, it highlights how much more difficult it to read and aim sliders than the pp system takes into account. https://osu.ppy.sh/b/327164 Or here is another example. I literally cannot FC without getting a 100 on every slider, yet it's only 4.34 stars.
silmarilen

silmarilen wrote:

dont you think that if there was an easy way to fix scarlet rose (and other alternating maps) he would have done that ages ago?
B1rd
SPOILER

B1rd wrote:

How is buffing sliders difficult to do or going to break the star rating? Like other people have mentioned, just increase the calculated cursor route from the absolute minimum possible (I think that's what it is now) to something more than that. The only explanation Tom has given for why he hasn't done this is that it would 'make repeat sliders OP' without giving any further explanation about why this is the case.
Although one of the problem with Scarlet Rose is the low spacing, it highlights how much more difficult it to read and aim sliders than the pp system takes into account. https://osu.ppy.sh/b/327164 Or here is another example. I literally cannot FC without getting a 100 on every slider, yet it's only 4.34 stars.
Granger

B1rd wrote:

The only explanation Tom has given for why he hasn't done this is that it would 'make repeat sliders OP' without giving any further explanation about why this is the case.
I wouldnt think this actually needs any further explaination, but okay, ill give you a few examples and explain.

Using extetreme slidervelocity as example. x3.5 for both sliders.


Okay we have a looong and weird slider and a repeatslider which is just as long but you can hold it comfortably at the middle.

The black line is how actual gameplay might look.

The blue line is the current algorythm, assume minimal movement.
As you can see, the first weird slider more or less plays like a circle for this algorythm, which underrates it greathly. However the Movement for the repeat slider matches the movement from actual gameplay almost perfectly, as it should.

The other extreme, "perfect" movement is exactly as the slider is mapped, in green.
Look at the long slider, its great! The algorythm sees that this slider is hard as f, overrates it a bit though. Then... oh... my... god. The repeat slider seems just as hard for this algorythm, overrating it to space and beyond. It seems several magnitudes harder than it actually plays.

Then the last line in orange assumes some medium. (i assumed medium as half of the current slider followcircle diameter, and then used shortest movement possible on that, which is how a program could do it)
The long slider looks okay. Gets close to actual gameplay. However the repeat slider still seems several magnitudes harder than what it plays like. Whats worse, it actually might seem harder than the long slider to the algorythm, absoulutely unacceptable.

Now you might think, what if we assume minimal movement if there are repeats present and else use medium movement... well that would solve this situation but got other problems in itself, not all sliders with repeats are like those hold sliders, which would mean we just pushed the problem to other sliders instead of solving it.
B1rd
Well I see now, but I don't think that the problem is that hard to solve. I mean, now Tom's talking about making some sort of algorithm for calculating pattern difficulty, but balancing repeat sliders is too hard?

I haven't done any tests, but I can't imagine them being too OP when I think a slightly closer path would look something more like this..

But really the issue isn't fast repeat sliders or the rare high velocity sliders with weird patterns, it's shorter jumpy sliders at higher BPMs where the sliders add way more difficulty to aim and especially reading compared to circles. So I don't care about how the the algorithm calculates the movement within the slider, which isn't a big factor in gameplay, it can stay the same. What I care about is how early the algorithm releases the slider and moves to the next object. This is an example of what I'm thinking of:

Currently slider patterns like the one above give barely any difficulty increase according to the algorithm than circles would. As an example I did a test- I deleted everything except the starting section of Scarlet Rose and replaced all sliders with circles. The star difficulty went from 4.13 to 4.14... wtf!?
So with the change like the once above it wouldn't affect repeat sliders, it would just keep to the slider's path slightly longer. While a small increase, this would greatly amplify the speed of the jumps between high BPM fast slider patterns like the one above to properly reflect the difficulty.
Vuelo Eluko
if sliders ever get weighting im betting emerald sword DT will be the next map everyone tries to do for 600PP. having tried it myself i believe it might actually be possible if people are given the incentive.

make it happen tom
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