Performance Points feedback and suggestions (Standard)

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Nyxa
Eh I agree with that last sentence, but how would you adapt the scoring system in a way that wouldn't piss more than half the game off, or that would still keep things somewhat similar to how they used to be? We all know that most players are hardly informed and can't handle an unexpected change like that.

Also aside from HT I wonder what others think of the scoring I proposed. I thought it was a pretty solid way of weighing one mod against the other.
Rinzee

Tess wrote:

Also aside from HT I wonder what others think of the scoring I proposed. I thought it was a pretty solid way of weighing one mod against the other.

Riince wrote:

Spun-out should be 1.0x because no real advantage to using it anyway. On easy maps you're penalized enough by the spin being abysmally slow, on harder maps no competent players have an issue with notes coming after spinners.

Tess wrote:

SO should be 1.0x because what Riince said.
As a player that is forced to use Spun-Out due to a physical disability in the arm/hand i'm holding my tablet pen in preventing me from being able to even get 200 RPM on spinners as a rank 20k, i would love if Spun-Out didn't give me -5% pp on every score i ever get. It really hurts my top performances by alot. Not only that, using Spun-Out, i will never be able to get into top 50s on maps even if my Acc % happened to be better, as Spun-Out also gives -10% score reduction.

I know why spinners exist and i'm not saying there's anything wrong with them, but they don't have a rhythmical aspect to them and for me personally, it just feels wrong i am being punished for not being able to do them in a rhythm game. :| If nothing else, it would at least be nice to see the penalty slightly reduced.
Vuelo Eluko
There should be no pp/score penalty, spinners act as a break in the song, participation should be optional, but imo should stay optimal, i.e spun-out should still spin slow compared to players like it already does. People who want to min-max their score should have the option, people who dont want the arrhythmic spinners that dont impact difficulty one way or the other should also have the option.

The downsides of spun-out that have already been mentioned are enough of a penalty already, not to mention since you aren't spinning, there's no way to make some sick 470 rpm drain-stalling spin at the end of shotgun senorita for example that saves a play.
Torrid
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Yauxo
Dunno if that's been suggested already, but Iam not gonna read through 100+ pages.

Can we give FL some sort of lenght scaling?
I was kinda suprised that the FL score by rrtyui on https://osu.ppy.sh/b/541990?m=0 only gave 235pp, which is pretty much nothing.
I know that FL gives a big bonus on aim and that the map apparently isnt all that aim-y, but it is long and there is a shitload of things to remember, which makes it extremely difficult.

In general, more objects are obviously more difficult to remember. Easy/Normal would probably still give the usual FL pp, Hard a bit more, Insane and Extra would receive a bonus. Doesnt sound too bad to me.
xGx
 
Bauxe

Yauxo wrote:

Dunno if that's been suggested already, but Iam not gonna read through 100+ pages.

Can we give FL some sort of lenght scaling?
I was kinda suprised that the FL score by rrtyui on https://osu.ppy.sh/b/541990?m=0 only gave 235pp, which is pretty much nothing.
I know that FL gives a big bonus on aim and that the map apparently isnt all that aim-y, but it is long and there is a shitload of things to remember, which makes it extremely difficult.

In general, more objects are obviously more difficult to remember. Easy/Normal would probably still give the usual FL pp, Hard a bit more, Insane and Extra would receive a bonus. Doesnt sound too bad to me.
The sliders are what makes that map difficult. I guess changing the way FL is calculated on sliders due to visibility would make sense, but even so, flashlight is mostly memorization, not physical skill. Don't take that the wrong way, all I am saying is that with enough time, any map that can be full-comboed can be done with flashlight. The buff it gives can't be too big imo.
hehe


do slider 100s really play that much of an impact such that they have a higher penalty than circle 100s even on higher-end accuracy? even though its a really small difference i found it a little weird :/

https://osu.ppy.sh/b/442221?m=0
Akari-

handsome wrote:



do slider 100s really play that much of an impact such that they have a higher penalty than circle 100s even on higher-end accuracy? even though its a really small difference i found it a little weird :/

https://osu.ppy.sh/b/442221?m=0
ppdiff = 393.16 - 392.63 = 0.53

combo ratio = 467 / 468 = 0.9979

if combo linearly gave pp from 0 to max then this would give 393.16 * 0.9979 = 392.33

393.16 - 392.33 = 0.83

but ppdiff is only 0.53 meaning that (assuming linear combo scaling) it scales at 0.53 / 0.83 = 64% which is within the range of 45-65% combo scaling displayed in this thread: (http://www.reddit.com/r/osugame/comment ... combo_and/)

pretty sure nothing changes just because it's a slider 100 and that everything is working as intended
Nyxa

Bauxe wrote:

Yauxo wrote:

Dunno if that's been suggested already, but Iam not gonna read through 100+ pages.

Can we give FL some sort of lenght scaling?
I was kinda suprised that the FL score by rrtyui on https://osu.ppy.sh/b/541990?m=0 only gave 235pp, which is pretty much nothing.
I know that FL gives a big bonus on aim and that the map apparently isnt all that aim-y, but it is long and there is a shitload of things to remember, which makes it extremely difficult.

In general, more objects are obviously more difficult to remember. Easy/Normal would probably still give the usual FL pp, Hard a bit more, Insane and Extra would receive a bonus. Doesnt sound too bad to me.
The sliders are what makes that map difficult. I guess changing the way FL is calculated on sliders due to visibility would make sense, but even so, flashlight is mostly memorization, not physical skill. Don't take that the wrong way, all I am saying is that with enough time, any map that can be full-comboed can be done with flashlight. The buff it gives can't be too big imo.
The fact that memorizing a map with FL makes it FCable doesn't mean FL should be rewarded less, especially considering that, with the amount of retries put into FL, it wouldn't be so hard to get a high acc HR FC on a map you previously couldn't pass either. What Yauxo said is legit; the longer a map is, the harder it is to FC with FL, regardless of memorization or not. Even if you have the map memorized, you gotta keep in account that you have to aim at nothing, and the longer you have to do that the higher your chances of missing are.

There's a lot more to FL than just memorization, but sadly most players don't seem to agree.
Woobowiz
I had an idea regarding more info porn. Is it viable to split pp rankings into 3 sub categories using the 3 weighted metrics (Aim, Speed, and Acc) for calculating pp? I know it'll put a little more load on the servers if we did this...

Let's say Player X is an HDHR player with 10209 pp and their sub categories consist of 1900 Aim, 1200 Speed, and 2200 Accuracy

And then there's Player Y that is an HDDT player with 10209 pp as well and their sub categories consist of 1900 Aim, 2200 Speed, and 1200 Accuracy

From this we can see that even tho Players X and Y are equal in pp, they have their own noticeable strengths and weaknesses.
jasian

Woobowiz wrote:

I had an idea regarding more info porn. Is it viable to split pp rankings into 3 sub categories using the 3 weighted metrics (Aim, Speed, and Acc) for calculating pp? I know it'll put a little more load on the servers if we did this...
Pretty much what osutp.net did before it changed, though things would have to be adjusted for ppv2 of course ;)

http://web.archive.org/web/201311051214 ... et/players
jesse1412

Woobowiz wrote:

I had an idea regarding more info porn. Is it viable to split pp rankings into 3 sub categories using the 3 weighted metrics (Aim, Speed, and Acc) for calculating pp? I know it'll put a little more load on the servers if we did this...

Let's say Player X is an HDHR player with 10209 pp and their sub categories consist of 1900 Aim, 1200 Speed, and 2200 Accuracy

And then there's Player Y that is an HDDT player with 10209 pp as well and their sub categories consist of 1900 Aim, 2200 Speed, and 1200 Accuracy

From this we can see that even tho Players X and Y are equal in pp, they have their own noticeable strengths and weaknesses.
This would triple the load on the servers (ty based tom) and hence it's not viable to implement as of now.
B1rd
I don't understand why Tom is so up in arms against how much PP World's End gives. It goes for over 6 minutes, has large jumps through the whole map, has high OD and spaced streams as well. It seems pretty logical that it gives the amount of PP that it does; it's not because long songs give too much PP, easy to read songs give too much PP. If it was a hard to read, it probably wouldn't give enough for the difficulty. Song length does not need a nerf, and neither do the common HR maps.
Also Tom mentioned that he want to make PP less combo based. IMO this is a radical change, I think it's fine as it is. Thoughts?
GoldenWolf
World's End is overrated, it gives way too much pp for how hard it actually is.
Rewben2

GoldenWolf wrote:

World's End is overrated, it gives way too much pp for how hard it actually is.
Seems to be the case, everyone who has HDHR'd it has it as their top play or close to it.
B1rd
yeah that's pretty obvious, but my point is that song length shouldn't be nerfed just because of World's End.
jesse1412

B1rd wrote:

yeah that's pretty obvious, but my point is that song length shouldn't be nerfed just because of World's End.
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/136862
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/133693
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/293193?m=0
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/447179?m=0
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/184308?m=0

Medium length songs are being grossly overrated too.

Summer time music gives up to 400pp and it's easier than a lot of 300pp maps.
Infevo
I can understand that a higher combo gets rewarded with higher pp values since it is a matter of focus and consistency but why is it that 2 misses at the very end of the beginning right after/before a huge combo don't really matter while 1 miss at around 50% of the map denies you almost all pp?

Imho the system should still reward a high number of hit circles with high accuracy partially disregarding the max combo during a map. Maybe don't give as high rewards but at least like 70-80% of the pp. Currently a high combo with a worse acc (95%) is rewarded much higher than a low combo with high accuracy.
manjumochi

Infevo wrote:

I can understand that a higher combo gets rewarded with higher pp values since it is a matter of focus and consistency but why is it that 2 misses at the very end of the beginning right after/before a huge combo don't really matter while 1 miss at around 50% of the map denies you almost all pp?

Imho the system should still reward a high number of hit circles with high accuracy partially disregarding the max combo during a map. Maybe don't give as high rewards but at least like 70-80% of the pp. Currently a high combo with a worse acc (95%) is rewarded much higher than a low combo with high accuracy.
This is mostly a flaw of scoring system instead of pp system... And keeping a large combo is way harder than getting 2 medium combos, especially saying from psychological way.
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