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Performance Points feedback and suggestions (Standard)

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Nyxa
Suggestion unrelated to any previous discussion - does anyone else think it would be a good idea to have a #pp channel in-game? I mean, this thread has been going on for a while, it's clear that, since pp is constantly evolving, it will be constantly discussed. Maybe live discussion of it wouldn't be such a bad idea. Just a suggestion. After looking at that other thread, it just seems like a lot of people have questions about pp and have things they'd like to discuss about it, and plenty of people seem interested, so, I think this might be a pretty beneficial idea.

Opinions?
Gigo
Uhm... can't you just discuss pp-related stuff here? That's why this thread was created in the first place. Why is a separate channel needed? I really don't see a point.
Nyxa
Because channels are faster than threads. With your argument ("Can't you just discuss it on the forums?") any IRC channel would be obsolete, because a forum thread could be made for it. However, this thread is nearing 100 pages. For how much longer do you intend to keep it going, anyway?
GoldenWolf

Tess wrote:

However, this thread is nearing 100 pages. For how much longer do you intend to keep it going, anyway?
For as long as people aren't 100% happy with the current pp system and they see potential changes that would make it more accurate
Nyxa
Which is for a long time. Well, it was just a suggestion, i think it might be useful.
Makan1
I really dislike the idea of pp based scoreboards, I don't see it working exceptionally well.
First it would make FL even more useless
Second it could make a lot of even scores of popular maps which everyone hdhr SS

I guess this feature can be applicable to supporter leaderboards but I don't see the point of it at all unless its only for seeing how much pp this play is worth, then that can just be added somewhere under the actual score with the combo and such.

FL players work extremely hard only to get 1st on a map and it seems unfair.
Zare

Makan1 wrote:

Second it could make a lot of even scores of popular maps which everyone hdhr SS

Makan1 wrote:

everyone hdhr SS

Makan1 wrote:

everyone

Makan1 wrote:

hdhr SS
:^)
Makan1

Zare wrote:

Makan1 wrote:

Second it could make a lot of even scores of popular maps which everyone hdhr SS

Makan1 wrote:

everyone hdhr SS

Makan1 wrote:

everyone

Makan1 wrote:

hdhr SS
:^)
Gahhhhhh you know what I meant. Not 'everyone' but people who are 'ok' at the game.
Actually fuck that, how about a easy map where everyone SS with 4 mods for top 50
D:<
What if it were the case where it was easy to SS with hdhr but too fast of a Bpm to do on DT :o
........... Guess maps that fast are hard to SS anyways, yea.
Ok only easy maps or In the future where everyone it godlike
Genki1000
I'm actually more concerned about maps like this

https://osu.ppy.sh/b/85675&m=0
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/66359&m=0

where people deliberately take off HR to gain more spinner bonus.

PP scoreboards will completely reset the rankings those kind of maps
Vuelo Eluko

Genki1000 wrote:

I'm actually more concerned about maps like this

https://osu.ppy.sh/b/85675&m=0
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/66359&m=0

where people deliberately take off HR to gain more spinner bonus.

PP scoreboards will completely reset the rankings those kind of maps
the scoring system should already discourage this kind of crap. it will become first come first serve and the randoms spinning their way onto scoreboards on 1 star maps that anyone can FC on their first day instead of properly progressing or playing maps their level will be encouraged to do so. Sure there's no 'right' way to play osu! but does the system really need to reward such a stagnant playstyle?
laref
Just store the highest score and highest pp play separately. Say you got a hrhd SS and an sliderbreak DT on remote control. The hrhd would have the highest score, therefore it being the one displayed in the map's leaderboard. The DT score would be the highest pp one of the two, so it would be the one being used for the calculation of the user's total pp.

Might have been mentioned already, but this is the way I'd do it.

I don't really see a good enough point in implementing some kind of special leaderboards for pp plays. The way you can view specific mod plays on a song (as supporter) is pretty much enough in my opinion. Just start saving two plays of each map diff: highest score, highest pp.
Full Tablet

ntaig wrote:

Just store the highest score and highest pp play separately. Say you got a hrhd SS and an sliderbreak DT on remote control. The hrhd would have the highest score, therefore it being the one displayed in the map's leaderboard. The DT score would be the highest pp one of the two, so it would be the one being used for the calculation of the user's total pp.

Might have been mentioned already, but this is the way I'd do it.

I don't really see a good enough point in implementing some kind of special leaderboards for pp plays. The way you can view specific mod plays on a song (as supporter) is pretty much enough in my opinion. Just start saving two plays of each map diff: highest score, highest pp.
p/1736817 (feature request made when ppv1 was still new).
ivan
x
jesse1412

Genki1000 wrote:

I'm actually more concerned about maps like this

https://osu.ppy.sh/b/85675&m=0
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/66359&m=0

where people deliberately take off HR to gain more spinner bonus.

PP scoreboards will completely reset the rankings those kind of maps
As it should do???

Makan1 wrote:

FL players work extremely hard only to get 1st on a map and it seems unfair.
So do DT players and HR players and HD pla-... wait a second...
Makan1
Yeah but it's different methods of working hard. When your skill is already high like snowwhite, he can FC hddt a map in 1-3 tries. FL is actually working hard for a map just for #1 or a high rank. You never use FL so you don't know but when you put a retarded amount of time to do FL on a 1000+ combo map then you might understand how deserving the first place actually is.

Look at Heiwana's play on yoiyami hanabi and you can't deny that it's a billion times more impressive than the hdhr score.
If you have issues with hdfl beating hddt then be like cookiezi and SS like on fake me science XD
GoldenWolf

Makan1 wrote:

Yeah but it's different methods of working hard. When your skill is already high like snowwhite, he can FC hddt a map in 1-3 tries. FL is actually working hard for a map just for #1 or a high rank.
That's the thing, FL in itself does not make you better at the game generally (you could argue it helps with snapping and stuff, but I really don't see it helping much about it) unlike other mods (DT, HR, HD and even EZ), so I don't think FL should be rewarded even more than it actually is (50% bonus flat on aim is already huge enough...)
jesse1412

Makan1 wrote:

Yeah but it's different methods of working hard. When your skill is already high like snowwhite, he can FC hddt a map in 1-3 tries. FL is actually working hard for a map just for #1 or a high rank. You never use FL so you don't know but when you put a retarded amount of time to do FL on a 1000+ combo map then you might understand how deserving the first place actually is.

Look at Heiwana's play on yoiyami hanabi and you can't deny that it's a billion times more impressive than the hdhr score.
If you have issues with hdfl beating hddt then be like cookiezi and SS like on fake me science XD
Again, you can put a weeks worth of effort into a map and a year of standard practice and take rank 1 while it would take 4 years of standard practice to do the same with DT. DT requires more effort in the long run and hence SHOULD be worth more than FL.
Makan1
But DT is already worth more than FL currently?? Did I miss something and FL got a buff.

*add on edit
What if rrtyui decides to use FL and take #1 on a map? I've actually spectated him doing it and would your argument work then?
* actually it doesn't relate too much....
Also I don't see why people taking 1 with FL is a problem because it doesn't reflect on the actual rankings too much.
BluOxy #3 ppv1 to 120+
Yoshilove rank ~250 ppv1 to 1000+ so it's actually pretty good if you ask me
Does it matter if the 2 score is DT BUT you get ~50 more pp than the FL play and you rise to a much higher rank anyway. It would have made sense complaining in ppv1 but in ppv2, things have changed
Zare
you're continuously missing the point
what ppv2 measures is "what does this score tell me about the player's clicking speed, aim speed & precision and clicking accuracy"
a FL score on long maps is always impressive because of the mental aspect, but the actual, physical difficulty of the map doesn't really increase.
The score is only impressive for itself, because evidently a lot of effort went into it. But the player getting that score didn't gain any kind of physical strength he can use in other maps, his actual >skill< doesn't improve from getting that score
Rewben2
Damn this flashlight talk has been going down forever

It all comes down to whether you think that pp - your ranking compared to the rest of the community as a player - should be based off how much effort went into a score or how good the player is. I think the latter is quite clearly the way to go, isn't the whole purpose of a ranking system to give better players a higher rank? All we can base this off is scores, creating a system which can be manipulated to make scores appear good just because a lot of time went into it is not the way to go.
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