[Tom94] Slightly reduce value of aim and slightly increase value of accuracy in osu! standard.
lewa rank 1 on next play hype?...
lewa rank 1 on next play hype?...
HR scores might be SLIGHTLY underrated, but the pp they give is well-deserved. The reason for playing HR is if you feel that your accuracy is sufficient that you can perform better than you would nomod. Getting 96% accuracy doesn't actually mean much when you're playing HR, where, as you said, the OD is what's most important. At that accuracy, the HR pp bonus would be mostly from the smaller CS (+aim pp), and the accuracy bonus would probably be very negligible, comparable to a 98.5%+ OD8 nomod. What I'm trying to say here, if you still don't get it, is that HR gives sufficient pp if you are able to maintain high accuracy. The effort required to get 96% HR FC, is equivalent to at regular DT FC.Tess wrote:
In both these cases, the HR scores were much harder to obtain than the DT scores - and most people around my rank have a much lower accuracy on HR than I do. I've been playing with HR for months, and still get more pp for DT scores that are easier to get. Especially Koigokoro (that we all know is overrated), where I didn't get anything near an FC and got less than 94% on, which is worth more than a higher AR/OD/CS 96.45% FC with HD on top of that. It doesn't really make sense. Everybody seems to know now that AR8 DT jump maps give pp way too easily, while high OD/AR/CS don't really live up to their difficulty in terms of pp. Obviously, DT should give more pp on the same map than HR, but the relative difference in difficulty x reward between maps is much too unbalanced in my opinion.
I think that OD specifically should be given more of a boost. People who can play with HR generally have no trouble with the AR, and the HP change is irrelevant for a pp-worthy FC. CS should definitely matter, but if we're working in an accuracy-based system, higher ODs with high accuracy should be rewarded more than high speeds with low OD (where it's much easier to get high accuracy), and obviously the two combined should be a very rewarding combo.
Also, another thing.
HD gives no pp at all.
Really.
First of all, what is a "regular" DT FC? That's a pretty broad term you're using there. Second, if you'd say that "Regular" DT FC would be 97% on an AR8 Insane, then I disagree. It is much easier to maintain high accuracy with DT than it is with HR (unless the map is OD7 or lower). I'm quite sure that there are many more players able to get a 97% DT FC on an AR8 Insane than there are players who can get a 96% HR FC on an AR9 Insane. Then again, I'm also using pretty broad terms here, since Yakujinsama no Couple Dance is AR8 and nobody has FC'd that with DT as far as I know.handsome wrote:
The effort required to get 96% HR FC, is equivalent to at regular DT FC.
Fixed that for you.Bassist Vinyl wrote:
lewaBikko rank 1 on next play hype?...
wait, so i just lost 30pp because of this or what? o_osilmarilen wrote:
read the changelog https://osu.ppy.sh/p/changeloghandsome wrote:
did something get recalcualted
Yes. I'm pretty sure it was a nerf to everyone's pp though, so your rank may not have even gone down. It hasn't updated for everyone yet. I'm yet to see someone who actually gained pp from the update.NazzzF wrote:
wait, so i just lost 30pp because of this or what? o_o
I know that was the updates intention, I just thought that maybe aim was nerfed more than acc was buffed so no one saw a pp increase. Guess I was wrong.silmarilen wrote:
i gained 9pp
people who are more focused on acc than on aim gained pp
Zare wrote:
>people knowing their exact amount of pp
I would like to expand on this because it's an interesting point that tends to get a bit overlooked in discussions of HR pp.handsome wrote:
The reason for playing HR is if you feel that your accuracy is sufficient that you can perform better than you would nomod.
Well it must. There's no way the scores will remain the same but our total pp changing lol, unless there is a change to how total pp/weighting works, which isn't what the update is doing.Bassist Vinyl wrote:
question when will our top ranks change around a bit to reflect the new pp value?
Is it really so hard to take note that there's been a change to how pp works and then playing a song and looking at the difference? No knowing your pp involved.Zare wrote:
>people knowing their exact amount of pp
I lost 11ppBassist Vinyl wrote:
[Tom94] Slightly reduce value of aim and slightly increase value of accuracy in osu! standard.
lewa rank 1 on next play hype?...
dragonhuman losing 100+ ppthelewa wrote:
I lost 11ppBassist Vinyl wrote:
[Tom94] Slightly reduce value of aim and slightly increase value of accuracy in osu! standard.
lewa rank 1 on next play hype?...
what part of SLIGHTLY do you not understand
I'd just like to note, that basing the formula on a normal distribution is still something I want to do at some point.GhostFrog wrote:
[great explanation]handsome wrote:
The reason for playing HR is if you feel that your accuracy is sufficient that you can perform better than you would nomod.
this post should be linked everytime someone says hr is underratedGhostFrog wrote:
bunch of text
tl;dr: if you can't SS a map without HR, don't expect it to give you anything but aim pp.
It explains why things are the way they are very well, but this assumption quoted is not true as far as I know (?? not sure, correct me if I'm wrong), and that would be part of the reason why people have a hard time getting pp from HR unless they can keep the number of 100s they're getting with it to a comparable amount (since in that case they're getting the aim pp, and they're getting more or at least not much less acc pp). If the quoted assumption is not true, that would mean lower accs on high ODs are in fact a bit undervalued.GhostFrog wrote:
assuming the system is making reasonable assumptions and using reasonable formulas, you should be getting the same amount of accuracy pp on OD10 as you would on OD8 unless you can SS the map on OD8.
j/w if/when it will happen, because it seems weird that some of my highest yield scores that also have abysmal acc havent changed at all yet 16 total pp did...Bassist Vinyl wrote:
question when will our top ranks change around a bit to reflect the new pp value?
There is a big difference between certain accuracy on OD9 and the same accuracy on OD7.Neroh wrote:
Not sure if this has been said already but, I feel like some ar9 maps just aren't giving enough PP. DT seems to be the only way to get good amounts recently.
For example, this map on eXtra, https://osu.ppy.sh/b/231917?m=0 got me 217pp, which is a lot really.
Yet if I was to FC this map on FREEDOM (a lot harder) https://osu.ppy.sh/b/283705?m=0 with similar accuracy, I'd only get 220pp.
It leaves me with no option of rank gains for some of these maps even though they take a lot of skill to full combo.
I have no idea how much work goes into making the PP system work, but I'm grateful for what you have done. Sorry if I'm asking the impossible haha ^^
Have a look at the star rating, it's 3.47. I took a look at the plays from near the bottom of your top performances and there's Mizutani Runa - Philosophyz, which has a star rating of 3.58. It was also a higher acc score than your tear rain and an fc and both the songs are od8. Star rating is a good indication of how much pp a map will give.Cinagro wrote:
Not nearly at a high level, but just dropping this here for anybody that could enlighten me on this a bit.
I nearly full combod https://osu.ppy.sh/b/351513?m=0 yesterday, playing me at around ~#400 for the song. I expected a few pp out of it, but I didn't get anything. Is this because the star difficulty/ppv2 calculated difficulty for the song is incredibly low compared to all my other "top ranks"? If so, what is factored into the star rating system?
I could give it an evaluation too. I've seen thousands of "less than a 1 minute" replays, which are given around 240-260+ pps. Ofc they are with DT mods. So here's the fact. It is really easy to farm pp with short 140-170 bpm maps. You put DT on them, and whoala 1 minute fun for a ton of pp and I guess the 2 or 3 minute ones are given the same amount of pp as I've seen :/xasuma wrote:
I am not sure how important the length of the maps is in the algorithm. But I am feeling length should be weighted slightly higher. (It shows consistency)
Sometimes I feel that it doesn't matter much if the map is 1:30 minutes long, or 3 minutes long. (I am sure it does matter) Just that long songs are harder just because of the amount of time you need to stay focused at once.
Just a thought.
i dont know, if i compare maps of equal star diff but different lengths i get a different feeling. for example comparing this with this, the TV Sized map is just more difficult than any 1:30 "section" you could cut out of the longer one. In fact, if it weren't for the build-up on the last kiai + the kiai itself i would say its star diff was a bit too high.xasuma wrote:
I am not sure how important the length of the maps is in the algorithm. But I am feeling length should be weighted slightly higher. (It shows consistency)
Sometimes I feel that it doesn't matter much if the map is 1:30 minutes long, or 3 minutes long. (I am sure it does matter) Just that long songs are harder just because of the amount of time you need to stay focused at once.
Just a thought.
So basically, you think longer maps should be worth more pp? A lot of the top plays I see aren't even tv size though, there is 3+ minute songs in the mix. I think map length in relation to pp is fine as it is.higurush wrote:
I could give it an evaluation too. I've seen thousands of "less than a 1 minute" replays, which are given around 240-260+ pps. Ofc they are with DT mods. So here's the fact. It is really easy to farm pp with short 140-170 bpm maps. You put DT on them, and whoala 1 minute fun for a ton of pp and I guess the 2 or 3 minute ones are given the same amount of pp as I've seen :/
Maybe they should worth more in some cases.Rewben2 wrote:
So basically, you think longer maps should be worth more pp? A lot of the top plays I see aren't even tv size though, there is 3+ minute songs in the mix. I think map length in relation to pp is fine as it is.
I think longer maps are better for more consistent players and tv-size is more beneficial for people who spam retry maps and maybe aren't as consistent to keep up a good play for a longer time. Some people would be simply better at one style than the other, I think it's quite balanced.
copypasting the same map 3 times makes the star rating go up, it's just that the amount it rises is weightedhigurush wrote:
Let's say there is a TV size map+DT - it will be around 1 minute - and there's a longer version+DT - it will be around 3 minutes. Let's say the two maps contain the same elements (longer version = play tv size 3 times). The pp evaluator will say it will be the same difficulty, because everything is the same and will give the same amount of pp for both of them.
Then the "do the same as the crowd" method really is there.- [ U z z I ] - wrote:
There isn't a rank bonus anymore...
So you think it is the same as with Approach Rate? AR9=AR10 in star difficulty. (this AR stuff is okay though)xasuma wrote:
Well its just a matter of looking at most people's top play's length. I just think it's slightly underrated.
As someone said above, it would be better for people who are more consistent, that is exactly my point. Being consistent should earn you something, it's a skill not just a play style option.
Right? Lol