Performance Points feedback and suggestions (Standard)

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Akari-

haha5957 wrote:

i understand that my strong point might be medium bpm stream and weakpoint might be fast SV.

I still think High SV maps are underrated. Popular Emerald sword and Strangeprogram, Dance number, scarlet rose, even myself's map those have 2.88SV feels way too hard compared to maps that have same difficulty. This is why I am "discussing" this here. Is it just that I suck at fast SV and maybe little better on medium bpm streams? Like i said, I see nearly no doubletime on emerald sword Intense difficulty which barely has 3 star difficulty. Dance number, scarlet rose is famous for its insanity but it doesnt even have extra difficulty. They have fast SV in common.
yeah high SV maps are underrated because sliders are almost a nonfactor in difficulty calculation (calculation assumes that movement to and from a slider is 100% optimal iirc) and it doesn't help that high bpm singles are underrated unless they have big spacing like some of WWW's scores

this is a difficult issue to fix though, hard sliders are the exception and not the norm, and it would be tricky to calculate the difference between spaced streams, tolerable bpm singles, and high bpm singles
haha5957
It would be much easier to help out if we could know how actually slider difficulty is calculated because I really think high SV maps (or map with complex slider rhythm) are way too underrated. I generally agree with the star rating difficulty but high SV centered maps are significantly underrated
GhostFrog
This might help you. I think the current iteration of the algorithm is the same up to overall scaling, but with exact values used where the code uses approximate values. I haven't actually looked through it, so no promises.

Also, it's very much a known issue that sliders are underrated. The difficulty lies in trying to fix that without breaking repeat sliders and sliderstreams.
Oskur
Although since the topic of single taps being undervalued to some extent came up, how much should we expect pp to change when/if a solution/change is applied to the algorithm? (relative value, i.e. "holy crap some people with have giant rank shifts" or "meh it'll affect some people but relative rankings should stay about same")
Topic Starter
Tom94

Oskur wrote:

Although since the topic of single taps being undervalued to some extent came up, how much should we expect pp to change when/if a solution/change is applied to the algorithm? (relative value, i.e. "holy crap some people with have giant rank shifts" or "meh it'll affect some people but relative rankings should stay about same")
Relative rankings should stay about the same since most people who are good got a lot of other good scores aside from these singletapping ones. Some people will profit, though.
Keep in mind, that this is one of the lowest priority aspects at the moment, since there are way more important things to do at a larger score and in the other modes.
Kert
I still suggest nerfing of DT (high speed or whatever) / increasing the profit from playing smaller circles, because this is just too silly





I also got absolutely nothing (it's not even in my top performance) for HR FC this thing which is very difficult https://osu.ppy.sh/s/8442
Zare
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/225490

Another: 5.36
Extra: 5.39

I FC'd the Extra. https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/1721589
The Another, on the other hand, is impossible to pass for me. I'm not saying the Another is rated too low, but the Extra is rated too high. Can you give less pp for OD7 sliderjumps please, they're really not hard compared to the CS5 OD8 deathstreams on Another.
GxArchery
Someone please explain this to me. I had like 1228pp and then after completing a song and beat my old score, I became 1213pp. My accuracy dropped like 0.31% even though in the song my accuracy only dropped by 4% compared to my old score. Now I'm having a hard time getting back ranks.
EroPudding
i have one question has it become harder to gain PP of maps?? i FC'd this map https://osu.ppy.sh/b/202072 with 97 % accuracy and it gave 0PP. i have also done a few long maps with 99% accuracy latley and not gaining any PP from them. it starting to bug me :(
AlphaFlow
I dont really get this, wont this elevate only the players who are really active? because not all of us can play alot,like ALOT (8-10) hours per day like some of osu players o mostly can sit 1-2hours, so wont this leave me and the other players who arent as active as th"active" players behind?
XGeneral2000

GxArchery wrote:

Someone please explain this to me. I had like 1228pp and then after completing a song and beat my old score, I became 1213pp. My accuracy dropped like 0.31% even though in the song my accuracy only dropped by 4% compared to my old score. Now I'm having a hard time getting back ranks.
4%? Like, 95% -> 91%? That's a lot. In fact, that example would be almost twice the 100/50 count. If you lost that much PP, it was probably one of your higher-ranking songs on which you had comparatively good accuracy. If you want it back, you need to beat your score again with the kind of accuracy you used to have on it.

valixas125 wrote:

I dont really get this, wont this elevate only the players who are really active? because not all of us can play alot,like ALOT (8-10) hours per day like some of osu players o mostly can sit 1-2hours, so wont this leave me and the other players who arent as active as th"active" players behind?
Obviously. This isn't the "No Player Left Behind Act." osu!'s not going to hand out participation awards so everyone can feel good about themselves. It's a leaderboard. A ranking. A measure of who is better than who. Of course someone that works harder is going to do better. You're telling me you want to look better than people who are pouring in vastly more time and effort than you? How is that fair at all?

If you want to have a good rank, work for it. If you can't, you'll have to deal with a lower rank. It's not like it changes the game and prevents you from playing or anything.
GxArchery

XGeneral2000 wrote:

4%? Like, 95% -> 91%? That's a lot. In fact, that example would be almost twice the 100/50 count. If you lost that much PP, it was probably one of your higher-ranking songs on which you had comparatively good accuracy. If you want it back, you need to beat your score again with the kind of accuracy you used to have on it.
No like 99% accuracy and I dropped to 95% with HD,HR mods on .
Vuelo Eluko

XGeneral2000 wrote:

Of course someone that works harder is going to do better.
not always true
i work harder than most people at my rank did to get here and a lot of people far above my rank had to try way less than me...

i know playcount isnt everything, i also have an insanely high number of total hits.

Free ranks for participation pls
Luna

GxArchery wrote:

XGeneral2000 wrote:

4%? Like, 95% -> 91%? That's a lot. In fact, that example would be almost twice the 100/50 count. If you lost that much PP, it was probably one of your higher-ranking songs on which you had comparatively good accuracy. If you want it back, you need to beat your score again with the kind of accuracy you used to have on it.
No like 99% accuracy and I dropped to 95% with HD,HR mods on .
That's even worse, 99 -> 95 means you got five times as many 100s. HDHR will not outweigh that much of a drop.
XGeneral2000

Bassist Vinyl wrote:

XGeneral2000 wrote:

Of course someone that works harder is going to do better.
not always true
i work harder than most people at my rank did to get here and a lot of people far above my rank had to try way less than me...

i know playcount isnt everything, i also have an insanely high number of total hits.

Free ranks for participation pls
Hard work vs talent issues aside, the point is that you can't complain about low rank if you're not even willing to put any time or effort into it. That's true for anything in life. Maybe you're a genius at something and can do in one hour what others would need to take 10 hours to do, but you can hardly complain if that doesn't turn out to be the case.
Akari-

Bassist Vinyl wrote:

XGeneral2000 wrote:

Of course someone that works harder is going to do better.
not always true
i work harder than most people at my rank did to get here and a lot of people far above my rank had to try way less than me...

i know playcount isnt everything, i also have an insanely high number of total hits.

Free ranks for participation pls

XGeneral2000 wrote:

Of course someone that works harder with the same amount of talent is going to do better.
that's a bit more accurate, right?

in any case, why should a measure of skill measure or take into account things that are not skill? i totally get where you're coming from, people have to work half as hard as me to get to my rank. so what? if the game provides free ranks for just playing and achieving nothing, it's not a measure of skill, it's welfare. this is a video game, not politics. genius or not, everyone has the potential to improve past their current state which means that you will get to where you want. eventually. with hard work. and if you don't want to work hard, just play some other game

if anything i just wish they removed the playcount display in this game, it's not needed for measuring skill and it's like wearing a big badge that says "i'm a goddamn retard, please spit at my feet"
Oskur
On the osu! subreddit, Tillerino made an analysis of pp here. It looks pretty accurate and sound, but the thing I want to address is the graphs he made for certain songs with pp value measured against combo and accuracy.





First of all, are these accurate by any means? I mean, it's shiny and colorful so it might be.
Second, regardless of whether or not it is accurate, would/could an idea like this be implemented officially in the future? It really makes understanding the pp value gained from completing certain maps really easy with this visual representation; essentially "PP for Dummies".
Full Tablet

Oskur wrote:

On the osu! subreddit, Tillerino made an analysis of pp here. It looks pretty accurate and sound, but the thing I want to address is the graphs he made for certain songs with pp value measured against combo and accuracy.





First of all, are these accurate by any means? I mean, it's shiny and colorful so it might be.
Second, regardless of whether or not it is accurate, would/could an idea like this be implemented officially in the future? It really makes understanding the pp value gained from completing certain maps really easy with this visual representation; essentially "PP for Dummies".
It is an approximation, it might be useful for estimating approximately how much pp a certain score is worth, in a way that is more simple than using the real formulas.
Miss_Han
I would like to know why my 'Best Performance' isn't changed when I, for example, have around a 98% using HR only, and then complete the same map at 100% or even 99.51% with just HR too. It's happened a few times with different maps in different situations, and I'm just wondering, how does this happen?
Luna
Your rank is still extremely low and the maps you are playing have very lenient OD (hit windows) with generally low object counts, so the bonus accuracy pp from those few 300s likely equates to less than 1.
Accuracy only becomes really important once you play more advanced maps.
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