That's not very encouraging honestly.
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Performance Points feedback and suggestions (Standard)
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It's to avoid people farming pp by getting scores around their average skill all the time. You only really get noticable increases from your absolute top performances.
It's not supposed to encourage you. It's there to reflect your skill level at the current time. The pp amount grows when you keep getting better and better scores, meaning that you are getting better and able to set those scores. Fun gameplay and getting better should be the encouragement and if isn't fun for you, you shouldn't really be playing it cause you will get burnt out and frustrated really quickly.
Topic Starter
That's not what that part of the wiki is supposed to say at all. It should just say, that beatmap length is measured is based on amount of hitobjects, not on time. It has exactly nothing to do with density, since a 5 minute map with 1000 hitobjects would get the same length bonus as a 1 minute map with 1000 hitobjects.Luna wrote:
Basically, high note density = hard, low density = easy
10 notes per second is harder than 5 notes per second
Simple stuff like that
I'll fix the last line of that section of the wiki. No idea what the person who added it was thinking when saying, that shorter beatmaps would be weighted more with the same amount of hitobjects. I didn't put that in originally.
I made a thread but then realized there was this thread so I nuked the other one. Just going to copy/paste it into here.
So how do you calculate star diffiuclty with mods, or is this a ppv2 wiki/future topic we will have to wait for? I'm curious as to how much it affects the star rating when adding DT / HR / HD so I can gauge more accurately how difficult a map is. Like say someone was to play this map https://osu.ppy.sh/s/132095 [Hard] with DT the star rating would go from 2.05 to ? as compared to playing HR+HD. HD and DT have static multipliers to the difficulty while HR has that ceiling effect (excluding CS) so I'd assume it's not something to be so easily calculated without using a program/the game?
So how do you calculate star diffiuclty with mods, or is this a ppv2 wiki/future topic we will have to wait for? I'm curious as to how much it affects the star rating when adding DT / HR / HD so I can gauge more accurately how difficult a map is. Like say someone was to play this map https://osu.ppy.sh/s/132095 [Hard] with DT the star rating would go from 2.05 to ? as compared to playing HR+HD. HD and DT have static multipliers to the difficulty while HR has that ceiling effect (excluding CS) so I'd assume it's not something to be so easily calculated without using a program/the game?
http://osutp.net/beatmapsDexus wrote:
I made a thread but then realized there was this thread so I nuked the other one. Just going to copy/paste it into here.
So how do you calculate star diffiuclty with mods, or is this a ppv2 wiki/future topic we will have to wait for? I'm curious as to how much it affects the star rating when adding DT / HR / HD so I can gauge more accurately how difficult a map is. Like say someone was to play this map https://osu.ppy.sh/s/132095 [Hard] with DT the star rating would go from 2.05 to ? as compared to playing HR+HD. HD and DT have static multipliers to the difficulty while HR has that ceiling effect (excluding CS) so I'd assume it's not something to be so easily calculated without using a program/the game?
Those aren't weighted the same due to various difficulty settings actually being factored into the star difficulty.
This will be easier to figure out when the game's internal star system gets updated and to work dynamically with the mods selected.
This will be easier to figure out when the game's internal star system gets updated and to work dynamically with the mods selected.
basically DT > HR > FL > HD. i'm not exactly sure what you mean by "various difficulty settings actually being factored into the star difficulty" since ppv2 is pretty much based of tp and hence the song's difficulty is the same. if you want to see what the mods do, tick the boxes and you can see how the level goes up. HD and FL just give bonus aim points (there are 3 components, aim(cursor), speed(mostly bpm) and accuracy (self explanatory)). an perfect FC give maximum speed and aim points, and more accuracy gives more accuracy points.Dexus wrote:
Those aren't weighted the same due to various difficulty settings actually being factored into the star difficulty.
This will be easier to figure out when the game's internal star system gets updated and to work dynamically with the mods selected.
DT: increases OD, AR and BPM. all three stats are increased dramatically.
HR: increases CS, AR, OD, HP. HP does not really matter for FCs. higher OD increase than DT, thus more points given for better accuracy. CS and AR affect aim, but not as much as BPM and AR in DT.
HD and FL: bonus aim points.
EZ: extremely low AR is also awarded bonus acc.
HT: opposite of DT.
Topic Starter
tastystew is correct. However there can be edge-cases where DT / HR might have a different ordering or even be below FL or HD. Really depends on the maps. Detailed explanations on how the difficulty is computed are a future wiki topic.
this is good to hear.Tom94 wrote:
tastystew is correct. However there can be edge-cases where DT / HR might have a different ordering or even be below FL or HD. Really depends on the maps. Detailed explanations on how the difficulty is computed are a future wiki topic.
I know what the mods do in general to aim/speed/etc , you're not really understanding me. I really just want to see how the star rating is affected through mods. From what I can see the "level" in osutp isn't the same as it only seems to factor the aim/speed while "star rating" includes OD, AR, CS, etc. So looking at the lists there are differences in how it is sorted. It's fine for now as I can see in the future the star rating changes due to mod usage on a map may possibly be shown.
It's just weird because two different maps, Map A having a higher star rating while B has a lower star rating (they are relatively close) . Both are done with mods and get the same acc yet map B rewards more. I wanted to see if possibly when mods are on they show that map B may possibly have a higher rating than map A.
I hope that makes sense.
It's just weird because two different maps, Map A having a higher star rating while B has a lower star rating (they are relatively close) . Both are done with mods and get the same acc yet map B rewards more. I wanted to see if possibly when mods are on they show that map B may possibly have a higher rating than map A.
I hope that makes sense.
Topic Starter
The star rating at the moment is pretty much equivalent to the osu!tp level, just scaled in another way. Therefore the same changes through mods apply.Dexus wrote:
I know what the mods do in general to aim/speed/etc , you're not really understanding me. I really just want to see how the star rating is affected through mods. From what I can see the "level" in osutp isn't the same as it only seems to factor the aim/speed while "star rating" includes OD, AR, CS, etc. So looking at the lists there are differences in how it is sorted. It's fine for now as I can see in the future the star rating changes due to mod usage on a map may possibly be shown.
It's just weird because two different maps, Map A having a higher star rating while B has a lower star rating (they are relatively close) . Both are done with mods and get the same acc yet map B rewards more. I wanted to see if possibly when mods are on they show that map B may possibly have a higher rating than map A.
I hope that makes sense.
So star rating does not currently take OD into account? Also, I know that HP Drain is not relevant to pp calculations due to how they work, but I think it could be relevant for something like star system, especially for newer players who are not worried about full combos? I guess a star system rating how hard maps are to pass would be entirely different, but maybe it could be useful as a very small factor or something.
I may be misremembering, but I seem to recall that you said something about OD eventually being incorporated into the star system. If this is the case, a feature showing star system with different mods (probably best displayed after integration with the client) would be very useful imo, even if that is not the case currently.
I may be misremembering, but I seem to recall that you said something about OD eventually being incorporated into the star system. If this is the case, a feature showing star system with different mods (probably best displayed after integration with the client) would be very useful imo, even if that is not the case currently.
I'm curious: the new star system looks like it compresses the previous 1-to-just-below-5 range into maybe a third or less of what it was (perhaps 1 to ~2.2). Is anything planned to allow searching for ranges of difficulty, similarly to with OD, AR, HP, and CS? (ex. "sd>1.9 sd<2.2"). Maybe something like this (other than the difficulty sort, which groups things by a full star apart) already exists and I just don't know about it. If it doesn't though, it seems like it might become much harder to search for beatmaps around the same level of difficulty when the star difficulty changes are brought into the client. This is all assuming the 1-to-5 star range stays around of course.
electrolytes wrote:
I'm curious: the new star system looks like it compresses the previous 1-to-just-below-5 range into maybe a third or less of what it was (perhaps 1 to ~2.2). Is anything planned to allow searching for ranges of difficulty, similarly to with OD, AR, HP, and CS? (ex. "sd>1.9 sd<2.2"). Maybe something like this (other than the difficulty sort, which groups things by a full star apart) already exists and I just don't know about it. If it doesn't though, it seems like it might become much harder to search for beatmaps around the same level of difficulty when the star difficulty changes are brought into the client. This is all assuming the 1-to-5 star range stays around of course.
Its in the works.Tom94 wrote:
All planned.Keeby wrote:
It would be nice to implement the star system in-game, if possible.
is this map https://osu.ppy.sh/s/155691 really supposed to be 5.00 stars? tp rates it at lvl 67
Topic Starter
Fixed. It didn't get updated with its actual difficulty value for some reason. The internal pp difficulties were stored correctly. (rrtyui only got 211 for his #1)silmarilen wrote:
is this map https://osu.ppy.sh/s/155691 really supposed to be 5.00 stars? tp rates it at lvl 67
Curious about how much of a bonus is applied when playing at low AR's (sub 4.5/5). Is it possible to use EZ mod on hard+/insane songs and get a higher PP than if you were using nomod? Not sure how EZ mod is calculated for a difficulty and if there's any bonus for the huge clusters of notes
How does weighting add up to such a high amount of pp for players when stuff exponentially yields less in comparison to your Top most performance. A mass amount of scores are weighted as 0%. Am I reading the list wrong and the weighting is already applied to the shown pp amount?
If it isn't then I would like for the top performances if possible to show the pp*weighting amount automatically; and then next to the % show the current displayed mount of pp without the percentage affecting it; that way instead of showing a bunch of 400pp, 300pp, 300pp, it would show the right amounts 400pp, 285pp, 270pp, etc.
The way the weighting is displayed and how much you actually have is pretty confusing to me personally.
If it isn't then I would like for the top performances if possible to show the pp*weighting amount automatically; and then next to the % show the current displayed mount of pp without the percentage affecting it; that way instead of showing a bunch of 400pp, 300pp, 300pp, it would show the right amounts 400pp, 285pp, 270pp, etc.
The way the weighting is displayed and how much you actually have is pretty confusing to me personally.
Topic Starter
That would mislead many people into thinking the scores were considered "worse" instead of only having a weight applied.Dexus wrote:
How does weighting add up to such a high amount of pp for players when stuff exponentially yields less in comparison to your Top most performance. A mass amount of scores are weighted as 0%. Am I reading the list wrong and the weighting is already applied to the shown pp amount?
If it isn't then I would like for the top performances if possible to show the pp*weighting amount automatically; and then next to the % show the current displayed mount of pp without the percentage affecting it; that way instead of showing a bunch of 400pp, 300pp, 300pp, it would show the right amounts 400pp, 285pp, 270pp, etc.
If you want to know how this pp amount adds up just check the math behind it and verify it yourself. It is correct.
Well then can you show the weighted amount of pp NEXT to the weight percentage then? Why fool people into thinking pp for a map is worth something when it really isn't worth anything?
Edit:
Edit:
sounds cool, i'm too lazy to do the math most of the time so yeahDexus wrote:
I was wondering how people had such high PP's when their top scores didn't have many high scores, too. It's most likely due to this
I really like the idea of showing how much PP it's worth after weighing though. Perhaps to a decimal or two for the ones giving base PP?Tom94 wrote:
Every score gives a small base pp amount of 0.25, decreasing by a bit with every new highscore that you make. With 1000 highscores you get around 200pp and with 5000 around 400pp. The cap is 416.666pp at the moment, assuming infinitely many highscores are possible.
(pp gain = 0.25 * sum 0.9994^i, i=0 to amount of highscores)
This gets less and less relevant the higher your pp goes and is meant to both encourage playing more maps for the lower-level players and prevent big rank losses after making a new score at the lower ranks.
In the mid-high ranks it is pretty much irrelevant, since 99% of the people have enough highscores to be less than 50pp away from the cap.
Topic Starter
Fair enough, it does show the actual pp it gives now. I'm still against the decimals though, since it clutters things too much.
Best solution would probably be title= whatever in the div so you can get a lot more information into a tooltip. That would make it so you could just have the pp numbers listed and then hover over for more detail on weightings, mods, etc.
Thanks for adding the weighted amounts!
Thanks for adding the weighted amounts!
I'm extremely confused about the ranking system. I mean, take rrtyui for example. He's #1 on The Quick Brown Fox yet it only gave him 275pp. His best performance is Saiya and that gave him 542pp. I mean, like dafaq?
newsflash: big black is not the hardest thing in existence
Newsflash: That wasn't the point.silmarilen wrote:
newsflash: big black is not the hardest thing in existence
so... what else would be the point?
It's a significantly more difficult map. Not to mention he's got like a 8 million lead...silmarilen wrote:
so... what else would be the point?
That's the point silmarilen addressed tho.
Remote Control on HDDT is harder to FC than Big Black Nomod.
Remote Control on HDDT is harder to FC than Big Black Nomod.
165 * 2 = 330 as opposed to 360.3 BPM on The Big Black. If you add in the sudden jumps and hidden it probably is a more difficult map, but that's subjective really. 7,802,730 point lead and 3.80% more accurate than HappyStick. The map has also been played much more than Remote Control. The PP system is horribly vague...Zare wrote:
That's the point silmarilen addressed tho.
Remote Control on HDDT is harder to FC than Big Black Nomod.
please, if you dont know what you're talking about, dont talk about it. just the fact that you think double time doubles the bpm already shows you dont, not to mention all the other flaws in your argument.
Yeah no I don't even
lol
lol
ppv2 doesn't take your lead into consideration .Even if rryui was second, third or last, it wouldn't matter. Also, take into consideration that rrtyui missed 3 times on big black, which greatly reduces his pp gained from the map.MPGHThunder wrote:
165 * 2 = 330 as opposed to 360.3 BPM on The Big Black. If you add in the sudden jumps and hidden it probably is a more difficult map, but that's subjective really. 7,802,730 point lead and 3.80% more accurate than HappyStick. The map has also been played much more than Remote Control. The PP system is horribly vague...Zare wrote:
That's the point silmarilen addressed tho.
Remote Control on HDDT is harder to FC than Big Black Nomod.
I obviously DON'T have a grasp of what I'm talking about, but that was apparent from the first post. So instead of giving me half-baked answers, how about you stop for a second and actually give me a concise answer instead of acting like I'm an idiot. OK? Thanks.silmarilen wrote:
please, if you dont know what you're talking about, dont talk about it. just the fact that you think double time doubles the bpm already shows you dont, not to mention all the other flaws in your argument.
ok then very well.
first of all, big black may be mapped at 360 bpm, but it plays like a 180 bpm map, so for all intents and purposes it is considered 180 bpm.
second of all, DT multiplies the bpm by 1.5x, not by 2x, so remote control DT would be 247.5.
ok now that that's out of the way lets move on to the next point
the score rrtyui got compared to someone else doesnt matter, all that matters is how difficult the map is according to the difficulty algorithm and rrtyui's combo/accuracy/amount of misses. so even if #2 had only 5 combo it still wouldnt make a difference to the amount of pp rrtyui would get. even if rrtyui was rank 4.000.000/4.000.000 it still wouldnt influence his pp at all
and then lets get on to the difficulty of the maps. as i already said, big black is not the hardest thing there is, i would look at it as an easier version of this map if it wasnt for the sliders
remote control has some fullscreen jumps (which are bigger than the ones on big black aswell) and adding DT makes it 247.5 bpm (thats a whole 67.5 more than big black, since we already agreed on that it's just 180 bpm). it also has a lot of triples and 1/2 notes at the start with difficult movement without much time for breathing. so yes, remote control is harder than big black
first of all, big black may be mapped at 360 bpm, but it plays like a 180 bpm map, so for all intents and purposes it is considered 180 bpm.
second of all, DT multiplies the bpm by 1.5x, not by 2x, so remote control DT would be 247.5.
ok now that that's out of the way lets move on to the next point
the score rrtyui got compared to someone else doesnt matter, all that matters is how difficult the map is according to the difficulty algorithm and rrtyui's combo/accuracy/amount of misses. so even if #2 had only 5 combo it still wouldnt make a difference to the amount of pp rrtyui would get. even if rrtyui was rank 4.000.000/4.000.000 it still wouldnt influence his pp at all
and then lets get on to the difficulty of the maps. as i already said, big black is not the hardest thing there is, i would look at it as an easier version of this map if it wasnt for the sliders
remote control has some fullscreen jumps (which are bigger than the ones on big black aswell) and adding DT makes it 247.5 bpm (thats a whole 67.5 more than big black, since we already agreed on that it's just 180 bpm). it also has a lot of triples and 1/2 notes at the start with difficult movement without much time for breathing. so yes, remote control is harder than big black
You have to understand that Big Black is effectively mapped like a 180 BPM map, not a 360 BPM map. The streams and sliderjumps are mapped 1/2 beats instead of 1/4 beats, which is usually the case. This is way easier to play than the Fullscreen circle jumps on Remote Control, which is 248 BPM with DT.
Just compare the replays and ask yourself which looks more impressive
Just compare the replays and ask yourself which looks more impressive
The Big Black is slower than Remote Control DT and has less aim strain than Remote Control DT. The Big Black doesn't play like a 360 bpm, it plays more like a 180 bpm. Score has nothing to do with how much pp you get also. The amount of contenders a map has (total map plays) has nothing to do with the amount of pp it gives either. Those are old methods to find how much pp a map gives. Remote Control DT is also 10.3 which gives a small bonus because it is over ar10, I don't know what the value for the bonus is. Remote Control DT is also OD10.3 which requires you to be more accurate than typical hardrock (od10). All of these things make Remote Control DT give more pp than The Big Black.MPGHThunder wrote:
I obviously DON'T have a grasp of what I'm talking about, but that was apparent from the first post. So instead of giving me half-baked answers, how about you stop for a second and actually give me a concise answer instead of acting like I'm an idiot. OK? Thanks.silmarilen wrote:
please, if you dont know what you're talking about, dont talk about it. just the fact that you think double time doubles the bpm already shows you dont, not to mention all the other flaws in your argument.
And Remote control DT has a much higher OD than big black.
And big black has lots of sliders compared to remote control.
And sliders are not used to calculate accuracy.
And big black has lots of sliders compared to remote control.
And sliders are not used to calculate accuracy.