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Performance Points feedback and suggestions (Standard)

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encryptik
94 posts
Joined August 2013
encryptik
I was just curious (sorry if this has already been answered) how is BPM factored into the PP calculation?

I've just noticed a very easy, high BPM song (in comparison to my other scores) has risen to my top performance (DT + Hard, A rank) rather than some of the more difficult insanes I've FCed. Maybe it's just an outlier, but I haven't seen this happen before.
Bakano
7 posts
Joined July 2013
Bakano
umm.. what?

-46pp for getting #60 in a hard song? what.

can someone please explain to me how this shit even happens
p.s. that was my first play on the map
Last edited by Bakano , edited 1 time in total.
Gigo
266 posts
Joined March 2013
Gigo
Pls read the last few pages of this thread! Everything is explained there.
Myke B
1,074 posts
Joined April 2012
Myke B

Almost wrote:

If you actually read before...
No I didn't hence the "not sure if it was already said" because who the fuck would want to read that deep into a giant QQ fest. her der
Spyrunite
99 posts
Joined August 2012
Spyrunite
Are you not able to get PP for qualified maps? I know that you were able in the old system and weren't in TP. I seem to not be getting PP from maps that are qualified and not "ranked" yet. If the PP isn't going through the qualified maps will I get the PP for the score once the map becomes ranked?
Cygnus
1,517 posts
Joined December 2011
Cygnus
With this kind of skill measurement, I'm afraid something needs to be done with the score multiplier as well.

Score multipliers (mods) became pointless ever since ppv2 started - this is because HR weighs bigger than FL and HD now. The thing is, will score ranking even matter now? Why not based the scoreboard with the highest pp earned instead? Or why not tweak the score multiplier of every mod to it's fitting value?
laref
48 posts
Joined September 2013
laref
I saw this question some days ago, but don't remember it being answered.

Does the no-fail do anything to the pp you can gain? say you do 98% or something with nf, would there be any difference between the pp gained from that and a score without mod?
Tom94
osu!dev
750 posts
Joined August 2012
Topic Starter
Tom94

ntaig wrote:

I saw this question some days ago, but don't remember it being answered.

Does the no-fail do anything to the pp you can gain? say you do 98% or something with nf, would there be any difference between the pp gained from that and a score without mod?
NoFail gives 10% less pp than without.
pooptartsonas
128 posts
Joined January 2012
pooptartsonas
When these most recent pp changes (the one that weights scores that excel in one category higher) kicked in and many people went up like 500pp, my top ranks changed and seemed to reflect these changes. Two of my scores in particular that are really high in one category moved way up. The pp reverted, as well as my top ranks, and I've gained pp since then through scores so I can't tell if I gained any after the revert due to the change.

So, Tom, did you accidentally weigh these scores that excel in one category much higher than you had intended at first and then fixed the number? Or are calculations still going on behind the scene? I'm confused.
JappyBabes
666 posts
Joined February 2011
JappyBabes

pooptartsonas wrote:

When these most recent pp changes (the one that weights scores that excel in one category higher) kicked in and many people went up like 500pp, my top ranks changed and seemed to reflect these changes. Two of my scores in particular that are really high in one category moved way up. The pp reverted, as well as my top ranks, and I've gained pp since then through scores so I can't tell if I gained any after the revert due to the change.

So, Tom, did you accidentally weigh these scores that excel in one category much higher than you had intended at first and then fixed the number? Or are calculations still going on behind the scene? I'm confused.
Before that change got reverted my best performances list looked way more accurate than how it was before/now. .-.
pooptartsonas
128 posts
Joined January 2012
pooptartsonas
Yeah, I kinda felt like that too. It seemed like a nice balance between the tp system of 3 separate categories and the pp system of all-around scores.
Squid
21 posts
Joined October 2011
Squid

JappyBabes wrote:

Before that change got reverted my best performances list looked way more accurate than how it was before/now. .-.
MSTRSPRK
1 post
Joined January 2013
MSTRSPRK
I took a break for about 4-5 days and today I came back to play and updated my rank. My pp dropped from 1950 to 1859. Does anyone know why my pp dropped? I didn't know that was possible for pp to decay especially since I've only been inactive for a few days. If it was a re-weighting of the maps then I would understand but it seems that none of my friend's pp were affected. Does anyone know what's going on? Usually it's just my ranking that fluctuates but my pp remains untouched.
Kayla
259 posts
Joined August 2013
Kayla
re-weighting probably
High End
7 posts
Joined August 2012
High End
Why doesn't it make ppv2 into the same calculation method as tp?

Because pp of 3 section (aim, speed, acc) sum total of other musical scores is high although Legendre has the skill to take Acc99.76% of accuracy by HDHR of RedGoose [Another], the capability to take accuracy is not correctly reflected in ppv2ranking.

This is being able to say not only to him but to all the players.

I wish, ppv2 becomes the same calculation method as tp.
Because ppv2 of now cannot say it as the ranking which expresses the skill of a player correctly.
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny

Gray Pigeon wrote:

Why doesn't it make ppv2 into the same calculation method as tp?

Because pp of 3 section (aim, speed, acc) sum total of other musical scores is high although Legendre has the skill to take Acc99.76% of accuracy by HDHR of RedGoose [Another], the capability to take accuracy is not correctly reflected in ppv2ranking.

This is being able to say not only to him but to all the players.

I wish, ppv2 becomes the same calculation method as tp.
Because ppv2 of now cannot say it as the ranking which expresses the skill of a player correctly.
ppv2 is pretty much tp...
Yano
191 posts
Joined November 2012
Yano

Gray Pigeon wrote:

Why doesn't it make ppv2 into the same calculation method as tp?

Because pp of 3 section (aim, speed, acc) sum total of other musical scores is high although Legendre has the skill to take Acc99.76% of accuracy by HDHR of RedGoose [Another], the capability to take accuracy is not correctly reflected in ppv2ranking.

This is being able to say not only to him but to all the players.

I wish, ppv2 becomes the same calculation method as tp.
Because ppv2 of now cannot say it as the ranking which expresses the skill of a player correctly.
ppv2 is tp without the Rank 50 Limitation... and also Tom94 made it
High End
7 posts
Joined August 2012
High End
ppv2 calculates PP which 3 sections (aim,speed,acc) of musical scores totaled in high order.

tp calculates PP after making 3 sections (aim,speed,acc) of a musical score into separately high order.

Therefore, although tp and ppv2 are alike, it is not completely the same.

Even if tp carries out rank in to the 10000th place and it will be reflected, a result differs from ppv2.
Thisabel
4 posts
Joined August 2013
Thisabel
Today i beat my score on SENTIVE - Saigo ni Kimi ga Ita with HD. My rank increased from rank around 220 to 88. But at the same time I lost pp and therefore ranks.
Does anyone has an explanation for this?
Zitan
11 posts
Joined April 2013
Zitan

Thisabel wrote:

Today i beat my score on SENTIVE - Saigo ni Kimi ga Ita with HD. My rank increased from rank around 220 to 88. But at the same time I lost pp and therefore ranks.
Does anyone has an explanation for this?
your acc was probably worst in the HD play there for you get a new score but takes off your pp because its HD
Horolynn
47 posts
Joined August 2010
Horolynn

snosey wrote:

Thisabel wrote:

Today i beat my score on SENTIVE - Saigo ni Kimi ga Ita with HD. My rank increased from rank around 220 to 88. But at the same time I lost pp and therefore ranks.
Does anyone has an explanation for this?
your acc was probably worst in the HD play there for you get a new score but takes off your pp because its HD
Translation: Your second play, the one that was "better", was actually worse performance wise, so you lost points because you overwrote your other score.
If you'd take 5 minutes to look through this thread you'd figure it out yourself, this question shows up every 2 or 3 pages.
Icyteru
535 posts
Joined August 2011
Icyteru

Gray Pigeon wrote:

ppv2 calculates PP which 3 sections (aim,speed,acc) of musical scores totaled in high order.

tp calculates PP after making 3 sections (aim,speed,acc) of a musical score into separately high order.

Therefore, although tp and ppv2 are alike, it is not completely the same.

Even if tp carries out rank in to the 10000th place and it will be reflected, a result differs from ppv2.
I don't think many people realise this. But if this isn't true, then the system/my top ranks/other people's top ranks won't make sense. So I'll just agree with this.
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny

Gray Pigeon wrote:

ppv2 calculates PP which 3 sections (aim,speed,acc) of musical scores totaled in high order.

tp calculates PP after making 3 sections (aim,speed,acc) of a musical score into separately high order.

Therefore, although tp and ppv2 are alike, it is not completely the same.

Even if tp carries out rank in to the 10000th place and it will be reflected, a result differs from ppv2.
sorry, i'm just going to be out with this - your english is terrible and I can't understand what you're trying to point out.
Tom94
osu!dev
750 posts
Joined August 2012
Topic Starter
Tom94

Gray Pigeon wrote:

ppv2 calculates PP which 3 sections (aim,speed,acc) of musical scores totaled in high order.

tp calculates PP after making 3 sections (aim,speed,acc) of a musical score into separately high order.

Therefore, although tp and ppv2 are alike, it is not completely the same.

Even if tp carries out rank in to the 10000th place and it will be reflected, a result differs from ppv2.
Apart from the fact, that in pp the 3 sections are not just totaled, this is true. The reason why it's not exactly like tp is, because I feel it's just as wrong to only look at single aspects of scores in isolation as it is to look at a totaled value only. Scores which demand skill in all 3 categories should also be rewarded.

Currently the pp a score is worth is computed by the following formula: (aim^X + speed^X + acc^X)^(1/X)
Where X at the moment is 1.1 and will likely rise a bit in the future.
High End
7 posts
Joined August 2012
High End

Tom94 wrote:

Apart from the fact, that in pp the 3 sections are not just totaled, this is true. The reason why it's not exactly like tp is, because I feel it's just as wrong to only look at single aspects of scores in isolation as it is to look at a totaled value only. Scores which demand skill in all 3 categories should also be rewarded.

Currently the pp a score is worth is computed by the following formula: (aim^X + speed^X + acc^X)^(1/X)
Where X at the moment is 1.1 and will likely rise a bit in the future.
Thank you for the answer, and I am sorry that I am poor at English.

I wanted to know why the calculation method was changed by ppv2 and tp.

If Tom thinks that player skill is exact by the calculation method, I will say nothing.
but, I think that the player which specialized in one skill is pitiful.
I wish, Increase more pp-value of scores which excel in one category.
el-ev-en
31 posts
Joined November 2013
el-ev-en
What's happening about rank sorting? Rank for perfomance toplist and rank for user's page have very strange relation.
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Tom94
osu!dev
750 posts
Joined August 2012
Topic Starter
Tom94

MosaicII wrote:

What's happening about rank sorting? Rank for perfomance toplist and rank for user's page have very strange relation.
collapsed text






Profile / ingame rank always have been behind by some time. Don't worry, they will eventually catch up.
Defacer
131 posts
Joined October 2011
Defacer
­
Last edited by Defacer , edited 1 time in total.
DJAlex
28 posts
Joined May 2013
DJAlex
Well, I sort of like that whenever you play a hard enough map, even if you fail, if at the start you did a reeeeallly good move it gives you a bit of rank up.
And yeah, it's really balanced right now. Not passed anymore because of farmers for a while!
Oskur
40 posts
Joined September 2012
Oskur
http://puu.sh/6Vkes.png

I'm a bit confused about how ranking works with single beatmaps; Generally, when I beat an old score of mine with a worse accuracy, I lose a little bit of pp. Okay, no big deal. But just now, I beat a map with better accuracy and a higher score and lost pp regardless.

Does it take more away if you miss more notes?
GoldenWolf
2,983 posts
Joined May 2012
GoldenWolf

TMoI wrote:

Does it take more away if you miss more notes?
Yes, they heavily reduce the amount of aim points you'd get
High End
7 posts
Joined August 2012
High End

Defacer wrote:

So finally, if you have generally bad aim but pretty good speed&acc and you finally achieve a score that excels mostly in aim without much speed&acc , will the system treat that score's aim value separately and boost you even though the score overall in all categories isn't that high(maybe not even reaching top performance field)?
No, It will not become, if all categories are not high maps.

If you want to raise pp, The map only with one high category does not have a meaning.
Spyrunite
99 posts
Joined August 2012
Spyrunite
WOO we finally got the PP graphs again :D
Natsu
8,074 posts
Joined September 2012
Natsu

Spyrunite wrote:

WOO we finally got the PP graphs again :D
too big QAQ
Kukuthemoogle
29 posts
Joined September 2013
Kukuthemoogle
Hey, I've been reading this thread to figure out why my rank keeps dropping when I beat old scores and songs, and I found the answer to that, but I've also been having another problem. Recently when I play new songs on hard or normal, and I fc it(without ever playing this map before) I'll lose a lot of ranks. Is it because I've been playing a lot of insane maps lately? I have no idea.

Also, I'm sorry if this question has been answered, I haven't been able to find the answer anywhere. :o
GoldenWolf
2,983 posts
Joined May 2012
GoldenWolf

Kukuthemoogle wrote:

Hey, I've been reading this thread to figure out why my rank keeps dropping when I beat old scores and songs, and I found the answer to that, but I've also been having another problem. Recently when I play new songs on hard or normal, and I fc it(without ever playing this map before) I'll lose a lot of ranks. Is it because I've been playing a lot of insane maps lately? I have no idea.

Also, I'm sorry if this question has been answered, I haven't been able to find the answer anywhere. :o
It's likely because more people gain ranks faster than you, thus you drop in ranks (to prove that your pp shouldn't change much, if at all)
Novixion
92 posts
Joined July 2013
Novixion

Kukuthemoogle wrote:

Recently when I play new songs on hard or normal, and I fc it(without ever playing this map before) I'll lose a lot of ranks. Is it because I've been playing a lot of insane maps lately? I have no idea.
You don't earn too many points from hards or normals so others probably were overtaking your scores. The ranks are generally unstable due to some people being far more active then others.

This is kinda funny but there is a weird bug with the graph (my cursor is at the lower arrow):
Graph Bug
Keeby
50 posts
Joined July 2012
Keeby
yeah, are the graphs upsidedown or something? or am I reading it wrong. o-o
Coffee Hero
Coffee Hero
others probably were overtaking your scores
No, score doesn't even matter for ppv2.When you achieve a score on a map other players scores have no effect on your PP.


Recently when I play new songs on hard or normal, and I fc it(without ever playing this map before) I'll lose a lot of ranks. Is it because I've been playing a lot of insane maps lately? I have no idea.
PPv2 updates everytime you set a score. What you are seeing is just other players passing you in pp during the time between scores.
Icyteru
535 posts
Joined August 2011
Icyteru

Tom94 wrote:

Apart from the fact, that in pp the 3 sections are not just totaled, this is true. The reason why it's not exactly like tp is, because I feel it's just as wrong to only look at single aspects of scores in isolation as it is to look at a totaled value only. Scores which demand skill in all 3 categories should also be rewarded.

Currently the pp a score is worth is computed by the following formula: (aim^X + speed^X + acc^X)^(1/X)
Where X at the moment is 1.1 and will likely rise a bit in the future.
This explains the 50% difference in my tp and pp rank then. Although tbh, I reckon maps which have a decent value in all sections is a lot easier than maps which excel in one area.
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