100% agree. I have absolutely no problem with hd accuracy. Aim is more of a problemAqo wrote:
Ziggo, you're supposed to read accuracy by the music, not by looking at approach circles. If you play correctly HD has no impact on acc reading difficulty ;v only on the positions where you land, which is why aim makes sense.
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Performance Points feedback and suggestions (Standard)
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Soarezi
are you for realOmgforz wrote:
Yes, please weigh hidden a lot more, because obviously you have to re-learn rhythm and accuracy when playing hidden. nomod od and hidden od are like 2 different worlds.
Playing with hidden is as if the od has been doubled.
Just a little suggestion here
It would be cool and useful if you added some details on the Top Performance, like the mods
the algorithm seems working very well (btw, when will it be open?)
It would be cool and useful if you added some details on the Top Performance, like the mods
the algorithm seems working very well (btw, when will it be open?)
Topic Starter
I can't give any answers regarding your first suggestion yet. The algorithm will be openly described in a wiki artivle, which I will write as soon as I have the time. I am currently very busy with personal things and the wiki article has the highest priority directly followed by pp for the other gamemodes of what I will be doing afterwards. ETA for the wiki article is in a bit over a week.Sephibro wrote:
SPOILERJust a little suggestion here
It would be cool and useful if you added some details on the Top Performance, like the mods
the algorithm seems working very well (btw, when will it be open?)
Those bonuses don't really mean anything in terms of rank any more. The only reason why they aren't changed is because it's too late to change them.MiniTokki wrote:
This is why I don't understand why HR and HD have the same rate score.RaneFire wrote:
[...]
And I can said the same for DT and FL.
Mods have to be balanced imo, because they aren't.
Some players can get better accuracy on HD than they can without it so it would more likely unbalance the system.Ziggo wrote:
When I manage to get 98% no mod on a certain map, I will probably get about 96% with HD. With 95% no mod, I will get about 91% with HD. With 90% no mod, I will get about 83% with HD. So the lower my initial accuracy is, the more HD will lower my accuracy. To counter this, HD should maybe give a relative bonus according to the achieved accuracy, instead of a static multiplication bonus. That way high level plays with high accuracy will not be influenced, but HD keeps being viable on lower levels. What do you guys think about that?
Wait a second, so only your best score would get recorded for pp?
WubWoofWolf got about a 500 combo on Remote Control with HD and DT, but getting full combo on no mod would get him a higher score but less pp. So if he max combo'd with no mod FIRST (hypothetically) and then got about a 500 on HD and DT, would that not count for pp? Because on his profile even that low score counted for a ton.
WubWoofWolf got about a 500 combo on Remote Control with HD and DT, but getting full combo on no mod would get him a higher score but less pp. So if he max combo'd with no mod FIRST (hypothetically) and then got about a 500 on HD and DT, would that not count for pp? Because on his profile even that low score counted for a ton.
He would lose pp if he beats the score without DT. If he had a non-DT score the DT score wouldn't count.Shenanigans wrote:
Wait a second, so only your best score would get recorded for pp?
WubWoofWolf got about a 500 combo on Remote Control with HD and DT, but getting full combo on no mod would get him a higher score but less pp. So if he max combo'd with no mod FIRST (hypothetically) and then got about a 500 on HD and DT, would that not count for pp? Because on his profile even that low score counted for a ton.
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/33695?m=0
Gives toooooo much pp. It has beaten all my best pp scores which is funny
Gives toooooo much pp. It has beaten all my best pp scores which is funny
That seems like a slightly flawed system. I noticed the same thing before ppv2 with high accuracy and no mod vs low accuracy and DTFull Tablet wrote:
He would lose pp if he beats the score without DT. If he had a non-DT score the DT score wouldn't count.Shenanigans wrote:
Wait a second, so only your best score would get recorded for pp?
WubWoofWolf got about a 500 combo on Remote Control with HD and DT, but getting full combo on no mod would get him a higher score but less pp. So if he max combo'd with no mod FIRST (hypothetically) and then got about a 500 on HD and DT, would that not count for pp? Because on his profile even that low score counted for a ton.
Why would it influence your aim but not your accuracy? If your timing is the same and the position of the circles is the same... I don't get it, guess I'm just weird or something.Soarezi wrote:
100% agree. I have absolutely no problem with hd accuracy. Aim is more of a problemAqo wrote:
Ziggo, you're supposed to read accuracy by the music, not by looking at approach circles. If you play correctly HD has no impact on acc reading difficulty ;v only on the positions where you land, which is why aim makes sense.
Topic Starter
This has been discussed multiple times in this thread already. It's a known issue which I wish could be resolve, but it's not as easy as it seems, dealing wiith the huge amount of scores that exist.HoboEater wrote:
That seems like a slightly flawed system. I noticed the same thing before ppv2 with high accuracy and no mod vs low accuracy and DT
Only keeping your best pp scores is also not a good option, because pp is an ever-changing system, where changes might often make a previous score worth more suddenly.
The system feels like it weighs high accuracy too heavily over actual map difficulty.
It's the exact opposite for me, so I guess it depends on your personal strengths.Mickiemoemoe wrote:
The system feels like it weighs high accuracy too heavily over actual map difficulty.
that was the issue of peppy's ppv2Mickiemoemoe wrote:
The system feels like it weighs high accuracy too heavily over actual map difficulty.
that system was like get SS or take a cancer
1x100 was worth nothing, SS was lightyears more rewarding, that was just COMPLETELY RETARDED.. it also was one of the flaws ppv1 had (ppv1 didn't have so many flaws btw), but it was much much less silly than peppy's ppv2
it's clear that this system has been thought by a good player who knows what's the real "hard" in this game
Hidden forces you to "remember" where circles are so you aren't all accurate in positioning your cursor with it. It's also a lot harder to play things that are difficult for you to read with hidden on and a large part of aim is being able to read. Accuracy on the other hand doesn't really get affected at all since OD is unaffected. The only more difficult to accuracy things are the ones with poor flow and sections that require a large amount of guess work (and it's only really harder on sight reading most of the time).Ziggo wrote:
Why would it influence your aim but not your accuracy? If your timing is the same and the position of the circles is the same... I don't get it, guess I'm just weird or something.
ppv1 had so many flaws...Sephibro wrote:
(ppv1 didn't have so many flaws btw)
Kind of enjoying a nice consistent rise in ranks but what I'm not so sure about is how I can spend ages working on a really hard beatmap and when I finally complete it it doesn't count anything towards my pp at all. But if I go and find the easiest beatmap I have, wack on a few mods and get a good score really easily, that gives me loads of pp. Don't quite understand that at all :/
Barely passing a hard beatmap might not reward you as much pp as getting a good score on an easier one.[ Zetka ] wrote:
Kind of enjoying a nice consistent rise in ranks but what I'm not so sure about is how I can spend ages working on a really hard beatmap and when I finally complete it it doesn't count anything towards my pp at all. But if I go and find the easiest beatmap I have, wack on a few mods and get a good score really easily, that gives me loads of pp. Don't quite understand that at all :/
Brian OA wrote:
Barely passing a hard beatmap might not reward you as much pp as getting a good score on an easier one.
Yes that is what I've found, what I mean is it when it takes a really tough performance to complete a hard beatmap you get 0 pp but when it takes 0 effort to get a good score on an easy beatmapyou get loads of pp, so the fact they're called performance points isn't making much sense to me
Yet when you get a good score on the hard beatmap you'll get much more than the easy one.[ Zetka ] wrote:
Brian OA wrote:
Barely passing a hard beatmap might not reward you as much pp as getting a good score on an easier one.
Yes that is what I've found, what I mean is it when it takes a really tough performance to complete a hard beatmap you get 0 pp but when it takes 0 effort to get a good score on an easy beatmapyou get loads of pp, so the fact they're called performance points isn't making much sense to me
Look at it this way: the system rewards good performance, and your performance on both maps aren't the same. You did poorly on the hard beatmap, so there'd be no sense in rewarding you for it. However, you did well on the easy one, so there's a reward for you. You've effectively gotten every pp that score was worth. The thing is the same can't be said of the hard map.
didn't recive a single point for that. ty tom and peppy -.-
Well, #962 doesn't look like a particularly good performance
but for 12k noob like me... and its pluto dude.Luna wrote:
Well, #962 doesn't look like a particularly good performance
Topic Starter
pp is designed to reward good performance on maps. While it might be harder, to just pass a very hard map compared to full-comboing an easy map, you still perform badly on that particular hard map when just barely passing.
If you want to gain more pp, then go for full combos and high accuracy on the maps where you can barely achieve those.
Edit: Seems like I overlooked Brian OA's previously reply. He formulated it pretty well:
If you want to gain more pp, then go for full combos and high accuracy on the maps where you can barely achieve those.
Edit: Seems like I overlooked Brian OA's previously reply. He formulated it pretty well:
Brian OA wrote:
Look at it this way: the system rewards good performance, and your performance on both maps aren't the same. You did poorly on the hard beatmap, so there'd be no sense in rewarding you for it. However, you did well on the easy one, so there's a reward for you. You've effectively gotten every pp that score was worth. The thing is the same can't be said of the hard map.
Current system seems like a relatively fun and fair one.
However, I don't quite understand how I got a big load of PP from https://osu.ppy.sh/b/136649?m=0 (Insane) by getting rank #2573, 96,02% acc and 379 combo (out of the possible 777). Does the system consider that map difficult enough to give a rank 19k a lot of PP even if the performance is really not that good? I'm very confused.
However, I don't quite understand how I got a big load of PP from https://osu.ppy.sh/b/136649?m=0 (Insane) by getting rank #2573, 96,02% acc and 379 combo (out of the possible 777). Does the system consider that map difficult enough to give a rank 19k a lot of PP even if the performance is really not that good? I'm very confused.
Yes.ks- wrote:
Current system seems like a relatively fun and fair one.
However, I don't quite understand how I got a big load of PP from https://osu.ppy.sh/b/136649?m=0 (Insane) by getting rank #2573, 96,02% acc and 379 combo (out of the possible 777). Does the system consider that map difficult enough to give a rank 19k a lot of PP even if the performance is really not that good? I'm very confused.
Rank (insert #2573 here) is not considered. It gauges your performance on an individual basis using the map difficulty algorithm. If that was a good play, you'll get rewarded, whether the map is highly contested and putting you down 2500 ranks or not.
I still think that HD weighted too lightly...
It can be hard for HD in maps
i) have both 1/2 , 1/3 , 1/4 music spacing (the change half a beat and a third of a beat throws people off)
ii) maps that have poor flow
iii) maps with jumps
iv) old maps (before 2010) (they've got strange spacing and strange beats)
IN those cases, HD should be weighted a lot more because it's significantly harder to play those maps with HD
Even in normal cases, HD is weighted far too lightly. A bonus of about 3% is just too small for most maps.
I think that HD should be weighted to about 5-6%, as a bonus for people who play HD
Also, the EZ mod should be rewarded, not punished, because it's actually harder to play with EZ than without...
(IN maps with high AR, it is impossible to play EZ)
What's more is that FL mod should also be rewarded more as in most cases it's incredibly hard to play FL
(if you don't use multiscreens)
That's all for now, thanks for listening
p.s. A great thanks to Tom for the new ppv2!
It can be hard for HD in maps
i) have both 1/2 , 1/3 , 1/4 music spacing (the change half a beat and a third of a beat throws people off)
ii) maps that have poor flow
iii) maps with jumps
iv) old maps (before 2010) (they've got strange spacing and strange beats)
IN those cases, HD should be weighted a lot more because it's significantly harder to play those maps with HD
Even in normal cases, HD is weighted far too lightly. A bonus of about 3% is just too small for most maps.
I think that HD should be weighted to about 5-6%, as a bonus for people who play HD
Also, the EZ mod should be rewarded, not punished, because it's actually harder to play with EZ than without...
(IN maps with high AR, it is impossible to play EZ)
What's more is that FL mod should also be rewarded more as in most cases it's incredibly hard to play FL
(if you don't use multiscreens)
That's all for now, thanks for listening
p.s. A great thanks to Tom for the new ppv2!
It's significantly harder to play those maps with HD only if you can't play HD
HD doesn't change anything, it's the same map, with the same OD AR CS and HP drain, if you play by listening the music it won't change much, except for stacks that are harder to read
HD doesn't change anything, it's the same map, with the same OD AR CS and HP drain, if you play by listening the music it won't change much, except for stacks that are harder to read
2GoldenWolf
Airman is only hard if you can't aim it, so why not weight it lightly?
HD removes quite a lot of visual information which makes it very hard on lower AR, so it should influence aiming quite a lot on old maps.
Oh wait, I forgot, if someone finds it easy due to training then it doesn't matter.
Airman is only hard if you can't aim it, so why not weight it lightly?
HD removes quite a lot of visual information which makes it very hard on lower AR, so it should influence aiming quite a lot on old maps.
Oh wait, I forgot, if someone finds it easy due to training then it doesn't matter.
Except learning HD is QUITE easier than learning how to aim airman's jumps
HD doesn't make things much harder if at all, the actual bonus seems enough
HD doesn't make things much harder if at all, the actual bonus seems enough
HD was used to give cheap n' easy PP for pretty much no work on most maps. It is treated as such in ppv2, because this is a rating of skill, not freebies.dennischan wrote:
SPOILERI still think that HD weighted too lightly...
It can be hard for HD in maps
i) have both 1/2 , 1/3 , 1/4 music spacing (the change half a beat and a third of a beat throws people off)
ii) maps that have poor flow
iii) maps with jumps
iv) old maps (before 2010) (they've got strange spacing and strange beats)
IN those cases, HD should be weighted a lot more because it's significantly harder to play those maps with HD
Even in normal cases, HD is weighted far too lightly. A bonus of about 3% is just too small for most maps.
I think that HD should be weighted to about 5-6%, as a bonus for people who play HD
Also, the EZ mod should be rewarded, not punished, because it's actually harder to play with EZ than without...
(IN maps with high AR, it is impossible to play EZ)
What's more is that FL mod should also be rewarded more as in most cases it's incredibly hard to play FL
(if you don't use multiscreens)
That's all for now, thanks for listening
p.s. A great thanks to Tom for the new ppv2!
As for your "hard in HD maps"...
i) Pretty much all maps have 1/2 and 1/4, and an occasional 1/3 where you just have to LISTEN and REMEMBER where it is in the music. Probably can't do it the first time, but who seriously sight reads with HD all the time? Maybe for fun or on easy maps, but seriously, it's not that hard to remember a few parts.
ii) Poor flow as in... Can't keep up, too many jumps?
iii) Lol
iv) ppv2 is designed for newer maps and they even TELL you to play the newer maps, why complain about it when they already mentioned it?
The hard parts in HD, are maps with a ridiculous amount of stacks, back-and-forth jumping (Even something easy like Ha-tenya becomes ridiculously annoying) or hidden circles under/after/between sliders (Heaven's Race Guitar Style?)
FL is rewarded where fit. As Tom previously said, FL gives a whopping 36% bonus when it's hard to play. Most maps with FL records are ones that are easy, hence the low reward value.
What.StormR1d3r wrote:
Airman is only hard if you can't aim it, so why not weight it lightly?
2nooblet
Make a map full of jumps on AR6 and a speed on which you can hit 200-300 notes nomod in a combo before it becomes too hard to maintain it, then try to see if you can get the same amount of hits with HD and give us results. You'll see that HD makes jumps harder.
Make a map full of jumps on AR6 and a speed on which you can hit 200-300 notes nomod in a combo before it becomes too hard to maintain it, then try to see if you can get the same amount of hits with HD and give us results. You'll see that HD makes jumps harder.
Yes, of course HD increases difficulty if you haven't learned to read HD.
That doesn't mean its bonus should be increased; it already gives a fair amount in a jumpy map (I mean I played a beatmap I had previously fc'd without pp gain with HD added on and got a nice amount from it...)
That doesn't mean its bonus should be increased; it already gives a fair amount in a jumpy map (I mean I played a beatmap I had previously fc'd without pp gain with HD added on and got a nice amount from it...)
Learning to play HD is easy.
HD is hard on ultra low AR maps which are non-existent, and on most of them you just add HR.
HD is hard on ultra low AR maps which are non-existent, and on most of them you just add HR.
Topic Starter
HD already gets a huge bonus for lower ARs starting small at 8 and going big as you approach 0 and even the below-0 ones possibly with HalfTime.
Without the AR-bonus HD already gives 18% more aim pp! That's quite a lot and I don't see any reason to increase it any further. Of course Hidden won't give you a lot of pp if you have to sacrifice a lot of accuracy for it or if the map you are playing doesn't require much aim.
Without the AR-bonus HD already gives 18% more aim pp! That's quite a lot and I don't see any reason to increase it any further. Of course Hidden won't give you a lot of pp if you have to sacrifice a lot of accuracy for it or if the map you are playing doesn't require much aim.
ok, thanks for explaining
I see. Thank you for the clarification.RaneFire wrote:
Yes.ks- wrote:
Current system seems like a relatively fun and fair one.
However, I don't quite understand how I got a big load of PP from https://osu.ppy.sh/b/136649?m=0 (Insane) by getting rank #2573, 96,02% acc and 379 combo (out of the possible 777). Does the system consider that map difficult enough to give a rank 19k a lot of PP even if the performance is really not that good? I'm very confused.
Rank (insert #2573 here) is not considered. It gauges your performance on an individual basis using the map difficulty algorithm. If that was a good play, you'll get rewarded, whether the map is highly contested and putting you down 2500 ranks or not.
StormR1d3r wrote:
2nooblet
Make a map full of jumps on AR6 and a speed on which you can hit 200-300 notes nomod in a combo before it becomes too hard to maintain it, then try to see if you can get the same amount of hits with HD and give us results. You'll see that HD makes jumps harder.
What Wishy said, or you're talking about [easy] or [normal] diffs if you're saying AR6. In that case, the specifics in PP probably don't affect them as much anyways, so just play harder maps if you want PP. There's no real point for doing a difficult AR6 map...Wishy wrote:
Learning to play HD is easy.
HD is hard on ultra low AR maps which are non-existent, and on most of them you just add HR.
I'd like to see someone play Chocobo with HR.Wishy wrote:
Learning to play HD is easy.
HD is hard on ultra low AR maps which are non-existent, and on most of them you just add HR.