I know that feel brodedaloodak wrote:
4k# >> 12k#
gg peppy and crew -.-
Mine 5k#>>>>18k#
Just fun playing is now not an option, just keep retrying your insane maps dude
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Performance Points feedback and suggestions (Standard)
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Mine 5k#>>>>18k#
Just fun playing is now not an option, just keep retrying your insane maps dude
I have some concerns regarding Performance Points and tying it to difficulty of the map.
Most notably.... songs that involve 5.00 difficulty.
There are some songs at 5.00 difficulty that are not as difficult as some of the insane 5.00 difficulty maps, yet I believe they are treated the same for calculations for PP purposes. (I'll provide examples if needed).
This can be "set up for some level of exploit of getting PP" at around the 1k to 2k PP range, in my opinion. Ie... they can effectively raise their PP by playing and doing really well at the easy 5.00 difficulty maps.
Maybe we need to start ranking maps with 6.00 difficulty to really differentiate the hard and really hard maps... because there is a huge saturation of maps at the 4.75 - 5.00 difficulty range?
Most notably.... songs that involve 5.00 difficulty.
There are some songs at 5.00 difficulty that are not as difficult as some of the insane 5.00 difficulty maps, yet I believe they are treated the same for calculations for PP purposes. (I'll provide examples if needed).
This can be "set up for some level of exploit of getting PP" at around the 1k to 2k PP range, in my opinion. Ie... they can effectively raise their PP by playing and doing really well at the easy 5.00 difficulty maps.
Maybe we need to start ranking maps with 6.00 difficulty to really differentiate the hard and really hard maps... because there is a huge saturation of maps at the 4.75 - 5.00 difficulty range?
Lol@people crying because they went from 4k to 600k. If you play for fun then you shouldn't care about your rank.
UNIFO, there is another difficulty calculation system, just ignore the stars, nobody cares about them, pp uses another system to evaluate maps, stars are there just because.
UNIFO, there is another difficulty calculation system, just ignore the stars, nobody cares about them, pp uses another system to evaluate maps, stars are there just because.
i still have scores that took 1 pc in my best performance thoughWishy wrote:
Lol@people crying because they went from 4k to 600k. If you play for fun then you shouldn't care about your rank.
UNIFO, there is another difficulty calculation system, just ignore the stars, nobody cares about them, pp uses another system to evaluate maps, stars are there just because.
Most of the scores I got on my best performance came from score that took me one play, your point? Some examples would be helpful.
my point is that the weighings can still be improved
Certainly.
Here is some definitive evidence/example that will leave anybody baffled on how the PP system would work.Wishy wrote:
Lol@people crying because they went from 4k to 600k. If you play for fun then you shouldn't care about your rank.
UNIFO, there is another difficulty calculation system, just ignore the stars, nobody cares about them, pp uses another system to evaluate maps, stars are there just because.
Example 1:
Before improving the score of this map (https://osu.ppy.sh/b/183511), I had a score of like 700k on it, and it was considered one of my top performing songs.
Now compare that to the score of this map (https://osu.ppy.sh/b/312770) which still is at 1.5 Mil. I think this map is harder than the previous map, yet this was not one of my top performing song.
Note that both songs are at 5.00 difficulty. The 2nd one is the more difficult song. DESPITE this fact, my 700k score was a top performer (as of yesterday, now has improved). Now how does that make any sense what so ever?
Example 2:
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/169090?m=0 -> my top score is 1.4 Mil, 79% accuracy, max combo 170, and difficulty of 4.94. This song is in my top performer.
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/309501 -> my top score is 4.6 Mil, 87% accuracy, max combo 460, and difficulty of 5.00. This song NOT my top performer.
Again the 2nd one I feel is much more difficult. Yet somehow the first one is part of my top 10 performance, and the 2nd isn't.
----
I'm aware there are other factors that involve PP, such as how competitive the song could be. However, these two examples does show that something is kinda fishy occurring with 5.00 difficulty songs, and can be set up for exploit with specific songs.
I'm too lazy to check out the maps, but just by looking at the scoreboard I can say what you usually consider to be easier is actually harder.
Didn't check any of the maps tho so I may be wrong. Star system has nothing to do anyways, trust me, just ignore it. You won't get a lot of pp from a random 5* map compared to hard 5* maps.
Didn't check any of the maps tho so I may be wrong. Star system has nothing to do anyways, trust me, just ignore it. You won't get a lot of pp from a random 5* map compared to hard 5* maps.
This feels a little stupid but, is the top 10 best performance in order of amount of pp awarded?
Yes. The higher ones are more valuable.lucari386 wrote:
This feels a little stupid but, is the top 10 best performance in order of amount of pp awarded?
#2 -> #4 as you can see 4 is double the amount of 2 meaning that at a percentual level my rank dropped almost as much as yours diddedaloodak wrote:
4k# >> 12k#
gg peppy and crew -.-
GG NO RE THIS SYSTEM IS DOOMED
on a more serious note people who are complaining about their rank dropping should consider the possibility that there might be players better than them getting better scores than what they're getting
just saying that it is an almost certain possibility
what i dun get is, how does player which has worse scores than me, performance is also not as good( not to brag), but have higher pp than me...
Example? The system calculates their scores are worth more.Kinji wrote:
what i dun get is, how does player which has worse scores than me, performance is also not as good( not to brag), but have higher pp than me...
check their best performance scores, and beat them because you think you're better. free ppKinji wrote:
what i dun get is, how does player which has worse scores than me, performance is also not as good( not to brag), but have higher pp than me...
instead of asking about it you should provide names and examples of the scoresKinji wrote:
what i dun get is, how does player which has worse scores than me, performance is also not as good( not to brag), but have higher pp than me...
I also think that I should be #1 but because I'm not this system is bad
click on my userpage, and this userpage. http://osu.ppy.sh/u/2621067, i have been 'stalking' his userpage to compare scores, and get btr, but my pp is always lower than him....
You have to get a better score than him on these maps.Kinji wrote:
click on my userpage, and this userpage. http://osu.ppy.sh/u/2621067, i have been 'stalking' his userpage to compare scores, and get btr, but my pp is always lower than him....
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/226839?m=0
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/169450?m=0
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/252000?m=0
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/136400?m=0
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/169090?m=0
so basically i get btr score in this few maps, my pp will increase to the same as him? and how do i know that I have a btr score in that song than him? Thank you very much for answering my question.Plaatinum wrote:
You have to get a better score than him on these maps.
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/226839?m=0
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/169450?m=0
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/252000?m=0
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/136400?m=0
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/169090?m=0
Just don't think "better score" means "being higher in scoreboard" only in this case. You need to use the same mods (or add some) and get better accuracy.
i.e. Your score won't be "better" if you beat DT score with FL
i.e. Your score won't be "better" if you beat DT score with FL
also less misses
This guy also has 5k more playcount than you, Kinji, and probably has numerous other scores that obviously didn't make it into the list, but are of similar value.
I've seen how the system actually appreciates good scores with a random dumb miss (a few of my top performances are like that), therefore I can assume the system doesn't punish not-FCing that much. Now, the question, what would happen if you manage to clear something impossible, let's say you clear Airman on DT with a B, how much would that be worth? I mean that certainly requires an insane amount of skill and is probably harder than getting some random few misses score on the same map without any mod.
I know Airman is not a very good example because of low drain, but the point is quite clear.
I know Airman is not a very good example because of low drain, but the point is quite clear.
Tom94 wrote:
Misses are penalized very strongly if you have more than just a few. Your combo relative to the maximum possible combo also plays a huge role. But you can indeed get a huge amount of pp for lower scores. A prime example would be jesus1412's C score on https://osu.ppy.sh/b/124501?m=0 . It is a 86% 500 combo with DoubleTime in case you are curious. That's an insane score on such a map, you are free to look at Auto-mode play it with DoubleTime.
SS does not have a huge bonus by itself, but due to the high accuracy required to get one (100% is quite high, eh? :p) it indirectly is worth a lot.
Accuracy is still very relevant, however not as much as in ppv1 anymore.
Thanks. So the more misses you get the harsher it gets (1 miss takes x pp, 2 misses takes 3x pp, 3 misses take 8x pp, etc) and the closer your maximum combo is to the maximum map's combo the better.
Damn I was hoping to fill my top performances with Cs.
Damn I was hoping to fill my top performances with Cs.
technically you can, but the amount of speed and aim that is needed to carry the overall pp anchored by the accuracy factor is probably either on par or higher than rrtyui
since pp uses only the end results, perhaps tom could make a program that can calculate pp gained from arbitrary input values
since pp uses only the end results, perhaps tom could make a program that can calculate pp gained from arbitrary input values
19k>40k yea i guess kinda pp farm when i think about it after i raged about the drop this system is good only needs to fix bugs and real time update's.I have a suggestion it would be cool to be somewhere written how much pp and acc you gain or lose for a song,lets say under historical tab there would be
<song name> +9pp +0,03 acc or +2pp -0,01 acc.
<song name> +9pp +0,03 acc or +2pp -0,01 acc.
It would be neat if we had a way to submit a pending map to the difficulty calculator and get a difficulty value/set of values.
1) It'll allow the players to provide more accurate feedback in fine-tuning the weightings of components of the calculator, and
2) It provides a slightly more objective measure of difficulty to discuss creating an even spread of difficulties, or if a Normal is "too hard", prior to ranking.
1) It'll allow the players to provide more accurate feedback in fine-tuning the weightings of components of the calculator, and
2) It provides a slightly more objective measure of difficulty to discuss creating an even spread of difficulties, or if a Normal is "too hard", prior to ranking.
Since I got a 2200# in my top ranking, can we say that the "top 900 to be ranked" is over and we just need to perform the best we can ? That would be a huge relief for the new insaners
I wasted so much time on this game and I play so much time.. From 6k rank I'm already 18k rank. Guys I hope that ppv2 will change algorithm
You wasted time farming hards and got what you deserved. Sounds pretty good.BerserQ wrote:
I wasted so much time on this game and I play so much time.. From 6k rank I'm already 18k rank. Guys I hope that ppv2 will change algorithm
it is still very possible to still get pp from C ranks. In my user profile you can see a map that i got a C on is one of my top scores (and I'm rank 9k) because its just that difficult.buny wrote:
technically you can, but the amount of speed and aim that is needed to carry the overall pp anchored by the accuracy factor is probably either on par or higher than rrtyui
since pp uses only the end results, perhaps tom could make a program that can calculate pp gained from arbitrary input values
well, I was speaking relatively to wishy's scores
some food for thoughtunlike accuracy plays where you retry a map until you get good accuracy on that map, for speed plays you usually train externally. whether it's on streamy maps like ascension to heaven that you like to play or those stream practice maps that many people uploaded, and whether it's spending a month playing with HR or simply playing a lot of jumpy maps -
in the end, when you get that "1 random play that went into my top performance. wtf. I didn't work hard for it", you did work for it and for quite some time. it's not a play you were capable of doing from your first day of playing osu, and it's not a play that the people you suddenly pass with this rank can do even if they retry it 20 times.
getting rewarded for single tries on a map doesn't mean the map is too easy and doesn't deserve its points and something-p being broken, it just means you are good enough to collect the points this map gives. If you still think a map is imbalanced in the system, call all your friends to try it too.
don't forget that each player has different strengths. a player practicing only streams all day might FC a deathstream maps and then go and say "wtf, this isn't hard took me like 2-3 tries, meanwhile pudding is crazy hard for me and doesn't give much more".
and then another player who spends most of his time on playing jumpy maps literally all day long might eventually get some high combo on a difficult jump map and go "huh, I'm getting points from this random shitty play, but this stream map is completely impossible for me even after many tries and doesn't seem to give as much points wtf?", but in the end you're just getting rewarded for what you're good at.
try to put things into perspective before writing suggestions for this system, maybe ask several other people to play the same maps as you and see how they do on them. you might be surprised at how difficult some things are to other people that look super easy to you, and how stuff you feel is impossible other people can accomplish quickly and relatively effortlessly.
Aqo wrote:
:lol: some food for thought
unlike accuracy plays where you retry a map until you get good accuracy on that map, for speed plays you usually train externally. whether it's on streamy maps like ascension to heaven that you like to play or those stream practice maps that many people uploaded, and whether it's spending a month playing with HR or simply playing a lot of jumpy maps -
in the end, when you get that "1 random play that went into my top performance. wtf. I didn't work hard for it", you did work for it and for quite some time. it's not a play you were capable of doing from your first day of playing osu, and it's not a play that the people you suddenly pass with this rank can do even if they retry it 20 times.
getting rewarded for single tries on a map doesn't mean the map is too easy and doesn't deserve its points and something-p being broken, it just means you are good enough to collect the points this map gives. If you still think a map is imbalanced in the system, call all your friends to try it too.
don't forget that each player has different strengths. a player practicing only streams all day might FC a deathstream maps and then go and say "wtf, this isn't hard took me like 2-3 tries, meanwhile pudding is crazy hard for me and doesn't give much more".
and then another player who spends most of his time on playing jumpy maps literally all day long might eventually get some high combo on a difficult jump map and go "huh, I'm getting points from this random shitty play, but this stream map is completely impossible for me even after many tries and doesn't seem to give as much points wtf?", but in the end you're just getting rewarded for what you're good at.
try to put things into perspective before writing suggestions for this system, maybe ask several other people to play the same maps as you and see how they do on them. you might be surprised at how difficult some things are to other people that look super easy to you, and how stuff you feel is impossible other people can accomplish quickly and relatively effortlessly.
On the other hand, I gave him 3~ TV Sizes and two average lenghty maps for hr (both of which gave the least pp) and he went from rank 700 to 600 in about an hour.
On these issues I feel conflicted. Sometimes it feels like I've found a plausable theory as to how the system works and then this tags along, destroying my theory about bpm, speed, lenght and difficulty.
I guess high BPM 1/2 maps still are not being properly judged by the system. This happened on osu!tp too.
ah yeah, that's whyWishy wrote:
I guess high BPM 1/2 maps still are not being properly judged by the system. This happened on osu!tp too.
I wish that there was not only a list of your best performences, but also one for your worst. That way you aren't taken down in rank by plays that are months old that you forgot about, instead of just taking a shot at a play that looks bad, that may not be considered bad at all. (also got a new best performance ang gained 0pp. I'll just assume its a bug)
You don't lose pp for a bad play unless you just did a worse play that had higher score.[Tums] wrote:
I wish that there was not only a list of your best performences, but also one for your worst. That way you aren't taken down in rank by plays that are months old that you forgot about, instead of just taking a shot at a play that looks bad, that may not be considered bad at all. (also got a new best performance ang gained 0pp. I'll just assume its a bug)