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Performance Points feedback and suggestions (Standard)

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thelewa

peppy wrote:

Please stop using the term "farm". It's shocking and wrong and has such a bad connotation.
as a Finnish farmer who grows potatoes I'm appalled by the misuse of this term

no potatoes for osu! players
Nines

Rewben2 wrote:

You don't need to rank sub-1000 in a song for it to be in your top rankings, majority of my maps in top rankings aren't.
Hehe. Maybe I'm just bad.

Rewben2 wrote:

As far as I know, it has nothing to do with how well you stack up against other people, it's all calculated based on the difficulty of the map, mods and how well you did.
Figured as much as this. Last thing though, you know those arrows next to ranks now? They list the amount of time from present to when you got that score. I have only seen arrows that point up. Can they point down, indicating that it negatively affects your rank (also, does that mean the arrow pointing up means that it positively influences your rank)?
thelewa
yes the arrow signifies Heaven and is a call for all of us players to thank the all-mighty God for having allowed us to loiter around and click circles
if the arrow is pointing downwards it means you've made Jehovah mad.
Rewben2

Tsuchimikado wrote:

Rewben2 wrote:

You don't need to rank sub-1000 in a song for it to be in your top rankings, majority of my maps in top rankings aren't.
Hehe. Maybe I'm just bad.

Rewben2 wrote:

As far as I know, it has nothing to do with how well you stack up against other people, it's all calculated based on the difficulty of the map, mods and how well you did.
Figured as much as this. Last thing though, you know those arrows next to ranks now? They list the amount of time from present to when you got that score. I have only seen arrows that point up. Can they point down, indicating that it negatively affects your rank (also, does that mean the arrow pointing up means that it positively influences your rank)?
I'm pretty sure you can't lose ranks from doing badly and the arrow direction doesn't mean anything, I think it's just there. I might be completely wrong though.

thelewa pls
RaneFire

Salvage wrote:

I really think that having the speed, acc and aim thing here as well will help every player to know what they lack and how to improve, since tp and pp now are really like each other whenever i want to farm pp i'd go to tp and see what gives me points and the most important thing, WHY it gives me points (high speed, aim etc) and that way i'm recognizing the 'training' i'm doing to increase my ranking. (And with this i mean we should be able to see that here too, it's not a big deal but since maps are calculated in another way here, there is a difference from what we're seeing on osutp.net and what we would be seeing here)
Just to elaborate on this.

We currently have "difficulty information" presented on the beatmap page in terms of Circle Size, HP Drain, Accuracy, Star Difficulty, etc. These aspects are not relevant to a map's difficulty so much anymore, and I would like to see more technical stats like TP's aim/speed/acc there as well. (Ok so we HAD a new bar) The new bar was useful to a certain degree, but it doesn't contain any information. What I mean is: I don't know where my skill sits on that bar... that bar needs to be related back to our pp in some way, so that players can determine maps around their skill level or slightly higher.

Now that <Insert shocking word here> is done with, new players need to be given a direction in which to improve their rank, otherwise they will continue to play as normal and never understand why they aren't ranking up, leading to more forum posts. Yes we should play for fun, but results are also important and many people play for both. This is a new system. The way of ranking up is different too.

Unfortunately the star system makes it difficult to find any appropriate maps for these players to play slightly above their level, and many just dive into the deep-end of streaming and jumping, hoping to eventually improve, even after a year. People have been doing this for a long time already... it's bad and direction is needed. The popularity of my gdoc lists is an example of how hard it is to find appropriate maps for improving.
Yabuki Nako
I can't tell if the new ranking is working fine for everyone, my previous rank was 9k, now I'm 8k (my tp rank is 11k).
I don't deserve all of them tbh.

Something is pretty frustrating with this ranking... I mean, my #10 Best Performance are so bad.
One of them is old like 8 month ago.
8 month ago is exactly when I got my tablet (my mechanical 2 month later) and I started to play the game " seriously " .
I'm feeling like I have not improving my play that much. What I did during those 8 month ?

I have to work harder ! ヽ(*≧ω≦)ノ

(And the game don't want to upload any of my plays since 48h.)

/mylife
Kinji
How do you gain pp now?
nooblet

Kinji wrote:

How do you gain pp now?
Just like before, play more and get better
Rewben2

Kinji wrote:

How do you gain pp now?
In a similar way you gain tp, you get good ranks.

If you want an actual method, look at profiles of people ranked similar to yourself and try and beat their scores, or get a similar score. This is all I've been doing and I gained 900 ranks yesterday and 600 today, and my "top performance" is pretty much filled with maps from this time. I'm not even trying hard, I've beaten some scores in 3 or less tries and gained 150 ranks for the map. Easy.
Topic Starter
Tom94
Just wanted to let you all know, that future changes to the system are now documented in the changelog.
buny
rly gud
969363565
I just don't like the ranking system.
Of course, it is impossible to create a system that makes everyone satisfied.
It's reasonable to lower the weight of flashlight, and I accept that.
My rank dropped from #999 to #6030. I'm not surprised because I actually don't have the ability of #999.

However, being a flashlight player, I can't stand that in my best performance, there are no flashlight scores but a lot of strange none records even without fullcombo. I can't stand this kind of treatment.
It is a popular system to measure players' skill, like TP, but it frustrates me.

Playing with flashlight is not only memorizing the map like a robot.
Also, no matter if the system will be changed, I'll keep playing with flashlight because I love it.
I just want to complain.
Rewben2

969363565 wrote:

I just don't like the ranking system.
Of course, it is impossible to create a system that makes everyone satisfied.
It's reasonable to lower the weight of flashlight, and I accept that.
My rank dropped from #999 to #6030. I'm not surprised because I actually don't have the ability of #999.

However, being a flashlight player, I can't stand that in my best performance, there are no flashlight scores but a lot of strange none records even without fullcombo. I can't stand this kind of treatment.
It is a popular system to measure players' skill, like TP, but it frustrates me.

Playing with flashlight is not only memorizing the map like a robot.
Also, no matter if the system will be changed, I'll keep playing with flashlight because I love it.
I just want to complain.

Tom94 wrote:

FL gives a huge bonus on maps which are hard to aim. I am tallking about a 36% increase. However if the movement of the map you played is not that complicated, then even FL won't be able to pull it up by much. I've already been considering to increase FL's bonus even further in the past, since it makes aiming so much harder.
FreshMint
<3 it
hinamizawan
I like it more than the original pp but still there are some confusing delay of scores... I was #1112 this morning, went to get a #2 in an Insane diff no mod then I drop to 1118... shortly after I get a no mod #4 at a Hard diff and suddenly went to 1090.
Topic Starter
Tom94

makkura wrote:

I like it more than the original pp but still there are some confusing delay of scores... I was #1112 this morning, went to get a #2 in an Insane diff no mod then I drop to 1118... shortly after I get a no mod #4 at a Hard diff and suddenly went to 1090.
There are still initial bug-fixes and fine-tuning things happening. Please be patient for the next few days / weeks for it to stabilize a bit more.
Gigo
Nice ranking system Tom! I have 0 (zero (null)) complaints about it. In ppv1 I was rank 10k... when ppv2 was implemented I dropped to rank 17k, which was ok since I know I didn't deserve rank 10k. Then I played >>> https://osu.ppy.sh/s/57950 <<< on Lunatic, finished it with a decent combo (873) and although my accuracy was really bad (95%), I skyrocketed to rank 13k... just from playing one song! So, yeah, keep up the good work!
Horolynn

969363565 wrote:

[...]
I just want to complain.
Most, if not all of your flashlight scores are apparently normal and easy maps, while the ones in top performance are insane and hard. System working as planned?
Fabi
WHY WOULD YOU DELETE MY AWESOME SCORE?????????



:(
vioLinAngel
i like it
Symqn
Just got random +20pp and then random -10pp and -0,10 acc after finishing a hard map that i was playing for fun is there a penalty for playing easyer maps now?
dedaloodak
4k# >> 12k#
gg peppy and crew -.-
uzzi

Symqn wrote:

Just got random +20pp and then random -10pp and -0,10 acc after finishing a hard map that i was playing for fun is there a penalty for playing easyer maps now?
Not sure, but I gained some pp and lost some accuracy as well from playing.
TheBigA
I would be interested in how sliderbreaks are treated (combo breaking ones and just -1 combo ones).
XGeneral2000

Symqn wrote:

Just got random +20pp and then random -10pp and -0,10 acc after finishing a hard map that i was playing for fun is there a penalty for playing easyer maps now?
I think there's a lot of tweaking/adding/updating going on right now, my pp increased this morning despite me not having even opened the client for over 24 hours. My "Top Performances" changed as well. I'm guessing we should give it some time to finish processing and stabilize.

With regards to the highest-performance vs highest-score problem, would it be possible to run a pp-value check after every play (regardless of score) and compare it to the pp-value of the current high score? And if the new play is a higher value, to update the pp accordingly even if high score doesn't change?

I admittedly don't know much about what calculations are done client-side vs server-side, or whether pp is calculated from scratch after every play, or anything like that (I'd be very interested to know, actually, if you have time and if that's disclosable), so I can't suggest much in terms of efficiency. My guess is that there's a table of high scores for every player on the server, and that pp is recalculated each time this table is updated...in this case, the only way to implement this higher-pp vs higher-score idea would be to store a new table of highest-pp scores for every player, which would be very memory-expensive (as I think you mentioned somewhere earlier). The only way I can see to get around this would be to migrate the pp calculations to the client-side, but I don't know how feasible that would be.
Natteke
I've tried to see if I can get any pp at all. Played a bunch of maps, mostly newly ranked with streams and jumps. Got decent acc and ranks, ended up with 0pp. Can someone explain what I'm doing wrong? Is it not real time? I'm confused.
Ippikiryu
Are all the older maps calculated into the current scores? Or are they still updating? Or do you have to replay some to get them reincluded?
Pettanko

Natteke wrote:

I've tried to see if I can get any pp at all. Played a bunch of maps, mostly newly ranked with streams and jumps. Got decent acc and ranks, ended up with 0pp. Can someone explain what I'm doing wrong? Is it not real time? I'm confused.
I think it takes time before your pp updates because when I got a top performance a few days ago it took some time before it showed in my performace history. I'm guessing it updates every few hours or so?
969363565

Draxuss wrote:

Most, if not all of your flashlight scores are apparently normal and easy maps, while the ones in top performance are insane and hard. System working as planned?
I don't know how it works and what should working as planned be like. I'm sure that I have scores that are insane +FL and hard +DTFL, but they are still defeated by the none scores.

Rewben2 wrote:

Tom94 wrote:

FL gives a huge bonus on maps which are hard to aim. I am tallking about a 36% increase. However if the movement of the map you played is not that complicated, then even FL won't be able to pull it up by much. I've already been considering to increase FL's bonus even further in the past, since it makes aiming so much harder.
Thanks a lot. I hadn't read the early replies. :lol:
However, if flashlight can only get a huge bonus on maps which are hard to aim, should DT get a huge bonus only in maps which have high BPM? I don't think DT is much harder than FL, especially in some slow and long maps.


By the way, how about the maps which don't have that many streams and jumps but are hard to read? Is this kind of difficulty considered?
XGeneral2000

969363565 wrote:

However, if flashlight can only get a huge bonus on maps which are hard to aim, should DT get a huge bonus only in maps which have high BPM? I don't think DT is much harder than FL, especially in some slow and long maps.
Theoretically, DT should already only give huge bonus in maps which are harder to begin with. It doesn't add a % multiplier - the difficulty is recalculated from scratch with DT in effect - the same as if you were playing a version mapped at 1.5x speed with no mods. So if a map is slow to begin with, the difficulty won't be that high even with DT.
Metro
Shouldn't country rankings be ordered by average performance?
Full Tablet

Metro wrote:

Shouldn't country rankings be ordered by average performance?

That would give too much ranking to some countries with only 1 player
NixXSkate

Tom94 wrote:

Kert wrote:

And also FL?
FL is not favoured at all?
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/18156 - this must be one of my top plays, yet it's nowhere close
(my assumption is results are ordered almost in the same way as in tp)
FL gives a huge bonus on maps which are hard to aim. I am tallking about a 36% increase. However if the movement of the map you played is not that complicated, then even FL won't be able to pull it up by much. I've already been considering to increase FL's bonus even further in the past, since it makes aiming so much harder.
I think the speed of the map (1/2 notes) with how jumpy it is should play a big part in the FL's bonus system.
http://osutp.net/scores?bid=154889
This is one of the most impressive FL scores yet due to the speed of the map along with its jumps (normally FL scores are on fairly slow maps), but we can see that the system didn't treat Dungeon kindly in comparison to the competition.

Sorry if it was mentioned before, the thread grew quite a bit and didn't want to look through all 17 pages. :o
Metro

Full Tablet wrote:

Metro wrote:

Shouldn't country rankings be ordered by average performance?

That would give too much ranking to some countries with only 1 player
True. But the country rankings are much different than in osu!tp, that's why I'm asking.
wyedwardchan

dedaloodak wrote:

4k# >> 12k#
gg peppy and crew -.-
I know that feel bro
Mine 5k#>>>>18k#

Just fun playing is now not an option, just keep retrying your insane maps dude :roll: :roll:
UNIFO
I have some concerns regarding Performance Points and tying it to difficulty of the map.

Most notably.... songs that involve 5.00 difficulty.

There are some songs at 5.00 difficulty that are not as difficult as some of the insane 5.00 difficulty maps, yet I believe they are treated the same for calculations for PP purposes. (I'll provide examples if needed).

This can be "set up for some level of exploit of getting PP" at around the 1k to 2k PP range, in my opinion. Ie... they can effectively raise their PP by playing and doing really well at the easy 5.00 difficulty maps.


Maybe we need to start ranking maps with 6.00 difficulty to really differentiate the hard and really hard maps... because there is a huge saturation of maps at the 4.75 - 5.00 difficulty range?
Wishy
Lol@people crying because they went from 4k to 600k. If you play for fun then you shouldn't care about your rank.

UNIFO, there is another difficulty calculation system, just ignore the stars, nobody cares about them, pp uses another system to evaluate maps, stars are there just because.
buny

Wishy wrote:

Lol@people crying because they went from 4k to 600k. If you play for fun then you shouldn't care about your rank.

UNIFO, there is another difficulty calculation system, just ignore the stars, nobody cares about them, pp uses another system to evaluate maps, stars are there just because.
i still have scores that took 1 pc in my best performance though
Wishy
Most of the scores I got on my best performance came from score that took me one play, your point? Some examples would be helpful.
buny
my point is that the weighings can still be improved
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