1. osu! forums
  2. osu!
  3. Gameplay & Rankings
show more
posted
...
posted
i dont believe that farming easy and normals should not reward pp at higher levels, but i do believe that hards should be taken account and give some (not as much as ppv1 but some) pp, in the current state it seems that i have to become a circle clicking god to gain ranks, sadly my asian levels have not hit 9000 yet
posted

HandHeldPillow wrote:

i dont believe that farming easy and normals should not reward pp at higher levels, but i do believe that hards should be taken account and give some (not as much as ppv1 but some) pp, in the current state it seems that i have to become a circle clicking god to gain ranks, sadly my asian levels have not hit 9000 yet
Hards still do give a considerable amount of pp - if your best scores consist of hards or worse. You seem to already have climbed up to some Insanes. A ranking system, that tries to tell people how good they are shouldn't reward you a lot for playing maps that are more or less easy for you. Farming is not a bad thing and actually already built in for your first few thousand scores, but with 20,000 plays this has already more or less come to a halt for you.
posted

NaThaNeL wrote:

i don't like it :'(
To get more pp i must pass and read insane
But thats what i can't!!
Iam on Hard + HD so Insane needs to long!
So i must give up my Rank

HandHeldPillow wrote:

i dont believe that farming easy and normals should not reward pp at higher levels, but i do believe that hards should be taken account and give some (not as much as ppv1 but some) pp, in the current state it seems that i have to become a circle clicking god to gain ranks, sadly my asian levels have not hit 9000 yet
If you want ranks, you need to get better. You don't need to be Cookiezi to make your rank higher than it is, you just need to be better than you are right now.

Constantly gaining rank for doing what you always do is exactly what farming is. If you no longer gain rank from what you are doing, the system is telling you that it is time to bite the bullet and improve.

If you don't need to improve to increase rank, what's the point of it?
posted
I think there could be a separate ranking to Speed, Accuracy and Aim, instead of only for Score and overall Performance. You can already calculate each of them, right? It would help give people a notion to what they should improve and what they can already do.
posted

Tom94 wrote:

You can't lose pp by getting a completely new score - that is by passing a map you never passed before. Everything is being reprocessed at the moment, so instabilities like this may occur for a short while. Did you maybe have a NoFail pass on the map before? That one might have been considered better.
Don't you think No Fail and Slow passes should be left out? I mean, I don't even know why they're ranked in the first place, but allowing these to give pps just makes things even messier.
posted
I really think that having the speed, acc and aim thing here as well will help every player to know what they lack and how to improve, since tp and pp now are really like each other whenever i want to farm pp i'd go to tp and see what gives me points and the most important thing, WHY it gives me points (high speed, aim etc) and that way i'm recognizing the 'training' i'm doing to increase my ranking. (And with this i mean we should be able to see that here too, it's not a big deal but since maps are calculated in another way here, there is a difference from what we're seeing on osutp.net and what we would be seeing here)

I'm sorry if explain myself like a retard but well, i tried.



Also i guess this would be dealed with when the wiki comes so it's not like things like this aren't planned, just saying.
posted

FlameseeK wrote:

Tom94 wrote:

You can't lose pp by getting a completely new score - that is by passing a map you never passed before. Everything is being reprocessed at the moment, so instabilities like this may occur for a short while. Did you maybe have a NoFail pass on the map before? That one might have been considered better.
Don't you think No Fail and Slow passes should be left out? I mean, I don't even know why they're ranked in the first place, but allowing these to give pps just makes things even messier.
Not at all, see this hypothetical example, there is a long song with 1000 notes (fc) and 220 bpm, which has a long stream at the end. Player 1 can't stream at that speed, so he plays with NF, and gets a 90% acc 600 combo score, player 2 can barely stream at that speed, and gets a 75% acc 300 combo score, without mods. At least, if you ask me, Player 1 deserves more pp, by far, and that score shouln't be left out.
posted

ChaosVictor wrote:

I think there could be a separate ranking to Speed, Accuracy and Aim, instead of only for Score and overall Performance. You can already calculate each of them, right? It would help give people a notion to what they should improve and what they can already do.
And when the more important stuff is settled, a place where you can see all your contributing maps and their scores.
posted

HandHeldPillow wrote:

i dont believe that farming easy and normals should not reward pp at higher levels, but i do believe that hards should be taken account and give some (not as much as ppv1 but some) pp, in the current state it seems that i have to become a circle clicking god to gain ranks, sadly my asian levels have not hit 9000 yet
What you're basically asking for here is for an increase in rank without an increase in skill. This is exactly why the old ranking system was removed. If you don't like your rank - improve as a player. If you don't want to improve as a player, accept the rank you have.

pold10 wrote:

Not at all, see this hypothetical example, there is a long song with 1000 notes (fc) and 220 bpm, which has a long stream at the end. Player 1 can't stream at that speed, so he plays with NF, and gets a 90% acc 600 combo score, player 2 can barely stream at that speed, and gets a 75% acc 300 combo score, without mods. At least, if you ask me, Player 1 deserves more pp, by far, and that score shouln't be left out.
Wasn't nofail only going to give a 0.05x score decrease? I think this is better, since there are some maps that I can play quite fine until one part that I always fail. Being able to still get a reasonable score for doing well on the rest of the map should be fair.
posted
Also, is the update live? If not when will it be?
posted
What an incredible improvement ! Thank you, like this it seems really more relevant.

Two little suggestions :

* it would be nice if beside the ranks present in the 'top ranks' section of the user pages we could see the corresponding performance ratings, and by the way which mods were used.

* Currently if you get a record in a song where you already have records with a lower performance rating but with higher scores then your last record is not taken into account in the pp evaluation, which is pretty sad. It has been suggested to had a feature to intentionally delete previous plays but would'nt it be better simply if the record with the highest performance rating was the one to be taken into account ? Thus you could divide the scoreboards into two tabs : a main one with plays sorted by their performance rating and another with plays sorted by their score. If you pass a song and beat your previous scores but don't beat your best performance rating then the play will not be taken into account even for the second scoreboard, of course. Like this and not vice-versa would be fairer.

Sorry if I had not been clear enough and thank you again.
posted
I dropped to 60000 from 30000, because I didn't play maps where I couldn't get top 1000 and farmed on normal maps instead, but after playing some of the hard maps I climbed 20000 ranks back up with maps that were a lot harder to play, so I guess it's working :P GJ (and I'm not rank 80000 like in tp -.-)
posted
I would love an option to hide PP and ranking, as i wanna play for fun but it feels like its forcing me to compete
posted

Tom94 wrote:

EvaRia wrote:

The problem with this concept, is that the people who play [hard] diffs, old maps or top-tier maps are very different and therefore the data we have to analyze will also be different. This was one of the main issues of previous pp iterations, making [hard] and old maps being weighted much more, because statistically they seemed harder than they were since most of the good players didn't play them.

Well, keep in mind that what I'm proposing is a purely contextual metric.

I agree that as far as pure skill is involved, the difficulty of the map itself is the most relevant for determining skill level.

But since you're calculating primarily based on difficulty and not on context, where I'm proposing a metric based on context with no regard for difficulty, they could theoretically exist as different metrics right?

Even shoutouts to unique awesome plays (mostly for top tier players) would make things interesting.

"<NAME> is the first to achieve rank <RANK> or better using <MODS> on <BEATMAP> (<RANKING>)!"

I don't know how exactly it would be implemented right now, but as far as a ladder system or proper context frame goes, I feel like it would be better than whatever's currently popular. It gives a certain focus on undermining scores and record-hunting that I think would be neat to see. It would also be pretty dynamic, I think.

Unstable maps are played to get the score bonus, but as they get played they stabilize again. This leaves the more difficult maps that take much longer to stabilize lingering at the top of the chart and looking through it gives you a handy way of finding the most "relevant" leaderboards.

Maybe this doesn't work the way I imagine it would though?
What you're describing is somewhat dimilar to what the previous pp iterations tried to do and you've seen where it led to. Nobody has the time to play _all_ the overrated old / easy diffs to farm and make them "stable".
With a lot of work a system like that might be tuned to be somewhat correct, but from my past experiences (yes, I also tried those kind of things with tp to a small degree) it doubt it'd be feasible.

The shoutouts you mention are indeed very interesting, but that would be even harder to implement with the way scoring works at the moment.
Most of the older and easier maps are incredibly stable already. There's less, not more incentive to play them based on what I'm describing.

The incentive is to do better in maps that NOT stabilized.

This doesn't necessarily have to be part of the ppv2 algorithm but could be a way of building something like a dynamic chart consisting of the most relevant scoreboards.
posted
I briefly looked through this thread and I didn't find a similar case, but I got a new top rank score according to both the tp and the ppv2 system. However, the thing that confuses me is that I did not gain any pp points for the run, though I gained quite a bit of tp points. The beatmap was SYNC.ART'S - Sins -Kokoro no Tsumi- under the nightmare difficulty.

My question is, why didn't it give me any pp for the run? I mean the accuracy was 99.06% with a full combo of 1087 and with the dt mod used. I have heard of several other players experiencing this, but I couldn't find an exact answer as to why this occurs.

Oh, and on a side note, why does it say that I'm rank 36 and not 34 for the beatmap?
posted

EvaRia wrote:

Most of the older and easier maps are incredibly stable already. There's less, not more incentive to play them based on what I'm describing.

The incentive is to do better in maps that NOT stabilized.

This doesn't necessarily have to be part of the ppv2 algorithm but could be a way of building something like a dynamic chart consisting of the most relevant scoreboards.
I'm afraid I don't quite grasp what you call "unstable" then. Also note the word "most", that you have been using. The ranking system needs to be reliable on all maps - or more precisely: the worst-case error should be minimized. Single points of failure can easily spoil things.
If you can give me a detailed explanation of what you have in mind, then don't hestitate to send me some paragraphs per PM. I'm talking about precise definitions of what "unstable" would be and how the scores should be weighted according to it. I'm curious. :)


Nagashurai wrote:

I briefly looked through this thread and I didn't find a similar case, but I got a new top rank score according to both the tp and the ppv2 system. However, the thing that confuses me is that I did not gain any pp points for the run, though I gained quite a bit of tp points. The beatmap was SYNC.ART'S - Sins -Kokoro no Tsumi- under the nightmare difficulty.

My question is, why didn't it give me any pp for the run? I mean the accuracy was 99.06% with a full combo of 1087 and with the dt mod used. I have heard of several other players experiencing this, but I couldn't find an exact answer as to why this occurs.

Oh, and on a side note, why does it say that I'm rank 36 and not 34 for the beatmap?
Are you 100%ly sure, that your pp didn't change, or did it simply not display any change in-game? Because if it displays in your best-performance list, then it definitely gets included in the calculation for your pp value.

Regarding the rank 36 notification in your profile: Either it is connected to scores getting removed from said map after you achieved rank 36 (unlikely) or it is indeed a bug. That one doesn't have to do with pp and it would be great if you could report it as a bug in the appropriate subforum. :)
posted
do approved maps give pp with ppv2?
posted

Tom94 wrote:

EvaRia wrote:

Most of the older and easier maps are incredibly stable already. There's less, not more incentive to play them based on what I'm describing.

The incentive is to do better in maps that NOT stabilized.

This doesn't necessarily have to be part of the ppv2 algorithm but could be a way of building something like a dynamic chart consisting of the most relevant scoreboards.
I'm afraid I don't quite grasp what you call "unstable" then. Also note the word "most", that you have been using. The ranking system needs to be reliable on all maps - or more precisely: the worst-case error should be minimized. Single points of failure can easily spoil things.
If you can give me a detailed explanation of what you have in mind, then don't hestitate to send me some paragraphs per PM. I'm talking about precise definitions of what "unstable" would be and how the scores should be weighted according to it. I'm curious. :)


Nagashurai wrote:

I briefly looked through this thread and I didn't find a similar case, but I got a new top rank score according to both the tp and the ppv2 system. However, the thing that confuses me is that I did not gain any pp points for the run, though I gained quite a bit of tp points. The beatmap was SYNC.ART'S - Sins -Kokoro no Tsumi- under the nightmare difficulty.

My question is, why didn't it give me any pp for the run? I mean the accuracy was 99.06% with a full combo of 1087 and with the dt mod used. I have heard of several other players experiencing this, but I couldn't find an exact answer as to why this occurs.

Oh, and on a side note, why does it say that I'm rank 36 and not 34 for the beatmap?
Are you 100%ly sure, that your pp didn't change, or did it simply not display any change in-game? Because if it displays in your best-performance list, then it definitely gets included in the calculation for your pp value.

Regarding the rank 36 notification in your profile: Either it is connected to scores getting removed from said map after you achieved rank 36 (unlikely) or it is indeed a bug. That one doesn't have to do with pp and it would be great if you could report it as a bug in the appropriate subforum. :)


Yes, I am positive that my pp did not change at all. I had my internet page up on my profile and updated it as soon as the score was made. I thought it would take a few hours to submit and take affect, so I waited the night and even played a couple of beatmaps today to see if it would update. my pp has remained at 4761 before and after the score was made.

I will go to a report forum about that other issue since it has occurred on several beatmaps for me now. Probably due to players that have had no activity for a while and the system still keeps their score or something.
posted

Nagashurai wrote:

I briefly looked through this thread and I didn't find a similar case, but I got a new top rank score according to both the tp and the ppv2 system. However, the thing that confuses me is that I did not gain any pp points for the run, though I gained quite a bit of tp points. The beatmap was SYNC.ART'S - Sins -Kokoro no Tsumi- under the nightmare difficulty.

My question is, why didn't it give me any pp for the run? I mean the accuracy was 99.06% with a full combo of 1087 and with the dt mod used. I have heard of several other players experiencing this, but I couldn't find an exact answer as to why this occurs.

Oh, and on a side note, why does it say that I'm rank 36 and not 34 for the beatmap?
It's the same for me, I set 3 scores that would have given me a large amount of TP points, just now! Yet they didn't give me any pp at all, not even 1? This is probably a bug
show more
Please sign in to reply.