RaneFire wrote:

YayMii wrote:

Just a question: will the new PP difficulty algorithm be replacing the current in-game star difficulty rating in the future?

And is there any way to integrate this with the client for beatmaps existing/already downloaded? So we can sort by difficulty in song select and it would be accurate?

Or is that what you meant?

That's exactly what I meant. The new difficulty algorithm rating is already visible on the beatmap pages EDIT: no longer visible . I wanna see them in game.

Finally, a skill-based ranking that doesn't revolve around [Hard] farmers.

This is beautiful. No complaints.

R e d wrote:

ItHR still have a over value?

Lets have Thelewa for example: He is really good Hr Hd but he don't have so much speed and DT accuracy as SnowWhite, Dungeon or DragonHuman.

I Respect Thelewa. But still think he don't deserve 3#

It depends a lot really. Some maps that are practically impossible to aim propely that only a handful of players can hdhr deserves pp as well. Don't you agree?

Speed isn't everything you know!

I think this is a lot more fair than old pp system. One thing I wanted to say is that some scores are overestimated: my score on this map: http://osu.ppy.sh/b/338594&m=0 is 300 combo (with over 800 full combo) and 84,44% acc. Because it's fresh map I have #84, and probably for that reason it landed in my Top Ranks. I wouldn't consider this a good score, so I wonder why it's so high performance.
Also, because of that single score, my overall acc fell from 95,51% to 95,15%, which isn't cool :/

.

What about calculating accuracy with unstable rate? Or is it that hard to calculate on every map played?.

Salvage wrote:

What about considering accuracy with unstable rate? Or is it that hard to calculate on every map played?.

I don't think it is possible since I don't think there is enough information stored to retrieve that value exactly.

It can be estimated though, as long as you ignore sliders (since sliders can potentially increase UR without reducing accuracy, since they don't need to be hit accurately).

DT is better for pp, as FL. If i haв highscore with DT, but i've broken my old DT-record with FL, my old reord must be deleted from base and i lose pp, isn't it?
For exampe, WoobWoofWolf has his the best record for "Saiya - Remote Control" beatmap now. He has 5 misses, but he used DT+HD mode. But SnowWhite played this map without DT, with HD+HR, have FC, but doesn't have this map for Best Perfomance. If WoobWoofWolf plays now map without mods and break his own records, he loses old records and loses pp.
So, best score for beatmap is not best pp. It is better to use DT and don't play other mods without DT. Is it wrong?
update: I see answer in next post now, thank you.

Wojowu wrote:

I think this is a lot more fair than old pp system. One thing I wanted to say is that some scores are overestimated: my score on this map: http://osu.ppy.sh/b/338594&m=0 is 300 combo (with over 800 full combo) and 84,44% acc. Because it's fresh map I have #84, and probably for that reason it landed in my Top Ranks. I wouldn't consider this a good score, so I wonder why it's so high performance.
Also, because of that single score, my overall acc fell from 95,51% to 95,15%, which isn't cool :/

The score rank you get on a map does not matter at all for the new pp. Only your performance together with the beatmap difficulty counts. Maybe the map was really hard? I've seen a C in jesus1412's best performance list and it was a crazy hard DT score, about as hard as FCing mendes with DoubleTime. I'll take a look what's happening with your scores, though.

R e d wrote:

ItHR still have a over value?

Lets have Thelewa for example: He is really good Hr Hd but he don't have so much speed and DT accuracy as SnowWhite, Dungeon or DragonHuman.

I Respect Thelewa. But still think he don't deserve 3#

thelewa only makes us believe he'd be slow. He 99.5%ed Chipscape! That's not slow. His top scores might not be the fastest, but they are an amazing combination of speed, aim and acc. That being said it doesn't mean, that you are wrong. I am just mentioning it.

UE95 wrote:

Will my pp benefit in any shape or form if I keep improving my previous scores? Also, does it have to be a drastic improvement? I'm really sorry if these are dumb questions, I'm just a bit overwhelmed by this new system :/

Score improvements won't always benefit your pp. On a map which is really hard to DT beating your DT score with HR might actually reduce your pp. This is currently a limitation I wish there wouldn't be, but it exists.

Salvage wrote:

What about calculating accuracy with unstable rate? Or is it that hard to calculate on every map played?.

Something similar to unstable rate is used. OD does play a huge role. We are already considering, to update the accuracy displayed in the player profiles to a more sensible measure, while maybe keeping the old value in parantheses.

MosaicII wrote:

DT is better for pp, as FL. If i haв highscore with DT, but i've broken my old DT-record with FL, my old reord must be deleted from base and i lose pp, isn't it?
For exampe, WoobWoofWolf has his the best record for "Saiya - Remote Control" beatmap now. He has 5 misses, but he used DT+HD mode. But SnowWhite played this map without DT, with HD+HR, have FC, but doesn't have this map for Best Perfomance. If WoobWoofWolf plays now map without mods and break his own records, he loses old records and loses pp.
So, best score for beatmap is not best pp. It is better to use DT and don't play other mods without DT. Is it wrong?

You are correct. I wish this limitation wouldn't exist, but there is no possibility of changing it for the moment.

Full Tablet wrote:

Salvage wrote:

What about considering accuracy with unstable rate? Or is it that hard to calculate on every map played?.

I don't think it is possible since I don't think there is enough information stored to retrieve that value exactly.

It can be estimated though, as long as you ignore sliders (since sliders can potentially increase UR without reducing accuracy, since they don't need to be hit accurately).

Including sliders, that was my point, but well i guess it can't be done.


Oh, ninja'd .. glad to hear that then tom .

Full Tablet wrote:

Salvage wrote:

What about considering accuracy with unstable rate? Or is it that hard to calculate on every map played?.

I don't think it is possible since I don't think there is enough information stored to retrieve that value exactly.

It can be estimated though, as long as you ignore sliders (since sliders can potentially increase UR without reducing accuracy, since they don't need to be hit accurately).

Sliders and spinners already are ignored for the part of the calculation that is responsible for accuracy. But yeah, in the end it only is an approximation of unstable rate due to per-hitobject data not being available.

I went from rank 15k to rank 9k. That's...something. I guess it's because I tried really hard to do well on harder songs and didn't farm normal/hards very much at all?

MosaicII wrote:

DT is better for pp, as FL. If i haв highscore with DT, but i've broken my old DT-record with FL, my old reord must be deleted from base and i lose pp, isn't it?
For exampe, WoobWoofWolf has his the best record for "Saiya - Remote Control" beatmap now. He has 5 misses, but he used DT+HD mode. But SnowWhite played this map without DT, with HD+HR, have FC, but doesn't have this map for Best Perfomance. If WoobWoofWolf plays now map without mods and break his own records, he loses old records and loses pp.
So, best score for beatmap is not best pp. It is better to use DT and don't play other mods without DT. Is it wrong?

The old ppv1 system had the same issue. A solution would be storing "best performances" separately from "best scores", but the problem is that would be expensive in term of server resources; and if the system has time degradation of scores, it wouldn't solve the problem in all cases (depending in how the degradation is implemented)

Not sure if this belongs here but I'll ask anyway.

Are there plans on fixing the star star sytem by replacing it with the beatmap difficulty level?

I'm not sure if I'm understand the "all scores are used" thing, but tell me if I'm right with this example:

Score 1: 10,000,000 score, played on normal, FC 100%.
Score 2: 3,000,000 score, played on DT/HD, had 1 miss. 99%.

My best score would show up as Score 1, but my best "performance" would probably be from Score 2, so the PP I get from Score 2 would count for my PP ranking?

kreph wrote:

Not sure if this belongs here but I'll ask anyway.

Are there plans on fixing the star star sytem by replacing it with the beatmap difficulty level?

That sure sounds like a nice idea, considering all the maps already have a difficulty rating calculated by the system.

Izzypookins wrote:

I'm not sure if I'm understand the "all scores are used" thing, but tell me if I'm right with this example:

Score 1: 10,000,000 score, played on normal, FC 100%.
Score 2: 3,000,000 score, played on DT/HD, had 1 miss. 99%.

My best score would show up as Score 1, but my best "performance" would probably be from Score 2, so the PP I get from Score 2 would count for my PP ranking?

All scores being used means that it doesn't have the limitation that tp had where it could only access top 50 score data. PPv2 has access to ranks beyond top 50 which is why they say all scores are used.

Izzypookins wrote:

I'm not sure if I'm understand the "all scores are used" thing, but tell me if I'm right with this example:

Score 1: 10,000,000 score, played on normal, FC 100%.
Score 2: 3,000,000 score, played on DT/HD, had 1 miss. 99%.

My best score would show up as Score 1, but my best "performance" would probably be from Score 2, so the PP I get from Score 2 would count for my PP ranking?

If both scores are on the same map, then the higher score value gets used, even if the other would give more pp. As I mentioned earlier we can not work around this at the moment.
If those 2 scores are on different maps, then how much pp you will get highly depends on how hard the maps are.

Tom94 wrote:

Izzypookins wrote:

I'm not sure if I'm understand the "all scores are used" thing, but tell me if I'm right with this example:

Score 1: 10,000,000 score, played on normal, FC 100%.
Score 2: 3,000,000 score, played on DT/HD, had 1 miss. 99%.

My best score would show up as Score 1, but my best "performance" would probably be from Score 2, so the PP I get from Score 2 would count for my PP ranking?

If both scores are on the same map, then the higher score value gets used, even if the other would give more pp. As I mentioned earlier we can not work around this at the moment.
If those 2 scores are on different maps, then how much pp you will get highly depends on how hard the maps are.

Got it! Thanks!

Damn where's the beatmaps that i have farm. 9k ---> 27k , guess that's because me too mach farm back then :'(

Is it just me or mods aren't affecting too much in the new pp ranking?

well, i think the current system is the closest to perfect ~ time to farm

.

UE95 wrote:

Hey there thank you so much for replying. One last question, you did mention Dt and HR in your example. How well would Hidden fare against those two and against scores without mods?

I can't give definite answers for any mod. All I can say is that it depends a lot on the map. The new system does not just multiply the value of map when adding mods, it calculates a whole new difficulty with the mods. For example, if you're playing a map with DoubleTime, then the algorithm will calculate a new difficulty value of the map, considering it to be 1.5x as fast. With HardRock it considers the circles smaller and the OD higher. Hidden gives a bonus to the aiming-aspect of the map, so it has a greater effect on maps which are harder to aim.
The same logic applies to all other mods.

I'm not sure if it was written anywhere in here, but I would like to be able to see more than just 10 of my top performances. If a player by themselves could see all, or more than just their top 10 scores (Maybe top 100?) it would be very useful.

.

Really good job, I don't feel like a farmer

UE95 wrote:

Haha no worries man, I respect the secrecy. Your answer cleared my doubts either way, thank you! Once the full criteria is updated on the wiki I'll know more. GL with the new system ^^

Not like I want to keep it a secret. I just don't want to type a few paragraphs now and in the wiki later on. Call it laziness.

.

I feel a bit skeptical about encompassing ALL passed ( I am assuming passed ) play-through scores tallying into your rank at the moment. I haven't gotten a chance to hop into multiplayer yet and get a feel for how other players compare to me but personally, I've lived in multiplayer for the past 2 odd years. I've made it a personal rule never to auto-fail in an MP match because I missed a note or made a silly mistake which means I have thousands of play-throughs with horribad scores becuase mr/mrs host decided to tack on DT or I was feeling dangerous and decided to live in the HD HR side of life. Or I was just with a bunch of friends and we were dicking around playing '08-'09 maps, HR super small circle size maps, troll an insane diff AR5 map, etc...

I have not toiled a lot of effort compiling this post, it is simply a couple ideas that came to mind while playing and gestating around the post about this new system being implemented. I have no intention of trying to get into the nitty-gritty about "X" mod gives less value then "Y" mod, my ACC dropped because of those 50 D ranks I have from 4 years ago, trying to meta-game the system to know why exactly "Z" map gives more points then "W" map. I really could care less about whatever new system comes out next and how it ultimately effects my golden number. I say give the option to choose what you want in osu! options to display the new pp/tp system or your original total ranked score rank.

The concern I'm trying to get at is for those who really only play multiplayer now and its effects compared to those who really only play singleplayer and have the ability to always ESC->Retry to their heart's content. I do not find the excuse of 'then auto fail the map if you don't want your score tallied' since it undermines the purpose of multiplayer to those who may have thought that while reading this.

Should there be a completely different point system for MP playing? (this subject is irrelevant to everything else in this post, but came to mind while typing it all. Kinda came outta left field.)

From your lovely flying fish who lives in MP, day in and day out, FishHook. I hope something in this post of rambling helps you in your advancement of the new ranking system. Cheers.

FishHook wrote:

The concern I'm trying to get at is for those who really only play multiplayer now and its effects compared to those who really only play singleplayer and have the ability to always ESC->Retry to their heart's content. I do not find the excuse of 'then auto fail the map if you don't want your score tallied' since it undermines the purpose of multiplayer to those who may have thought that while reading this.

The bad scores you got while playing MP shouldn't affect your ranking much.
As for your accuracy, you can increase it by getting good accuracy in hard maps.

Would it be possible for osutp.net to obtain scores out of the top 50 range since it has been implemented into official osu rankings? it would be great if we can get an exact value on each of our best plays!

Still don't think it's perfect. My top performances are a joke, I did them in many less tries than some of my top performances in the old system. I think you've done a good job to reduce the effect of farmed hard difficulty maps in some way but in other ways you have ruined a lot of people's hard performances.

­

Yuzuru wrote:

9k ---> 27k , guess that's because me too mach farm back then :'(

Everyone who used to rank up by tricking the system are getting wrecked quite hard now huehue
 
 
More seriously; I always felt like short fast streams were a bit underrated in tp, feels pretty much the same here.
A short 250bpm stream (~11 circles) will be worth less than a long 210bpm stream (17+ circles), but the first one is way harder imo.
 
 
 
Other than that, because it's also close from tp it's a really nice ranking system. Good job there :p

GoldenWolf wrote:

Everyone who used to rank up by tricking the system are getting wrecked quite hard now huehue

...except me!

Liiraye wrote:

R e d wrote:

ItHR still have a over value?

Lets have Thelewa for example: He is really good Hr Hd but he don't have so much speed and DT accuracy as SnowWhite, Dungeon or DragonHuman.

I Respect Thelewa. But still think he don't deserve 3#

It depends a lot really. Some maps that are practically impossible to aim propely that only a handful of players can hdhr deserves pp as well. Don't you agree?

Speed isn't everything you know!

Yes but i can say the same for Fast maps with Dt, Where is impossible for Thelewa beat SnowWhite or Dungeon.

Accuracy isn't everything you know!

Is there multiplicator for NF?

I was #169 I was so happy

now im #161

i hate all of you responsible for this

Well I went from 5.8k to 11k. I did trick the system quite a bit to get to 5k, but not too much. The proof being I've already climbed 4k ranks since I've logged in.

My main issue though is that sometimes I will pass a song, it will end up in my best performances, but I won't get any pp for it. A little strange. Also, osusig doesn't update properly. I've had to change the signature layout twice already just to update it, but that's fairly miniscule.

I noticed the new ranking system favors mods even though some no mod maps are a lot more difficult and reward less.