Performance Points feedback and suggestions (Standard)

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TghMonster
Does acount standing can affect off pp gaining?? because in my dashboard historitical i get 26pp but in profile it's only counted 6 pp idk it's going so hard to gainning pp
PaiMan2710
MTGPROD
Euh... bah c'est trop simple a avoir les pp
OriginallsSky
I do not get the right amount of pp that I should earn
In my profile it shows that I won 12 but in fact I did not get any pp

Help
dellar68
Loved beatmaps should have pp
Mec
Hello:) here is a old map, i just back this game want to Rank it.
I hope i can get some advise for rank. thanks.
https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/634927/#osu/1347057
Refills

Mec wrote:

Hello:) here is a old map, i just back this game want to Rank it.
I hope i can get some advise for rank. thanks.
https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/634927/#osu/1347057
not the place to ask
ShinyNinetales
Why don't make PP scores works as the same way as ranked score? Making one PP score per mapset would help very much in the most polemic PP problem nowadays: the farming (especially in those maps where the only purpose they exist is for PP farming)
Vens
Is it possible that in due time, something will be done to balance DT and FL pp wise?

They both propose a 0.12 increase in score yet they yield such a different pp value that it makes FL worthless to someone who can go fast. As well as making it seem as if someone with good memory is equivalent in skill to a rather, very fast play. It also blocks off people from setting higher pp scores on a map that they already have a FL score on. Unsurprisingly that's the case I'm in in fact.

Say you were to take 2 notes. Each note is hit for 300 score, then multiplied by each mod (and combo) to 1008 score. However the PP value they have could easily be drastically different, so why isn't the score as well? It makes setting better pp scores (for example, on a map that you really love to play) pretty hard if you want to mod it a bit.
silmarilen

Portall wrote:

It also blocks off people from setting higher pp scores on a map that they already have a FL score on. Unsurprisingly that's the case I'm in in fact.
This hasn't been the case for quite a while now. osu! saves all scores made with different mod combinations and the one that's worth the most pp is the one that gets used.


Portall wrote:

Say you were to take 2 notes. Each note is hit for 300 score, then multiplied by each mod (and combo) to 1008 score. However the PP value they have could easily be drastically different, so why isn't the score as well? It makes setting better pp scores (for example, on a map that you really love to play) pretty hard if you want to mod it a bit.
Because score predates pp by about 7 years.
FighuYT
The pp system seems way too favoured towards high ar maps atm with jumps. I also feel like EZ could get a buff and FL plays could be appreciated more by the pp system. Apart from that I think the recent HD nerf was much needed. The system is very complex which means it is hard to be tampered with and I think the state of the system is fine atm but these issues above need to be addressed.
CurvyMage

Tom94 wrote:

Hello everyone,

please leave your feedback for the Standard mode performance ranking here. Every suggestion is appreciated!

Changes to the system are documented in the changelog.
Honestly the pp system should go by actual graphics over the programming, maybe make sliders more worth your time, more pp heavy farm maps will be more enjoyable
cormanclan
Playing Hard Songs is worthless.
Speed and difficulty already needed a buff now there irrelevant due to speed accuracy changes. Simply surviving a harder song then your used to with any accuracy is much harder then nearly full combing a much easy song with a insured high accuracy.

Example:
After 3 attempts to survive ("Make a move")insane 4.9 stars, i did it! with a inevitably low accuracy and combo who cares it was difficult for me. because of low accuracy you get 14pp which might as while be a slap in the face or even trying.

to proof a point
My first try of ("Black and White")hard 3.4 stars i got 94% and 38pp. I didn't even full combo it and got double the points of a much harder beat map.

Returning the speed accuracy to what it was would make this problem less critical, but ideally it should be changed in the opposite directions to encourage player to improve there ability's not just perfect the easiest songs they can full combo.
Vuelo Eluko
Star rating is not meant to reflect difficulty to pass but simply difficulty to full combo. To that end, pp is mostly rewarded based on combo, with some concessions for partial combo and a focus on accuracy.
TeamTsundereNat
the performance point system reform was a good thing.
PKrab
So ive been playing for quite a while but took a break from playing for a bit and when I just now came back my pp for standard has reset to 0. strange because im level 92 with tons of good plays on my account? some feedback would help, maybe there was an update and im just looking at things wrong
Vuelo Eluko

PKrab wrote:

So ive been playing for quite a while but took a break from playing for a bit and when I just now came back my pp for standard has reset to 0. strange because im level 92 with tons of good plays on my account? some feedback would help, maybe there was an update and im just looking at things wrong
Ratikell
I honestly don't have the skill or capacity to rate this. But I don't really think the system needs to be changed. Its good in itself.
daze16
It seems to me that some of the metrics in the PP system are extremely abuseable, and end up shaping the meta significantly (people play what gives PP, people map what people play, so people map for PP). The 2 main culprits for metrics that affect this are max combo, and misses.

The PP system values misses evenly independantly of the number of objects in a map, using the formula 0.97^m (at least, this is the last value I saw, and what I have seen seems to reflect this fairly closely). If I play a short PP farm map with 150 objects, and miss 10% of them (effectively butchering the map, 15 total for the short map), my PP drops by 63%. A fairly significant loss, but if the base PP is high, retaining 37% of this base value can steal lead to a decent play. If I play a long map such as Yomi Yori Kikoyu, there are 3070 objects. If I miss 10% of them, I am essentially playing the map as well as the above map, which is 307 misses in this case (not even accounting for fatigue, you will likely miss an even higher % of notes in the longer song due to fatigue, yet instead of this being accounted for, it is punished, severely).

In this case, however, instead of retaining 37% of my PP, I retain less than 1% (I believe there ends up being a lower floor, or somthing similar, but this is hit long before 307 misses). In order to have the same effect as the shorter map, I would have to miss only 15 notes here as well. On the short map, hitting 90% of notes is equivalent to a 99.5% hit rate on the longer map.

The solution for this would be to have PP be effected by misses based on percentage misses as opposed to flat number of misses. An example suggestion of an adjusted formula could be:
(1-(30/max notes))^m



The other culprit (combo), is an even more abuseable metric, for 2 seperate reasons (length, and consistency). If a song has difficulty spikes spaced evenly throughout it, you will likely combo break periodically, never retaining a significant combo (significant meaning 50% of a song, as 50% of a song causes you to lose ~43% of your PP, and going below this causes huge losses). This means a PP map with 200 easy notes and 20 hard notes, with the 20 hard notes all at the end will allow players to miss almost all of the hard part, and still retain 90% combo, causing large PP gains, whereas a map that has 20 hard notes in bursts of 5 in 4 separate places a player may hit the same easy notes, and miss the same hard notes, but where the first player would only lose 8% of a songs base PP, the second player would lose 73% of it. This is not even accounting for the second point, length.

If a player hits the same portion of notes on a long song and a short song, you can expect their max combo to increase roughly with the log of the songs length, yet the formula expects this value to increase linearly. (It is way easier to hit a 75 note combo on a 150 note song than a 1500 note combo on a 3000 note song, just from an intuitive perspective, yet these award equal pp).

The solution to combo is to remove it from the PP calculations altogether. I realize that this might seem to be rather poor feedback, but for the above reasons I believe that combo is essentially impossible to gauge as to how it reflects a players performance, and mappers simply end up mapping short songs with 80% of the song being super easy and the last 20% being a massive diff spike to abuse this system.



In addition to the above 2 points, since short maps can be played much more quickly, more attempts in a similar period of time means you get more chances for a good run. I can play a 1 minute map 5 times in the same time I can play a 5 minute map, so it should be expected that a run on a 5 minute map would give more PP than a similar performance run on a 1 minute map (reward to time spend ration should be similar). The PP calculation for song length is shaped sort of like a graph with the formula 1/x^n. I'm not sure the exact values, but this could likely be tweaked a little bit so diminishing returns from extra PP from long songs tapers off a little slower.



The current meta focuses on very short songs with 75-80% easy sections, and short diff spikes at the end. It feels a bad that top 50 plays on the Promethean kings are giving single digit PP (1 play even giving 0 pp), and a DT play on Harumachi Clover where you miss 10 or 15 notes can give triple digit PP with much less skill required, and only takes 20 seconds, and this effects how mappers make their maps. Hopefully with a few tweaks to the system, the formula could better reflect how impressive a play on a given map actually was, which would allow mappers map different styles and lengths of maps without the player base ignoring them as much as they give no PP (unless you are cookiezi and can FC 3000 note maps with tons of jumps and deathstreams).


TLDR:
-change formula for misses to account for song length (ex, (1-(30/notes))^misses
-remove combo from the formula (too hard to account for, too abuseable)
-reward marathon maps slightly higher








EDIT:
Could also add a damping formula to prevent a small number of notes creating all the PP value in a song (ex below of how this can cause issues)

https://youtu.be/Vh15Q9Mdias
https://youtu.be/5iXTTfozN0U
https://youtu.be/CsqMGBJ1m6g (3.5k PP 1 button click)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjLABPThKuk (after more consideration, a damping formula is really needed to prevent this kind of abuse)
TheAlphaSheep
buff (spaced) streams and high acc plays for touchscreen
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