Except that doesn't happen. Please keep your points at least realistic.Rewben2 wrote:
Except the ranking system is actually about combo - You can get 50's on every single note but fc and beat someone who got 90%+ with misses, because its so aim dependant.
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A few words of so-called combos
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I know, I was just exaggerating the importance of combo. Although it was definitely unrealistic.JappyBabes wrote:
Except that doesn't happen. Please keep your points at least realistic.Rewben2 wrote:
Except the ranking system is actually about combo - You can get 50's on every single note but fc and beat someone who got 90%+ with misses, because its so aim dependant.
Topic Starter
Of course I know osu! is not about real music, that was not I meant.Rewben2 wrote:
(...) Your "real musician" analogy doesn't apply at all... There's no such thing as "combo" in music or 300's/100's. In real music (at least if you were playing an instrument) it would actually be about playing all the correct notes in time/in tune. You can't just skip notes randomly. (...)Pelaaja_X wrote:
(...) Remember: this game is about MUSIC, and real musicians don't calculate combos at all. (...)
You said that one can't skip notes randomly while playing an instrument. Well, of course not on purpose. But I wouldn't say that if you miss a note while playing instrument, it would spoil the whole song; mostly no one even hears it. Everybody makes mistakes, even the best musicians. Osu! instead is like if it was made by those perfectionists who always start over after one...
My reasoning skills aren't the best, but you're still getting my point, aren't you?
You could always put a cap on max combo like at 300 notes or something so that the multiplier didn't get out of hand to balloon scores. But for me I like the combo system because of the thrill you get toward the middle to end of a song when you know you can't miss.
if you can't keep combo, play more
If music is too difficult for you to play that you are missing notes, you shouldn't be playing it. For stringed instruments such as violin, if you miss a note your bow will end up going in the opposite direction of other people you are playing with (if you go up-down-up-down and suddenly miss one, you'll end up being on a different stroke than the other people you're playing with. This is extremely noticeable) although you can cover this up by going in the same direction twice. Just an example of where missing a note isn't as simple as just "Oh damn I missed one, let's continue" like you could on a piano.Pelaaja_X wrote:
Of course I know osu! is not about real music, that was not I meant.Rewben2 wrote:
(...) Your "real musician" analogy doesn't apply at all... There's no such thing as "combo" in music or 300's/100's. In real music (at least if you were playing an instrument) it would actually be about playing all the correct notes in time/in tune. You can't just skip notes randomly. (...)
You said that one can't skip notes randomly while playing an instrument. Well, of course not on purpose. But I wouldn't say that if you miss a note while playing instrument, it would spoil the whole song; mostly no one even hears it. Everybody makes mistakes, even the best musicians. Osu! instead is like if it was made by those perfectionists who always start over after one...
My reasoning skills aren't the best, but you're still getting my point, aren't you?
I would say the "best musicians" make far less mistakes in terms of missing/skipping notes than the top osu! players make in terms of missing beats. Most people don't fc a song every single play (unless you are playing songs well below your skill level) or even majority of plays, most plays are spent retrying songs.
If you want to talk about people who retry songs over and over for the fc, then the musician equivalent would be recording yourself playing a song for something. People would definitely keep retrying that until they get the song right.
osu! is not a musical instrument, you are using the music made by other people as an aid for your gameplay, not making music with your gameplay.
congrats for making the most useless post in this threadbewaredrev wrote:
combo breaker
@Pelaaja_X : You didn't understand what this game is about.
It's about clicking circles on the screen, and you have to move a cursor in order to reach the circles => Aim-based game. Combo is important because the core of the game is the aim, not accuracy.
It's... pretty dumb to discuss if aim or accuracy is more "important" or more of a "core" of the gameplay...
The amount of skill required for either one is completely different by each map.
I do believe combo multiplier is pretty broken at its current state. Like it was mentioned earlier, a run with ONE miss, can have completely different scores depending on which point of the song the combo was broken. If it was the first note or the last note, it would be the equivalent of getting a score with one less note. However, if you miss in the middle of the song, your score suffers a lot. Accuracy also starts to matter a lot more later in the song, because a 100 done in the beginning of the song with a small combo count has a completely different score worth than a 100 done near the end of the song, when the combo is a lot higher.
You really can't defend this flaw.
Thankfully, ppv2 doesn't take score or rank into count at all anymore. A tiny combo break is nearly un-punishable.
The amount of skill required for either one is completely different by each map.
I do believe combo multiplier is pretty broken at its current state. Like it was mentioned earlier, a run with ONE miss, can have completely different scores depending on which point of the song the combo was broken. If it was the first note or the last note, it would be the equivalent of getting a score with one less note. However, if you miss in the middle of the song, your score suffers a lot. Accuracy also starts to matter a lot more later in the song, because a 100 done in the beginning of the song with a small combo count has a completely different score worth than a 100 done near the end of the song, when the combo is a lot higher.
You really can't defend this flaw.
Thankfully, ppv2 doesn't take score or rank into count at all anymore. A tiny combo break is nearly un-punishable.
The system is what the system is. Rather than worrying about how the system reacts under current tournament conditions, why don't we change tournament conditions to better represent the players' performance under the given system?
Objectively false. Music is about expression, games are about massaging a score system.Pelaaja_X wrote:
Remember: this game is about MUSIC, and real musicians don't calculate combos at all.
If somebody can FC a song with nearly all 50's and 100's without using an offset, they deserve their incoming C rank more than those chumps getting 1 miss and an A rank. That shit is hard to do man, how do you even be inaccurate without an offset?
Also if you're capable of doing a song with 1 miss, you can probably do it again without the miss since more than likely it was a silly miss that you can correct, so who cares?
Also if you're capable of doing a song with 1 miss, you can probably do it again without the miss since more than likely it was a silly miss that you can correct, so who cares?
Can you explain what you mean by "without using an offset"?Illkryn wrote:
If somebody can FC a song with nearly all 50's and 100's without using an offset, they deserve their incoming C rank more than those chumps getting 1 miss and an A rank. That shit is hard to do man, how do you even be inaccurate without an offset?
An offset makes it you so you have to click earlier/later than normal, normally people tweak this because of hardware delays. If you tweaked it a lot you would be getting 100's/50's from playing a song accurately because it registers the clicks at a different time than when you are inputting them.yoyomster wrote:
Can you explain what you mean by "without using an offset"?Illkryn wrote:
If somebody can FC a song with nearly all 50's and 100's without using an offset, they deserve their incoming C rank more than those chumps getting 1 miss and an A rank. That shit is hard to do man, how do you even be inaccurate without an offset?
I see. So playing without one would just be the same as using an offset of 0ms. Thanks.Rewben2 wrote:
An offset makes it you so you have to click earlier/later than normal, normally people tweak this because of hardware delays. If you tweaked it a lot you would be getting 100's/50's from playing a song accurately because it registers the clicks at a different time than when you are inputting them.
Accuracy is definitely important, and everyone gets those 99.XX%'s with a half-assed combo (Most people like to put it tin their "HALL OF SHAME" or whatever name they prefer), but the combo is just a part of the game. If you really can't take it, then you should go make your own and see how many people complain about the rules of YOUR game. Everyone experiences combo breaks, you just have to deal with it somehow, whether that is through grinding or w/e. If you hate grinding (like me) just play through all your maps and hope you'll get a combo on one of them someday. If your accuracy really is 99.5% on something, it'll happen eventually. I usually play through (the whole song) maps once or twice and if it doesn't come it doesn't, w/e.
Maintaining combo, on the other hand, is a different skill. One can consider it even harder than getting high accuracy, because it requires flexibility. Any high-ranked player can press buttons with their left hand pretty much mechanically, the difficult part about osu is the right, or aiming hand (opposite for peppy and lefties
) (Yes I know streams take a ton of grinding) This is the more "random" factor, as fast jumps almost always have a luck factor. I'll exemplify my point with OWC 2013, in which I'm sure everyone sees how Rucker performs. (relatively) Low accuracy, with (almost always) FC, carrying the matches where SW drops combo. Sure SW is arguably the better player, with higher accuracy, but consistency is also important in the game. The ability to purposefully hit circles earlier/later in order to guarantee every hit in a beatmap is much more difficult than pressing your left hand with little inconsistency (game-relative).
Getting 100's and 50's accidentally is just natural error I'm not saying these are skillful. Purposefully doing so is what takes skill, and is highly rewarded in this game. One may have to sacrifice more notes (perhaps say 3x 100's) in order to guarantee a difficult part, while skipping the note completely could just easily guarantee 2x300 and 1x0. Examples are everywhere, take any fast screen-wide zigzag jump pattern. Getting 100's on all of them is much harder than skipping half of them, yet you get 30% for hitting and 50% for skipping.
In any case, I agree with GoldenWolf's post. Accuracy is important AFTER you learn to combo your stuff. Perhaps you could play some more Multiplayer?
Maintaining combo, on the other hand, is a different skill. One can consider it even harder than getting high accuracy, because it requires flexibility. Any high-ranked player can press buttons with their left hand pretty much mechanically, the difficult part about osu is the right, or aiming hand (opposite for peppy and lefties
) (Yes I know streams take a ton of grinding) This is the more "random" factor, as fast jumps almost always have a luck factor. I'll exemplify my point with OWC 2013, in which I'm sure everyone sees how Rucker performs. (relatively) Low accuracy, with (almost always) FC, carrying the matches where SW drops combo. Sure SW is arguably the better player, with higher accuracy, but consistency is also important in the game. The ability to purposefully hit circles earlier/later in order to guarantee every hit in a beatmap is much more difficult than pressing your left hand with little inconsistency (game-relative).Getting 100's and 50's accidentally is just natural error I'm not saying these are skillful. Purposefully doing so is what takes skill, and is highly rewarded in this game. One may have to sacrifice more notes (perhaps say 3x 100's) in order to guarantee a difficult part, while skipping the note completely could just easily guarantee 2x300 and 1x0. Examples are everywhere, take any fast screen-wide zigzag jump pattern. Getting 100's on all of them is much harder than skipping half of them, yet you get 30% for hitting and 50% for skipping.
In any case, I agree with GoldenWolf's post. Accuracy is important AFTER you learn to combo your stuff. Perhaps you could play some more Multiplayer?
>this game is about MUSIC, and real musicians don't calculate combos at all.Pelaaja_X wrote:
Remember: this game is about MUSIC, and real musicians don't calculate combos at all.
>this game is about MUSIC
>this game
it's a game, deal with it or move on. It's not a life decision.
disregard life, acquire osu!
girls dig guys that know how to chase a dot
Topic Starter
I am still not properly understanding this "aim" point of yours. Aim is of course important part of the game, butGoldenWolf wrote:
@Pelaaja_X : You didn't understand what this game is about.
It's about clicking circles on the screen, and you have to move a cursor in order to reach the circles => Aim-based game. Combo is important because the core of the game is the aim, not accuracy.
AIM HAS VERY LITTLE TO DO WITH COMBOS.
Aim is about putting your cursor on the correct place. You won't get any points if you don't do that of course. Aim + timing = success, but why does there even have to be any combos? It would be good enough (and in my opinion better) without them.
I just mean that aim would be a major part of the game even without this crazy scoring system.
Topic Starter
So what? Combos are overrated.bewaredrev wrote:
combo breaker
Did you just type that? You can't be serious.Pelaaja_X wrote:
AIM HAS VERY LITTLE TO DO WITH COMBOS.
Any half-decent player at this game is missing mostly due to aim. If a map is a bit complicated, at most he'll lose some accuracy, not his combo, unless weird sliders are involved. This is not considering speed above the player's limit though.
The angle you are approaching this from is from other rhythm games. It's not the same. I did mention pattern complexity and the response required in those threads I linked. Accuracy is only as hard as it is, in osu!, due to overlapping patterns and aiming for jump patterns, split processing, otherwise it's on the retarded level compared to other rhythm games.
... what.Pelaaja_X wrote:
AIM HAS VERY LITTLE TO DO WITH COMBOS.
GoldenWolf wrote:
... what.Pelaaja_X wrote:
AIM HAS VERY LITTLE TO DO WITH COMBOS.
Soarezi wrote:
disregard grils acquire rankz
Pelaaja_X wrote:
AIM HAS VERY LITTLE TO DO WITH COMBOS.
smh
GoldenWolf wrote:
... what.Pelaaja_X wrote:
AIM HAS VERY LITTLE TO DO WITH COMBOS.
Hi, I justed wanted to ask how osu! works? If I lose my 10000 combo I get lower points? That makes no sense!
This formula can't be right (Imagine this is twitch) Kappa.
This formula can't be right (Imagine this is twitch) Kappa.
Soarezi
Soarezi wrote:
What the fuck? the stupidity is beyond imaginationVenumidas wrote:
Hi, I justed wanted to ask how osu! works? If I lose my 10000 combo I get lower points? That makes no sense!
This formula can't be right (Imagine this is twitch) Kappa.
Layne wrote:
best post 2014Pelaaja_X wrote:
AIM HAS VERY LITTLE TO DO WITH COMBOS.
Layne wrote:
best post 2014Pelaaja_X wrote:
AIM HAS VERY LITTLE TO DO WITH COMBOS.
Layne wrote:
best post 2014Pelaaja_X wrote:
AIM HAS VERY LITTLE TO DO WITH COMBOS.
Layne wrote:
best post 2014Pelaaja_X wrote:
AIM HAS VERY LITTLE TO DO WITH COMBOS.
The combos are how the game is played. You are rewarded for being accurate overall. The combos are your reward for being accurate. The game won't change from this.
I think this thread is completely stupid now lol ~ the way the game is now is fine, and is basically just people repeating that.
yeah we need to talk more about how combos are not related to aim whatsoever, that's a pretty big revelationMyke B wrote:
I think this thread is completely stupid now lol ~ the way the game is now is fine, and is basically just people repeating that.