A few words of so-called combos

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MandyJS

iWhorse wrote:

or play mania instead
That's what I did... the whole needing full combos thing was very frustrating for me, so when I discovered you can still do well in mania without having to worry about fc's, I fell in love with mania mode and never looked back :D

Doesn't mean that I don't still try to fc the mania maps, but I don't stress over missing a note in the middle because my keyboard happened to stick or I was daydreaming or whatever the case may be :P
casmith789
Looks like ppv2 won't depend so much on combo - WubWoofWolf has Remote Control HD + DT with 5 misses as his top ppv2 performance (if it doesn't change), and I have an insane with 1 miss early enough to knock me out of top 2000 score in my top 10 list.
JAKACHAN
With the state of the game in terms of ranked maps anyway an accuracy based system wouldn't work as well as many think. It's way to easy to 100% most of the maps ranked nowadays to the point where rank lists are littered with 100%'s and it just becomes a spin war.

It is true that ppv2 is looking to change it a bit as some ranks that aren't full combo but are still ridiculous scores by players are being counted as their best scores (see jesus1412's C ranking best performance.)
Topic Starter
Pelaaja_X

GoldenWolf wrote:

osu! is about FCing, not getting high accuracy. High acc is a bonus when you FC, else it's useless
Are you kidding me? I can't believe someone really thinks like that.

It's like if you said that life isn't about making good decisions but just about seeing how long can you live without making a mistake.

I think everyone agrees that rythm is the point of this game. And it practically means playing those 300's. The combos, ugh how I hate them, are just making this game a panic survival.

Remember: this game is about MUSIC, and real musicians don't calculate combos at all.

Needless to say, I totally disagree with GoldenWolf
Rewben2

Pelaaja_X wrote:

GoldenWolf wrote:

osu! is about FCing, not getting high accuracy. High acc is a bonus when you FC, else it's useless
Are you kidding me? I can't believe someone really thinks like that.

It's like if you said that life isn't about making good decisions but just about seeing how long can you live without making a mistake.

I think everyone agrees that rythm is the point of this game. And it practically means playing those 300's. The combos, ugh how I hate them, are just making this game a panic survival.

Remember: this game is about MUSIC, and real musicians don't calculate combos at all.

Needless to say, I totally disagree with GoldenWolf
Except the ranking system is actually about combo - You can get 50's on every single note but fc and beat someone who got 90%+ with misses, because its so aim dependant. Referring to other rhythm games or actual musicians is dumb because osu! is quite different to a lot of other games in the scoring aspect. Your "real musician" analogy doesn't apply at all... There's no such thing as "combo" in music or 300's/100's. In real music (at least if you were playing an instrument) it would actually be about playing all the correct notes in time/in tune. You can't just skip notes randomly.

The fact you disagree with Goldenwolf doesn't make much sense - In the current state osu! is combo reliant. That is not opinion, it's factual that the current scoring system is combo reliant. If you believe that the system should be changed, this in no way related to Golden's statement about how the current system functions.
Almost

Pelaaja_X wrote:

GoldenWolf wrote:

osu! is about FCing, not getting high accuracy. High acc is a bonus when you FC, else it's useless
Are you kidding me? I can't believe someone really thinks like that.

It's like if you said that life isn't about making good decisions but just about seeing how long can you live without making a mistake.

I think everyone agrees that rythm is the point of this game. And it practically means playing those 300's. The combos, ugh how I hate them, are just making this game a panic survival.

Remember: this game is about MUSIC, and real musicians don't calculate combos at all.

Needless to say, I totally disagree with GoldenWolf
This isn't just a rhythm game but one that involves aiming as another mechanic. I agree that rhythm is 1 point of the game but the game was designed to have aiming as the main mechanic. If you don't like the way the game is played then don't play it, simple as that. You're being too close minded on what a game really is as well. A game can be whatever the fuck the creator wants it to be, not something that has to fit some made-up rule. Also, real musicians play the music while we are hitting buttons to the music, there is a difference.
JappyBabes

Rewben2 wrote:

Except the ranking system is actually about combo - You can get 50's on every single note but fc and beat someone who got 90%+ with misses, because its so aim dependant.
Except that doesn't happen. Please keep your points at least realistic.
Rewben2

JappyBabes wrote:

Rewben2 wrote:

Except the ranking system is actually about combo - You can get 50's on every single note but fc and beat someone who got 90%+ with misses, because its so aim dependant.
Except that doesn't happen. Please keep your points at least realistic.
I know, I was just exaggerating the importance of combo. Although it was definitely unrealistic.
Topic Starter
Pelaaja_X

Rewben2 wrote:

Pelaaja_X wrote:

(...) Remember: this game is about MUSIC, and real musicians don't calculate combos at all. (...)
(...) Your "real musician" analogy doesn't apply at all... There's no such thing as "combo" in music or 300's/100's. In real music (at least if you were playing an instrument) it would actually be about playing all the correct notes in time/in tune. You can't just skip notes randomly. (...)
Of course I know osu! is not about real music, that was not I meant.

You said that one can't skip notes randomly while playing an instrument. Well, of course not on purpose. But I wouldn't say that if you miss a note while playing instrument, it would spoil the whole song; mostly no one even hears it. Everybody makes mistakes, even the best musicians. Osu! instead is like if it was made by those perfectionists who always start over after one...

My reasoning skills aren't the best, but you're still getting my point, aren't you?
Gretsch
You could always put a cap on max combo like at 300 notes or something so that the multiplier didn't get out of hand to balloon scores. But for me I like the combo system because of the thrill you get toward the middle to end of a song when you know you can't miss.
YukinoDesuDesu
if you can't keep combo, play more
Rewben2

Pelaaja_X wrote:

Rewben2 wrote:

(...) Your "real musician" analogy doesn't apply at all... There's no such thing as "combo" in music or 300's/100's. In real music (at least if you were playing an instrument) it would actually be about playing all the correct notes in time/in tune. You can't just skip notes randomly. (...)
Of course I know osu! is not about real music, that was not I meant.

You said that one can't skip notes randomly while playing an instrument. Well, of course not on purpose. But I wouldn't say that if you miss a note while playing instrument, it would spoil the whole song; mostly no one even hears it. Everybody makes mistakes, even the best musicians. Osu! instead is like if it was made by those perfectionists who always start over after one...

My reasoning skills aren't the best, but you're still getting my point, aren't you?
If music is too difficult for you to play that you are missing notes, you shouldn't be playing it. For stringed instruments such as violin, if you miss a note your bow will end up going in the opposite direction of other people you are playing with (if you go up-down-up-down and suddenly miss one, you'll end up being on a different stroke than the other people you're playing with. This is extremely noticeable) although you can cover this up by going in the same direction twice. Just an example of where missing a note isn't as simple as just "Oh damn I missed one, let's continue" like you could on a piano.

I would say the "best musicians" make far less mistakes in terms of missing/skipping notes than the top osu! players make in terms of missing beats. Most people don't fc a song every single play (unless you are playing songs well below your skill level) or even majority of plays, most plays are spent retrying songs.

If you want to talk about people who retry songs over and over for the fc, then the musician equivalent would be recording yourself playing a song for something. People would definitely keep retrying that until they get the song right.
Soulg
osu! is not a musical instrument, you are using the music made by other people as an aid for your gameplay, not making music with your gameplay.
Weed
combo breaker
GoldenWolf

bewaredrev wrote:

combo breaker
congrats for making the most useless post in this thread



@Pelaaja_X : You didn't understand what this game is about.
It's about clicking circles on the screen, and you have to move a cursor in order to reach the circles => Aim-based game. Combo is important because the core of the game is the aim, not accuracy.
S o h
It's... pretty dumb to discuss if aim or accuracy is more "important" or more of a "core" of the gameplay...
The amount of skill required for either one is completely different by each map.

I do believe combo multiplier is pretty broken at its current state. Like it was mentioned earlier, a run with ONE miss, can have completely different scores depending on which point of the song the combo was broken. If it was the first note or the last note, it would be the equivalent of getting a score with one less note. However, if you miss in the middle of the song, your score suffers a lot. Accuracy also starts to matter a lot more later in the song, because a 100 done in the beginning of the song with a small combo count has a completely different score worth than a 100 done near the end of the song, when the combo is a lot higher.

You really can't defend this flaw.

Thankfully, ppv2 doesn't take score or rank into count at all anymore. A tiny combo break is nearly un-punishable.
nrl
The system is what the system is. Rather than worrying about how the system reacts under current tournament conditions, why don't we change tournament conditions to better represent the players' performance under the given system?

Pelaaja_X wrote:

Remember: this game is about MUSIC, and real musicians don't calculate combos at all.
Objectively false. Music is about expression, games are about massaging a score system.
Illkryn
If somebody can FC a song with nearly all 50's and 100's without using an offset, they deserve their incoming C rank more than those chumps getting 1 miss and an A rank. That shit is hard to do man, how do you even be inaccurate without an offset?

Also if you're capable of doing a song with 1 miss, you can probably do it again without the miss since more than likely it was a silly miss that you can correct, so who cares?
yoyomster

Illkryn wrote:

If somebody can FC a song with nearly all 50's and 100's without using an offset, they deserve their incoming C rank more than those chumps getting 1 miss and an A rank. That shit is hard to do man, how do you even be inaccurate without an offset?
Can you explain what you mean by "without using an offset"?
Rewben2

yoyomster wrote:

Illkryn wrote:

If somebody can FC a song with nearly all 50's and 100's without using an offset, they deserve their incoming C rank more than those chumps getting 1 miss and an A rank. That shit is hard to do man, how do you even be inaccurate without an offset?
Can you explain what you mean by "without using an offset"?
An offset makes it you so you have to click earlier/later than normal, normally people tweak this because of hardware delays. If you tweaked it a lot you would be getting 100's/50's from playing a song accurately because it registers the clicks at a different time than when you are inputting them.
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