I'm a relatively new player, I started back in april but never took the game seriously clocking 400 plays a month up until this august where I did 4k plays. I'm an SS farmer because I like to have 100% on a map a play(prolly ocd idk) back when I can only play 2* maps I wouldn't stop until I get SS. When I play a map and I drop 100 I would immediately restart, I would not even attempt a map if I know I can't SS it or even FC. Now that I play 3* maps it's harder to SS. I feel like I am improving slower due to me not playing more maps because I'm forcing SS. Thoughts? Thank you for being patient and reading my whole spiel.
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Forcing SS on every map good or bad for improvement?
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If you only play what you can get an SS on, your consistency in your SR range will get better, but it will take a very long time for that range to go up. It's not bad to go for SS on maps, but it's better for improvement to temporarily accept an S or an A sometimes and come back to it later. I've had periods of very slow improvement from focusing too much on S rank farming, and that's not even going for 100%. You've just got to balance your love of SS and your want to improve somehow uwu
The one big thing you have to accept if you want to be an SS farmer is that your progress will be slower. Significantly more than others who aren't going for SS's only. Because you need to have 100%, your average SR has to be lower to compensate or else you're going to be stuck retrying thousands of times on maps that you could cheese a FC on but have little to no hope of SS-ing at your current skill. For instance, I can likely play most 5* maps to a decent degree, and could FC most low 5* maps, but my SS comfort is likely closer to the low-4* range (probably...4.1-4.4*, if I had to guess).-rayyy wrote:
I'm a relatively new player, I started back in april but never took the game seriously clocking 400 plays a month up until this august where I did 4k plays. I'm an SS farmer because I like to have 100% on a map a play(prolly ocd idk) back when I can only play 2* maps I wouldn't stop until I get SS. When I play a map and I drop 100 I would immediately restart, I would not even attempt a map if I know I can't SS it or even FC. Now that I play 3* maps it's harder to SS. I feel like I am improving slower due to me not playing more maps because I'm forcing SS. Thoughts? Thank you for being patient and reading my whole spiel.
Right now, it looks like your SS comfort is probably about mid-high 2* and a smidgen of low 3*. I would imagine you could play mid-3*'s to some degree but probably only to 90-95% and not always an FC. My suggestion would be to stop using HRHDDT for a time and play with just NM at that 2.5-2.9* range. I think you'll have an easier time of it when you aren't fighting the added difficulty those mods provide.
The small upside to playing like this is that while your progress is slow, you are more often than not going to consistently be a better player than others at your rank because you aren't just accepting a low 90% FC or 1-miss and moving on. It may not be super-obvious at my level, but at least anecdotally in my case I know multiple 5-digits have stated I would likely be a killer on 5* maps if I just played for the sake of playing (or rather, only went for FCs instead of SS's).
If nothing else, I wish you luck, fellow SS hunter. Please try not to burn yourself out going for them en-masse.
in addition to the comments above, play ctb if you want to SS everything while having quick improvements.
We ain't in the CTB forum so it doesn't count_Kancho_ wrote:
in addition to the comments above, play ctb if you want to SS everything while having quick improvements.
Topic Starter
Thanks for the feedback! While it hurts to leave a map at A or S I think I would just SS it on a later time, and not force it as much, even if there's no pp to be gained. For next month I'll only play no mod but high SR and focus on that. While I do love SS farming, I also want to improve <3
That's likely for the best. I, personally didn't (and kinda still don't) care that much about how fast I improve compared to others, so the majority of 2021 that it took for me to come back to the game (Feb) to my first 100pp play and 1st 4* play (Nov.) didn't feel "slow" to me while I was basically saying SS or nothing during that time. That's not to say I wasn't improving, obviously, but if you're more conscious of it than I was this is probably a better approach.-rayyy wrote:
Thanks for the feedback! While it hurts to leave a map at A or S I think I would just SS it on a later time, and not force it as much, even if there's no pp to be gained. For next month I'll only play no mod but high SR and focus on that. While I do love SS farming, I also want to improve <3
You can always work to improve now and then come back to SS all the easier maps later.
jaystar11
If you're masochist perfectionist and willing to have that delayed pp gratitude, go ahead! Otherwise, FC is sufficient as a benchmark to your particular skillset mastery
playing maps you can get 90~% on is probably a better way to improve than random high sr maps you can barely play or maps you can SS
im as a not high good player but, for my improvement, i played maps i get 90% or less, and try to get more higher acc
Don't play for accuracy, play for improvement instead
Topic Starter
this tbhAnaxii wrote:
Don't play for accuracy, play for improvement instead
Don't play for one or the other, play for both.Anaxii wrote:
Don't play for accuracy, play for improvement instead
It depends on how you define "improvement"
If improvement is pp then no, SS plays are not better for pp.
If improvement is getting more SS plays then yes, aiming for SS plays only will help with that.
If improvement is pp then no, SS plays are not better for pp.
If improvement is getting more SS plays then yes, aiming for SS plays only will help with that.
Play for 99%+ acc, going for SS if not worth it if you need a million retries to get it when you're already very consistent. If you think you can get it in a handful of retries, go for it, but limit your numbers of attempts.
As long as maps have OD5 and below, going for SS is reasonable but above it starts to flip.
Generally, any map at OD7 and below is still quite SSable for skilled players. But once you reach difficulties where many maps are OD8 or even higher, it will just waste insane amounts of time, simply because baseline accuracy is so difficult already. Humans aren't machines, having a slip of concentration or a brief fingerlock and getting a 100 somewhere in the map doesn't make you a worse player than if you grinded for SS.
As long as maps have OD5 and below, going for SS is reasonable but above it starts to flip.
Generally, any map at OD7 and below is still quite SSable for skilled players. But once you reach difficulties where many maps are OD8 or even higher, it will just waste insane amounts of time, simply because baseline accuracy is so difficult already. Humans aren't machines, having a slip of concentration or a brief fingerlock and getting a 100 somewhere in the map doesn't make you a worse player than if you grinded for SS.
Why you gotta invalidate me like that, bro?Endaris wrote:
Play for 99%+ acc, going for SS if not worth it if you need a million retries to get it when you're already very consistent. If you think you can get it in a handful of retries, go for it, but limit your numbers of attempts.
As long as maps have OD5 and below, going for SS is reasonable but above it starts to flip.
Generally, any map at OD7 and below is still quite SSable for skilled players. But once you reach difficulties where many maps are OD8 or even higher, it will just waste insane amounts of time, simply because baseline accuracy is so difficult already. Humans aren't machines, having a slip of concentration or a brief fingerlock and getting a 100 somewhere in the map doesn't make you a worse player than if you grinded for SS.
(also, considering I can read AR9 just fine, I hope you're saying that because it's unlikely he can read higher than AR7 right now as opposed to a hard and fast impossibility.)
Not invalidating you, it's fine to play like that - just not optimal for improvement ;PVoidedosu wrote:
Why you gotta invalidate me like that, bro?Endaris wrote:
Play for 99%+ acc, going for SS if not worth it if you need a million retries to get it when you're already very consistent. If you think you can get it in a handful of retries, go for it, but limit your numbers of attempts.
As long as maps have OD5 and below, going for SS is reasonable but above it starts to flip.
Generally, any map at OD7 and below is still quite SSable for skilled players. But once you reach difficulties where many maps are OD8 or even higher, it will just waste insane amounts of time, simply because baseline accuracy is so difficult already. Humans aren't machines, having a slip of concentration or a brief fingerlock and getting a 100 somewhere in the map doesn't make you a worse player than if you grinded for SS.
(also, considering I can read AR9 just fine, I hope you're saying that because it's unlikely he can read higher than AR7 right now as opposed to a hard and fast impossibility.)
Once upon a time, some guy made data analysis across players through a huge range and it more or less confirmed that trying for more than 99% acc on average is not worth it for your pp against time progression.
Also, note I'm saying OD, not AR. AR isn't really a factor how hard something is to acc. OD definitely is. I have 3 SS ranks with OD8 in my osu!std top plays. I have a TON of OD8 plays that are more or less infinitely close to SS but don't make it. Even on marathons. One of my pinned plays is a 4.2* HD FC on a 140bpm map with 474 circles. OD8. Because it was so fucking insane to hold perfect acc on that. I have many many more OD7 SS plays that aren't in my top plays because the acc pp you gain from OD7 SS is pathetic in comparison. I'm a more acc oriented player compared to the average (and any SS player will be too). At some point you'll just bang your head against the OD8+ wall extremely hard. It's not impossible, people walked that path. But there are insane amounts of offline practice behind that and it's most certainly not the fastest way to improve.
/edit: added link to data analysis thread; some of the images in the OP have expired on imgur but they can be found in the last post again I think
I guess I'm just weird then because I honestly don't even find OD8 to be that much of a problem. OD10? Absolutely (though I also tend to find that it's been more an AR10 issue I need to master than OD10 first). OD9? Eh, kinda. OD8 or less? I can do that pretty easily, and OD7 or less is a cakewalk. The only time OD7 or 8 is a problem is if it's paired with AR9.8/10 (aka low HR 3* maps), but again that's a reading issue not an acc. issue.
Although, I do agree that more than 99% is pointless if you want more pp. 97-98%'s usually really good, and 95%+ is good enough.
Although, I do agree that more than 99% is pointless if you want more pp. 97-98%'s usually really good, and 95%+ is good enough.
This video explain it well-rayyy wrote:
this tbhAnaxii wrote:
Don't play for accuracy, play for improvement instead
Go directly at
4:19That's because you're on the extreme end of acc farming and you don't actually SS difficult maps.Voidedosu wrote:
I guess I'm just weird then because I honestly don't even find OD8 to be that much of a problem. OD10? Absolutely (though I also tend to find that it's been more an AR10 issue I need to master than OD10 first). OD9? Eh, kinda. OD8 or less? I can do that pretty easily, and OD7 or less is a cakewalk. The only time OD7 or 8 is a problem is if it's paired with AR9.8/10 (aka low HR 3* maps), but again that's a reading issue not an acc. issue.
Although, I do agree that more than 99% is pointless if you want more pp. 97-98%'s usually really good, and 95%+ is good enough.
A 5* map of the same length as a 3* map will usually have at least twice the number of circles aka more than twice the opportunities to slip up. They will also almost always be more complex for tapping; 1/4 patterns and especially even ones (and 1/3 or 1/6) are much harder to hit cleanly every single time than simple singles.
Even OD7 can suddenly be challenging again. Give these ones a try for nomod SS:
beatmapsets/131557#osu/373792
beatmapsets/13019#osu/48416
beatmapsets/722634#osu/1623299
beatmapsets/223092#osu/521280
beatmapsets/800638#osu/1680864
All of these have MANY circles and rhythms that are not easy to hit.
What is the value of hitting the 68 circles on beatmapsets/727392#osu/1535708 with HR perfectly in comparison? In my opinion it's 10 times easier than SSing the easiest of the maps above but the acc pp system doesn't reward complexity. It's a different kind of playing the game but imo seeking out the challenge on maps that are actually very difficult to acc is more fun and more challenging than cherrypicking maps that are very easy to acc by their design and have a huge payout because they're high OD for their complexity.
As mentioned, playing for SS is fine if that's fun for you, but don't say OD8 is easy to SS when you're merely picking the lowest hanging fruit for anything that is high OD.
I can't actually try right now because it's 4AM, but:Endaris wrote:
That's because you're on the extreme end of acc farming and you don't actually SS difficult maps.Voidedosu wrote:
I guess I'm just weird then because I honestly don't even find OD8 to be that much of a problem. OD10? Absolutely (though I also tend to find that it's been more an AR10 issue I need to master than OD10 first). OD9? Eh, kinda. OD8 or less? I can do that pretty easily, and OD7 or less is a cakewalk. The only time OD7 or 8 is a problem is if it's paired with AR9.8/10 (aka low HR 3* maps), but again that's a reading issue not an acc. issue.
Although, I do agree that more than 99% is pointless if you want more pp. 97-98%'s usually really good, and 95%+ is good enough.
A 5* map of the same length as a 3* map will usually have at least twice the number of circles aka more than twice the opportunities to slip up. They will also almost always be more complex for tapping; 1/4 patterns and especially even ones (and 1/3 or 1/6) are much harder to hit cleanly every single time than simple singles.
Even OD7 can suddenly be challenging again. Give these ones a try for nomod SS:
beatmapsets/131557#osu/373792
beatmapsets/13019#osu/48416
beatmapsets/722634#osu/1623299
beatmapsets/223092#osu/521280
beatmapsets/800638#osu/1680864
All of these have MANY circles and rhythms that are not easy to hit.
What is the value of hitting the 68 circles on beatmapsets/727392#osu/1535708 with HR perfectly in comparison? In my opinion it's 10 times easier than SSing the easiest of the maps above but the acc pp system doesn't reward complexity. It's a different kind of playing the game but imo seeking out the challenge on maps that are actually very difficult to acc is more fun and more challenging than cherrypicking maps that are very easy to acc by their design and have a huge payout because they're high OD for their complexity.
As mentioned, playing for SS is fine if that's fun for you, but don't say OD8 is easy to SS when you're merely picking the lowest hanging fruit for anything that is high OD.
#1 is easy enough
#2 I don't have on hand right now. I'll take a look later but I won't get an SS yet because it's over 145pp.
#3 is the only one that' remotely difficult, though that has nothing to do with OD imo
#4 is the same as #2
#5 is also fairly easy to me but I won't get an SS since the website side is over 5* (and it's probly over 145pp? I didn't look but it probly is)
Look, I'll concede that I haven't played the hardest shit in the world, and I know 5* stuff is harder than 3*,but in all seriousness, what you've shown me still is not that hard to acc. Some of the patterns are tough (especially pencilina, and that is one of my weakest areas as a player), yes, but at OD8? That's still not hard to acc for me. There are other things I'm doing at the moment so I likely won't get to SS-ing them in the immediate future, but I'm just saying.
OD10 (and to a somewhat lesser extent OD9, I suppose) is still a completely different beast to OD8, and I'm not denying getting acc. at that level is hard. Even basic 30-second shit is easy as hell to mis-step juuuust slightly even if I wasn't fighting AR10 (that's why I intentionally picked something that short for my mod combos). But it's not OD8, and I can do OD8. Simple as that. The difficulty is in the patterns you have to learn, not how precisely you have to hit them.
It's not that hard to acc, yes, but it's hard to SS still.
Solely on account that these maps are both more circle dense and longer than a TV size OD8 4* map.
And also due to most being on the lower end of bpm, except for pencilina which is just kind of weird and has a couple of sliders where it's easy to drop an end.
On low bpm, beat frequency is (obviously) lower and with that increase in ms between beats, the natural margin of error for even normal notes becomes bigger for almost every player I know. Getting low UR on low bpm is quite a bit more difficult than on a higher bpm map. And as a result they're also harder to SS on average if OD is the same between high and low bpm.
Honestly, I'm gonna stalk your profile and look for that Evergreen + Anima Mundi SS cause I think for an OD7 map it's not easy to SS at all. Certainly possible but for an OD7 of that star rating one of the most difficult I guess.
Certainly you're correct that OD10 is an entirely different beast and just makes SS a lot harder by default. But the thing about low bpm and dense patterns being more difficult remains true on them. I would still hold onto the fact that OD8 is when the difficulty of perfect acc starts to flip and it starts to stop being feasible to SS everything.
Solely on account that these maps are both more circle dense and longer than a TV size OD8 4* map.
And also due to most being on the lower end of bpm, except for pencilina which is just kind of weird and has a couple of sliders where it's easy to drop an end.
On low bpm, beat frequency is (obviously) lower and with that increase in ms between beats, the natural margin of error for even normal notes becomes bigger for almost every player I know. Getting low UR on low bpm is quite a bit more difficult than on a higher bpm map. And as a result they're also harder to SS on average if OD is the same between high and low bpm.
Honestly, I'm gonna stalk your profile and look for that Evergreen + Anima Mundi SS cause I think for an OD7 map it's not easy to SS at all. Certainly possible but for an OD7 of that star rating one of the most difficult I guess.
Certainly you're correct that OD10 is an entirely different beast and just makes SS a lot harder by default. But the thing about low bpm and dense patterns being more difficult remains true on them. I would still hold onto the fact that OD8 is when the difficulty of perfect acc starts to flip and it starts to stop being feasible to SS everything.
Jeez louis can you make TL;DR guys, please? 
grades are boring. UR is the shit. <90 gang where u at?
Yeah its pretty hard to SS OD10. I usually only get SS on accident, I have 370 SS plays and only one of them is an OD10 map (its a 1:28 long map). However I do think its possible to consistently SS OD10, even with hard rhythms. It would take an insane amount of practice though.Endaris wrote:
It's not that hard to acc, yes, but it's hard to SS still.
Solely on account that these maps are both more circle dense and longer than a TV size OD8 4* map.
And also due to most being on the lower end of bpm, except for pencilina which is just kind of weird and has a couple of sliders where it's easy to drop an end.
On low bpm, beat frequency is (obviously) lower and with that increase in ms between beats, the natural margin of error for even normal notes becomes bigger for almost every player I know. Getting low UR on low bpm is quite a bit more difficult than on a higher bpm map. And as a result they're also harder to SS on average if OD is the same between high and low bpm.
Honestly, I'm gonna stalk your profile and look for that Evergreen + Anima Mundi SS cause I think for an OD7 map it's not easy to SS at all. Certainly possible but for an OD7 of that star rating one of the most difficult I guess.
Certainly you're correct that OD10 is an entirely different beast and just makes SS a lot harder by default. But the thing about low bpm and dense patterns being more difficult remains true on them. I would still hold onto the fact that OD8 is when the difficulty of perfect acc starts to flip and it starts to stop being feasible to SS everything.
Read moreAnaxii wrote:
Jeez louis can you make TL;DR guys, please?
grades are boring. UR are not better. >120 gang where u at?ClevelandsMyBro wrote:
grades are boring. UR is the shit. <90 gang where u at?
mans is speaking the truth, god I would love to start grinding OD10 SS's so muchFxjlk wrote:
Yeah its pretty hard to SS OD10. I usually only get SS on accident, I have 370 SS plays and only one of them is an OD10 map (its a 1:28 long map). However I do think its possible to consistently SS OD10, even with hard rhythms. It would take an insane amount of practice though.Endaris wrote:
It's not that hard to acc, yes, but it's hard to SS still.
Solely on account that these maps are both more circle dense and longer than a TV size OD8 4* map.
And also due to most being on the lower end of bpm, except for pencilina which is just kind of weird and has a couple of sliders where it's easy to drop an end.
On low bpm, beat frequency is (obviously) lower and with that increase in ms between beats, the natural margin of error for even normal notes becomes bigger for almost every player I know. Getting low UR on low bpm is quite a bit more difficult than on a higher bpm map. And as a result they're also harder to SS on average if OD is the same between high and low bpm.
Honestly, I'm gonna stalk your profile and look for that Evergreen + Anima Mundi SS cause I think for an OD7 map it's not easy to SS at all. Certainly possible but for an OD7 of that star rating one of the most difficult I guess.
Certainly you're correct that OD10 is an entirely different beast and just makes SS a lot harder by default. But the thing about low bpm and dense patterns being more difficult remains true on them. I would still hold onto the fact that OD8 is when the difficulty of perfect acc starts to flip and it starts to stop being feasible to SS everything.Read moreAnaxii wrote:
Jeez louis can you make TL;DR guys, please?
Bro, I'm sorry but Period. ~ Seishin no Kousoku to Jiyuu o Tsukamu Jouka is not a map I would at all classify as "not that hard to acc" or "not even remotely difficult". It's got 8 NM SS and one hidden SS despite being ranked in 2015. Endaris is right tbh, it's just harder to SS maps with higher complexity even when they have lowish OD. I'd disagree though that SS farming is a walk in the park for 3-4*, there is a lot of variety there as you well know.Voidedosu wrote:
Look, I'll concede that I haven't played the hardest shit in the world, and I know 5* stuff is harder than 3*,but in all seriousness, what you've shown me still is not that hard to acc.
I just said Period was one of the maps I didn't get to look at myself. Let me get there first, jeez.
EDIT: Meh. Still not that hard to acc. Either BASARA or Period. I'd say Period's the 2nd hardest of the bunch behind Pencilina, but it's not some big acc. hurdle. Also not an OD issue, still. Maybe if it was OD9+ then yeah, probably, but not OD8.
EDIT: Meh. Still not that hard to acc. Either BASARA or Period. I'd say Period's the 2nd hardest of the bunch behind Pencilina, but it's not some big acc. hurdle. Also not an OD issue, still. Maybe if it was OD9+ then yeah, probably, but not OD8.
The last diffs of Period are ALL goddamn hard to SSVoidedosu wrote:
I just said Period was one of the maps I didn't get to look at myself. Let me get there first, jeez.
EDIT: Meh. Still not that hard to acc. Either BASARA or Period. I'd say Period's the 2nd hardest of the bunch behind Pencilina, but it's not some big acc. hurdle. Also not an OD issue, still. Maybe if it was OD9+ then yeah, probably, but not OD8.
Honestly, I've seen SS players do crazy things so maybe it is easy for you.
I have a 1 100 score on BASARA myself so I know it's very possible to SS but I am also very aware that for most people at my rank (100k?), getting a BASARA SS is impossible because they simply don't have the skillset for getting accuracy on low bpm, even on an OD as easy as 7. However, BASARA is imo also the least complex map out of all the maps mentioned and mostly difficult for people because it is so slow and many people can't acc slow streams.
It would be cool to see you getting the SS on the Evergreen+Anima Mundi map, since you seem very confident on that one and it's likely the map where you are the least held back by potential aim struggles which would understandably make the SS difficult to get on other maps. I think I had at least a dozen SS plays on this map ruined by misses rather than acc.
But yeah. If you care enough to impress some random guy with a skeleton avatar, go and SS the Evergreen map. I'm not sure if I could, even if I grind it out but maybe I just suck at quads and 1/4 to 1/6 transitions.
I have a 1 100 score on BASARA myself so I know it's very possible to SS but I am also very aware that for most people at my rank (100k?), getting a BASARA SS is impossible because they simply don't have the skillset for getting accuracy on low bpm, even on an OD as easy as 7. However, BASARA is imo also the least complex map out of all the maps mentioned and mostly difficult for people because it is so slow and many people can't acc slow streams.
It would be cool to see you getting the SS on the Evergreen+Anima Mundi map, since you seem very confident on that one and it's likely the map where you are the least held back by potential aim struggles which would understandably make the SS difficult to get on other maps. I think I had at least a dozen SS plays on this map ruined by misses rather than acc.
But yeah. If you care enough to impress some random guy with a skeleton avatar, go and SS the Evergreen map. I'm not sure if I could, even if I grind it out but maybe I just suck at quads and 1/4 to 1/6 transitions.
Ngl it's easy to be a SS player, but it's hard to be a high ranked SS player
Topic Starter
why bro gotta call me out like that? XDAnaxii wrote:
This video explain it well-rayyy wrote:
this tbhAnaxii wrote:
Don't play for accuracy, play for improvement instead
Go directly at4:19
You're a beginner 😃-rayyy wrote:
why bro gotta call me out like that? XDAnaxii wrote:
This video explain it well-rayyy wrote:
this tbhAnaxii wrote:
Don't play for accuracy, play for improvement instead
Go directly at4:19