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Owl City - Embers

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riffy
osu! Alumni
8,060 posts
Joined December 2010
riffy

Minao wrote:

00:37:287 (3) I don't see why this part is unstressed as there is a slider here - the problem is that the stong beat (on the white tick) is unclickable, so, players don't feel like it is emphasized enough
03:21:921 (1) it becomes a very short spinner, maybe too short for a Normal... Maybe I have to delete this spinner and add a very long slider?... the long slider will do great o/
00:37:287 (3) - 00:37:287 (3) - 00:37:287 (3) - this one leaves the beginning of kiai unstressed ... It's the same time 3 times o-o") 00:47:775 - 00:49:726 - 00:51:677 - sorry, didn't notice that the copypaste hadn't worked correctly "."
I guess we've made it more clear and that's should be it. Once you're done with the changes, feel free to call Sakura back for the rebubble!

Good luck with the map! :)
ztrot
osu! Alumni
4,378 posts
Joined February 2008
Topic Starter
ztrot
Changes have been made, not sure if I should have Sakura rebubble as I self popped is that even allowed?
ColdTooth
1,100 posts
Joined June 2012
ColdTooth
it might be, i've seen it happen idk when i last saw it, but i would ask to make sure
Minao
219 posts
Joined November 2013
Minao

-Bakari- wrote:

00:37:287 (3) I don't see why this part is unstressed as there is a slider here - the problem is that the stong beat (on the white tick) is unclickable, so, players don't feel like it is emphasized enough Changed this part
03:21:921 (1) it becomes a very short spinner, maybe too short for a Normal... Maybe I have to delete this spinner and add a very long slider?... the long slider will do great o/Mapped this part with more than a simple long slider
00:37:287 (3) - 00:37:287 (3) - 00:37:287 (3) - this one leaves the beginning of kiai unstressed ... It's the same time 3 times o-o") 00:47:775 - 00:49:726 - 00:51:677 - sorry, didn't notice that the copypaste hadn't worked correctly "."Changed the 3 places

I guess we've made it more clear and that's should be it. Once you're done with the changes, feel free to call Sakura back for the rebubble!

Good luck with the map! :)
Thank you again!!

Diff update
http://puu.sh/dkvIO/b50140d2a2.rar
Sieg
3,981 posts
Joined February 2012
Sieg
So we did a bit of good talk with Minao ingame :)
and the result is fine for me

eddit: rebubbled
Good Luck!
ztrot
osu! Alumni
4,378 posts
Joined February 2008
Topic Starter
ztrot
now it is gonna happen coldtooth!
ColdTooth
1,100 posts
Joined June 2012
ColdTooth

ztrot wrote:

now it is gonna happen coldtooth!
Aw yeah :B1:
Kyonko Hizara
2,855 posts
Joined August 2010
Kyonko Hizara
Finally please
Lust
osu! Alumni
2,667 posts
Joined January 2013
Lust
log
21:09 Lust: heya ztrot
21:09 *Lust is editing [http://osu.ppy.sh/b/352685 Owl City - Embers [Hard]]
21:09 Lust: are you ready for me to go over your map
21:09 ztrot: yeag
21:10 Lust: alright, i highly recommend you change this to OD7, there are certain patterns such as 00:16:555 (4,5,6) - where the spacing is quite large and the rhythm is unclear (players aren't going to expect the circle on the blue tick at first for instance)
21:10 Lust: switching it to OD7 will allow for a bit more leniency when it comes to those particular patterns
21:11 Lust: i dont want you to modify any of them since they are well made
21:12 ztrot: lol I had just changed it to od 8
21:12 ztrot: but yeah tbh I liked it better as od7
21:12 Lust: 03:16:067 (1,2,3) - i know what you are trying to do here in regards with the rhythm, but throughout the majority of the song you followed the vocals (had the circle on the blue tick)
21:13 Lust: this shorter spacing but with different rhythm is a pretty difficult thing to pick up, i had quite a bit of an issue going through a couple of times reading it
21:14 ztrot: it is consistent tho
21:15 ztrot: 01:11:189 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5) -  does the same thing
21:15 ztrot: the one you are pointing out in the latter is the same pattern just change around so it isn't just copy paste
21:16 Lust: the thing is with that pattern the spacing is enlarged so therefore it takes longer to reach the circles making it easier to get the rhythm down
21:17 ztrot: would this be okay for a fix? http://puu.sh/dr2YB/3897d505d3.jpg
21:18 Lust: could you update it so i can have a look? 
21:18 ztrot: sure
21:18 Lust: looks like it would be fine, but i need to make sure
21:19 ztrot: give it a look now
21:19 Lust: much better
21:20 ztrot: I like the change too because it makes a nice pattern
21:20 Lust: 03:22:897 (1,2) - for these two, instead of the normal whistle which kinda sticks out like a sore thumb how about having a drum hitclap on both of the slider heads
21:21 Lust: i think it would fit a lot better, you can lower the volume of them with green lines if you think they are loud
21:21 ztrot: it shouldn't be a normal whistle
21:21 ztrot: I have a custom set on this
21:21 ztrot: do you have hitsounds on overide?
21:22 Lust: ah excuse me
21:22 Lust: i didnt mean normal whistle i meant
21:22 Lust: the whistle thats on there now
21:22 Lust: haha

What we fixed:
  1. Changed OD8 to OD7 to allow some leniency on some rhythmic patterns
  2. Changed a pattern to make the rhythm more noticeable
  3. Added some drum claps to better accent the music

Just some thoughts on the normal

[Minao's Normal]
  1. 00:50:945 (1) - Is the whistle on this slider body intentional? If so I highly recommend you remove it as it does not really fit the music well
  2. 01:24:604 (7) - The movement on this slider feels unnatural in comparison to the rest of the patterns you have set due to that sharp curve, I highly recommend you have the curve go the other way so it flows better
  3. 01:57:775 (1) - Kiai time starting in the middle of a slider? Yea not quite a good idea. There is a strong beat there, please try and use a rhythm similar to the one you had in the beginning of the kiai - it is way more clear and fun in comparison
  4. 02:31:189 (1) - Another weird sounding whistle on the slider body
  5. 03:05:336 (3) - ^
  6. 03:36:555 (2) - ^
Call me back!
Minao
219 posts
Joined November 2013
Minao

Lust wrote:

Just some thoughts on the normal

[Minao's Normal]
  1. 00:50:945 (1) - Is the whistle on this slider body intentional? If so I highly recommend you remove it as it does not really fit the music well Removed
  2. 01:24:604 (7) - The movement on this slider feels unnatural in comparison to the rest of the patterns you have set due to that sharp curve, I highly recommend you have the curve go the other way so it flows better Changed
  3. 01:57:775 (1) - Kiai time starting in the middle of a slider? Yea not quite a good idea. There is a strong beat there, please try and use a rhythm similar to the one you had in the beginning of the kiai - it is way more clear and fun in comparison Changed
  4. 02:31:189 (1) - Another weird sounding whistle on the slider body Fixed
  5. 03:05:336 (3) - ^ Fixed
  6. 03:36:555 (2) - ^ Fixed
Call me back!
Thank you for modding
Diff update
http://puu.sh/ds0L6/1e77600bd9.rar

Please... I hope it's the last time I have to modify it...
ztrot
osu! Alumni
4,378 posts
Joined February 2008
Topic Starter
ztrot
updated, hope to hear from lust soon
Lust
osu! Alumni
2,667 posts
Joined January 2013
Lust
Everything looks good to me, Qualified!
CSLM
1,058 posts
Joined May 2013
CSLM
gratz~
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

ztrot wrote:

updated, hope to hear from lust soon
4 days later...

Lust wrote:

Everything looks good to me, Qualified!
Well guess at least he got back huh?
Grats
HelloSCV
3,490 posts
Joined April 2011
HelloSCV
cooooooooooooool. gratz :D
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
uhh 1.5 star > 2.0 star > 3.5 star
Dat diff spread between Normal and Hard X_X
Kyouren
5,583 posts
Joined October 2012
Kyouren
Gratzz~
Kyonko Hizara
2,855 posts
Joined August 2010
Kyonko Hizara
Finally the map you made for me is ranked :U
Garven
osu! Alumni
5,857 posts
Joined January 2010
Garven
Hey Prof.

You probably already know why I'm here. The difficulty progression from Easy -> Normal -> Hard is really unbalanced. We're focusing mostly on the Normal -> Hard in terms of techniques used. You go from a very slow constant distance-snapped Normal to a very jumpy Hard - especially during the Kiai times. Try to make this transition smoother (or insert a map between, but I think making the Normal more difficult would be the best for the set's overall spread).

Something else I noted while doing the checks was that the hitsounding was incredibly underwhelming during the kiai times. The volume doesn't change at all, nor does the sample set, but the music itself essentially doubles.
p3n
Global Moderator
947 posts
Joined June 2009
p3n
I'll leave that here in case someone missed it.... p/3576827

1.5 -> 2.5 -> 3.5 (E H H) is fine if the difficulty of the used gameplay elements increases appropriately
Minao
219 posts
Joined November 2013
Minao
So... All the changes we made to the Normal to simplify it was pointless? :( I'm not blaming anybody, I'm just disapointed that all the work on it didn't help this beatmap to be ranked...
Ztrot, I'm waiting for your opinion on it to know what i'm supposed to do with this diff now...
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

Minao wrote:

So... All the changes we made to the Normal to simplify it was pointless?
Why did you tone down Normal in the first place? :<
Sieg
3,981 posts
Joined February 2012
Sieg

Sakura wrote:

Minao wrote:

So... All the changes we made to the Normal to simplify it was pointless?
Why did you tone down Normal in the first place? :<
That's not true. On the contrary, we did increase overall rhythm density and reworked just some unpleasant to play overlaps. This normal is top notch. (as normal ofc, not 2.5 SR Hard)
Well, as p3n said~~~
Good luck on requalifying.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Well in either case, you can either make Normal harder or tone down Hard, tho i highly doubt ztrot would want to tone down Hard...
or make a diff in between the 2.
Anyway, sorry for not noticing the diff spread issue before it got qualified :(
ztrot
osu! Alumni
4,378 posts
Joined February 2008
Topic Starter
ztrot

Minao wrote:

So... All the changes we made to the Normal to simplify it was pointless? :( I'm not blaming anybody, I'm just disapointed that all the work on it didn't help this beatmap to be ranked...
Ztrot, I'm waiting for your opinion on it to know what i'm supposed to do with this diff now...
you sit tight buddy your diff is perfect I'll add another to even out the set.
Shohei Ohtani
Shohei Ohtani
oh no!!!
Tari
osu! Alumni
1,671 posts
Joined July 2012
Tari
I was worried about the spread when I first saw this map,

Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get to it in time though.

Good Luck on the re qualification though!
ztrot
osu! Alumni
4,378 posts
Joined February 2008
Topic Starter
ztrot
I've added another diff to even out the problem with the spread... not that I saw issues. Would love for someone to take a look.
Lust
osu! Alumni
2,667 posts
Joined January 2013
Lust
log
14:04 Lust: howdy
14:04 ztrot: hello
14:04 *Lust is editing [http://osu.ppy.sh/b/566515 Owl City - Embers [Medium]]
14:05 Lust: i recommend ar6.5, fits the patterns you set for the majority of the diff as well as sits well in the spread
14:06 ztrot: okay
14:06 ztrot: I can do that
14:06 Lust: 00:19:970 (2,3) - id recommend you space these two out a bit, the rhythm here changes and an anti-jump pattern like the one you have right now could be a bit confusing and hard to read
14:09 ztrot: this enough?
14:09 ztrot: v
14:09 ztrot: http://puu.sh/dMLkZ/1b370b6bb1.jpg
14:13 Lust: ehhh maybe a little more
14:13 Lust: somewhere around 1.1x spaced out
14:14 ztrot: that will make it too simple
14:14 ztrot: this has to be a bit harder to read than normal
14:14 ztrot: or the whole map is moot
14:15 ztrot: but i did something
14:15 ztrot: will show you when i submit I think you will be happy with it
14:17 Lust: 00:35:092 (5,1) - i know what you were trying to do here and I think its pretty cool, but i'd recommend you space the circles out evenly - the rhythm is the same for the most part and i think it would make for a more logical pattern if they were consistent
14:21 Lust: 01:33:872 (1) - remove the NC here and add it to 01:34:604 (4) -, afterwards remove the NC from 01:36:068 (1) - and add it to 01:36:555 (2) -, finally remove the NC from 01:37:775 (1) - and add it to 01:38:507 (4) - 
14:21 Lust: should follow the song nicer
14:22 ztrot: alright
14:22 Lust: update it and i'll have a recheck
14:23 ztrot: I also adjusted a few other things
14:23 ztrot: to make it a tad less repetive
14:23 ztrot: as this is only made to fill requirements
14:23 Lust: could you tell me what they are? they need to be in the log so there arent any undocumented changes
14:24 ztrot: sure
14:24 Lust: kinda sucks but meh its just a formality
14:24 ztrot: 01:41:677 (1,2,3) -  added curves to not be copy paste
14:25 ztrot: 02:05:824 (2,3) -  fixed blanket
14:25 ztrot: 02:25:336 (1,2) -  same song and dance here
14:25 ztrot: fixed blanket
14:26 ztrot: I hope you find my compromises with the spacing to be acceptable
14:26 ztrot: on the  parts you gave concern to
14:26 Lust: updated?
14:26 ztrot: yeah

Lets get this moving again.
ztrot
osu! Alumni
4,378 posts
Joined February 2008
Topic Starter
ztrot
updated and made all adjustments asked of me by lust thanks again for looking at it.
Lust
osu! Alumni
2,667 posts
Joined January 2013
Lust
bubbled x2
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Dunno why you went with "Medium" for your diff name, sounds kinda awkward compared to the others, i think just naming it Normal would've been fine. (or changing Meidum > Hard to Hard > Insane?)
ztrot
osu! Alumni
4,378 posts
Joined February 2008
Topic Starter
ztrot
No
Shohei Ohtani
Shohei Ohtani
I love you to bits and pieces and I feel like a complete douchebag for doing this but I'm going to have to pop this bubble :(.

All diffs:
Firstly, the bottom 2 diffs should have kiai on the 3rd chorus. It's not 100% unrankable per se, but it's really weird to have the last big impact have no kiai while the first do.
Secondly, for the diffs that do, the last kiai should start at 02:52:653 , because that's where it starts in the other diffs.

Medium:
02:03:385 (9) - Missing whistle here
02:15:092 (1) - pls
03:32:287 (1) - I don't think this note works very well. It's on a blue tick on something that is faintly heard. I'm also not sure about how close you want it to the next note. The previous spinner ends super early, so its kind of implying that you plan on having a lot of space in between your spinners.

Normal:
I'd really like you to have claps on 2 and 4 of every measure. Right now it's inconsistent and trying to with the vocals. Which is a 0/10. Hitsounds are meant to provide a basis in which to establish rhythm, especially claps. pls do that ;w;
01:31:067 (3) - *bleh*

Forum PM me when these things are fixed.

sorry about pop ;w;
ztrot
osu! Alumni
4,378 posts
Joined February 2008
Topic Starter
ztrot
applied changes yet again
Shohei Ohtani
Shohei Ohtani
pls fix stuff (or have Minao) in the normal diiff. That's where the majority of the issues that I popped this map exist ;w;.
ztrot
osu! Alumni
4,378 posts
Joined February 2008
Topic Starter
ztrot
it is just hitsounds, and I don't feel they are in a state that should hold back the map, it was his choice.
Minao
219 posts
Joined November 2013
Minao
Diff updated
http://puu.sh/ecGFL/d080401be5.rar
I'm sorry it took so long. I changed 01:31:067 (3) but I have no idea about how to improve the hitsounds. So... to answer to your PM Ztrot, I think it would be really better if you could change it, as I don't know what to do... Sorry to make you work on my diff again...
ztrot
osu! Alumni
4,378 posts
Joined February 2008
Topic Starter
ztrot
adjusted and reworked your whole diffs hitsounds.
Shohei Ohtani
Shohei Ohtani
Hitsounds are improved

Bubble restore yay
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