Konami Sound Team - The Plain and the Sky

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Topic Starter
Ariadim
This beatmap was submitted using in-game submission on miércoles, 02 de abril de 2014 at 15:50:32

Artist: Konami Sound Team
Title: The Plain and the Sky
Source: OST Suikoden Tiekreis
Tags: suikoden tierkreis nintendo game
BPM: 106
Filesize: 3050kb
Play Time: 01:42
Difficulties Available:
  1. Easy (1,39 stars, 94 notes)
  2. Hard (4,44 stars, 188 notes)
  3. Normal (2,56 stars, 128 notes)


Download: Konami Sound Team - The Plain and the Sky
Information: Scores/Beatmap Listing
---------------
Lizbeth
Bueno, te daré algunos consejos para ayudarte a mejorar tu mapa.

1. El diseño de las notas debe ser mas elaborado, está bien ser tu primer mapa, pero no esta al nivel de un mapa rankeado. Lo que te aconsejaría para mejorar este aspecto es utilizar patrones mas pensados con el propósito de que tu mapa se vea mas profesional. Te sugiero que visites el sub-foro de técnicas de mapeo. En este sub foro encontrarás una gran cantidad de patrones divertidos y bien elaborados que han sido utilizados por muchos mappers y que son perfectamente rankeables, por lo cual no rompen ninguna regla. Si usas estos patrones no te veras en problemas de romper ninguna regla.

2.Lee las reglas y recomendaciones, hay una versión en español, así que no hay excusas de no leerlas.

3.Usa la distancia correctamente. La separación de las notas en el mapa debe ser proporcional a la distancia en "tiempo" entre estas.

4.Recuerda siempre seguir el ritmo de la canción, recuerda que es un juego de ritmo, así que nada de colocar objetos donde la canción no tenga ningún sonido.

5.Trata de usar los sliders para sonidos prolongados como los del violín o las voces del cantante, y círculos para los sonidos cortos como los de la batería.

6.Trata de mantener todo impecable. Con esto me refiero a que los objetos no parezcan desordenados, los modders pueden ser bastante exigentes con esto, así que se mas exigente que ellos y estarás bien.

7. Procura que todo entre dificultades esté igual, por ejemplo: tags, hitsounds, colores de los combos, previewpoints, breaks, kiais, etc.

8.Intenta conseguir que personar revisen tu mapa y te den su opinión, o posteen un mod. Una buena manera de conseguir ayuda, es dar ayuda. Si modeas mapas de otras personas, es mas fácil que otros quieran ayudarte, especialmente los creadores de loa mapas que tu modeaste, asimismo conseguirás kudosus y podrás incrementar la prioridad de tu mapa dándole estrellas.

9.Cuando logres 12 puntos de prioridad y que nadie encuentre errores en tu mapa es hora de recurrir a un BAT. Primero revisa si dicho BAT acepta que le pidan mod, una buena manera de hacerlo es revisar su firma en los foros o su perfil, ahí puede que encuentres información sobre su política de modeo.

10.Por ultimo, llevate de los consejos de los BATs, necesitas 2 BATs que aprueben el mapa, uno te dará el icono de la burbuja y si el segundo cree que todo esta en orden te dará el icono del corazón que significa que el mapa está ranked.

Buena suerte, espero esto haya sido de tu ayuda.
Topic Starter
Ariadim
Gracias Liz :)
Zare
Hi Ariadim, so let me give you some advice. If you happen to disagree with something, just tell me so in a small replying post. Remeber, you're the mapper and what you map is ultimately your choice, so you do not need to follow all of the suggestions. I'd just like to know the reasons for denying my suggestions then.
Also, if there's anything you do not understand, catch me ingame or write a forum pm, I'll answer as soon as I have the time.

General


  • This applies to all the difficulties, the files in the folder or the mapset in general.

  1. First of, your current .mp3 file is not rankable. It has a bitrate of 320 kBit/s, while only 128 - 192 kBit/s are allowed. You should convert the file by using Audacity or some converter, so that is has a Bitrate of 192 kBit/s, if you have trouble doing this properly, catch me ingame, I'll explain it to you.
  2. You need to use hitsounds, they, in theory, help making the song more interesting and give the player audible feedback when they click. I only saw a few hitsounds used very rarely, you should try experimenting a bit and think of hitsound patterns that may compliment the song. You could use finishes on every second big white tick (in the timeline, the big white ticks are called "downbeats", for future reference.) or try to add some whistles on sounds that seem to need to be stressed more than rest. Try to keep it consistent, but not boring.
  3. At the same time, you should consider to lower the volume of the hitsounds a little bit. Right now they're at 100%. When in the editor, you can click "f6" to open the timing panel. Click your offset (the red point in the list) and change the volume in the "Audio" tab. Maybe something around 60-70% would work.
    You can also change the volume during the map by adding so called inherited points. Go to the time you want the volume of the hitsounds changed, press "f6" (timing setup panel) and click the "+" sign to add a timing section, a so called inherited section, it will not alter the timing of your notes, but it has influence on the hitsound volume and the Slider velocity of all the objects that occur after the selected time. Select the green line in the list of the timing panel and click Audio to change the volume. Add more inherited lines to make volume dynamically fitting to the song.

    To be honest, since this track is very calm, this isn't really needed, it's just something to keep in mind if you map more stuff.

  4. About yor combo colors: They look nicely, But I'd suggest you swap color 2 and color 3. Right now color 1 and 2 are very alike, so it's hard to see when a new combo starts without looking at the numbers. Try to avoid this.

Easy



  1. 00:09:726 (1,2,3,4,5) - having 1/2 notes (notes on the red ticks in the timeline) is uncommon for an Easy diff like this. I'd suggest to try a rhythm like this:
    Basically, I deleted the first 4 notes and put a 1/2 sldier with a single reverse arrow on the end. This is pretty commonly used, and would work because the BPM of the song is quite low.
  2. 00:11:990 (1,2,3,4) - you should also think about changing this. New players aren't used to this many sliders and might missclick them. Maybe just putting circles on the first 2 white lines and then a sldier on the 3rd white line would work better?
  3. 00:17:085 (1,1) - You shouldn't stack notes (put them onto each other) like this in Easy difficulties, this is due to beginners searching for the next object after finishing one, and they wouldn't expect it to be at the same place. (Or they would get confused all the way and just panicclick). Try placing them using Distance Snap.
    Also, you should delete the second NC here, it isn't really necessary imo.
  4. 00:24:443 (1) - you can delete this NC as well (just press q when you select it). Try to keep a consistent NC pattern overall.
  5. 00:30:103 (1) - While this looks rather nice, I'd suggest you remove the reverse arrow on this slider, because you can then place a slider on the downbeat (again, the big white tick in the timeline, the first white line after the slider when you remove the reverse arrow), which will fit the music much better!
  6. 00:34:066 - You should place a circle here to emphasize the instrument
  7. 00:34:632 (1) - Imo this doesn't need a reverse arrow either, follow the suggestion for the previous one
  8. 00:38:594 (1,2,1,2) - again, stacking notes is kinda a controversial thing in Easy diffs, and I'd avice you not to do it. You could shape this differently. (a square, maybe?)
  9. 00:39:726 (1) - remove the NC here.
  10. 00:40:858 - Add a circle here for better emphasis
  11. 00:55:009 (3) - just a small hint: sliders with more than one reverse arrow are rather rare and tend to be surprising.
  12. 00:59:537 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - Sorry, but this is a big no. You shouldn't put circles on blue ticks like this in Easy diffs, they're hard to understand. Choose a more simple rhythm
  13. 01:19:915 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,1,2,3) - this is overall too much. Reduce the note density here.

Normal



  1. Put Circle Size 3 for this. The Easy is CS2, so going to 4 is kind of a huge change which is also not really common.
  2. 00:09:726 (1) - I suppose this wasn't intended to land on a blue tick like this?
  3. 00:18:075 (3,4,5,6) - be careful when mapping patterns like this. Make sure you use Distance Snap, because right now the spacing between 00:18:217 (4,5) - is lower than 00:18:500 (5,6). You should keep the spacing consistent at all times, unless you're mapping jumps, which you shouldn't do in a Normal diff.
  4. 00:30:103 (1) - On this, you placed a Finish hitsound on the Sliderstart (also called Sliderhead), the reverse Arrow and the Silierend (also called Slidertail). Imo it would fit better to only have it on the Sliderhead, so select the slider, then click the reverse arrow in the timeline and remove the finish, then click the sldierend and remove the finish here, too. It would fit better that way.
  5. 00:55:434 (3) - I'd say this is still hard to understand for normal players, maybe you shouldn't focus on the guitar-like instrument (tbh I don't know exactly what it is, sorry :I)l but just stick to the backgroudn rhythm and map on the white and red ticks.
  6. 01:03:641 (1,2,3,4) - This looks a bit too hard. You could make this easier by using two sliders instead of 4 circles.
  7. 01:09:726 (1) - remove the reverse arrow, then add a sldier on 01:10:858, this would feel great!
  8. 01:13:688 (1,2,3,4,5) - I'd reduce the desnity here too. In a Normal diff you usually don't have this many consecutive notes.
  9. 01:25:575 (1,2,3,4,5) - why exactly did you lower the spacing here? I'd suggest to just stick to Distance Snap
  10. 01:37:179 (1) - notes like this are hidden below the previous sliderbody, they are hard to see and should be moved somewhere else, so I'd suggest to place the whole pattern 01:37:179 (1,2,3,4) - like this:
  11. 01:41:141 (1,1) - You don't need these NCs. You shouldn't get used to using too many consecutive NCs like this, even if you think they look cool. In many maps, especially in harder difficulties, they might have a negative effect on the HP drain of the map. However, that is very advanced mapping theory, so let's just say that it's better to avoid so called NC spam for now.

Hard



  1. Use Approach Rate 7. The song is very slow and the [Normal] uses AR5, so oputting AR8 on [Hard] would be a huge gap.
  2. Also use Circle Size 4 for this, it seems to fit better imo.
  3. 00:01:519 (4) - I don't really like this slider. It skips a very imprtant sound at 00:01:802 - that should definitely be mapped.You should make the slider a bit shorter so it end on 00:01:802. The same also aplies to 00:03:783 (10).
  4. 00:02:368 (6,7) - this is a weird antijump. (An antijump is the oppsite of a jump, when you suddenly use lower spacing than what Distance snap would imply.) This looks like beteen these 2 notes there's only a 1/2 beat gap, when it's actually 1/1 beat. You should raise the spacing here to match ds.
    Also don't worry about playing objects directtly in the center of the map. In the actual gameplay, you won't see the x- and y-axis, so placing objects on them isn't needed in a way that would justify crippling your spacing like this.
  5. 00:14:113 (6,7) - why is the spacing between these objects so high? reduce it for consistency.
  6. 00:48:217 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - the NCs here aren't necessary. They don't help to understand this part at all and thus are kinda redundant.
  7. 00:53:170 (3) - remoev the reverse arrow and put a circle on 00:53:877, this feels way better because you don't skip the white tick.
  8. 01:11:141 (2,3,4,5,6,7) - so many notes as one stack are a little bit boring. Consider just spacing them with Distance Snap.
  9. 01:25:858 (1) - you should move this slider to 01:26:141, it fits better.

This is about it. I believe I pointed out the main things, could have gone more into detail but didn't want to overflow you with information (also all this takes a lot if time and effort to write :I) so I'm gonna keep it as is. tbh I think this is quite good for a new mapper, you used interesting rhythms and were kinda creative. Think about what I said about the hitsounds and the map should be able to get it ranked if you have the motivation, and the patience, to find more mods in order to improve this mapset.
I left you a star for now :)

Good Luck!

If you think this post helped you improve your map, don't forget to give me a kudosu <3
Topic Starter
Ariadim

Zarerion wrote:

General


  1. First of, your current .mp3 file is not rankable. It has a bitrate of 320 kBit/s, while only 128 - 192 kBit/s are allowed. :) Fixed
  2. You need to use hitsounds, they, in theory, help making the song more interesting and give the player audible feedback when they click. :) Fixed
  3. At the same time, you should consider to lower the volume of the hitsounds a little bit. :) fixed at 70% and working on inherited pionts

    To be honest, since this track is very calm, this isn't really needed, it's just something to keep in mind if you map more stuff. :?:

  4. About yor combo colors. :) Fixed

Easy



  1. 00:09:726 (1,2,3,4,5) - having 1/2 notes is uncommon for an Easy diff like :)Fixed
  2. 00:11:990 (1,2,3,4) - :shock: 50%-50% Slider+ circle x2 ;)
  3. 00:17:085 (1,1) - You shouldn't stack notes like this in Easy difficulties + DS. Also, you should delete the second NC here, it isn't really necessary imo. :)Fixed
  4. 00:24:443 (1) - you can delete this NC as well :!: I don't like to change it because I think in dual coop multigame. I think that playing the same combo quantity, with the same quantity of items would be easier for them.
  5. 00:30:103 (1) - I'd suggest you remove the reverse arrow on this slider :)Fixed
  6. 00:34:066 - You should place a circle here to emphasize the instrument :)Fixed
  7. 00:34:632 (1) - Follow the suggestion for the previous one :)Fixed
  8. 00:38:594 :)I placed a breaktime
  9. 00:55:009 (3) - :)New circular slider
  10. 00:59:537 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - Sorry, but this is a big no. You shouldn't put circles on blue ticks like this in Easy diffs. Choose a more simple rhythm
    :)Fixed, but not with your example xD Check it please
  11. 01:19:915 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,1,2,3) - Reduce the note density here :)Fixed

Normal



  1. Put Circle Size 3 for this. :)Fixed
  2. 00:09:726 (1) - I suppose this wasn't intended to land on a blue tick like this? :)Fixed
  3. 00:18:075 (3,4,5,6) - the spacing between 00:18:217 (4,5) - is lower than 00:18:500 (5,6) :)Fixed :?:but if i fixed 5~6 distance, i should fix 00:19:349 (1) - too? (or can it pass?)
  4. 00:30:103 (1) - :!: I don't get it at all. But i changed this slider. Please check it ;)
  5. 00:55:434 (3) - I'd say this is still hard to understand for normal players :!: Actually i do that because is the guitar part. A special part. I think it's not very hard. I want to keep it, sorry.
  6. 01:03:641 (1,2,3,4) - You could make this easier by using two sliders instead of 4 circles. :shock: 50%-50% 1 slider, 2 circles ;)
  7. 01:09:726 (1) - remove the reverse arrow, then add a sldier on 01:10:858, this would feel great! :)Fixed
  8. 01:13:688 (1,2,3,4,5) - I'd reduce the desnity here too. In a Normal diff you usually don't have this many consecutive notes :)Fixed
  9. 01:25:575 (1,2,3,4,5) - I'd suggest to just stick to Distance Snap :roll:Fixed, but i think it is a very ugly combo now. I'm worried too because next red colour can't start in the middle of the screen if i follow DS
  10. 01:37:179 (1) - I'd suggest to place the whole pattern 01:37:179 (1,2,3,4) - :)Fixed, but i did it following the shape of the yellow slider ^^
  11. 01:41:141 (1,1) - You don't need these NCs. :)Fixed

Hard



  1. Use Approach Rate 7 :!: I prefer use 8 because you can read better some closer items and because at 00:48:217, with AP8 you play a perfect cross meanwhile with AP7, you see them in a diferent position
  2. Also use Circle Size 4 :)Fixed
  3. 00:01:519 (4) - I don't really like this slider. It skips a very imprtant sound at 00:01:802 :roll:Fixed, but i like this seminote
  4. 00:02:368 (6,7) - this is a weird antijump. :!: I like this position because this way, it's a simetric combo. Anyway, you shouldn't have problems for read it
  5. 00:14:113 (6,7) - why is the spacing between these objects so high? :)Fixed
  6. 00:48:217 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - the NCs here aren't necessary. :!: I try to make a little challenge for cooperative multigames.
  7. 00:53:170 (3) - remoev the reverse arrow and put a circle on 00:53:877 :!: I like this shape, sorry.
  8. 01:11:141 (2,3,4,5,6,7) - Consider just spacing them with Distance Snap. :)Fixed
  9. 01:25:858 (1) - you should move this slider to 01:26:141, it fits better. :) This reverse sliders is a new combo

I'll be pleased if you help me with inherited points :(
I spend the same time fixing and trying diferent stuffs as you spend modding ;)
I left you a star for now :);)

Good Luck! :DThanks

If you think this post helped you improve your map, don't forget to give me a kudosu <3
Zare
Okay most of the changes you applied seem fine to me, however, I seem to have missed this slider in the Hard diff:
00:28:688 (4) - It's offscreen on 4:3 resolutions, you should make sure all objects are inside the grid.

About 00:19:349 (1) in Easy: Yes, you should fix the spacing here too. It's more important to have working spacing than symmetrical patterns.
01:25:575 (1,2,3,4,5) - This would be fine like this, if the spacing from 01:25:009 (3) to 01:25:575 (1) wouldn't be this low. Rearrange this ( if needed, put the circles in a curvy shape)
Topic Starter
Ariadim

Zarerion wrote:

Okay most of the changes you applied seem fine to me, however, I seem to have missed this slider in the Hard diff:
00:28:688 (4) - It's offscreen on 4:3 resolutions, you should make sure all objects are inside the grid.

About 00:19:349 (1) in Easy: Yes, you should fix the spacing here too. It's more important to have working spacing than symmetrical patterns.
01:25:575 (1,2,3,4,5) - This would be fine like this, if the spacing from 01:25:009 (3) to 01:25:575 (1) wouldn't be this low. Rearrange this ( if needed, put the circles in a curvy shape)
:)All fixed ^^
Yoshi_green
Hi, I'm just passing by a little mod here:

[General]
For the source, you can just put "Suikoden Tierkreis" and put "ost" in the tags. Also, it's not needed to put "Suikoden Tierkreis" in the tags, since it's in the source already
I suggest using a preview point for your map that is not the beginning of the song
Make sure to be consistent with the use of New Combos; for example, in the [Hard], the beginning combo has 12 objects... I would use a New Combo every one measure when it comes to a [Hard], and once every two measures on the easier difficulties, but it depends on the map, really
I also see some inconsistencies in your use of hit sounds too, make sure to take a look into that
Oh, and also, distance spacing is important. Remember to keep the distance spacing between notes about the same, especially in the easier difficulties (For example, 00:01:802 (2,3,4) - )

---

Using a lot of sliders that are parallel to the x or y-axis is not that visually appealing to me, but that's only in my opinion; don't listen to that if you think otherwise

Alright, I'm seeing quite a few sliders here which sadly are not to my liking (they're not delicious enough!)

Take this for example, in the [Hard]:
This can be touched up by making all 5 points symmetrical on the y-axis by moving them on the grid, like this:
You can see that the middle point is right in the middle of the two ends of the slider, and the same idea is used with the 2nd and 4th points. Also, the head and the end is lined up on same y-coordinates. Usually, it only takes 5 or less points to create a half-circle slider like this; any more points wouldn't be helping it
Let's take a look at another one, also in the [Hard]:
Now, 5 points on a slider of this length is too many D: it doesn't look pretty either :< it can be made into something much simpler, by removing a few unnecessary points, just like this:
Also, I can't find an example of a wave slider, but you can try to incorporate it into your map somewhere, like this:
Looks nice, and usually plays nice too

You can also refer to here: A Guide to Making Delicious Sliders for more help and ideas ^^ Even though it's an old forum, it still helps me once in a while

Alright, since I've given so much attention to sliders now, I won't point out ALL of the questionable sliders because I know you can fix some on your own; you can always PM me in-game if you need help too

Let's go back to the regular modding:

I actually addressed most of the problems in the [General] section, but anyways...

[Easy]
100% volume on a map is not rankable, iirc

00:05:198 (1,2) - You can just copy 00:05:198 (1) -, paste it and rotate it
00:07:462 (1) - Follow the guide I linked you above to get a better idea on how to make a circle slider ^^
00:34:632 (1) - See, something like this is typically not very acceptable
The break between 00:38:594 (5) - and 00:41:424 (1) - is not necessary; you can add a few more objects
01:10:858 (1,1) - Same idea, you can try to make a more simple slider, or add a few more objects while making the slider a shorter length

[Normal]
There are a lot of clustered notes here; I suggest to change AR from 4 --> 5

[Hard]
Most of the problems here can be referred back to the [General] section. The issues are pretty much just Distance Spacing, New Combos, and sliders. By fixing those, you can have a much better map overall

---

Well, this didn't turn out to be such a "little" mod :/
Anyways, I think I pointed out the major things to address; more detail would be too much information at this point in time =w=
I hope I was of use, and good luck on your map~ :3
-Faded-
Hi there o/ From #modreqs :DI'm going to try to see if I can post a wall like you gais >.<

General

Uneven length in difficulties, I suggest fixing this.

Easy

00:04:632 (3) - You should move this to x:216 y:232 for a much nicer looking triangle formation.
00:05:198 (1,2) - If you repositioned the hitcircle I mentioned above, then try repositioning these sliders so they are like this becasuse it iis much better for flow and looks a lot nicer imo
00:07:462 (1,1) - Try this, nicer looking and it has better flow.
00:14:254 (1) - This spinner isn't really necessary because there are still audible notes going on.
00:25:575 (1,2,1) - Try this instead? More visually appealing imo
00:39:160 (1) - For reasons stated previously, this spinner also isn't necessary, so you should remove it.
00:41:424 (1,1) - You should curve these sliders less, it will look more visually appealing and easier to read.
00:45:953 (3) - to 00:49:915 (6) - I'm sorry, but I suggest a remap of this part. Too many circles, bad flow and no sliders :/ This is very bad for an [Easy] diff.
00:55:009 (3) - Rotate 90 degrees anti clockwise to improve flow and visuals.
00:57:273 (1,2,3,4) - Beginners will have a hard time reading this series of sliders.
01:15:386 (1,1) - Move one of these so the two notes aren't awkwardly stacking.
01:26:707 (1,2,1) - This is a lot more visually appealing. (move the circle to x:160 y:136)
01:31:236 (1,1) - I'm pretty sure sliders overlapping each other in such a way is unrankable. But even if it isn't, I strongly suggest you fix the overlap because it's igly imo and very hard to read.

Normal

00:05:198 (1,1,2,3) - The curly slider overlaps with the three normal sliders. This can be confusing to read, so please fix this.
00:11:990 (1,1,1) - Try this instead for better visuals.
00:15:386 (1) - No new combo here.
00:19:349 (1,2,3,4) - Move all slider ends too x:120 y:88 so they all stack on the same px.
00:24:443 (2,3,1) - Try this instead.
00:57:981 (1,2) - Move 00:58:405 (2) - because despite it being spaced alright, I can still imagine tripping up that note due to thinking it was 1/4 away. Consider turning 00:57:981 (1) - into a repeater then respacing 00:58:405 (2) - accordingly.
01:04:773 (1,2) - ^
01:09:726 (1,2) - Bad overlap is bad :< Fix this please, it isn't easily readable.
01:29:820 (1) - Move to x:168 y:88? Goes past the distance snap but I doubt people will notice since the note is more than a whole beat away.
01:34:066 (1,2,3) - Hard to read and could easily be mistaken for the sliders to be 1/4 away.
01:40:858 (2,1) - Have a new combo at 01:40:858 (2) - instead of 01:41:141 (1) -

Hard

Reduce the AR by 1 or 2 because AR8 is mainly used for easier insanes. Since this is an easier hard by the looks of it, I suggest reducinng the AR by one or two. (7 or 6)
00:14:820 (8) - Move to x:231 y:170 so it stacks properly.
00:15:386 (9) - the way this overlaps with 00:14:820 (8) - is ugly and hard to read imo because it is underneath the slider track. Go with a normal stack or don't stack at all.
00:21:047 (1) - Rotate 30 degrees clockwise from selection center to improve flow.
00:52:745 (1) - Don't stack this with 00:53:028 (2,3) - because it will make it difficult to read, especially on hidden.
01:14:820 (6,7) - Try this to improve visuals and flows.
01:32:085 (4) - Move this so it isn't part of the stack with 01:31:519 (1,2,3) - because as I mentioned before, it will make it hard to read, especially on hidden.
01:32:368 (1) - Spinner not needed here because of the audible notes, and you managed to map 01:36:896 (5,6,1) - which was mapped to pretty much the same tune.


Well that's it from me! Good luck on getting it ranked!
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