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Kalafina - Kimi no Gin no Niwa

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Garven
We've had several IRC modding sessions to follow up on the mapset.

All difficulties except for the Extra are pretty much set and I am happy with them. Extra is pushing the overmapping way too far and is completely disingenuous to the song it's supposed to represent. No compelling reasons were presented to justify the overmapping, so I offered to move this set forward without Extra in the set, but Hollow Wings does not wish to do so.

I don't really see this set going anywhere with the Extra still attached, sorry.
buhei
Hhh
Irreversible
hello~ time to check the rhythm first!

[Extra]

00:02:665 (1) - Is that unsnapped? I doubt that it's 1/16
please recheck all stuff that follows the piano in the begin, sometimes it has a quite odd snapping..

00:47:817 - To avoid having a too spammed rhythm here, can you try this? http://puu.sh/aDbSb.png It follows the vocals nicely~
00:50:655 (1,1) - remove NC, since they're all in one sentence imo.
00:53:087 (1,1) - too
01:00:384 (2) - If you want to use more rhythm, you have the best chance here - you can use more beats here if you want!
01:09:709 - This part has an odd rhythm too. While I think it works, my suggestion would only contain overmap too... maybe you can think of something else?
01:25:824 (2) - remove nc
01:59:979 (2) - remove nc
02:00:790 (4) - add nc
02:18:223 (2,3) - remove nc
02:20:656 (1,1) - remove nc
02:26:331 (1,1,2,1,1,2,1) - While the Ncing looks fancy, it doesn't really make sense, does it? I think it's readable without the spam. Please rearrange the Nc.
03:38:391 (1) - remove nc
03:39:000 - I don't understand this rhythm, I guess you could just follow the vocals with the slider before, right?
04:01:601 (1) - remove nc
04:05:959 (1) - remove NC
04:06:060 (2) - add nc
04:06:466 (1) - remove nc
04:19:236 (3,4,1) - REALLY weird 1/4 jump, please just make it regular
04:20:553 (3,1) - same, i guess this will just cause frustration instead of something else


About rhythm: Most of it is really better now, try to fix the rhythms above and we're on a good way.
About NC: Fix the ones above, please, I guess you sometimes make it quite wrong. Why would you add a NC on a blue tick? Remember: Use it on a new sentence, or a new downbeat (White tick).
About placing: It's okay mostly, I don't want to say too much to that, it seems fun to me.

Will mod the rest after applying.
Topic Starter
Hollow Wings

Irreversible wrote:

hello~ time to check the rhythm first!

[Extra]

00:02:665 (1) - Is that unsnapped? I doubt that it's 1/16 right, changed
please recheck all stuff that follows the piano in the begin, sometimes it has a quite odd snapping..
coz the song itself plays like that odd orz fixed some and i think they r fine now
00:47:817 - To avoid having a too spammed rhythm here, can you try this? http://puu.sh/aDbSb.png It follows the vocals nicely~ tried and i think it's cool, changed
00:50:655 (1,1) - remove NC, since they're all in one sentence imo. my bad, fixed
00:53:087 (1,1) - too ^
01:00:384 (2) - If you want to use more rhythm, you have the best chance here - you can use more beats here if you want! lol, here i think follow the drum is good enough www
01:09:709 - This part has an odd rhythm too. While I think it works, my suggestion would only contain overmap too... maybe you can think of something else? uhh... this is some kind of odd to some people maybe, but it plays nice. well idk if this set is the best choice, but i just keep it now 0.0
01:25:824 (2) - remove nc fixed, and 01:27:040 (1) - as well
01:59:979 (2) - remove nc oh, here's an sv changing before this nc, maybe keep it is better?
02:00:790 (4) - add nc changed and 01:58:358 (3) - as well
02:18:223 (2,3) - remove nc fixed
02:20:656 (1,1) - remove nc fixed
02:26:331 (1,1,2,1,1,2,1) - While the Ncing looks fancy, it doesn't really make sense, does it? I think it's readable without the spam. Please rearrange the Nc. it's totally my bad to set this stupid nc stuff, all fixed
03:38:391 (1) - remove nc ok
03:39:000 - I don't understand this rhythm, I guess you could just follow the vocals with the slider before, right? right, changed rhythm here
04:01:601 (1) - remove nc uhh... sv changing here, keep this to help reading the slider?
04:05:959 (1) - remove NC right
04:06:060 (2) - add nc ^
04:06:466 (1) - remove nc sv changing here as well... i think i can larger ds here, it feels better imo
04:19:236 (3,4,1) - REALLY weird 1/4 jump, please just make it regular
04:20:553 (3,1) - same, i guess this will just cause frustration instead of something else
thou i really love this pattern, but seems it really don't work well at this part indeed, so i decide to change this ;w; changed to another pattern

About rhythm: Most of it is really better now, try to fix the rhythms above and we're on a good way. it really took much time to deal with that, yes ;w;
About NC: Fix the ones above, please, I guess you sometimes make it quite wrong. Why would you add a NC on a blue tick? Remember: Use it on a new sentence, or a new downbeat (White tick). my bad to set nc like that, already fixed ;w;
About placing: It's okay mostly, I don't want to say too much to that, it seems fun to me. thx ;w;

Will mod the rest after applying.
thx for modding irre!!
Irreversible
Rebubbled~

We got rid off some more weird rhythm, and improved some placement, but after all the map is really good as it is now!

Good luck HW~
Topic Starter
Hollow Wings

Irreversible wrote:

Rebubbled~

We got rid off some more weird rhythm, and improved some placement, but after all the map is really good as it is now!

Good luck HW~
thank u irre! >.<
Kodora
oooo very glad to see this bubbled!
HanzeR
someone needs to rank this already holee fck
Sellenite

Hollow Wings wrote:

梶浦由记你就是个挂
X Light
祝早日rank!歌太好听了
69653863
so wheres da rank
bank78952
you map/hitsonud is so cool but it so very hard on ctb but i like this map
here my star :)
Irie Miyuki
占位恭喜OwO
Lust
IRC modded with HW

log
10:34 *Lust pokes
10:44 Hollow Wings: recongraz to be a bat!!
10:45 Lust: thank you >w<
10:45 Hollow Wings: so
10:45 Hollow Wings: can i rank that 1 month long bubbled one lo
10:45 Hollow Wings: l
10:45 Lust: of course, thats why i poked you :P
10:46 Hollow Wings: hmm? u poke me??
10:46 Hollow Wings: oh, maybe i just lagged and can't see ur post ;w;
10:46 Lust: http://puu.sh/bGD1o/f288bc3c8c.jpg QAQ
10:47 Hollow Wings: >.<
10:48 Hollow Wings: i just disconnected to osu serverse
10:49 Hollow Wings: do we need further mod or?
10:49 Hollow Wings: just irc or something?
10:49 Lust: just irc :3
10:49 Hollow Wings: ok w
10:52 Lust: give me a few moments o u o
10:52 Hollow Wings: ok ovo
10:54 *Lust is editing [http://osu.ppy.sh/b/469565 Kalafina - Kimi no Gin no Niwa [Extra]]
10:55 Lust: 00:00:207 (1) - are you sure this is snapped to 1/16? i feel like it can actually end on the white tick
10:55 Hollow Wings: let me see
10:56 Hollow Wings: oh, i can promise this slider is snapped right
10:56 Hollow Wings: if that end is on the white line, there'll be offset, really
10:56 Lust: alright, just making sure
10:57 Hollow Wings: >.<
10:58 Lust: 00:02:690 (1) - here i would think it would make more sense and sound better to the music if you had it start on the blue tick
10:59 Lust: also, being on tick it is now it can be a little surprising to the gameplay
10:59 Hollow Wings: uh...
11:00 Hollow Wings: maybe u can listen to the song with 25% playback rate at this part...
11:00 Hollow Wings: not sure if it's perfect but...
11:00 Hollow Wings: if it starts at blue line, it'll be offset too...
11:01 Hollow Wings: i understand
11:01 Hollow Wings: hmm
11:01 Hollow Wings: alright
11:01 Hollow Wings: i'll just change the rhythm here
11:01 Hollow Wings: i'll give a 1/8 slider start at 00:02:817
11:02 Hollow Wings: do u think it's better in playing and set?
11:02 Lust: hmmm yeah much better, now the strong beat there is accented by a slider start as opposed to a slider end
11:02 Lust: which is a lot more satisfying to play
11:03 Hollow Wings: ok www
11:03 Hollow Wings: oh, i need to fix the same part at insane diff
11:04 Hollow Wings: oh, no same rhythm here, insane just has a note www
11:04 Lust: xDDD
11:07 Hollow Wings: >.<
11:08 Lust: 01:14:978 (5,1) - to avoid any potential unqualifications, i suggest you move 1's repeat to another location because 01:14:978 (5) - 's hitburst covers it for a short while
11:08 Lust: http://puu.sh/bGEj1/ef94ca8e8b.jpg
11:09 Hollow Wings: ok
11:09 Hollow Wings: changed
11:10 Lust: i mean it plays find and players can guess that there is a repeat there and most people do not play with the default skin anyway, but you know how QAT members xD
11:11 Hollow Wings: i see, thou idk if skin's combo "300" overlapped that arrow's unrankble or not...
11:11 Hollow Wings: anyway, i changed this to anohter style
11:12 Lust: 01:20:047 (3,4,5) - this pattern can appear as confusing, because 3 jumps cross screen to 4 and then 5 suddenly changes the direction of the play
11:12 Lust: when jumping, players also may not notice 4's location and go straight to 5
11:13 Hollow Wings: hmm
11:13 Hollow Wings: thou this is somekind of my fav pattern
11:13 Hollow Wings: to pro, they can read 4 before hit 5, truely
11:13 Lust: yeah, it looks really neat although it doesnt play as well as i hoped
11:13 Lust: i am not really concerned about that aspect
11:14 Lust: its the drastic flow change that i worry about
11:14 Hollow Wings: hmm yep
11:15 Hollow Wings: 01:20:249 (4,5) - i'll move this to274,185
11:15 Hollow Wings: together with that location
11:15 Hollow Wings: so players can play this pattern with smaller jump
11:16 Hollow Wings: and see that note clearly
11:16 Hollow Wings: thou that flow is a special or weird flow
11:16 Hollow Wings: but i think it's really good in playing when it's easy to catch
11:16 Hollow Wings: also adjust 01:20:655 (1) - 's position to keep blanket
11:17 Hollow Wings: is that ok to u ovo
11:17 Lust: one second let me test it
11:17 Hollow Wings: ok w
11:19 Lust: 01:20:047 (3) - move this to maybe 487:288 so the play is a little less sharp and more comfortable
11:19 Lust: or a location similar
11:20 Hollow Wings: ok
11:20 Hollow Wings: done
11:20 Hollow Wings: ofc
11:20 Hollow Wings: i'll adjust ds here
11:22 Lust: if you do this, it plays much better
11:22 Hollow Wings: yeah right
11:22 Hollow Wings: i'm just upload my screenshot
11:22 Hollow Wings: (in low speed
11:23 Lust: orz why does chinese people always have hard time uploading photos ;w;
11:23 Lust: whenever irie wants to send me a photo it takes so long ;w;w;w;
11:23 Hollow Wings: http://puu.sh/bGFjv/bde728f8cc.jpg
11:23 Hollow Wings: coz chinese network sucks
11:24 Hollow Wings: and also blocked to lots of sites
11:24 Lust: exactly what i had, perfect
11:24 Lust: yeah i am aware of that orz
11:24 Hollow Wings: like google, facebook or youtube ;w;
11:24 Lust: sites like twitter and youtube
11:24 Hollow Wings: lol ok!
11:24 Hollow Wings: yeah ;w;
11:29 Lust: alright that should be about it for the extra diff
11:29 Hollow Wings: ok! >.<
11:38 Lust: wow i am really impressed by this insane
11:38 Lust: sorry for the late response, i am checking everything at the moment
11:38 Hollow Wings: no problem
11:38 Lust: i think it expresses the song quite wonderfully
11:38 Hollow Wings: i'm appreciate that u can check this w
11:39 Hollow Wings: haha ok
11:39 Lust: some spacings could use some work but overall i think its quite indeed playable and fun to play at that
11:40 Hollow Wings: hmm alright
11:40 Hollow Wings: if those r in ok-level to u www
11:40 Lust: they are perfectly fine to me
11:40 Hollow Wings: ok >.<
11:43 Lust: hmmm there is one part in minakami yuki's part in the hard that i would like to see changed but hes not online zzz
11:43 Hollow Wings: i'll call him right now
11:45 Lust: if you could that would be great
11:45 Lust: its just one suggestion
11:45 Hollow Wings: ok, can i just listen to it in advance?
11:46 Lust: 04:12:141 (1,2,3,1) - here the play is rather sharp, the slider velocity on 04:12:141 (1) - is not quite enough to flow smoothly in to the triplet
11:47 Lust: the result is a pretty awkward play when the majority flows rather well
11:47 Hollow Wings: lol that's just my part orz
11:47 Hollow Wings: i adjust his part to collab mine
11:47 Hollow Wings: those notes
11:47 Hollow Wings: ;w;
11:47 Hollow Wings: i'll fix that
11:47 Lust: alright, that is fine if he doesnt mind
11:48 Hollow Wings: i had his permission to change this now
11:49 Lust: http://puu.sh/bGGSf/f1680eb6d8.jpg something like this could work rather nicely
11:49 Hollow Wings: ok w
11:49 Hollow Wings: that's exactly what i'm doing
11:49 Lust: perfect! :3
11:50 Hollow Wings: done!
11:50 Hollow Wings: i called yuki
11:50 Hollow Wings: he's online now
11:50 Lust: yeah i saw he just came online
11:50 Hollow Wings: >.<
11:52 Lust: 01:54:709 (1) - is this spinner yours or yuki's part?
11:52 Hollow Wings: yuki
11:53 Hollow Wings: delete it?
11:53 Hollow Wings: w
11:53 Lust: i think he should map it out
11:54 Lust: 01:55:925 - atleast starting from here
11:54 Hollow Wings: ok
11:54 Hollow Wings: changed
11:58 Lust: normal looks good
11:58 Lust: update the mapset and let me have a final recheck
11:58 Hollow Wings: ok! >.<
11:59 Hollow Wings: ok!!!
11:59 Hollow Wings: thx a lot!!! >.<
12:00 Lust: ah just in time
12:01 Hollow Wings: done!
12:01 Lust: 8 maps were ranked yesterday, and the timer expired just now
12:01 Hollow Wings: www
12:01 Hollow Wings: oh really? lol
12:01 Hollow Wings: i didn't notice that ;w;

What we fixed:
  1. Cleared up a confusing rhythm and made it more satisfying to play
  2. Made plenty of patterns more readable and smoother to play in Extra and Hard
  3. Improved the flow in certain patterns throughout the diffs
  4. Moved a repeat that was obscured by a hitburst in the Extra

This map has been bubbled long enough, call me back after you finish your changes!
Topic Starter
Hollow Wings
thx a lot Lust! we've done lots of fixes and changes to give a better version in this map

yeah i'm ready >.<
Lust
Qualified! Another lovely map from a lovely mapper!
[ Mephisto ]
O.O
Awaken
我草 一场战争不可避免 魔法QAT们正在成群结队的逼近中
Irie Miyuki

Awaken wrote:

我草 一场战争不可避免 魔法QAT们正在成群结队的逼近中
kamisamaaa

Awaken wrote:

我草 一场战争不可避免 魔法QAT们正在成群结队的逼近中
tukamoto7km
gratz HW
Topic Starter
Hollow Wings
thank to all people who helped to this map

really... really...

now, i don't know, what to do
Ethercastle
恭喜hw!
Flask

Awaken wrote:

我草 一场战争不可避免 魔法QAT们正在成群结队的逼近中
fanzhen0019
干蛋呢
Sellenite

Awaken wrote:

我草 一场战争不可避免 魔法QAT们正在成群结队的逼近中
Myxo
Congratz <3
Neliel
Congrats.

03:19:844 - I love this map really, but I think you should reconsider this SV change. Its not really nice to play and really hard to follow.
pw384

Flask wrote:

Awaken wrote:

我草 一场战争不可避免 魔法QAT们正在成群结队的逼近中
[Seraphin]
w
gratz
Melophobia
wow this insane is :o I really want you to replace the soft-hitnormal with this http://puu.sh/bGWHq/9ea6aaaa5b.zip please take this into consideration if by any chance this gets unqualified. ;_;

More importantly, I think source is "劇場版 魔法少女まどかマギカ[新編]叛逆の物語" which is romanized into "Gekijouban Mahoushoujo Madoka*Magica [Shinpen] Hangyaku no Monogatari". (I suggest using the formar as Source, since the romanized one looks terrible. lol)
Topic Starter
Hollow Wings

Melophobia wrote:

wow this insane is :o I really want you to replace the soft-hitnormal with this http://puu.sh/bGWHq/9ea6aaaa5b.zip please take this into consideration if by any chance this gets unqualified. ;_;

More importantly, I think source is "劇場版 魔法少女まどかマギカ[新編]叛逆の物語" which is romanized into "Gekijouban Mahoushoujo Madoka*Magica [Shinpen] Hangyaku no Monogatari". (I suggest using the formar as Source, since the romanized one looks terrible. lol)
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/131685

there's a ranked version of this song

isn't that source acceptable??????

i just use ranked ones...
TicClick
Hello. Unfortunately, I have to disqualify your map due to the following reasons:

[Extra]
  1. It has LOTS of overstretched 3/4 sliders that feel forced and needless to use, while most of the sounds and music phrases are plain 1/2, especially the vocals:
    1. 00:10:520 (2) -
    2. 00:21:060 (3,4) -
    3. 00:23:493 (4,5) -
      and so on. Note that it goes nearly for all extended sliders.
[Insane]
  1. A couple of patterns that are very uncomfortable and unnatural to play:
    1. 02:36:061 (1,2,3,4,5) -
    2. 03:45:384 (5,6,7,8,9,10) -

Now about suggestions (Insane diff.)
  1. Insane has very inconsistent spacing and spacing changes that don't look logical at all, except the parts with vocal, maybe. They probably follow the song or attempt to do so, but in such manner that the whole map consists of random and hardly predictable speedups and slowdowns. I'd even consider things like 04:27:547 (1) as spacing errors if they didn't have new combo.

  2. It is suggested to use CS 4.5 and OD 6.5 on Insane to make a better spread; having Extra with CS lower than on Insane looks like Extra's CS was set up that way solely to make it more playable and to justify high SV and rapid jumps.

  3. You got at least one slider following vocals in an incorrect way: 01:19:946 (6) should be starting from the white tick before it.
The rest of the set (Hard, Normal) is surprisingly good. Also note this mapset will be handled by BAT from now on, but you are encouraged to collect some mods first, given the fact that Insane requires.. uh, more attention.

P.S. Regarding the source: it's better to use original (Japanese) spelling, as Melo suggested.
1319
fuggin rekt
Topic Starter
Hollow Wings

TicClick wrote:

Hello. Unfortunately, I have to disqualify your map due to the following reasons:

[Extra]
  1. It has LOTS of overstretched 3/4 sliders that feel forced and needless to use, while most of the sounds and music phrases are plain 1/2, especially the vocals: they r not forced and needless to use, if turn those extended sliders into 1/2 ones, still can't express long consecutive vocal melody. use 3/4 ones can do that better than 1/2 ones. and also it's not a rare example to set rhythms like this, u can find sets which exactly the same ones in lots of lots of ranked maps nowadays.
    1. 00:10:520 (2) -
    2. 00:21:060 (3,4) -
    3. 00:23:493 (4,5) -
      and so on. Note that it goes nearly for all extended sliders.
[Insane]
  1. A couple of patterns that are very uncomfortable and unnatural to play:
    1. 02:36:061 (1,2,3,4,5) - thou i can't find issue here, i still reversed slider 1
    2. 03:45:384 (5,6,7,8,9,10) - changed 8,9,10's order into 9,10,8 with better flow and phasis jump to 1 behind

Now about suggestions (Insane diff.)
  1. Insane has very inconsistent spacing and spacing changes that don't look logical at all, except the parts with vocal, maybe. They probably follow the song or attempt to do so, but in such manner that the whole map consists of random and hardly predictable speedups and slowdowns. I'd even consider things like 04:27:547 (1) as spacing errors if they didn't have new combo. that's also a kind of pattern used in so much ranked maps nowadays, some kind of ds or sv or rhythm shifting noticed by nc

  2. It is suggested to use CS 4.5 and OD 6.5 on Insane to make a better spread; having Extra with CS lower than on Insane looks like Extra's CS was set up that way solely to make it more playable and to justify high SV and rapid jumps. changed

  3. You got at least one slider following vocals in an incorrect way: 01:19:946 (6) should be starting from the white tick before it. changed rhythm here into 2 notes
The rest of the set (Hard, Normal) is surprisingly good. Also note this mapset will be handled by BAT from now on, but you are encouraged to collect some mods first, given the fact that Insane requires.. uh, more attention. hmm, does 32 bats' mods already enough?

P.S. Regarding the source: it's better to use original (Japanese) spelling, as Melo suggested. changed, thou i got really surprised that ranked map's source can't be ranked
thx for modding! and updated now

and rip dear madoka my map, will u be rot in graveyard?
HanzeR

TicClick wrote:

Hello. Unfortunately, I have to disqualify your map due to the following reasons:

[notice][Extra]
  1. It has LOTS of overstretched 3/4 sliders that feel forced and needless to use, while most of the sounds and music phrases are plain 1/2, especially the vocals:
    1. 00:10:520 (2) -
    2. 00:21:060 (3,4) -
    3. 00:23:493 (4,5) -
      and so on. Note that it goes nearly for all extended sliders.
Wait what pause for a second


Extended sliders are unrankable now?

https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmaplist?m=-1&r=11&g=0&la=0&ra= Unqualify these next please!~

Not liking this new ranking system at all. Seems like QATs only job is to make mappers life more difficult, if they can unqualify any map just because they don't like it. The only problem with this mapset is that its not ranked.
Myxo
I'd like to add a problem I found when looking through the map:

[Normal]

00:04:033 (2) - I wouldn't use multiple-reverse-sliders in a Normal, especially not in the easiest difficulty. The multiple repeats aren't visible early enough. Try to replace it by two 1/2-sliders and a circle, or simplify the rhythm by using an 1/1-reverse-slider (maybe with a red anchor in the middle, then it has almost the same effect as your current slider has.)
The same applies for the other slider that you used later on.

Good luck with re-ranking this mapset! The Extra is very fun to play, as always! :)
Topic Starter
Hollow Wings

Desperate-kun wrote:

I'd like to add a problem I found when looking through the map:

[Normal]

00:04:033 (2) - I wouldn't use multiple-reverse-sliders in a Normal, especially not in the easiest difficulty. The multiple repeats aren't visible early enough. Try to replace it by two 1/2-sliders and a circle, or simplify the rhythm by using an 1/1-reverse-slider (maybe with a red anchor in the middle, then it has almost the same effect as your current slider has.)
The same applies for the other slider that you used later on. yes i agree with u, checked all reversing sliders and fixed all these patterns (sry Desperate-kun i disapointted u again in lower diffs ;w;

Good luck with re-ranking this mapset! The Extra is very fun to play, as always! :) thank u ;w;
thx for modding!
eh - - -
Hollowwing maps are one of my favos to play because of the flow the maps have.
This includes the tricky patterns .

I found the Extra very enjoyable to play , in its current state.

By such critics allot of oldschool maps would need a unrank hammer . hell even allot of 2014 maps.
Zare


Yeah. Don't unrank over stuff that isn't an issue.
Unrank over shit rhythms such as
01:04:033 (2) -
01:09:912 (2) -
01:11:939 (1) -
03:24:709 (1,2) -
because these are actually bad
the sliders ending on blue ticks in order to emphasize vocals or violin melodys are NOT.
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