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mouse change to lower dpi - issues

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Topic Starter
Xcrypt
So I've been trying to go from 1200 dpi to 600 dpi and I've been playing with 600 dpi for about 2-3 weeks now.
I've pretty much gotten used to the jump distances and bigger movements, so it feels like my aim is definitely a bit better than before. What also works a lot better is snapping/hitting fast singles. However, I'm having a lot of consistency issues that probably make low dpi worse for me.

Issue 1: I am able to use wrist movement for horizontal movement but not for vertical movement. When I try to go vertical with wrist/fingers (my grip is sorta like claw grip but not 100%) I just lose grip because the movement is too big. My fingers turn inside my palm when going downwards, causing me to actuate the mouse buttons at times (which I have disabled now but still distracts me enormously), my thumb/pinky grip is awful too in this position. Going upwards, I also feel like I am losing grip. I am also completely unable to make straight vertical movement using this large wrist movement. The up/downwards trails I make are very curvy and ugly.

Issue 2 (following from Issue 1): Because my large vertical wrist/finger mouse movement is so sloppy, I have developed a weird aiming style where I use wrist for horizontal movement and depending on the situation I use either wrist/finger or arm for vertical movement.

Issue 3 (following from Issue 2): I am noticing that my arms often stick to the table surface so I can't do it properly like this. I have learned to use the border on my table as some kind of a pivot point for vertical arm movement, it also feels like there's less friction and stickiness when I place my elbow just a bit over the border.

I really dislike all this arm movement stuff and I am wondering if somebody out there has or has had the same problems. Maybe there's just something wrong with my technique for vertical mouse wrist/finger movement because I just can't seem to make straight lines like that. I'm probably going to end up switching to 800-1000 dpi so I can use smaller wrist movements again.
RaneFire
#1: Train yourself to draw straight lines quickly, but you need to start slow, like anything (You use more force and cause an imbalance in the muscles used when you try to move quicker, so it's much harder to master). The easiest way to do this is to set up a paint.NET canvas with several straight lines radiating from the center, and then trying to trace them successively in freehand. Once you have done that a few times I recommend going to aim400kg website and playing Exact Aim and Fast Aim alternately. The reason you are having a problem is because low DPI is "new" and your fingers still don't quite know what to do; they are just haphazardly moving in the general direction and adjusting after you already start making the movement. You will see what I mean when you try to do the exercises I mentioned, they are a lot more difficult than they sound.

#2: This is normal. As your mouse drifts due to many factors, you will feel the need to move your arm down or upwards depending on the successive movements used the most in a map. As you get better you will find yourself needing to do this less and less.

#3: Grab a steelseries QCK+ mouse pad and pull it to the front edge of your desk. Being a thin pad it does the job better than thick ones so you aren't chaffing your wrist.

Yes, I had the same problems. There is nothing wrong with your technique, precision mouse movement is just very hard to learn because it's all relative.

From the problems you described, the best route for you would have been a gradual decrease, not a direct change from 1200 to 600 DPI.
Topic Starter
Xcrypt
Haha another aim400kg user. I am already using that and almost within top50 on exact aim actually. It works, because the game window is very small so I don't have to make any uncomfortable upward/downward movements. Fast aim never worked out for me. My reflexes suck (240-290ms on that reflex tester thing), and I just can't get any consistency on fast aim (maybe 1 hit in 5-10 circles) so it's hard to train.

Thanks for the advice! I also noticed a lot of mouse users do not put their mouse that far off the border of the table so maybe if I can adjust my playstyle I would get a lot less friction. Going to keep trying at it with 600 dpi for now.
Rewben2
Why do you need to play at a lower DPI? As long as you can move your mouse around accurately, there's no problem. I use 1100 myself (playing with 1366x786 res as well) and if anything I'd make it higher. I know other people that use 4k DPI for games and don't have issues with accuracy.

In my opinion, if you can't reach the borders of your osu area with just moving your wrist comfortably around, the DPI is too low. If you have to move more, your hand will probably get strained a lot faster for no reason.
RaneFire

Rewben2 wrote:

Why do you need to play at a lower DPI?
It's something he decided to do and dates back to another thread discussion he commented in.

Xcrypt wrote:

Haha another aim400kg user. I am already using that and almost within top50 on exact aim actually. It works, because the game window is very small so I don't have to make any uncomfortable upward/downward movements. Fast aim never worked out for me. My reflexes suck (240-290ms on that reflex tester thing), and I just can't get any consistency on fast aim (maybe 1 hit in 5-10 circles) so it's hard to train.
Emphasis on quickly. Fast Aim should get easier. If the window really is too small, then just zoom in with your browser. That's what I do, since the purpose is not only to set a good score.
Topic Starter
Xcrypt
Basically what you just said. But the general idea is to try and increase the area you can comfortably reach so you can have an accuracy increase. Some people play fine with your dpi, some don't. 4k is very excessive though, I don't think that fits anyone (difference between having real accuracy issues and making your aim really good). Also, playing with low dpi feels like more fun. Making bigger movements feels like I am having more interaction with the songs I am playing.
AmaiHachimitsu
Why do you need to play at a lower DPI? As long as you can move your mouse around accurately, there's no problem. I use 1100 myself (playing with 1366x786 res as well) and if anything I'd make it higher.
Lower sensitivity = better aim. Even though you can reach every point using any dpi, lower dpi helps in terms of consistency. You should notice through your experience that it helps if you have enough space to move the mouse around. You'll also be able to notice that there is a small group of extraordinary players in osu! and most, if not all of them, play on medium-low dpi.

I know other people that use 4k DPI for games and don't have issues with accuracy.
Name one pro mouse player, be it fps or osu! or other game which need precise movement and uses 4k dpi.
rzkadi
in other words high dpi got messed up easily, because if you miss even slightest bit for a moment, your cursor will go far away from your actual target. on the other hands, if you use low dpi you can still barely manage to hit the circles even if you didn't hit the center of the circles.

not to mentions if you got some really bad tremor hand, high dpi will rekt you for sure.
Glyph
You could try moving your arm a bit more. Slide it around if possible.
G0r
This is complicated to answer, but I'll try...

I started with very high DPI, such as your old DPI, maybe even the same DPI, if memory serves. I'd say that anything above 1000 can be considered extremely high, and probably unstable for most players. I too wanted to move down to something with more control and stability. The main issue in switching down, however, is that 1200 vs 1100 is a relatively similar play style: you're still using your wrist for most of your movement, and you're probably actually sliding the mouse more with your fingers than your arms. I'd guess that anyone playing at this DPI has to be using a a finger tip grip or claw grip. However, 1200 vs 600 DPI are radically different playstyles. With 600 the majority of your movement is arm movement with wrist movement to back it up, you're probably going to be forced to use a palm grip, or an extremely palmy finger tip grip (not advisable), and you're going to be using totally different muscles than you did with the 1200 DPI. This means that to switch so far down from so high up is going to be extremely difficult on your muscles and your methodology. I'd advise that you gradually move down step by step in 100 or 200 at most intervals of DPI. Do not switch down again until you see yourself getting better results than you used to and on a consistent basis. Your muscles need time to understand what they are adapting to, and you need time to understand how your method of playing needs to change now that the mouse is essentially a whole different creature than it was before.

It can take me many weeks or even many months to drop my DPI when I am playing regularly, i.e. every day or every couple days. I always wait until I feel that there is no possible way to get any better without the control that even lower DPI will give me. If you switch too quickly, then your muscles get confused and you end up losing valuable lessons that you might have learned if you took it slow.

This is my opinion and method as an ex competitive player.

RaneFire wrote:

#3: Grab a steelseries QCK+ mouse pad and pull it to the front edge of your desk. Being a thin pad it does the job better than thick ones so you aren't chaffing your wrist.
QCK+ is a beast.
Topic Starter
Xcrypt
I've got a question for low dpi mice users who use a bit of arm(or arm entirely) to aim. Do you apply some force with your shoulders to make your mouse arm float over your table or do you rest the entire weight of your arm on the table?
AmaiHachimitsu
1st option
Topic Starter
Xcrypt
thx. I notice I play better when I do but then again my shoulder gets really tired after one song... So gonna force myself inte playing with 200 dpi now and build those muscles, raise dpi again in a couple of months because speed might suck xD
TakuMii
For osu!, I plant my forearm on the edge of my table, and use my fingers and/or small arm shifts (or arm rotation) to move the mouse. For other games (mainly FPSes), I use more arm movement, but my QcK+ is smooth enough to let my arm somewhat glide around, so it's not like my arm is completely off the table.
G0r
I don't believe most people actually float their arm while they play palm style. Remember, it's all about your grip style. Moving your arm with a full fingertip style is going to get you small results at best, and moving your arm with a claw grip style will actually ruin your control unless it is done at extremely selective pause times for some reason. You only really need this when you palm grip.

At any rate, I do not float my arm. If I ever had to, then I'd say my desk was far too low. I tend to place some sort of sliding material under my arm to give myself some glide. I know that Aevv, another very good click/x palm grip player used to do the same thing, and I wouldn't be surprised if there are more examples of people who grease their arm, so to speak, by placing something under it.
RaneFire

G0r wrote:

I don't believe most people actually float their arm while they play palm style. Remember, it's all about your grip style. Moving your arm with a full fingertip style is going to get you small results at best, and moving your arm with a claw grip style will actually ruin your control unless it is done at extremely selective pause times for some reason. You only really need this when you palm grip.

At any rate, I do not float my arm. If I ever had to, then I'd say my desk was far too low. I tend to place some sort of sliding material under my arm to give myself some glide. I know that Aevv, another very good click/x palm grip player used to do the same thing, and I wouldn't be surprised if there are more examples of people who grease their arm, so to speak, by placing something under it.
I'm just going to add something, even though it's not directly related to osu!, but is related to mouse grips:

The all-round considered "best" player in the world at the game Quake 3 Defrag uses a claw grip and floats his arm above his pad, with his pinky and ring finger dragging on his mouse pad. He also uses one of the lowest sensitivities among Q3 defrag players, which is probably why it works for him. Needless to say, he has the best mouse control and consistency I have ever seen, and shatters everyone else's records by miles in a relatively short time. To add, he also has insane accuracy with the LG in QL.

I wouldn't ever say something does not work, but the cases are rare and sometimes exceptional.
G0r

RaneFire wrote:

I wouldn't ever say something does not work, but the cases are rare and sometimes exceptional.
I'd really be curious to see how that looks. It conjures up really funny images of a guy doing a sort of "presto-change-o" hand motion over his mouse. I'd be even more interested in knowing what would possess a man to play that way. It must have been a decision that he made while tackling the issue of such a low DPI as 300, but what an awfully unique one!

At any rate, I always know that a comment like this is going to come up whenever I say anything about playstyles, so I thank you for pointing out the unlikeliness of his playstyle, since this is indeed another case of the exception that proves the rule; that is to say that it makes one wonder whether he is really breaking the rule at all!
RaneFire

G0r wrote:

I'd really be curious to see how that looks.
Seems i was mistaken. lol. He didn't use claw in this video, but he told me he did a couple months back.
Topic Starter
Xcrypt
strenx? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S77MJg-v4sY

And I'm also using claw grip with 200 dpi. Palm grip feels unnatural and limits my movement.
RaneFire

Xcrypt wrote:

strenx? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S77MJg-v4sY
Much better example.
chox_old
i have this exact same problem with forearm, since im used to playing by using wrist/fingers only to move mouse it feels abnormal to move arm in vertical motion as i always rested it on table, and as result sometimes i end up with awkward grip if vertical motion is too big
floating the forearm above table feels uncomfortable so i dont really know how i should place it properly
i'll try the edge of table and float both hands maybe it'll do the trick
G0r

RaneFire wrote:

Xcrypt wrote:

strenx? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S77MJg-v4sY
Much better example.

You guys are right that he is claw gripping there, but I see mostly wrist movement. He does move his arm a few times, like I said a player might at selective times while using this style at low DPI, but he's not hovering it, and in fact is leaning his arm downward pulling toward the floor. He's getting away with it because he is lifting his mouse constantly to readjust his view direction in the game. I'd say his AIM is likely based all in his wrist. This is common in FPS type games where a player must spin around quickly, and then aim solidly. It's the same reason why some players use a little acceleration in FPS games like Quake to spin them around faster when they make that flick motion.

Lifting the way he does isn't going to work in osu!. osu! players do lift their mice, especially at low DPI, but it's a more continuous game when the notes are coming at you, so it's more like the aiming part of Quake than the spinning part. You need steady movement the whole time. I think lifting happens in osu! mostly when there is a momentary pause between beats.
RaneFire
Fine aim, following a target precisely and twitching is always done with the wrist, whole-arm-users are never completely using their arm, you just can't get the same precision with it. The wrist is always involved since it's the middle-ground between fingers and arm.

You have 2 choices:
1) Wrist and arm movement.
2) Finger and wrist movement.

Typically, using your arm just means you hardly use your fingers, because you don't need to.
shortpotato
idk, i switched from 1800dpi to 700
didn't need to change playstyle
G0r

RaneFire wrote:

Fine aim, following a target precisely and twitching is always done with the wrist, whole-arm-users are never completely using their arm, you just can't get the same precision with it. The wrist is always involved since it's the middle-ground between fingers and arm.

You have 2 choices:
1) Wrist and arm movement.
2) Finger and wrist movement.

Typically, using your arm just means you hardly use your fingers, because you don't need to.

No argument here. I totally agree with this. Well put, too.

I wonder at the poster above me's play style, though.
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