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posted
bubble~
19:32 spboxer3: 在?
19:32 kanpakyin: 恩
19:32 spboxer3: 等等有事?
19:32 kanpakyin: 不知道...
19:32 spboxer3: 可以IRC看不?
19:32 kanpakyin: 應該可以 0.0
19:33 *spboxer3 is editing [http://osu.ppy.sh/b/322524 Afilia Saga - S.M.L (TV Size) [Futsuu]]
19:33 spboxer3: 00:00:928 (2,17) - 這兩段part的做法不同 我是建議Futsuu作的相同些會更好
19:34 spboxer3: 相同的pattern會讓玩起來更容易讀懂
19:34 kanpakyin: 好把
19:39 spboxer3: 00:36:328 (105) - 這個slider後面接著大圓 其他難度我覺得還OK 可是這最簡單的難度可能會太難 slider減少到00:36:928 - 或許可以解決這樣的問題
19:40 kanpakyin: 不是最簡單啊= =
19:40 kanpakyin: futsuu
19:40 spboxer3: 喔擦 我居然開錯了
19:40 kanpakyin: ....
19:40 spboxer3: 好 因為這是在最上面 我慣性就以為是...>_>
19:41 kanpakyin: 0.0
19:44 *spboxer3 is editing [http://osu.ppy.sh/b/322538 Afilia Saga - S.M.L (TV Size) [Kantan]]
19:44 spboxer3: 00:24:328 (40) -
19:44 spboxer3: 這個不用D?
19:44 spboxer3: 前面兩個小節的開頭都用d這地方不整合一下?
19:45 kanpakyin: K比較合..我覺得
19:45 kanpakyin: 而且k -> K沒這麼難
19:46 spboxer3: 00:35:728 (59,60) - 交換一下? 00:33:928 (56,57,58,59) - 這四個我認為是一體的(從音樂的角度看) 所以用同樣的note會更好
19:47 kanpakyin: 00:36:328 (60) - 加了kat
19:47 kanpakyin: 前面的KAT保留
19:48 spboxer3: 這樣便更難了吧orz...
19:48 kanpakyin: 不會啊= =
19:48 kanpakyin: Kat Kat同一種按法啊
19:48 kanpakyin: 不會更難得
19:49 spboxer3: K k D
19:49 spboxer3: 現在改成這樣不是
19:49 kanpakyin: 不阿
19:49 kanpakyin: D K K d 這樣啊
19:50 kanpakyin: 00:36:328 -
19:50 kanpakyin: 這邊阿
19:52 spboxer3: 我以為你是加上去
19:52 spboxer3: 原來是改成K
19:53 kanpakyin: 0.0恩
19:54 *spboxer3 is editing [http://osu.ppy.sh/b/322428 Afilia Saga - S.M.L (TV Size) [Muzukashii]]
19:54 spboxer3: 00:03:628 (13,14) - 我認為dk會更適合音樂
19:54 spboxer3: 畢竟前面你都用了dk kd這種的擺法 我想應該不會有難度問題
19:54 kanpakyin: 恩好
19:56 spboxer3: 我覺得後頭的三連有點亂阿 感覺比較像各個可以擺的方式都擺過一次...
19:56 kanpakyin: 不阿 = =你開test聽會很舒服的
19:57 spboxer3: 然後00:19:528 (95,96,97,98,99,100,101,102,103) - 前頭這段有三連 可是後頭這段沒有
19:58 kanpakyin: 其實我不想一整part下那麼多3連才決定這邊不放的
19:58 spboxer3: 00:37:378 (187) - 刪掉這個會讓後頭的D更好打 而且打擊音感覺不會這麼雜
19:59 kanpakyin: 好把
20:00 spboxer3: 00:47:128 (246,247,248,249) - kdkk會來的更好 我其實是看歌詞的韻腳來做判斷的 246,248,249這三個點都有押韻 而247的位置明顯和另外三個不同 所以我會這樣建議
20:01 kanpakyin: 好
20:02 spboxer3: 00:56:728 (301,302,303,304) - 那這邊有要考慮嗎? KDDK
20:03 kanpakyin: 這邊還是保留
20:03 spboxer3: 好
20:03 kanpakyin: 因為K K K K屬於同一個水平上
20:03 kanpakyin: pitch
20:03 spboxer3: OK
20:04 spboxer3: 01:07:328 (360,361) - 相較於其他難度 我認為Muzu在這邊還可以更簡單點 所以我會建議刪除 即使後頭有鼓音 但是刪除並不會造成音樂上的不和諧
20:05 kanpakyin: ....其實我覺得kddddddd也難不到那去= =
20:05 kanpakyin: 也沒變速甚麼的
20:05 spboxer3: 嘛 主要是1/3>_>
20:05 spboxer3: 太長的1/3容易打歪
20:05 spboxer3: 不容易打300
20:05 spboxer3: 也就是良
20:06 kanpakyin: 這邊還是堅持保留- -
20:06 spboxer3: 好
20:08 spboxer3: 01:25:528 (441,442,443,444,445,446,447,448,449,450) - 最尾端這樣擺我真心覺得不適合 因為歌曲本身並沒有這樣的鼓音或是歌詞 而且01:25:978 - 到01:26:128 - 不管是鼓或是歌詞都是斷句 你卻把這個連起來了
20:09 kanpakyin: 麻= = 為甚麼我不覺得...
20:09 kanpakyin: 01:25:978 - 這邊開始很明顯有個5連
20:09 kanpakyin: 音樂上
20:10 spboxer3: 難道我們mp3不同= =? 為什麼我沒聽到阿
20:11 kanpakyin: = =
20:11 kanpakyin: 我怎麼聽都有= =
20:11 spboxer3: ...
20:12 spboxer3: 我覺得需要有第三人來聽聽看
20:13 kanpakyin: 0.0
20:13 spboxer3: 我把note移掉 甚麼都沒聽到阿orz...
20:13 spboxer3: 你說的5連是甚麼的5連?
20:14 kanpakyin: 01:25:978 (444,445,446,447,448) -
20:14 spboxer3: 音樂本身有?
20:15 spboxer3: 我的看法是這樣的01:25:528 (441,443,444,445) - 這四個應該是一體 可是現在是01:25:978 (445) - 直接接到下句去了 沒有一點休息的時間
20:16 kanpakyin: 音樂有阿= =
20:16 kanpakyin: O O OOOOO O 這樣的
20:16 kanpakyin: 但是我多加一個note變成了
20:16 kanpakyin: OOO OOOOO O
20:16 kanpakyin: 而已
20:17 spboxer3: 難道是所謂年紀越大聽不見的聲音越多嗎= =
20:17 spboxer3: 我怎麼聽都沒有。。。
20:17 spboxer3: 用25%聽也沒
20:18 kanpakyin: = =
20:18 spboxer3: 我去找Sco來聽聽看
20:18 kanpakyin: 奇怪了= =
20:18 kanpakyin: 果然是sp3老了 (茶~
20:18 spboxer3: 我是認真的說 我真的沒聽到阿orz...=_=
20:20 spboxer3: 算了 這地方先跳過
20:20 spboxer3: 等等看有沒有人能來check
20:21 *spboxer3 is editing [http://osu.ppy.sh/b/321291 Afilia Saga - S.M.L (TV Size) [Oni]]
20:21 spboxer3: 00:36:928 (213,214,215,216,217,218,219) - 這地方飛翔沒有說?
20:22 spboxer3: kkddkkk會更好 和之前說的韻腳同理
20:22 spboxer3: 00:36:328 (207,211,213,217) - 這四個音是這句詞的位置
20:23 kanpakyin: 好
20:28 *spboxer3 is editing [http://osu.ppy.sh/b/321064 Afilia Saga - S.M.L (TV Size) [Inner Oni]]
20:28 spboxer3: 00:36:328 (238,239,240,241,242,243,244,245,246,247,248,249,250,251,252,253,254) -
20:28 spboxer3: 這邊那個三連有點詭異阿 感覺搶了1/4拍
20:29 spboxer3: 畢竟這邊歌詞還是比較重的
20:29 spboxer3: 聽起來就會搶拍
20:29 kanpakyin: 我改了
20:29 kanpakyin: 變成了一大串
20:30 spboxer3: :o 一大串是?
20:31 kanpakyin: 全連在一起了
20:31 spboxer3: 等等上傳在看好了:o
20:32 spboxer3: 01:26:653 (615,616) - 你確定這有良心? BPM200耶
20:33 kanpakyin: 時間點錯了?
20:33 kanpakyin: 這邊是1/2阿
20:33 spboxer3: inner
20:33 spboxer3: 應該沒錯吧
20:33 spboxer3: 還是你前面刪note了?
20:34 kanpakyin: ....
20:34 spboxer3: 01:26:653 -
20:34 spboxer3: 這邊和後面那個D
20:34 kanpakyin: Inner阿 = =
20:34 kanpakyin: 我覺得是可以
20:34 kanpakyin: 好把刪掉了
20:35 spboxer3: 你是刪大圓還是k??
20:36 kanpakyin: 大圓
20:36 spboxer3: 我傾向刪k 不過刪大圓也可
20:39 spboxer3: 01:07:678 - 這條直接改成0.9吧 後面0.85刪了 這樣打起來更順
20:40 spboxer3: 因為0.85那個位置減速的很沒有理由
20:41 kanpakyin: 我1.0 -? 0.85
20:41 kanpakyin: 0.85 -> 0.6
20:41 kanpakyin: 本來我是在01:06:628 - 這邊開始減速的
20:42 spboxer3: 不阿 01:09:928 - 這地方減速沒道理阿
20:43 kanpakyin: 全變成了0.7
20:43 spboxer3: 01:07:528 - 這地方記得別變
20:43 spboxer3: 我來看看0.7會不會覆蓋很嚴重...
20:44 spboxer3: 太嚴重了...
20:44 spboxer3: 會被那個大圓擋住...
20:44 spboxer3: 估計要有ar10的反應能力才能打...
20:45 kanpakyin: 矮油
20:45 kanpakyin: 0.85算
20:45 spboxer3: ok
20:45 spboxer3: 就這樣
20:46 kanpakyin: 我上傳
20:46 spboxer3: 等你傳
20:50 spboxer3: Futsuu 00:27:028 (78) - 這個是K?
20:54 spboxer3: 01:26:428 (239) - K 根據你的kantan這邊是下K 而建議你這邊也下K
20:58 spboxer3: 咦 00:36:328 (238,239,240,241,242,243,244,245,246,247,248,249,250,251,252,253,254) - Inner這段沒改??
posted
I was planning to mod that but since I had to clear my queue... couldn't catch up. fack mi life
posted
You popped it by your own, so I don't have to do it.

[Kantan]

The beginning and some other parts probably won't work well in its current state. You are using a few notes which have in general a larger spacing. This spacing gets shrinked by the SV 1.00 and so it becomes really hard to differ between the 1/1 and 3/4 spacings. That means it becomes really hard to read. Might be even a problem for experienced mappers at the beginning.

E.g. 00:04:378 (6) - you can move to 00:04:528, it works better with the patterns and keep a consistent spacing. Also it is rather questionable to use one kat for an actual k k k k pattern. I think this will confuse the beginner even more.
00:05:728 (8,9,10,11,12,13,14) - This part becomes even harder, you have now different spacings which is hard to be followed due to the note density and the small SV.
01:05:728 (42,43) - This would be okay, vocals are pretty clear which wasn't the case before.


Hint: The less notes and the smaller the SV, the more patterns become hard to read. So, when the SV is higher, you can differ the notes between each other better. (or rather the spacing).

[Futsuu - Muzukahii]

The spread between those two diffs is high.
Futsuu contains mostly 1/1 notes while Muzukashii has complicated 1/2 patterns with additional 1/4 and even a long 1/3. Also the spread becomes smaller / denser in the higher difficulties while in the lower it is pretty high.

I will visualize it for all difficulties for a better comprehension, beginning with Kantan and ending with Inner:






Another thing is that Muzukashii contains Oni patterns on a 200 BPM map:

00:13:528 (61,62,63,64) - Such cases can be accepted, but preferable having a gap between oox patterns since those patterns are considered as hard in Muzukashii. You know, common use are monotonically triplets.
00:25:078 (127,128,129,130,131,132,133,134,135,136,137) - On this BPM it becomes already quite hard.
00:31:978 (160,161,162) - kdd patterns are the "hardest" triplet since the way of hitting them is different to the others, since you have to alternate in a more unlike way.
00:40:228 (199,200,201,202,203,204,205,206) - This can be accepted.
00:51:028 (263,264,265,266,267,268,269,270,271,272,273) - Now you started to combinate various tiplets together. Rather Oni like.
01:06:628 (352,353,354,355,356,357,358,359,360,361) - 1/3 are fine in a Muzukashii, but don't you think this is a bit long for this level...? I would rather suggest not doing this (also don't forget how other people might look at it and copy such patterns -> Muzukashii become harder).
01:25:528 (440,441,442,443,444,445,446,447,448,449) - You used it once, but this is still Oni level. Also having a usage of 5-plets in a map where you didn't use any before is questionable as well.


I wrote much, but I want to convince you mapping a new Muzukashii and rename current one to Oni. That's what I suggest.
To ensure my-self about this move, I asked some Taiko guys for confirmation and they agree that it is rather questionable. Maybe Tasha has something to say about this as well. I also asked some higher BATs about the rule for spreads and the opinion is pretty clear: Spread in map-sets are really important.

Didn't checked the higher diffs yet, but current diffs seem to be fine. Still, you should add an easier Muzu, so you don't have to change your current one.

For now that's all. I will mod it later as whole set again.

Edit: I see right now mingmichael suggested some of these changes as well.
posted
ming comes o/
recheck again as ono 's request


Red ~> unrakable issue, must be changed
Blue ~> highly suggested, consider to use it
Black ~> suggestion, just free to choose it


====================


[ Kantan]

☞ okay~
☞ basicly, i'm agree with Ono's mod about the note spacings (and you use 1.00 for the SV too), it'll make the kantan player read it harder there. for the example like at 00:27:928 (46,47) - ; 00:30:328 (50,51) - ; 00:41:128 (8,9) - (some notes has been talked by ono, so i didn't mention them). well, some suggestions will be added at the Notes box
• add a note (kat) at 00:28:528 - . well, it's too keep the spacing. you use the spacing there 3/4, and it's quite hard for the Kantan player. yeah, i know that you wanted to follow the instrument sound, and it's nice. but, consider for the player whom will play this

• move 00:31:228 - to 00:30:928 - . same as above too the reason. to keep the spacing there.

• move 00:56:278 - to 00:56:128 - and add kat at 00:56:428 - . i know if you wanted follow the vocal and instrument at the red strike. well, it's nice. but, please consider again for the kantan player

• delete 01:24:028 - . well, i saw that you didn't put that note at 01:21:628 - :c so, just be consistent like the previous part



====================


[Futsuu]

☞ okay~
☞ well nothing
• delete 00:45:178 - . there's not any sounds at here :/

• move 00:55:978 - to 00:56:128 - . there's not any reasons to put that at 00:56:128 - , since it doesn't have any sounds there too. and it's quite weird too



====================


[Muzukashii]

☞ okay~
i am agree with Ono. this muzu has Oni patterns basicly. Ono has mentioned it before. well, i will try to give some suggestions for you at the Notes Box
• 00:09:778 (41,42) - delete these notes. well, i know that you want to follow the drums hits there which appear. but, it's really like Oni pattern actually. why do you not use a simple pattern there for this muzu? consider with it

• delete 00:13:678 - ; 00:13:753 - and 00:14:128 - . and change to be don 00:13:978 - . you can see, the notes will be o oo o o. it's better than the previous one that you used (which is like Oni pattern too as well)

• delete this too 00:15:553 -

• delete 00:23:278 - ; 00:23:353 - ; and 00:23:728 - and change 00:23:578 - to be don. same like the second mod. just make a simple pattern for the muzu

• it's quite weird that you followed background sound at 00:24:778 - . move to 00:24:928 - and change to be don. it will follow the vocal sounds better than before, and it'll follow the basic pattern too as well

• delete 00:29:653 - too

00:31:978 - until 00:32:128 - which you used ooo triplet. i and ono have talked about this problem that ooo triplet isn't easy like you said before, "very easy and normally use in muzu diff". please consider it again

• change 00:36:628 - to be kat and delete 00:36:778 - ; 00:37:003 - . it's really weird too use ooo o o ooo o there._. i didn't get why you used it there. you can look at my mod here, it will follow all the vocal sounds better right?

• delete 00:43:453 - . there's not any reason to use triplet there. and add finisher at 00:43:528 -, because the finisher sound comes at here

• delete too 00:47:053 -

• delete 00:51:853 - and 00:52:078 - . and you can see after you delete them, the notes will follow the vocal sounds better too there

• delete 00:53:053 - ; 00:53:953 - ; 01:00:853 - ; 01:02:353 -. the reason same like the previos mods

from 01:06:628 - until 01:07:528 - . well, i have told you before at the lastest mod. but you still ignore me :/ i and Ono has a same argument at here. it's not easy for the muzukashii player. please be consider with the player whom will play this

from 01:25:528 - until 01:26:428 - are same like above too. it's 100% like Oni patterns at there. well, you still ignore me at there, just up to you



=====================


okay just that's all for my mods
sorry, if i just modded Kantan, Futsuu and Muzukashii, because i should go now =~=
i just want to say, i know i am a begginer modder (just 6months) and you just ignored my mods easily, because maybe you think that my mods are not really good for you. okay it's not problem, all mappers have their own mapping style. but, i mention a same thing like Ono said before. be consider with your Muzukashii diff. basicly it has some (not some, but many) Oni patterns there that you used it. if you still don't want to use my Muzukashii mods, well noproblem. BUT, change it's name to be Oni, and you should map a new Muzukashii diff which is easier.

okay that's all from me. goodluck kpy, you can you cann :oops:
posted
>Ono
For kantan diff, I will take a look later but don't expect me to change too much on it. When I mapped the Kantan diff, I was thinking about the music, which meant I mainly focused on music. So, here, I am really reluctant to change any rhythmic pattern in this diff. I know your criteria are based on TNT game but osu!Taiko isn't TNT. Giving more freedom to mapper would be a right manner to go. As for the confusion, I don't really think that would be a problem. Why don't you think 3/4 and 1/1 are hard to distinguish? There is a clear boundary between these notes, which makes you to identify them easily. You should know that confusion of something is a subjective view. But okay, I make a compromise here, I change the sv to 1.1

leave this here first, will check your mod later.

>mingmichael
got the clarification.

Will check the mod later.

mod reply:
>Ono
<Kantan>
-As talked in IRC, did some minor change and adjusted the sv

<Futsuu - Muzukahii>
- All fixed and did some adjustment by myself.

>mingmichael
<Kantan>
00:31:228 - I would like to emphasize the drum sound there, so no change.

<Futsuu>
-All fixed

<Muzukashii>
- Most notes were rearranged. I guess also these problems were fixed.
posted
Recheck. - Mostly suggestions.

[ Futsuu]
00:09:928 (28) - You mapped to the vocal, so maybe you would like to delete this note
00:15:178 - I think moving this note to 00:15:328 would fit more to the vocal.
00:17:128 - And this note could be changed to don finisher to keep your beat consistent (every 4/4 1x don).
00:19:828 - Maybe delete this one as well and change to finisher kat. Not only that you would emphasize the high sounding at this part, you would also bring the vocal mapping to the front.
00:24:778 - move to 00:24:928 (same as bevore)
00:27:628 - Maybe use a don to emphasize the kat-finisher more. - Though, looking at the up coming parts, this might fit better to them.
00:30:028 - don as well...? Yes, the vocalist says "wa", so kat would fit, but after all I belive that the kat-finisher emphasize in this way better when a don appears first.


[ Muzukashii]
Beginning~00:33:928 - You mapped to 1/2, but even though the patterns are not that hard, you should try to enshorter them a little. Though, I gave some suggestions down below, so this might be already enough.

00:01:228 (4,5,6,7,8) - kd k dk seems to fit better here, also it alternates nice with the other patterns.
00:06:028 (23,24,25,26,27) - ^
00:07:528 (29,30,31,32) - k d k d would fit now much better in terms of the songs tones if you changed what I suggested before. And if you did so...
00:08:278 (33,34,35) - k d k might fit here automatically better, also due to the songs tones. It would also have a decent alternate way.
00:09:328 (39) - Maybe don? Not a must, just feeled like having one here.
00:09:628 (40) - kat finisher for the vocal and delete 00:09:778 (41,43) - ? Also due to the vocal, but also to keep the Muzukashii a bit easy. Maybe you won't be able to have good 2/1 breaks, but having 2x 1/1 notes might be enough as well. Dispite of that, 00:10:228 the pattern k k d d k fits in my opinion better when it stands alone, since it emphasizes the vocal in this way.
00:14:278 - Delete this note to keep consistency with 00:11:878 ?
00:16:978 - kat for variation and simplification?
00:19:978 - deletig this note might be nice to have a rise of notes at the upcoming pattern (d k ddkdd kkddkdd). Would fit to the kkddk ddkkddk at 00:22:228, since this is also some kind of a rise.
00:24:328 - don finisher?
00:54:178 - kat might fit better to this vocal?
00:55:228 - d k D ? Also due to vocal but also for alternateing patterns.
01:06:628 - Either have a kat 1/3 stream or a don 1/3 stream. But having one alone standing kat is... well, I wouldn't do so, but it depends of you.
01:15:928 - reverse pattern of 01:14:728 maybe?
01:26:203 - You can delete this note since 01:26:278 is rather an "alone standing vocal" and not connected to the stretched "ne" or what it is.


[Inner Oni]
00:04:678 (22,23,24,25,26) - kd k d k(reverse it) would probably fit better since it fits to the songs tons better.
00:13:828 (79) - Changing to kat here might fit well.
00:14:578 (85,86) - k D ?
00:17:128 - kkkkd ? Would fungate as rise of notes for 00:16:378 but also fit to the vocal and alternate from 00:17:428 to the next kat well.
00:18:178 - don? Also due to alternate but also to emphasize kat-finishers.
00:33:778 - I'm sure it would be better to delete this note. Differ the parts more from each other.
00:36:328 - kkddkkddkkkkddddk should fit better to the vocal and be more simple. To be honest, I don't think the current one fits here well, especially since the vocals are clear defined.
{
00:43:678 - delete
00:44:878 - ^
00:46:078 - ^
} Might work well for emphasizing the vocals.
00:48:478 - Move to 00:48:778, so the previous stream ends more smooth + differ the parts from each other.
00:49:078 and 00:49:153 could be both changed to kat and moved to 00:49:003 so it fits to the vocals again.
01:06:328 - Hm not sure... consider deleting both dons.
01:17:128 ~ 01:24:328 - I'm the opinion you should have 1/1 gas here, at 01:19:378 and 01:21:778 and 01:24:178
01:26:128 - d kkddddk or something similar should be here. I don't know where this odd pattern comes from. This is just a killer at the end of the map if you ask me, without any significant reason for me.
01:17:128 - I like the SV usage here. how about having a kiai again?


My conclusion to this set:

Well, I modded it now more in detail and there are some things you have to explain me, kanpakyin: Is there any reason why you use so many notes in the Inner Oni? From the view of a player I would say: "wow, great map, have to train my stamina" or something like that, but from a view of a mapper I say that you overdone it with many patterns you have. Parts are not clearly defined; everything is mapped in one row and there is just hardly something emphasized in the whole song. Notes dissapear in their own mass/amount.

You have some SV changes, indeed, but that's all. Even though you mapped to the vocal, most patterns still contain notes which are not really needed and which make the pattern longer as it would be actually necessary. For example at 00:43:528 - The vocal and even the forground sound "stops" here, but you still continue mapping it without -for me- any clear reason. Same from 01:12:328 to the end, you map everything in one row, instead of having something like a rise of notes, which would emphasize every part a bit more and give the beatmap at the end the final imposing part.

Maybe that's how some mappers nowadays map I guess, so this is no reason for me to say it is unrankable or anything like that. Might be just me, but I miss some kind of "playing with the patterns"; some kind of... um... a try to give the player some feeling in game play...? Sorry, dunno how to express it at this point.
In short form: I miss emphasized parts.

That about the higher diffs. I don't say they are bad, no. Patterns are so far okay as always, but gaps and etc are missing(what I mentioned above). My advice to you, is to think about this next time.


Now, ... what still worries me really much is the spread in this set. As I thought (and mentioned in PM) before, the muzukashii has been made easier to have a better spread to Futsuu, but due to this, now Muzu - Oni spread suffers of it.

Patterns you used in both difficulties

(Oni) 00:19:528~00:27:028 - 8 seconds, full of 1/2 and 1/4 patterns without any break.
(Muzu) 00:19:528~00:27:028 - 8 seconds which contain mostly easy 1/2 kkddk patterns and 12x 1/1 gaps.
(Oni) Kiai - 1/4 duplets, triplets and five-plets which are even mapped together (00:43:528 ~ 00:48:328)
(Muzukashii) Kiai - 1/2 patterns with man gaps.
00:45:928 -



Muzukashii

Common pattern: 1/2 - o x, o o x x o, x o x, o o x, ...
Hardest pattern: 1/2 d k d d k k k d; 1/2 k d d d k k d; 1/4 ddd d d ddd d; 1/4 d k k kkkkk k k

Oni

Common pattern: 1/4 - oox with addition 5-plets, whole pattern paks with 1/2 + 1/4, ...
Hardest pattern: 1/4 kdddddddddkkddkkd; 00:43:528~00:48:328;

There are some parts which could work, but the kiai is the total Spread-killer with everything it has. We don't talk about little spread issues, this jump is immense. Everywhere 1/4, packed with long 1/2 patterns which are 4 times longer than muzukashii's patterns.
Solution

You could make muzukashii a bit easier by having some 2/1 gaps(this would make the spread to Futsuu a bit better as well) and add a new easier Oni which contains already more 1/2 patterns and some 1/4 tiplets and 5-plets(In this way you can mostly keep the current muzu as it is and save the spread to current Oni).

This migh help you. Comments from me how the Muzu - Oni spread acts. Words in "( )" are suggestions from me, how to make Muzu and Oni interact with the new diff in a better way.

00:00:328~00:09:928 - Oni and Muzu don't have much difference (Muzu needs to be made easier)
00:09:928~00:37:528 - Oni becomes harder than Muzu and the spread becomes big (Muzu needs to be made easier and new diff needed)
00:38:728~01:07:528 - Oni and muzukashii's spread are way too high (a new diff is needed)
01:07:528~01:28:678 - Oni and Muzu become a bit similar again, Oni is a bit harder though (muzu can be made easier + having new diff)

In generall I find this "spread topic" really important, especially after I talked to the higher BATs / Admins about it, who agreed that sets in generall should be well spreaded. Right now I don't think it is, but hey, to be not the bad guy here, I'm going to ask 4 more "Taiko" Bats about this case, so they can agree or disagree to this. If they say it's fine, okay. If not, you should add one more diff between Muzu and Oni - a new easier Oni.

This should really be enough as reason I think. Else I can add everything I saw in the map.
posted
Sorry i'm late... :(
Here is Taiko mod request via In-game


Red : unrankable issue
Purple : strongly recommend
Black : just suggestion

[General]
  1. none~


[ Kantan]
  1. 00:05:128 (8) - try to add finish here? here is more powerful than other parts
  2. 00:22:528 (37) - this note is not really necessary here imo. so remove this?
  3. the drum sound on 00:36:328 (61) - ~ 00:38:728 (4) - is more than 00:33:928 (57) - ~ 00:36:328 (61) - so i suggest you remove 00:34:528 (58,60) - to make different rhythm
  4. 00:46:528 - try to add note here. here is empty



[ Futsuu]
  1. 00:15:178 (43) - move to 00:15:328 - to follow vocal and drum
  2. 00:24:778 (71) - ^
  3. try to remove 00:54:328 (149) - or 00:54:628 (150) - sounds better imo



[ Muzukashii]
  1. 00:04:678 (18) - add finish here? to make more exciting imo
  2. 00:10:078 (43) - try to remove this note as 00:12:328 (54,55) -
  3. 00:44:878 (211) - remove this note to make the same gap with 00:45:928 (217,218) -



[ Oni]
  1. 00:04:678 (18,19) - add finish as i mentioned on muzu
  2. 00:44:878 (268) - remove this note to make a little break



[ Inner Oni]
  1. 00:13:753 (78) - move to 00:13:603 - sounds better imo
  2. 00:37:453 (253,254) - i prefer to use dK here
  3. 00:57:253 (413) - move to 00:57:403 - and 00:57:703 - add note.this is just my opinion :D


That's all~
Good Luck~ :)
posted

qoot8123 wrote:

Sorry i'm late... :(
Here is Taiko mod request via In-game


Red : unrankable issue
Purple : strongly recommend
Black : just suggestion

[General]
  1. none~


[ Kantan]
  1. 00:05:128 (8) - try to add finish here? here is more powerful than other parts //not going to do this as k D (in 1/2)[is too difficult for newbie. /color]
  2. 00:22:528 (37) - this note is not really necessary here imo. so remove this?
  3. the drum sound on 00:36:328 (61) - ~ 00:38:728 (4) - is more than 00:33:928 (57) - ~ 00:36:328 (61) - so i suggest you remove 00:34:528 (58,60) - to make different rhythm //simply I was following the vocal there
  4. 00:46:528 - try to add note here. here is empty not putting any note there can emphasize 00:47:128 -



[ Futsuu]
  1. 00:15:178 (43) - move to 00:15:328 - to follow vocal and drum //I was following the instrument.
  2. 00:24:778 (71) - ^ //^
  3. try to remove 00:54:328 (149) - or 00:54:628 (150) - sounds better imo



[ Muzukashii]
  1. 00:04:678 (18) - add finish here? to make more exciting imo
  2. 00:10:078 (43) - try to remove this note as 00:12:328 (54,55) -
  3. 00:44:878 (211) - remove this note to make the same gap with 00:45:928 (217,218) - //obviously there is a drum sound, so no change.



[ Oni]
  1. 00:04:678 (18,19) - add finish as i mentioned on muzu
  2. 00:44:878 (268) - remove this note to make a little break ///nope, there is a drum sound there.



[ Inner Oni]
  1. 00:13:753 (78) - move to 00:13:603 - sounds better imo
  2. 00:37:453 (253,254) - i prefer to use dK here
  3. 00:57:253 (413) - move to 00:57:403 - and 00:57:703 - add note.this is just my opinion :D//nope, I would like to emphasize the high pitch.
ono: will check your mod soon. I won't change the current spread untill everything is settled down (I will go ahead and ask other taiko bats) as I really satisfy current spread.
posted

OnosakiHito wrote:

Recheck. - Mostly suggestions.

[ Futsuu]
00:09:928 (28) - You mapped to the vocal, so maybe you would like to delete this note //I'm not only mapping to vocal, but also the putch of instrument and drum sound.
00:15:178 - I think moving this note to 00:15:328 would fit more to the vocal. //Exactly this is mapped to instrument.
00:17:128 - And this note could be changed to don finisher to keep your beat consistent (every 4/4 1x don).
00:19:828 - Maybe delete this one as well and change to finisher kat. Not only that you would emphasize the high sounding at this part, you would also bring the vocal mapping to the front. //I don;t see any reason to do this. I only put finisher on notes when there is any strong beat or down beat.
00:24:778 - move to 00:24:928 (same as bevore) //same
00:27:628 - Maybe use a don to emphasize the kat-finisher more. - Though, looking at the up coming parts, this might fit better to them.
00:30:028 - don as well...? Yes, the vocalist says "wa", so kat would fit, but after all I belive that the kat-finisher emphasize in this way better when a don appears first.


[ Muzukashii]
Beginning~00:33:928 - You mapped to 1/2, but even though the patterns are not that hard, you should try to enshorter them a little. Though, I gave some suggestions down below, so this might be already enough. //The length of 1/2 pattern are not more than 5. I can't shorten that anymore in order to keep the consistency of the pattern.

00:01:228 (4,5,6,7,8) - kd k dk seems to fit better here, also it alternates nice with the other patterns. //00:01:378 (5,6,7) - these three notes are on the same pitch, which is higher than 00:01:228 (4) - . That's why I put a kat there.
00:06:028 (23,24,25,26,27) - ^ //^
00:07:528 (29,30,31,32) - k d k d would fit now much better in terms of the songs tones if you changed what I suggested before. And if you did so...
00:08:278 (33,34,35) - k d k might fit here automatically better, also due to the songs tones. It would also have a decent alternate way.
00:09:328 (39) - Maybe don? Not a must, just feeled like having one here. //again, I'm following the pitch here.
00:09:628 (40) - kat finisher for the vocal and delete 00:09:778 (41,43) - ? Also due to the vocal, but also to keep the Muzukashii a bit easy. Maybe you won't be able to have good 2/1 breaks, but having 2x 1/1 notes might be enough as well. Dispite of that, 00:10:228 the pattern k k d d k fits in my opinion better when it stands alone, since it emphasizes the vocal in this way. //I don't want to place a finisher on the place which doesn't have strong beat.
00:14:278 - Delete this note to keep consistency with 00:11:878 ?
00:16:978 - kat for variation and simplification? //nope, as to follow the drum there.
00:19:978 - deletig this note might be nice to have a rise of notes at the upcoming pattern (d k ddkdd kkddkdd). Would fit to the kkddk ddkkddk at 00:22:228, since this is also some kind of a rise.
00:24:328 - don finisher?
00:54:178 - kat might fit better to this vocal?
00:55:228 - d k D ? Also due to vocal but also for alternateing patterns. //00:55:378 - The pitch here is higher than 00:55:228 - and 00:55:528 (269) - . So I put a kat here.
01:06:628 - Either have a kat 1/3 stream or a don 1/3 stream. But having one alone standing kat is... well, I wouldn't do so, but it depends of you.
//I insist that I won't change this as it is fair enough for muzu.
01:15:928 - reverse pattern of 01:14:728 maybe? //reverse pattern doesn't fit the music imo
01:26:203 - You can delete this note since 01:26:278 is rather an "alone standing vocal" and not connected to the stretched "ne" or what it is. //deleting that note sounds weird to me...


[Inner Oni]
00:04:678 (22,23,24,25,26) - kd k d k(reverse it) would probably fit better since it fits to the songs tons better. //nope, I don't think so, I currently placed the notes to follow the pitch.
00:13:828 (79) - Changing to kat here might fit well. //not really, if you hear more carefully, you could notice the instrument sound are more obvious at 00:13:978 -
00:14:578 (85,86) - k D ?
00:17:128 - kkkkd ? Would fungate as rise of notes for 00:16:378 but also fit to the vocal and alternate from 00:17:428 to the next kat well. //changed to ddddk instead in order to fit the pitch.
00:18:178 - don? Also due to alternate but also to emphasize kat-finishers. //still in high pitch part, so keep using kat here.
00:33:778 - I'm sure it would be better to delete this note. Differ the parts more from each other. //I don't want to remove this note as there is drum sound and I simply don;t want to miss out any part of components of music.
00:36:328 - kkddkkddkkkkddddk should fit better to the vocal and be more simple. To be honest, I don't think the current one fits here well, especially since the vocals are clear defined. //Probably you should hear to the music more and more carefully, the kat sound I placed in this stream are actually high pitch part and the don sound are relatively low pitch.
{
00:43:678 - delete
00:44:878 - ^ //There is a drum sound.
00:46:078 - ^ //^
} Might work well for emphasizing the vocals.
00:48:478 - Move to 00:48:778, so the previous stream ends more smooth + differ the parts from each other.
00:49:078 and 00:49:153 could be both changed to kat and moved to 00:49:003 so it fits to the vocals again. //Sorry but I can't see any reason that I have to change this to kat as the variation of pitch there is not conspicious.
01:06:328 - Hm not sure... consider deleting both dons. //nope, I wanted to follow the drum sound here.
01:17:128 ~ 01:24:328 - I'm the opinion you should have 1/1 gas here, at 01:19:378 and 01:21:778 and 01:24:178 //To be honest, I made the part like this on purpose in order to make a good coordination with the big notes and small notes.
01:26:128 - d kkddddk or something similar should be here. I don't know where this odd pattern comes from. This is just a killer at the end of the map if you ask me, without any significant reason for me. //changed to another pattern.
01:17:128 - I like the SV usage here. how about having a kiai again?


My conclusion to this set:

Well, I modded it now more in detail and there are some things you have to explain me, kanpakyin: Is there any reason why you use so many notes in the Inner Oni? From the view of a player I would say: "wow, great map, have to train my stamina" or something like that, but from a view of a mapper I say that you overdone it with many patterns you have. Parts are not clearly defined; everything is mapped in one row and there is just hardly something emphasized in the whole song. Notes dissapear in their own mass/amount.

//To be honest, why are we going to map a map? For what? Without a doubt, it is for player. While mapping, we should take player in our first consideration, and this is what I map for. Who will play the map eventually? It is player, so when players think that this is a good map, then it is. In this map, I think I have struck a great balance between playability and map itself. All notes feel the music and it flows well (I found quite a lot testplayers.) I actually didn't see the problem you mentioned.

You have some SV changes, indeed, but that's all. Even though you mapped to the vocal, most patterns still contain notes which are not really needed and which make the pattern longer as it would be actually necessary. For example at 00:43:528 - The vocal and even the forground sound "stops" here, but you still continue mapping it without -for me- any clear reason. Same from 01:12:328 to the end, you map everything in one row, instead of having something like a rise of notes, which would emphasize every part a bit more and give the beatmap at the end the final imposing part.

//This was done intentionally as I said it before. I would like to make a progressive increasing SV from muzu to inner oni. Besides this, you said that I mapped to vocal, this was only partially correct. I mapped to vocal as well as drum. You could hear this easily, that's why the parts you mentioned might have a note there.

Maybe that's how some mappers nowadays map I guess, so this is no reason for me to say it is unrankable or anything like that. Might be just me, but I miss some kind of "playing with the patterns"; some kind of... um... a try to give the player some feeling in game play...? Sorry, dunno how to express it at this point.
In short form: I miss emphasized parts.

That about the higher diffs. I don't say they are bad, no. Patterns are so far okay as always, but gaps and etc are missing(what I mentioned above). My advice to you, is to think about this next time.
//Gap thing has been solved in disscussion, I guess.


Now, ... what still worries me really much is the spread in this set. As I thought (and mentioned in PM) before, the muzukashii has been made easier to have a better spread to Futsuu, but due to this, now Muzu - Oni spread suffers of it.

Patterns you used in both difficulties

(Oni) 00:19:528~00:27:028 - 8 seconds, full of 1/2 and 1/4 patterns without any break.
(Muzu) 00:19:528~00:27:028 - 8 seconds which contain mostly easy 1/2 kkddk patterns and 12x 1/1 gaps.
(Oni) Kiai - 1/4 duplets, triplets and five-plets which are even mapped together (00:43:528 ~ 00:48:328)
(Muzukashii) Kiai - 1/2 patterns with man gaps.
00:45:928 -



Muzukashii

Common pattern: 1/2 - o x, o o x x o, x o x, o o x, ...
Hardest pattern: 1/2 d k d d k k k d; 1/2 k d d d k k d; 1/4 ddd d d ddd d; 1/4 d k k kkkkk k k

Oni

Common pattern: 1/4 - oox with addition 5-plets, whole pattern paks with 1/2 + 1/4, ...
Hardest pattern: 1/4 kdddddddddkkddkkd; 00:43:528~00:48:328;

There are some parts which could work, but the kiai is the total Spread-killer with everything it has. We don't talk about little spread issues, this jump is immense. Everywhere 1/4, packed with long 1/2 patterns which are 4 times longer than muzukashii's patterns.
Solution

You could make muzukashii a bit easier by having some 2/1 gaps(this would make the spread to Futsuu a bit better as well) and add a new easier Oni which contains already more 1/2 patterns and some 1/4 tiplets and 5-plets(In this way you can mostly keep the current muzu as it is and save the spread to current Oni).

This migh help you. Comments from me how the Muzu - Oni spread acts. Words in "( )" are suggestions from me, how to make Muzu and Oni interact with the new diff in a better way.

00:00:328~00:09:928 - Oni and Muzu don't have much difference (Muzu needs to be made easier)
00:09:928~00:37:528 - Oni becomes harder than Muzu and the spread becomes big (Muzu needs to be made easier and new diff needed)
00:38:728~01:07:528 - Oni and muzukashii's spread are way too high (a new diff is needed)
01:07:528~01:28:678 - Oni and Muzu become a bit similar again, Oni is a bit harder though (muzu can be made easier + having new diff)

In generall I find this "spread topic" really important, especially after I talked to the higher BATs / Admins about it, who agreed that sets in generall should be well spreaded. Right now I don't think it is, but hey, to be not the bad guy here, I'm going to ask 4 more "Taiko" Bats about this case, so they can agree or disagree to this. If they say it's fine, okay. If not, you should add one more diff between Muzu and Oni - a new easier Oni.

This should really be enough as reason I think. Else I can add everything I saw in the map. //All about difficulty spread has been discussed.
Will check others later.
posted
Tags should be"俺の脳内選択肢が、学園ラブコメを全力で邪魔している"

把青春换成学园,我后来改过online tags
posted
self-popped by mapper
rechecked

Re-bubbled
posted
Well, seems like people like to overwhelm me nowadays. Whatever.
posted

OnosakiHito wrote:

Well, seems like people like to overwhelm me nowadays. Whatever.
I've talked to kpy in-game and he once again claimed the diff spread is fine. Since the spread isn't that unacceptable, I think I'll let this go

Improve some minor note arrangements in kantan, also improved the consistency of muzu
These changes are minor so I believe that this can be directly ranked

Part of savelog is here for reference ( The 1st half is lost due to BSOD x_x )
21:35 aabc271: bsod so eggpain
21:35 kanpakyin: orz
21:35 aabc271: It's like a screamer implemented in os D:
21:35 kanpakyin: I feel better with x1.0 wor...since i have to consider the change at 01:07:528 -
21:36 aabc271: You can consider using x1.0 starting from 01:07:828 -
21:36 kanpakyin: but start at there sounds weird for me wor - -
21:37 kanpakyin: i prefer to follow the music
21:37 aabc271: x1.1 for kiai, that's a kind of following music too
21:37 aabc271: Dunno why so many people are so concerned about that specific point of kiai start / end, but whatever
21:37 aabc271: Your choice
21:38 kanpakyin: ._.
21:38 aabc271: For me, the points are both start and end of a section, so no need to force-use a speed
21:38 kanpakyin: anyway would like to keep that ;w;
21:39 aabc271: Alright then ;w;
21:42 aabc271: Diff spread inconsistency can be seen, but you said "All about difficulty spread has been discussed.", so I don't care (?)
21:42 kanpakyin: yea!
21:42 aabc271: 237 -> 420 ( +77% ). Remember this is your choice ~_~
21:43 kanpakyin: yea
21:43 aabc271: You eggpain those average-muzu level players (slap
21:43 aabc271: But I don't think you'll make another diff
21:43 aabc271: So never mind
21:45 aabc271: Kantan 00:13:228 (21) - Moving this to 00:13:528 - could be more intuitive ?
21:45 aabc271: Also for consistency with 00:23:128 -
21:46 kanpakyin: ok
21:47 aabc271: 01:06:628 - Consider adding a note ?
21:47 aabc271: Kantan's patterns look so fake or sth ? lol
21:48 aabc271: Also not so consistent o.O
21:49 kanpakyin: ok
21:49 kanpakyin: don
21:49 aabc271: 00:56:128 - ~ 00:57:928 - I wonder if you wanna make this section more similar to 00:45:928 - ?
21:51 kanpakyin: fixed sth
21:51 aabc271: 01:13:228 (56,57,58) - I guess following the main vocal is more intuitive ?
21:52 aabc271: I mean, sth like this http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/1150350
21:56 kanpakyin: fixed in my own way
21:56 aabc271: ok
21:57 aabc271: Inconsistent spinner ending time in kantan ?
21:58 aabc271: Other diffs : 01:28:678 - end
22:01 kanpakyin: okok
22:01 kanpakyin: fixed
22:01 aabc271: Double-checking other diffs...
22:02 aabc271: Muzu - 00:47:128 (229,230,231,232,233) - All finishes ? Because of (275~279). Optional though
22:03 kanpakyin: okok
22:13 aabc271: The diffs should be fine
22:13 aabc271: Now checking the metadata stuff
22:13 kanpakyin: I upload the diffs then
22:13 aabc271: TV size is allowed again ?
22:13 kanpakyin: yes
22:13 aabc271: Why sometimes no sometimes yes = ="
22:14 kanpakyin: = =
22:15 kanpakyin: :D god knows
22:15 kanpakyin: updated
22:15 aabc271: o.O
22:15 aabc271: Checking the romanised title and stuff, wait..
22:21 aabc271: Only inner oni -> Widescreen storyboard support not ticked ?
22:21 aabc271: Not sure if this affects taiko at all, but well
22:23 kanpakyin: ok
22:23 kanpakyin: fixed for consistency
22:25 aabc271: ok then... Title seems ok because I see several different versions on the internet, but this is same as ranked version
22:25 aabc271: I think everything should be ready now
22:26 kanpakyin: yeah
22:26 kanpakyin: w
22:26 kanpakyin: 40 ranked and mission complete


Checked all diffs and I think this mapset should be ready for a rank, so here's your heart :)

Ranked ~
posted
Gratzz!! Kanpayakin!!^^
posted
恭喜
posted
Congrats KPY! :3
posted
Nice map but I really think you should of used a BG offset :P
posted
恭喜~ :)
posted
Thanks mina~ ><
posted
NouKome ♥ Love it gz :3
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