The only difference is the minimum force required to actuate blues is not consistent because of the bump, it can vary within 10g of force depending on how the bump in the switch reacts. When you are looking at optimal switches, things like that come into play. Challenging my own personal streaming skill doesn't change that. You can choose to ignore it and act like it doesn't matter, but it does. I understand personal pride takes precedence over facts in internet discussion, especially on this board, but anyone who has used both blues and reds knows the difference in consistency and feel. It's kind of silly to bring in skill when comparing switches. Skill is a relative and fluctuating part of the equation so it can't be used for accurate comparison. If skill were brought in, it wouldn't matter what switches you use at all if you were the skill level of WWW or Cookiezi. The point is to compare performance differences at the same skill level, which is easiest to do when comparing the differences in your own gameplay, which I did. In my case, the difference was a significant improvement in the switch from blues to reds. I credit that to the physical makeup and functionality of reds vs. blues.f i z i k wrote:
but browns are literally doing the exact same thing and the bump tells you when to stopXayne wrote:
too long technical blahblah
honestly I think you just lack good enough streaming qualities to even judge, you are vastly overrating the effects of such small changes. also everyone said that learning to use the minimum force required to press a key, however that is not dependent on switch but on technique which you won't learn in 1 day by changing your keyboard
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Keyboard switch types mx blue vs mx red
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Xayne, I'm not going to into any technical details with you. I learned from past experience that it is a pointless exercise. Why do you think I went for a sour case of sarcasm instead?
Rather, I will just agree with fizik on this:
Rather, I will just agree with fizik on this:
Just accept it.f i z i k wrote:
honestly I think you just lack good enough streaming qualities to even judge, you are vastly overrating the effects of such small changes.
Blacks do the same as red, just heavier - don't you think they can be the best too? The only difference is the force required then, however do you think this even matters when talking about 50 presses?Xayne wrote:
The only difference is the minimum force required to actuate blues is not consistent because of the bump, it can vary within 10g of force depending on how the bump in the switch reacts.
Skill is relevant when judging things like that. I can't map 260BPM maps for example, since I don't have any experience in playing those maps. So I can't even testplay them and rate them if they're well-made or not, experience = skill in this case. You can't stream well enough to judge things well enough - if all you can do is mash, you can mash 30BPM faster with any switch. I don't know how good you are and it's just an assumption but I think I trust jesse's opinion over yours if it's about something mechanical like this, even considering facts. Besides that we're arguing about something of subjective nature here, since the keyboard is like 10% of your gameplay at best, your fingers do 90% of the work. [/quote]Xayne wrote:
Challenging my own personal streaming skill doesn't change that. You can choose to ignore it and act like it doesn't matter, but it does. I understand personal pride takes precedence over facts in internet discussion, especially on this board, but anyone who has used both blues and reds knows the difference in consistency and feel. It's kind of silly to bring in skill when comparing switches.
These stream testing tools are bullshit aswell, you can just hold a key down or mash like crazy. Doesn't mean you can "stream" if you can mash buttons.Xayne wrote:
[..]which is easiest to do when comparing the differences in your own gameplay, which I did. In my case, the difference was a significant improvement in the switch from blues to reds. I credit that to the physical makeup and functionality of reds vs. blues.
Also I don't wanna post more from here, I am not gonna google some physical laws and do super-geek math on how the actuation saves you 0.000000x seconds and how 15g per click less have an influence on twitching your muscle fibres - it's a fucking game about clicking circles, just press them.
In other words you have no facts to support your claim. You have no technical details because there aren't any to dispute my point. It's not hard to tell when a post with facts and figures is responded to with sarcasm, opinions, and personal jabs. In any case, I don't do it to prove someone wrong or boost some kind of pride. The whole point is to present the community with facts that will help them make an informed decision, which is why I leave variables that aren't under their control out of my points. We're talking about extreme optimization of performance. That means any difference, no matter how small, matters. Which is why when talking about which switches to use, you talk about the switches and the switches only, because that is the one factor that will always change with zero variables. Skill is relative and different for every person. So using that as a point when comparing switches is completely irrelevant. Feel free to respond with sarcasm all you want, your mind is made. My intention is to help people who haven't researched and may not know the differences between switches.RaneFire wrote:
Xayne, I'm not going to into any technical details with you. I learned from past experience that it is a pointless exercise. Why do you think I went for a sour case of sarcasm instead?
Rather, I will just agree with fizik on this:Just accept it.f i z i k wrote:
honestly I think you just lack good enough streaming qualities to even judge, you are vastly overrating the effects of such small changes.
This was about reds vs. blues exclusively. But if you want to bring blacks in, then yes. I would choose blacks over blues for the same reason I would choose reds over blues. The reds vs. blacks comes down to personal preference. If your fingers can handle blacks better than reds, more power to you, if not, then obviously you would choose reds. In all honesty the differences between reds vs. blacks aren't enough to warrant fretting over getting one or the other unless you have considerably weak fingers. At the core, they're both the same.f i z i k wrote:
Blacks do the same as red, just heavier - don't you think they can be the best too? The only difference is the force required then, however do you think this even matters when talking about 50 presses?Xayne wrote:
The only difference is the minimum force required to actuate blues is not consistent because of the bump, it can vary within 10g of force depending on how the bump in the switch reacts.
I would disagree since I found that playing osu on different computers with different keyboards was a whole different experience and I found my hand got tired much more easily or I couldn't tap/stream as fast &c.f i z i k wrote:
Besides that we're arguing about something of subjective nature here, since the keyboard is like 10% of your gameplay at best, your fingers do 90% of the work.
Change your seating posture on where you play usually, and you'll notice huge difference too. Change the keyboard/tablets position etc. and play around with it, when I play at other places I have to get used to different seat/desk height tooKheldragar wrote:
I would disagree since I found that playing osu on different computers with different keyboards was a whole different experience and I found my hand got tired much more easily or I couldn't tap/stream as fast &c.
I am having the same problem as you, except the two switches I am comparing is Browns and Blues. A lot of people say and according to fact, that the Reds or the Browns require 45g of actuation force, which makes the keys relatively easier to press down. The Blues are just 5g over the Reds and Browns, at 50g. I want to get the Blues because I love the sound of the tactile feedback and the clickiness but, Reds and/or Browns seem more reliable for osu!. I want to have a good switch to play osu! with, I just don't want to give up the bump in the Blues. D:
ZenithPhantasm
You could try thisHolyShadowLink wrote:
I am having the same problem as you, except the two switches I am comparing is Browns and Blues. A lot of people say and according to fact, that the Reds or the Browns require 45g of actuation force, which makes the keys relatively easier to press down. The Blues are just 5g over the Reds and Browns, at 50g. I want to get the Blues because I love the sound of the tactile feedback and the clickiness but, Reds and/or Browns seem more reliable for osu!. I want to have a good switch to play osu! with, I just don't want to give up the bump in the Blues. D:
Try browns or blacks?
I am no mech user
But I think reds are better because it's lighter and yet easy to doubletap / tripletap with one finger
If you think blues are better... why do we gonna stop you ?
But I think reds are better because it's lighter and yet easy to doubletap / tripletap with one finger
If you think blues are better... why do we gonna stop you ?
blues have a further reset point or in different words. the distance between actuation and reset point is bigger than that of red switches.GoldenWolf wrote:
you do know you don't have to fully bottom out with blues either right?[timefrozen] wrote:
i played with both, red and blues, and for me reds are better because you dont have to press them down completely, you can just tap them, that makes streaming easier
i also have both. same keyboard twice. one with mx reds and another one with blues. i know of some players preferring to bottom out in any case so it might not matter for everyone. i liked the reds over the blues and sticked to them.
I usually use my Cherry MX Blues for 4*s but when I do 5*s and above I use my Cherry MX Reds, so it's all preference-based. 
I think he doesn't care already.
blues are fun for typing
i guess that's it
i guess that's it
Cherry MX Blues - awesome for coding / typing (love them), but definitely not for osu!. Two of my keys already double click, they wear out fast.
I recommend Cherry MX Reds - Not so fun for typing (no satisfying feedback) as blues, but damn good for osu! and gaming in general.
I recommend Cherry MX Reds - Not so fun for typing (no satisfying feedback) as blues, but damn good for osu! and gaming in general.
Yeah me actually too it's too loudwait99 wrote:
The clicking of blues pisses me off.
My pc has an option where i can make me hera myself in my headphones. thus being able to hear my obnoxious ass keyboard.
dis necro
I like browns but i dont have mech so..
I like browns but i dont have mech so..
best quote on this thread even tho it's not the best for osuPizzicato wrote:
blues. fuck haters
old ass fucking post but, man of culture who owns a model mEspionage724 wrote:
Why?buny wrote:
blues are terrible for osu
I use blue switches, and can't say they're too bad at all. I have nothing to compare to though aside from a rubber-dome keyboard, and an IBM Model M (both were fine for me as well with osu!).
Haven't tried red, brown, black, or whatever other colors exist for mechanical switches.
If you can, find a way to try the switches before purchase though. I personally don't mind a loud clicky keyboard (loud typing gives the illusion of super-fast typing to others :p) but some might be thrown off due to bottoming-out and the actual point of key registering.
Given that reds require 45g actuation force compared to blues' 60g, reds keys take less force to input. For pros, that means more stamina.
There are switches with either less force or >2mm actuation points, like the mx grey and qs1. I don't know if they're still out there tho.
There are switches with either less force or >2mm actuation points, like the mx grey and qs1. I don't know if they're still out there tho.
E m i
but muscles responsible for finger extension are weaker than muscles responsible for finger flexion and countless reports indicate that they are the point of pain/burn/exhaustion so
this statement i'm not fully certain is truly bullshit but it is bullshit so fardeemoplayer47 wrote:
Given that reds require 45g actuation force compared to blues' 60g, reds keys take less force to input. For pros, that means more stamina.