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Intentionally playing songs too hard for you?

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34
Fuh
11 posts
Joined April 2013
Topic Starter
Fuh
I'm a relatively new Osu player, i'd like to say.
I played for almost half a year on and off, but recently got back into it.

Anyway, I'm not new to rhythm games at all.
That being said, I have a problem with being picky with songs and the songs that I do genuinely like (and spam "retry" on) are usually too hard for me.
Some examples would be; https://osu.ppy.sh/s/22571 and https://osu.ppy.sh/s/27697

With that being said, there are certain "Insane" difficulty songs I can play but they don't seem like much compared to the ones above. I've seen a vast improvement in my skill as an Osu player, but I feel like at this rate it'll take years on years of practice to even pass some songs like those. I'm one of those people who can only enjoy songs that are a challenge.

So my question is; is intentionally playing songs that are too hard for you bad for your development as a player?
Is there anything I can do to get better at this so I can play songs like that? Every song I do end up liking either is too hard or too easy, I can't find a middle ground. But I really want to learn them.


Edit: Excuse the language but this is a little video I made somewhat explaining how much I want to play these songs but I'm not good enough.
NTRSOUND
13 posts
Joined November 2012
NTRSOUND
First of all you should play what you want. If playing difficult songs is fun there's no reason to stop (rip your accuracy tho).

I used to only play songs that are too difficult for me, but lately I've found that playing a variety of difficulties the most helpful. If you only spam hard songs you will probably never touch any of the mods and this will hamper your ability to get high ranks. Also your accuracy and stability is easier to hone on easier diffs. Knowing how to keep calm is an important skill required to SS and FC maps. Still playing very hard maps can help your reading ability more so I still think that it has it's place if you want to improve.

I wouldn't recommend spamming the same maps over and over though; It only led me to frustration after retrying like 8+ times. Just use Edit mode to practice problem parts using the test function or play the song on Half Time/No Fail.
Last edited by NTRSOUND , edited 1 time in total.
GoldenWolf
2,983 posts
Joined May 2012
GoldenWolf
If you can't pass the first 10 seconds of a map, don't retry and play something easier. You won't improve at all by playing something you can't read/don't understand, it'll only lead to frustration and bad habits (spamming, etc)
On the example on your video, there are easier diff (Easy, Normal, Hard), play one of these instead of playing the Insane.
So yeah, it is bad to play maps that are way too hard for you, the best way to improve is by playing maps that are only slightly above your level and try getting the highest acc+combo on them.

There is something you can do to play maps like that; Practice. A lot.
And yeah it might take months/years to be able to play some Insanes, depends on how much you play ofc.
Some "easy" Insanes are playable after a few months/weeks, they're usually below 140bpm (they're easy only because they're really slow tho)
Caionix1313
20 posts
Joined June 2013
Caionix1313
I sort of alternate between those two playstyles to improve. I usually try to FC a song that I can do every day, and then play a few songs that I definitely can't FC but I can get over 85% accuracy on. That pretty much says to me that i'm not spamming, but the song isn't too easy for me.
Weed
506 posts
Joined May 2013
Weed
Personally I played 2 insane songs over and over, alternating once in a while to hard songs that I could do. That's how I learned to do insane songs, but it was frustrating. If you feel like you're not improving go play songs you can currently play and try to get decent accuracy on them. While searching for a song to challenge yourself I would recommend typing something like ar=7 in the search field to see what approach rate (rate at which the hit circle becomes smaller) you can currently do. Most insanes are ar=9, and that might be a little high for you.

Cheers!
Tekklorn
233 posts
Joined November 2012
Tekklorn
Do what's fun to you. No matter what you do in Osu as long as you strive to improve, you will. From playing easy songs and getting higher and higher accuracies until you get your first SS for example to playing insane maps over and over until you finally get to the 30 second mark, both of these are milestones and should be seen as such. As long as you did something that you couldn't do the day before, you have already improved.
Lycanth_old
29 posts
Joined July 2013
Lycanth_old

NTRRR wrote:

First of all you should play what you want. If playing difficult songs is fun there's no reason to stop (rip your accuracy tho).
Playing stuff you are absolutely terrible at, is probably no fun though (I remember trying to play the big black after playing for half a month or so.. got like 19% accuracy - that was no fun at all as I was just spamming xz as fast as i could anyway while moving my cursor...)



Imo playing maps that are slightly above your level is the most reasonable way to improve. Using NF on maps where you can only get 60-70% accuracy because you aren't able to react fast enough/move your cursor fast enough should be okay as well, as long as you don't play those all the time.(this is what i mostly did - you will be able to pass maps faster imo, but doing so might reduce your accuracy/consistency, although i doubt there is anyone out there who tried "both" methods and can truly tell which one is better)

Also don't overdo it when using NF. If you are spamming high bpm stuff you might hurt yourself like I did. I played too many high bpm maps and singletapped really hard at first. Due to that my singletap finger is (currently) very weak and I had to take a break from playing osu! and music instruments in order to allow it to recuperate. Considering the fact that I'm a noob who has only played insanes for one or two months, getting something that might be RSI, even if it is just one finger, is damn bad and a really frustrating experience. Seriously, don't overdo it.
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny

Lycanth wrote:

NTRRR wrote:

First of all you should play what you want. If playing difficult songs is fun there's no reason to stop (rip your accuracy tho).
Playing stuff you are absolutely terrible at, is probably no fun though (I remember trying to play the big black after playing for half a month or so.. got like 19% accuracy - that was no fun at all as I was just spamming xz as fast as i could anyway while moving my cursor...)
getting 19% acc is fun
Pettanko
246 posts
Joined September 2012
Pettanko
spam big black, airman, and all val0108 maps if you wanna be pro fast
Icyteru
535 posts
Joined August 2011
Icyteru

Pettanko wrote:

spam big black, airman, and all val0108 maps if you wanna be pro fast
spam double time hidden on hards if you wanna be "pro" fast
GoldenWolf
2,983 posts
Joined May 2012
GoldenWolf

[AirCoN] wrote:

spam double time hidden on hards if you wanna be "pro" have a high rank fast
Illus
44 posts
Joined June 2013
Illus

Pettanko wrote:

spam big black, airman, and all val0108 maps if you wanna be pro fast
At least most val0108 maps don't use ridiculous ar10. (yeah, I can't read it yet <.<)


On topic though: I think playing too hard maps is really fun and rewarding, if you know what's going on and don't spam your x/z mindlessly. You'll probably learn the most when you play maps you get 70-85% on. (In NF, most likely)
As some others stated, your accuracy will not improve really fast, and neither will you get rid of your nervousness before SSing a song. But it's not like you'll be hopeless. Recently, my accuracy magically improved to the point where I got A/S-Ranks (~95%) on quite a few insanes without ever practicing it specifically.

On a side note, if you're alternating (with your fingers while playing), I'd recommend playing high bpm maps since it's almost the only way to challenge your fingers and make them faster. They won't get hurt so easily, neither.

In the end, however, it's all your choice. Do whatever is fun for you, and not what's fun for me.
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny

[AirCoN] wrote:

Pettanko wrote:

spam big black, airman, and all val0108 maps if you wanna be pro fast
spam double time hidden on hards if you wanna be "pro" fast
the only way to get a high rank with dt hd hard is to get in the top 5 lol, stop acting like it's not an achievement
DJAlex
28 posts
Joined May 2013
DJAlex
Just play whatever you want.

BTW, don't stop tackling things that go above your skill level, and specially:
SPOILER
"Play things that you like the most. Go again to those maps you couldn't FC way before, and tell them 'Who's Boss'."

Note: Edited for fixing format. Sorry~
Martinawa
105 posts
Joined December 2010
Martinawa

GoldenWolf wrote:

You won't improve at all by playing something you can't read
This.

Maps for me are fun as long as I can read them, regardless of their difficulty. I use to play maps that I can't pass only because they are fun to read and play, (e. g. some val0108 maps or Renard maps). Slowly I can get better results and eventually I pass them, and only improving in them makes me feel good so...

Maybe is not that bad to play songs that you can't pass. Another thing is trying to play maps you can't read.
TehFabled_old
9 posts
Joined January 2013
TehFabled_old
As many have said, if you can't read it don't play it. However, it is that much more satisfying when you go back to a hard song that stumped you in your starting days, and ace it.
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny

TehFabled wrote:

As many have said, if you can't read it don't play it. However, it is that much more satisfying when you go back to a hard song that stumped you in your starting days, and ace it.
how would you read higher ars then?

sometimes to improve you need to throw yourself in the water
Bites
185 posts
Joined June 2012
Bites
i've always played maps that are waaaaay harder than i know i can do, and now i can pass pretty much everything except freedom dive with an A :y
Da Holy One
49 posts
Joined July 2010
Da Holy One
My friend and i each have about 11k plays. Ive been all about only playing songs i can barely pass while he on the other hand practices maps way out of his league where he fails in the first 10 sec. The end result when we play together every night is that i beat him in every map but if we do a map out of our league like air man he can get a higher accuracy than me like 64 percent to my 60. Also he can do streams faster than I can. He is unable to get anything higher than 95 acc on any insane map and he has difficulty in keeping note streaks past 150.

On a side note he can actually read ar 11 well since he practices it so much. He just cant do it.

So in summary, dont skip learning the fundamentals
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny

Da Holy One wrote:

My friend and i each have about 11k plays. Ive been all about only playing songs i can barely pass while he on the other hand practices maps way out of his league where he fails in the first 10 sec. The end result when we play together every night is that i beat him in every map but if we do a map out of our league like air man he can get a higher accuracy than me like 64 percent to my 60. Also he can do streams faster than I can. He is unable to get anything higher than 95 acc on any insane map and he has difficulty in keeping note streaks past 150.

On a side note he can actually read ar 11 well since he practices it so much. He just cant do it.

So in summary, dont skip learning the fundamentals
ar11 takes such a long time to read, and so disappointing because it's a near-worthless skill
Nyoko_old
20 posts
Joined April 2013
Nyoko_old

Da Holy One wrote:

My friend and i each have about 11k plays. Ive been all about only playing songs i can barely pass while he on the other hand practices maps way out of his league where he fails in the first 10 sec. The end result when we play together every night is that i beat him in every map but if we do a map out of our league like air man he can get a higher accuracy than me like 64 percent to my 60. Also he can do streams faster than I can. He is unable to get anything higher than 95 acc on any insane map and he has difficulty in keeping note streaks past 150.

On a side note he can actually read ar 11 well since he practices it so much. He just cant do it.

So in summary, dont skip learning the fundamentals
That's just your friend, I can play maps way out of my league and fail them all the time over and over, but if I play a hard / normal one with doubletime I get S / SS
pielak213
463 posts
Joined April 2010
pielak213
­
Last edited by pielak213 , edited 1 time in total.
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny

pielak213 wrote:

i thought being able to read ar11 was a really useful skill so you can just hrdthd everything and get #1 on everything

i also magically got better at ar10.3 without practicing it
the OD of hrdt is such a turn off :(

also yeah i got better at ar10.3 by NOT playing ar10.3
ichivictus
ichivictus

buny wrote:

TehFabled wrote:

As many have said, if you can't read it don't play it. However, it is that much more satisfying when you go back to a hard song that stumped you in your starting days, and ace it.
how would you read higher ars then?

sometimes to improve you need to throw yourself in the water
Yeah i was gonna ask how you go from AR9 which i can perfectly read to AR10 which i go from 98% acc with ar9 to 65% and often fail with ar10, same map just edited diff settings.

Maybe the best way is to simply train and only play AR 10 for a week or two.
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny

ichivictus wrote:

Yeah i was gonna ask how you go from AR9 which i can perfectly read to AR10 which i go from 98% acc with ar9 to 65% and often fail with ar10, same map just edited diff settings.

Maybe the best way is to simply train and only play AR 10 for a week or two.
definitely a bad idea.
if ar9 feels fast for you, then as you keep playing it, it will gradually seem slower than it is and that's a good starting point on when to learn how to play ar10

many players that jumped straight to ar10 without even playing anything lower generally can't read anything below ar10
Almost
2,154 posts
Joined May 2012
Almost

buny wrote:

ichivictus wrote:

Yeah i was gonna ask how you go from AR9 which i can perfectly read to AR10 which i go from 98% acc with ar9 to 65% and often fail with ar10, same map just edited diff settings.

Maybe the best way is to simply train and only play AR 10 for a week or two.
definitely a bad idea.
if ar9 feels fast for you, then as you keep playing it, it will gradually seem slower than it is and that's a good starting point on when to learn how to play ar10

many players that jumped straight to ar10 without even playing anything lower generally can't read anything below ar10
You could also try playing ARs that are between AR9 and 10.
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