Haven't been around for the first two owc's, but is this happening every year?

typical Loctav actions + reasoning, its the same when i talk to him about hackers, hes just like "an apparently correct accusation is still an accusation"

no reason to be such a dick to lie to farto, apparently UK wants to play on sunday too? :d

>w< desu!

postpone the match n00bs

I don't really see what's the problem on it.

The problem is that Loctav hates the Polish team for whatever reason he has and doesn't give a single shit that most of our players cannot play at the time they didn't agree to play at. That and he doesn't want to postpone it to Sunday, even with both teams' agreement.

Zarerion wrote:

Haven't been around for the first two owc's, but is this happening every year?

No, only on #3 and #4, coincidentally managed by the same person...

Also,

Ciunek wrote:

The problem is that Loctav hates the Polish team

Loctav doesn't hate anyone - he just doesn't care about what anyone else thinks about the tournament - he's running it for himself and his own expectations.

Blue Dragon wrote:

Loctav doesn't hate anyone

Hates everyone*

Well I suppose I'm talking to a brick wall saying that, but the osu! world cup is supposed to be a "fun" event for many people, not only the participants. By watching streams and commentators and discussing maps and players everyone can contribute in a way.
This means that the organizing person(s) need to arrange it in a way which is fun to the highest amount of people, which I suppose is what Loctav is trying to do, so please consider that he isn't in an easy position. A shitton of people getting mad right now isn't gonna help anyone. You're just putting more pressure on Loctav, and people tend to be even less likely to cooperate when being insulted.

In any case, this doesn't mean farto isn't right with what he says. From what is known to the public (including the affected team), Loctav didn't really explain anything.
This game is run by the community, so is this tournament, so if there's anything going wrong the whole community should be informed. I'm saying, OWC staff should really be a tad more transparent, so we actually understand what's going on.
Why can't the match be postponed when both teams agreed on it? Is it the streamers being unavailable, or the commentators? If what we really want to get is the best experience for everyone, weh should aim to make the match possible with the best team rosters, so it is an actually fair game between the strongest players of these countries.
As Kamui said, in Group stage where a lot of different matches had to be organized it's understandable that a single change means a huge impact on the whole schedule, but this would only affect one of two matches, so what exactly IS the reason for not postponing it? (Yes, I strongly assume there is a reason aside from "Has been scheduled like that, no change because rules")

cptnXn wrote:

typical Loctav actions + reasoning, its the same when i talk to him about hackers, hes just like "an apparently correct accusation is still an accusation"

interesting coming from you :^)

so what exactly IS the reason for not postponing it? (Yes, I strongly assume there is a reason aside from "Has been scheduled like that, no change because rules")

If the reason was obvious and openly acceptable by everyone, he would just spit it out.

I think he has his reasons, but are a bit selfish or not acceptable by the community.

This means that the organizing person(s) need to arrange it in a way which is fun to the highest amount of people, which I suppose is what Loctav is trying to do, so please consider that he isn't in an easy position

I have the feeling that OWC's main aim is to lure newcomers (and possibly, osu! supporters) so those, who actually know this and that about the game aren't as important. This is why a match with Polish substitute roster would be still ok, we would just lose 1,2 thousands of viewers, most of them being experienced players. Saturday is an excellent day to watch the the match. Everyone is winning apart from participants and, of course, the sportsmanship and fairplay






I presuppose Loctav is pregnant.





#EDIT: Jappy pls stop

quality moderation o/

AmaiHachimitsu wrote:

so what exactly IS the reason for not postponing it? (Yes, I strongly assume there is a reason aside from "Has been scheduled like that, no change because rules")

If the reason was obvious and openly acceptable by everyone, he would just spit it out.

I think he has his reasons, but are a bit selfish or not acceptable by the community.







I presuppose Loctav is pregnant.





#EDIT: Jappy pls stop

Why not just play on Sunday too and then we can carry on as if it were the official match unofficially. I'd be happy to play an extra round at the end if the outcome is different (unofficial OWC match).

Why not just play on Sunday too and then we can carry on as if it were the official match unofficially. I'd be happy to play an extra round at the end if the outcome is different (unofficial OWC match).

We could













But WWW wants the tablet so badly : DDDDD

Well if you convince Korea we can have a little strike there. The tournament is not going to run without the teams.

#mastermind #evilplans #fightforjustice

Uh... I didn't know it was Saturday just now and I'll be away then.
I'd prefer Sunday.

This does sound a bit fishy but I'll reserve my thoughts on the matter until I hear a proper explaination by Loctav. If something like this is going on then there better be a good reason for it. Else just change it and make the viewers happy lockie?

The official reason is that Taiwan can't play at Sunday, period. That's what Loctav told me last time. This argument doesn't work anymore as said before, so there should be absolutely no reason not to postpone the match. Even if there was some kind of hidden reasoning I think the captains of both teams should've been notified about it in the first place.

Also Loctav seems to avoid posting here with proper explanations, he was online for some time today.

fartownik wrote:

Well if you convince Korea we can have a little strike there. The tournament is not going to run without the teams.

#mastermind #evilplans #fightforjustice

my thoughts exactly huehuehue

This is getting interesting o:

no drama no owc

#owcdrama

so is this where we make picket signs and march outside the osu! headquarters while chanting "let them play!"

[Luanny] wrote:

fartownik wrote:

Well if you convince Korea we can have a little strike there. The tournament is not going to run without the teams.

#mastermind #evilplans #fightforjustice

my thoughts exactly huehuehue

Nah... strikes won't resolve anything. If the 4 remaining teams can talk to each other and come up with a new schedule that's within reasonable time frame (eg both matches on the same day, 2-3 hours apart) then you'll have better chances of staff agree to accommodate the changes. It might be worth while to talk to private streamers just in case that no official streamers can make it during the proposed new time.

Once you get players + streamers sorted, I don't see any strong reasons for the officials to reject the proposals (unless the players themselves cannot stick to the new proposed time).

next owc in Lovtavs basement please

Well when the tournament is about like 4 teams you can actually stop it, just don't play and that's it lol. They can make it go on but it would be something like everyone loses or you get half of the team kicked out, something like both Poland and Taiwan losing and the other game becomes the grand final with no 3rd/4th place.

Well, when the turnament is about 4 teams, you can actually postpone it without harm.

We can play semi-finals next week, all of them. Of course if fits other teams and streamers.

JappyBabes wrote:

cptnXn wrote:

typical Loctav actions + reasoning, its the same when i talk to him about hackers, hes just like "an apparently correct accusation is still an accusation"

interesting coming from you :^)

Shots fired.

There are various reasons to reject any postponing.
Despite the management being absent on specific times (which isn't the main reason) and the demand of peppy to not even ask anyone about "when do you want to play", postponings are very critical compared to "agreed scheduling before schedule release"

The issue lies in the postponing self, not in the agreement. Usually teams arrange themselves with a scheduled time, but if I postpone a match (even if both team captains accept), a huge bunch of confusion can happen.
A little example (let's use Poland and taiwan. Keep in mind that this happened like 15 times in last owc because of postponings and bad captainship, not because of my stubborn thinking):
1. Taiwan wishes to schedule on Saturday. Poland is unable to give proper times. Match gets scheduled on Saturday
2. Every taiwanese player arranges with Saturday. Usually they are not online during the week. They just took a look at the schedule once and plan to reappear on Saturday.
3. Poland requests postponing. Captains agree on it. Taiwan is nice and says yes. But Taiwan has a hard time getting players there. Also they have a way worse communication structure than Poland or something. Captain is unable to tell the players the new times. Even if he is able to do so, some might not comprehend, get confused, or forget about the time change
4. On the actual match, Taiwan has to play with 4 backups or not with ideal setup because the postponing AFTER SCHEDULE RELEASE caused a huge confusion. Poland gets an unfair advantage here, considering that they were also able to play on the original scheduled time without a proper roster but with 4 players.

Question: is that fair? I can understand that you want to play with ideal setup. The issue doesn't lie in the Sunday self. I have time on Sunday. Everyone of the management has time there. The biggest issue is, that the postponing happens after schedule release. You are simply too late. Any postponing in a short time frame causes confusion, considering the big rosters of everyone and the fact that many captains do empty promises when it comes to communicating with their team.
I am not saying that Poland or taiwan have bad captains or something, but the caused risk to an unfair mess for a team after the postponing is too high, especially on this stage.

(Let's not mention that postponing is also unfair to UK and Korea and all other teams that played before and maybe went through some shit, too - to make their match happen, instead of playing the drama card)

It's easy to blame me for issues that are on a wide spread side of issues. The demand of peppy to never ask the captains again is a result of the above story, which happened dozens of times during last owc.
And no, the last year's mess wasn't caused by us. It was caused by the urgent need of every team to postpone matches five times a week. Yes, we were inexperienced. But we learned from it. We adjusted the rules. Also I need to be neutral. This means that I disagree with skipping the ruleset for someone asking for it. Everyone needs to be treated the same.
And I see no reason why I should allow Poland a postponing with high risks, when I was not accepting any postponings so far. I must consider risk and gain.

Yet I will try to see, what I can do. I already asked around yesterday, rejecting the request for now, even tho I would postpone it if there would be any guarantee that this doesn't cause issues. But this is impossible.

AmaiHachimitsu wrote:

As to clear out how we were fooled by Loctie (1st of farto's long paragraphs).

Basically, we were waiting for the schedule peacefully because Loctav said the matches would be on Sunday. And then suddenly fk Poland, Saturday, without notifying us. And since it was already scheduled, we couldn't change it


"I've changed my mind"

oh, I need to post the pic outside of quotes to make it more visible, my bad

Loctav wrote:

The biggest issue is, that the postponing happens after schedule release. You are simply too late.

.

Sounds pretty bs in my opinion, but what can I say...

Loctav wrote:

I have time on Sunday. Everyone of the management has time there. The biggest issue is, that the postponing happens after schedule release. You are simply too late.

You know in military, an organization which is extremely strict about orders and times/schedules, we had a word for people who were too stubborn to change their mind and adapt to the situation to get optimal results simply because other things were decided earlier.



It was "stupid".



This tournament is for the players. Excuse me for being so direct but stop being an idiot and get your priorities straight, the #1 priority should be to give the players the best playing conditions possible and adapt to whatever real life issues arise for them at any time to ensure that this event which only happens once a year becomes a good experience for all parties involved. Stop walking with your face into the wall.

@Ciunek clearly lacks of context, lol. I explained stuff further later on.

@Aqo you should read the whole post

I did read the whole post, don't assume I didn't just because I didn't choose to quote every single part of it.

I don't know the English word for this term but you need to work on your ability to adapt. I have run several online tournaments in the past (for fighting games) and know perfectly well how frustrating arranging times is and how things can get postponed, but if you don't do your very best to adapt to the players until the very last moment then you're doing a terrible job as a tournament organizer and the whole tournament is bad because of it.

If you would have read it, you would have understood that it is not my incapability to adapt.

No, it's definitely your inability to adapt and fear of stuff that happened in the past like long postponing.

What you should do is talk to both Taiwan and Poland team members and decide on a later time that will be convenient for both, doing it properly while both teams talk to each other. Delay the whole thing as much as needed and if you just let people talk to each other I'm sure it won't take longer than a week. The whole thing wouldn't have happened from the beginning if you just let people talk to each other more instead of making communications difficult. The teams don't need a third man to organize times for them, they can do it themselves. People who were playing for the entire year and waited for this wouldn't mind waiting a little longer to make sure everybody gets to play on their best shape, and I'm sure everybody else would like to see that too.

Stop using slogans like 'this can cause issues'. The biggest possible issue that can happen in a tournament, an event made purely for the players, is players getting screwed over. Your utmost highest priority should be to avoid this happening.

Considering that there are also other world cups in preparation, a postponing by a week is not possible. The tournament schedule was released on registration phase already. And we are not planning to change it.

Stuff is easier said than done. It's easy in your position to say "just do it, what's wrong with it", but I am not naive.
Also not asking the players is a quite dumb accusation. Taking a look on many many tournaments (UScup, OWC#2, even OWC#3) shows the issue in captains handling schedules.

Also postponing by a week is an unfair procedure considering the mappool practice time. Considering that all mappools gave you one week to be practiced, postponing all matches by 1 week give this pool 2 weeks, which is rather screwing the equality of the stages.

My utmost highest priority are fair and standardized matches. And I don't consider it as fair (in the great whole) to allow a single team better condition than others. The players are the focus. But not the polish players alone. All players are. Even those being kicked out already.

And you guys are probably the first blaming me for a messed up match because of an unattendance of taiwanese players. The so so called 'slogan' is no empty phrase. I clearly filled it with content and defined the issue (inability to adapt to postponed times from player sides, unfair treatment among others, giving advantages to one team)

I'm looking at farto's post and it doesn't seem to me like communication was handled properly.

Don't make up unrelated reasons like map practice times. Players on this level don't need more than 15 minutes to get familiar with a map, anything from there is their own play level which they have built over all this time and it won't change drastically in a week.

And thinking about stuff like teams who were kicked out at this point is what I mean with bad adaptation. I wasn't following this owc and didn't see how things went from the start, I'm sure there are things that could have gone better differently, but you should focus on how to make the best out of what you have right now instead of repeating mistakes you did in the past just because "that's what we did earlier".

If you want matches to be fair, let the teams talk to each other and decide on a time that they feel is fair for them. This is what should've been done from the start.

Just because Rucker and fartownik agreed to something, it doesn't guarantee that this won't cause issues to the taiwanese team now - in case of a postponing.
You still didn't understand the core problem or where the unfairness lies - or more like, why the change is now not possible because of the nature of postponings.


Suggesting captain-arranged times only shows that you didn't see what was going on on every tournament that was done like this.

How about you ask the entire teams what they think about it instead of only team captains?
I'm not saying it should necessarily be on either Saturday or Sunday, I'm saying you have a serious communication problem right now and instead of working on resolving it you're making it worse.

Stop sticking your head in the mud of past events and -go and talk to people right now-. Go online and try to catch as many players from each team, ask them what they think, put them in a chat together and let them talk, ask them how and when to contact people who were offline or unreachable at the time, over the course of 2 days (especially now that it's the weekend) get to contact everybody and resolve this issue by letting everybody talk and agree on things together, instead of acting like talking is pointless and giving people the message that they should just deal with robotics decisions that are obsolete of logic.