reading low ar is boring as fuck , the maps are like 100bpm and it's just beyond boring. who cares
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osu! World Cup 2013 - Discussion Thread
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The mappool has 3 AR8 maps that are DT, and 3 hr AR10 maps. The rest are AR9.
Variation, right?
Variation, right?
dont ignore me i want to play against germanos
pls i wanted to play ar8 hd maps
better than those 190bpm songs i cant stream
better than those 190bpm songs i cant stream
People like you make me want to quit this game.Soarezi wrote:
reading low ar is boring as fuck , the maps are like 100bpm and it's just beyond boring. who cares
Ugh, I'm gonna puke.
If you can't stream 190 bpm then I have no idea what are you doing on owc :p
Blue Dragon wrote:
People like you make me want to quit this game.Soarezi wrote:
reading low ar is boring as fuck , the maps are like 100bpm and it's just beyond boring. who cares
Ugh, I'm gonna puke.
He must have missed a slider that's worth 2 combo (simple start + end, no ticks or return-arrow)Vmx wrote:
Then this, look at LoGo's score he has 1miss 0x100, if you count every players score 100s 300s 50s they have 757 objects and LoGo had 756. ?_? The map had 757 obejcts so where did 1 LoGo's object go?
And why do people talk about which kind of people shouldn't be in owc and stuff.
I shouldn't be in owc but I am, deal with it.
I think all the maps are very fun, but Kert is right : they all have pretty much the same kind of difficulty. There are a lot of styles that could benefit the lower 16 teams. Not saying it would have kicked out some upper 16 teams, but it would give them something to work with. Now we're just awaiting the execution date
I feel kinda out of place, because all the players posting here are better than me... but still... you guys are considered pro players, right? So doesn't that mean that you should be good at all aspects of the game, including being able to read low AR? Why does everything have to be about reaction speed? Yes, playing fast maps and having lightning fast reaction is one of the skills required for osu, but it's not the only one. Reading low AR is just as important, it's just a different type of skill to have. Don't think of it as "boring", think of it as a challenge.
Should I complain that I can't read AR10 and above? No, I should become better, so I can read higher AR. The same goes for every pro player - don't complain that there are maps with low AR! Simply learn to read it! It's just another challenge to overcome in you path to becoming truly great at this game!
(inb4 "lol, noob 10k player telling me how to play)
Should I complain that I can't read AR10 and above? No, I should become better, so I can read higher AR. The same goes for every pro player - don't complain that there are maps with low AR! Simply learn to read it! It's just another challenge to overcome in you path to becoming truly great at this game!
(inb4 "lol, noob 10k player telling me how to play)
not low, normal. please stop crying because you can only play by reaction.Seems like you have forgotten about what you actually had said earlier. I mean you omitt the "hidden mod" thing.
seriously you're all just a bunch of crybaby's
"waahaaaahaaa i cant play this map because i dont know how to read low ar waahaaahaaa" grow up, you're supposed to be the best of the world, you should be able to play those maps
Hidden is a total pain in the ass on low ar and it's meant to be memorized, that's why FL allusion.
I have no problems with ar 7 or lower, but HD makes it a semi-FL map.
This is funny, when I was starting playing, that is 2011, AR 10 was still fast and AR9+DT was impossibru. I wish we could see the reaction back then if there happened to be AR 9+DT map in mappool.
If you think that reading painfully low AR is a skill necessary for a player to be a champion of a rhythm game I just must disagree.
You may ask why do I flame low ar when I can actually play it?
- Because it's boring to play.
- Because it's a 1-chance tournament, to be sure of FC you will be made to memorize the map completely which is good for a fkin karuta not osu!
- The standards changed now, you know.
I've seen some racing comparisons, so it's my turn.
Forcing players to play ridiculously low ar is like telling F1 racers to drive a Smart as to measure their skill.
The same thing is with low bpm streams, for instance. Some top=tier players can't play them perfectly, but each of them has WHAT IT TAKES to play them anyway. World Champion is someone who can go beyond the limits of an average player. An average player won't stream 220 bpm easily even if he practiced for 2 weeks straight, but shouldn't have problems with attaining ability to stream 140 bpm more or less. If we had some more time to practice we'd even learn how to AR 3 and so would do a newbie, but AR 10 is something beyond imagination for many lower-tier players.
Should I complain that I can't read AR10 and above? No, I should become better, so I can read higher AR. The same goes for every pro player - don't complain that there are maps with low AR! Simply learn to read it! It's just another challenge to overcome in you path to becoming truly great at this game!No, higher ar is a challenge. Low ar is something we had to deal in our early days in osu! It's only a matter of being used to, but getting used to demands effort, and time, which we don't have. I can assure you that there doesn't exist a player who can easily read ar 10,3 and ar 6 simultaneously. Some may be better, some may not, but they won't be good enough.
Presupposing that modern standard is AR 9, AR 8 is the lower AR I'd accept.
I think low ar+hd is pretty fun.
You just gave me indirect aids.Soarezi wrote:
reading low ar is boring as fuck , the maps are like 100bpm and it's just beyond boring. who cares
I support ar7 for nomod and ar8 for hd/nomod.
low ar + EZ is fun too, but it's more like fun gotten from playing itself. We can do such thing solo too
#edit: Sakisan - The thing is that you get a hit100 for unfinished slider and LoGo's score showed no 100s, just 1x miss. So this is some kind of glitch for sure.
#edit2: I was thinking a bit and...
Every year many teams act as sth needed just to fill the hole since their line-up won't stand a chance against top teams. What about making a consolation cup or sth like that for those who couldn't make it through the group stage? 1-2 Months of supporter as a prize and let's go. Or just for a sheer fun since the matches would be more exciting than a quick 4:0 against Korea?
It's not an idea for the present OWC, but maybe in the future? It's like Champions League and Europa League
#edit: Sakisan - The thing is that you get a hit100 for unfinished slider and LoGo's score showed no 100s, just 1x miss. So this is some kind of glitch for sure.
#edit2: I was thinking a bit and...
Every year many teams act as sth needed just to fill the hole since their line-up won't stand a chance against top teams. What about making a consolation cup or sth like that for those who couldn't make it through the group stage? 1-2 Months of supporter as a prize and let's go. Or just for a sheer fun since the matches would be more exciting than a quick 4:0 against Korea?
It's not an idea for the present OWC, but maybe in the future? It's like Champions League and Europa League
AR8 + DT is the best, anything higher and lower is too hard.
fixerinodAmaiHachimitsu wrote:
If you think that reading painfully low AR is a skill necessary for a player to be a champion of a score attack game I just must disagree.
noPettanko wrote:
AR8 + DT is the best, anything higher and lower is too hard.
there aren't many difficult maps that are below ar9 without ar being a gimmick way of increasing difficultyArtaxerx wrote:
I feel kinda out of place, because all the players posting here are better than me... but still... you guys are considered pro players, right? So doesn't that mean that you should be good at all aspects of the game, including being able to read low AR? Why does everything have to be about reaction speed? Yes, playing fast maps and having lightning fast reaction is one of the skills required for osu, but it's not the only one. Reading low AR is just as important, it's just a different type of skill to have. Don't think of it as "boring", think of it as a challenge.
Should I complain that I can't read AR10 and above? No, I should become better, so I can read higher AR. The same goes for every pro player - don't complain that there are maps with low AR! Simply learn to read it! It's just another challenge to overcome in you path to becoming truly great at this game!
(inb4 "lol, noob 10k player telling me how to play)
being the best doesn't necessarily mean you have to be the best in EVERY aspect either
Wow, that's like a quote of the day.buny wrote:
being the best doesn't necessarily mean you have to be the best in EVERY aspect either
what are uo complaining
The last few pages of discussing the mapset have just been people complaining because they didn't get what they wanted. Not that they shouldn't voice their disappointment, but this is turning into a discussion of "what is a hard map" and "what makes a player good". Clearly people disagree on that. So, what do you do when you have a player base that doesn't agree on what maps they want to play? You aim broad, and try variety. Now granted I have not had the time to get a good glance of the maps this round with studies and other stuff, but I'm sure we can calm down the heat of the argument to a minimum here. We have 32 countries, each with a roster of 6 or more players, and a dozen maps to pick each round. You can't please everyone with that. It's physically impossible, and you all know this (it's the reason why there's arguing right now).
Here's my call: Discussing what makes a player good is really interesting and I can definitely see some great points coming out of it, but players are different and are more skilled in different areas. You should adapt to the mapset and work on that which you feel you are behind compared to the rest of your skill base. Now, you might not carry your team to victory, and I agree that it is frustrating to see your weapon of choice not come into play, but when it comes to OWC, versatility is the greatest asset a player can have.
Good luck, y'all.
Here's my call: Discussing what makes a player good is really interesting and I can definitely see some great points coming out of it, but players are different and are more skilled in different areas. You should adapt to the mapset and work on that which you feel you are behind compared to the rest of your skill base. Now, you might not carry your team to victory, and I agree that it is frustrating to see your weapon of choice not come into play, but when it comes to OWC, versatility is the greatest asset a player can have.
Good luck, y'all.
That actually sounds like a good idea.AmaiHachimitsu wrote:
#edit2: I was thinking a bit and...
Every year many teams act as sth needed just to fill the hole since their line-up won't stand a chance against top teams. What about making a consolation cup or sth like that for those who couldn't make it through the group stage? 1-2 Months of supporter as a prize and let's go. Or just for a sheer fun since the matches would be more exciting than a quick 4:0 against Korea?
It's not an idea for the present OWC, but maybe in the future? It's like Champions League and Europa League
Problem with low ARs is that the game requires you to play high ARs in order to be good.
DT makes AR go higher.
HR makes AR go higher.
DT makes AR go higher.
HR makes AR go higher.
Most players add DT or HR to improve their skills. When they see them selves getting faster, reading notes more quickly and with a faster reaction, it gets more fun. I remember when I started osu! I use to go and play multiplayer and when higher rank players chose a higher ar map, I was like to my self "how da fuq can they do this" And then you just want to be able to read and play at that kind of fast pace. Many players on osu! suffer when they come back to play low ar, after them playing high ar maps for months etc...So they will develop lots of hate towards low ar and such. Some players avoid playing high ar and end up actually playing maps with high bpm on low ar with ease, while players who play at higher ar, can not... So, it's up to the players choice on how he/she progresses through osu!Wishy wrote:
Problem with low ARs is that the game requires you to play high ARs in order to be good.
DT makes AR go higher.
HR makes AR go higher.
No, we are not talking about combo here, look at objects, i got 1xMiss, but if i hit slider i get 1x300. So there is still 1 object missing.Sakisan wrote:
He must have missed a slider that's worth 2 combo (simple start + end, no ticks or return-arrow)Vmx wrote:
Then this, look at LoGo's score he has 1miss 0x100, if you count every players score 100s 300s 50s they have 757 objects and LoGo had 756. ?_? The map had 757 obejcts so where did 1 LoGo's object go?
And why do people talk about which kind of people shouldn't be in owc and stuff.
I shouldn't be in owc but I am, deal with it.
I think all the maps are very fun, but Kert is right : they all have pretty much the same kind of difficulty. There are a lot of styles that could benefit the lower 16 teams. Not saying it would have kicked out some upper 16 teams, but it would give them something to work with. Now we're just awaiting the execution date
It is just as fun, for example, when I watch MillhioreF play EZ on some map with like 1 million objects on the screen at the same time and hitting them all. This kind of play also gets a reaction like "How the fk can he do this?" And you just want to be able to read and play at that kind of pace. You see? Your argument can be applied in this situation too. The problem is, like Wishy said, that the game pretty much requires you to play high AR... No respect for low AR at all!Luffy-Kun wrote:
Most players add DT or HR to improve their skills. When they see them selves getting faster, reading notes more quickly and with a faster reaction, it gets more fun. I remember when I started osu! I use to go and play multiplayer and when higher rank players chose a higher ar map, I was like to my self "how da fuq can they do this" And then you just want to be able to read and play at that kind of fast pace.
Soarezi
Yes, exactly.Soarezi wrote:
So because most prefer more fast paced over slow paced makes you want to puke and quit the game? alright
Soarezi
haha AmaiHachimitsu your posts make no sense at all 
and why is everybody comparing this with a race. if anything, you guys are playing fucking nascar. driving fast and going left. driving fast and going left. driving fast and going left. driving fast and going left. driving fast and going left. driving fast and going left. driving fast and going left. driving fast and going left.
and why is everybody comparing this with a race. if anything, you guys are playing fucking nascar. driving fast and going left. driving fast and going left. driving fast and going left. driving fast and going left. driving fast and going left. driving fast and going left. driving fast and going left. driving fast and going left.
I would love to see ivaltek on the mappool XDAqo wrote:
I love Ivaltek please dosilmarilen wrote:
to all the ar9 haters: i hope they pick a nice jumpy ar8 map is one of the future rounds, like ivaltek or something
There hasn't even been a part which coul'dve made sense in them, so commenting on them for not making any sense while they aren't even capable of containing the slightest bit of sense is quite funny as wellSoarezi wrote:
fix'dGladiOol wrote:
haha GladiOol your posts make no sense at all
Soarezi
GladiOol wrote:
haha AmaiHachimitsu your posts make no sense at all
driving fast and going left. driving fast and going left. driving fast and going left. driving fast and going left. driving fast and going left. driving fast and going left. driving fast and going left. driving fast and going left.
i believe mappers use ar to control the amount of visible objects on the field, a slow map with a high ar is going to look bad because there aren't as many objects visually appearing at the same time and also gives the vibe that the map is fast.
a fast map with a low ar is going to look bad because there are too many objects visually appearing at the same time and so it confuses the player into thinking the map has a slow rhythm/flow, and also looks very clustered/messy.
You won't see many low ar maps in the map pool simply because a good mapper will always pick the ar that makes their map looks best in. ar10 is generally used for maps that have high flow speeds i.e. image -material-, big black whereas ar9 is "not too fast" but also "not too slow" for moderate/high bpm maps. maps that are ar8 and below tend to be maps that are easily dt-able; the map is going to be at a relatively low bpm ~160 with pretty low spacing and sv which doesn't meet the difficulty requirements to be an owc map (unless in dt bracket), or maps that have a very low amount of hit objects.
Personally i don't enjoy hitting a circle and then looking at my background waiting for the next one to pop up, but i also don't like to focus on so many objects appearing at once creating confusion, and my playfield looking incredibly messy too.
tl;dr version: mappers pick ar depending on the speed of the flow of the map, and to not make their map look empty or clustered which is why not many ar8 and below maps are picked because they are generally easy and do not meet difficulty requirements
a fast map with a low ar is going to look bad because there are too many objects visually appearing at the same time and so it confuses the player into thinking the map has a slow rhythm/flow, and also looks very clustered/messy.
You won't see many low ar maps in the map pool simply because a good mapper will always pick the ar that makes their map looks best in. ar10 is generally used for maps that have high flow speeds i.e. image -material-, big black whereas ar9 is "not too fast" but also "not too slow" for moderate/high bpm maps. maps that are ar8 and below tend to be maps that are easily dt-able; the map is going to be at a relatively low bpm ~160 with pretty low spacing and sv which doesn't meet the difficulty requirements to be an owc map (unless in dt bracket), or maps that have a very low amount of hit objects.
Personally i don't enjoy hitting a circle and then looking at my background waiting for the next one to pop up, but i also don't like to focus on so many objects appearing at once creating confusion, and my playfield looking incredibly messy too.
tl;dr version: mappers pick ar depending on the speed of the flow of the map, and to not make their map look empty or clustered which is why not many ar8 and below maps are picked because they are generally easy and do not meet difficulty requirements
It looking awesome does not equate to fun.Artaxerx wrote:
It is just as fun, for example, when I watch MillhioreF play EZ on some map with like 1 million objects on the screen at the same time and hitting them all. This kind of play also gets a reaction like "How the fk can he do this?" And you just want to be able to read and play at that kind of pace. You see? Your argument can be applied in this situation too. The problem is, like Wishy said, that the game pretty much requires you to play high AR... No respect for low AR at all!Luffy-Kun wrote:
Most players add DT or HR to improve their skills. When they see them selves getting faster, reading notes more quickly and with a faster reaction, it gets more fun. I remember when I started osu! I use to go and play multiplayer and when higher rank players chose a higher ar map, I was like to my self "how da fuq can they do this" And then you just want to be able to read and play at that kind of fast pace.
As I said before " it's up to the players choice on how he/she progresses through osu!" Every player is different. Some people might like to be able to be more professional at low ar with high bpm and some would want to be professional at high bpm with higher ar. Although, you say "No respect for low AR at all!" Is because most players on osu! end up playing higher ar later on (Cause lower ar gets boring for them) so you won't see much players defending low ar... Although, I respect both of them.Artaxerx wrote:
It is just as fun, for example, when I watch MillhioreF play EZ on some map with like 1 million objects on the screen at the same time and hitting them all. This kind of play also gets a reaction like "How the fk can he do this?" And you just want to be able to read and play at that kind of pace. You see? Your argument can be applied in this situation too. The problem is, like Wishy said, that the game pretty much requires you to play high AR... No respect for low AR at all!Luffy-Kun wrote:
Most players add DT or HR to improve their skills. When they see them selves getting faster, reading notes more quickly and with a faster reaction, it gets more fun. I remember when I started osu! I use to go and play multiplayer and when higher rank players chose a higher ar map, I was like to my self "how da fuq can they do this" And then you just want to be able to read and play at that kind of fast pace.
Well, my main gripe with the mappool is the lack of variation really. The mappool strongly favors one type of player over another. We're also playing all 3 group stage matches with this mappool afaik, so there's even less variation than last year on that aspect.
I thought we introduced group stages in the first place so that all countries participating would atleast play and enjoy 3 matches? Now, I'm not trying to claim that some countries can't play these maps or anything, but a varied pool would give higher chances for low-tier players to pick maps strategically. Well actually that goes for all teams.
I mean, right now I don't even need to pick a map. I can just hit f2 and play whatever map I get since they're basically the same thing.
I thought we introduced group stages in the first place so that all countries participating would atleast play and enjoy 3 matches? Now, I'm not trying to claim that some countries can't play these maps or anything, but a varied pool would give higher chances for low-tier players to pick maps strategically. Well actually that goes for all teams.
I mean, right now I don't even need to pick a map. I can just hit f2 and play whatever map I get since they're basically the same thing.
Ilye_old
Focusing on low ar just because OWC will require this is pointless. If you want to rank high you need to play with high ar, if you play with high ar you simply will suck at <ar9. So what is the point to force top players, who play mainly ar10 or higher to play something what is not connected with advancing in ranking? Low AR may be fun, but osu is all about improving speed and fast sightreading, you need to deal with that. If you not consider high rank players as the best in the world then who is best? If osu counted EZ mode as a multiplier like HR (x1,06) playing low ar would be ok, but its's not. As I said earlier, improving unnecessary skill is meaningless when it's only for OWC's purpose.
You can create tournament for low ar players, but don't confuse World Cup with it.
@edit
I'm not saying low ar players are worse than high ar, but considering every similliar aspect will lead to CS1 fans etc. playing with low ar is not being awarded in game so shouldn't be at owc as well.
You can create tournament for low ar players, but don't confuse World Cup with it.
@edit
I'm not saying low ar players are worse than high ar, but considering every similliar aspect will lead to CS1 fans etc. playing with low ar is not being awarded in game so shouldn't be at owc as well.
Ladies and gentlemen, the mindset of new single-minded players who only care about speed. I'm not going to question you, but there are many players who are considered top players who can't play AR10.3 insanes.[-Aoi-] wrote:
Focusing on low ar just because OWC will require this is pointless. If you want to rank high you need to play with high ar, if you play with high ar you simply will suck at <ar9. So what is the point to force top players, who play mainly ar10 or higher to play something what is not connected with advancing in ranking? Low AR may be fun, but osu is all about improving speed and fast sightreading, you need to deal with that. If you not consider high rank players as the best in the world then who is best? If osu counted EZ mode as a multiplier like HR (x1,06) playing low ar would be ok, but its's not. As I said earlier, improving unnecessary skill is meaningless when it's only for OWC's purpose.
You can create tournament for low ar players, but don't confuse World Cup with it.
I'd rather watch people consistently playing somewhat difficult maps more than getting fucked over by round 1 maps that are harder than finals maps from last year.