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osu! World Cup 2013 - Discussion Thread

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tiper
Now russian wiki has an article about OWC 2013. Gonna follow the main article in order to update the russian one.
rakuskoin
when the registration is over?
Wishy
Registration Phase: 15-28 Oct 2013
AmaiHachimitsu
If less than 4 players attend, the maximum time the match will be postponed is 20 minutes.
Why can't a team play with 3 players? Is it so devastating to the "show"? Various reasons may stop players from showing up and losing a match without a fight would be lame (especially when the rest of the team wanted to play anyway)
Topic Starter
Loctav
If you have no time to participate, don't sign up in the first place.
Your team size is 8 to compensate these cases and to ensure that you can find 4 to participate on every match. Not for tactical purposes in the first place.
-GN

Loctav wrote:

Wouldn't it be quite obvious? :P
I can only see this being the potential foundation for some hefty drama when some team insists "no, it's legit this guy practiced for like a year". This type of memorization mod has no place in a skill tournament anyway, unless you're putting low-tier Hard diffs into the freemod bracket.
Topic Starter
Loctav
Put your bias aside. It start's getting boring. I am not interested in your drama.
Memorization is a skill, not a skill you like, but yet a skill. Also this is no "FL SUCKS" thread, so step aside. (Most people won't pick FL anyways, it's not like random people participate here, 95% of the registered people are well-known)
DeletedUser_613592
just wondering who will use fl
Hernan
Just wondering when Loctav is gonna learn some manners
-GN

Loctav wrote:

Put your bias aside. It start's getting boring. I am not interested in your drama.
Memorization is a skill, not a skill you like, but yet a skill. Also this is no "FL SUCKS" thread, so step aside. (Most people won't pick FL anyways, it's not like random people participate here, 95% of the registered people are well-known)
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/125660?m=0 http://osu.ppy.sh/b/134948?m=0 http://osu.ppy.sh/b/76775?m=0 http://osu.ppy.sh/b/17251?m=0 http://osu.ppy.sh/b/48450?m=0

I know pretty well what FL is and not is - don't assume I don't. I am not bashing FL, I'm not saying it sucks, but I'm saying it's the kind of memorization skill you'd require damn near inhuman reflexes and consistency to pull off FCs with in a tournament. I'm proposing we drop FL as a mod in the freemod, as it'd just bring drama and cheating accusations(at the very least) if someone decided they'd use it. Why not spare yourself the potential trouble?
Salvage
I have to agree with GN here since FL would only bring trouble to the tournament, also i don't really think it's that fun to watch since i rather watch a tournament in similar conditions, i have to agree as well that stubbornness and stubbornness only will make it stay as it is.
Topic Starter
Loctav

Hernan wrote:

Just wondering when Loctav is gonna learn some manners
Probably never :C

@-GN We can deal with the dramas in case they arise. No need to be afraid of the monster under the bed.
Metro
Ever heard of "an ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure" or "better safe than sorry"? That's the point we're trying to make here. And we all agree on removing FL.
Topic Starter
Loctav
Just because you consider FL as "not worth for tournaments" and a hand-full people agree with you, it's not valid.
Let's more say it like this: I remember tons of people being heavily against mod brackets. Now they are established. Give it a chance. If it sucks, we can remove it later.
Metro
Mod brackets are very different to flashlight usage lol but it's impossible to reason anything with you.
eldnl

Metro wrote:

Mod brackets are very different to flashlight usage lol but it's impossible to reason anything with you.
Let's give it a chance, is not like the world will end, there should be some maps that could fit perfectly for fl.
Topic Starter
Loctav
I do see your point why you consider it as "not worth it" or why you are afraid of cheaters using it. It's not like I do not understand your concerns. But the reasons are still based on assumptions and fears, opinions and tastes - which differ widely. I see no harm in allowing FL in FreeMod, especially because it's in FreeMod. Think about the chances of it's usage and think about, if it's even worth making noise about an option that probably no one is going to use. I remember a lot of cases where people were heavily against certain changes in the world cups, starting with mapselection at all, ending with mod brackets and commentators. Out of my experience, I tend to give things a chance. And iirc, the map selectors agreed with me on that.
Moonpower

Loctav wrote:

We can deal with the dramas in case they arise. No need to be afraid of the monster under the bed.
We all know how good you guys are at this. :roll:

pls someone practice FL, I demand some drama
jesse1412

Loctav wrote:

Just because you consider FL as "not worth for tournaments" and a hand-full people agree with you, it's not valid.
Let's more say it like this: I remember tons of people being heavily against mod brackets. Now they are established. Give it a chance. If it sucks, we can remove it later.
Pretty sure we had a poll on some of the things people disagreed on last year, do it again and I'm 99% sure it'll be a landslide against FL.
Mismagius
So you can just get an easy 1-0 if you tell everyone from your team to FL practice the lowest-combo map on the free-mod bracket?
Seems very unlikely because of the pressure situation and that stuff, but still may happen. Whatever, though :P
Salvage
No player likes this addition and i can see how you like it being a casual osu standard player, you already know it probabbly won't be used anyways, so i don't see a problem making a poll about it to determine it's usage.



Also, can the warmup map decide who gets to choose first as it did in the previous owc or is the !roll a must?
Topic Starter
Loctav
Stuff like this doesn't get decided by a poll. Like eldnl said, give it a chance and let's try it. If you were right about it's inappropriate existence in the owc, we will notice and adjust our rules to it.
We had our concerns, too. But instead of adding an entire FL bracket, we decided for this way to see how good FL is received in matches self - not in prior discussions. Let us make the experience how it works out. And then decide.
If you don't make a huge drama of it (this is dependent on your own discretion), we can sort it out in a civil manner.
But bare words do not convince me or the rest of the management, yet we share certain concerns. But we are not conservative.

!roll is a must.
Thatgooey
I really hope we don't keep flashlight mod. It will not be fun to play for most participants, and it would not be fun to watch. Nobody wants to open up the stream and see 7 people frantically throwing their cursor all over the screen constantly missing and getting 100s/50s and 1 person who practiced that map for a week click circles nobody can see. It's not fun for the players, and it's not fun for the viewers. At least hidden is fun to play and watch. I think we should have a vote for flashlight mod. This is the one big osu! community tournament for the year that everyone looks forward to, so I think the community should be able to decide if FL should be allowed. It is always a controversial mod here on the forums, whether any of the claims are true or not. This is supposed to be a fun tournament to bring the world together to play some osu, not tear it apart. I can only see FL causing rifts between the community, so why allow it? My opinion is only one of many, but I think this is an issue that is important.

Put it to a vote and let the community decide.
Topic Starter
Loctav
Based on the first lines of your post, you didn't understand how freemod works. I stopped reading then since your whole post was based on a false fundament
Callum

Loctav wrote:

Based on the first lines of your post, you didn't understand how freemod works. I stopped reading then since your whole post was based on a false fundament
That is just ignorant. He still brings up some good points.

Thatgooey wrote:

This is the one big osu! community tournament for the year that everyone looks forward to, so I think the community should be able to decide if FL should be allowed. It is always a controversial mod here on the forums, whether any of the claims are true or not. This is supposed to be a fun tournament to bring the world together to play some osu
Kanye West

Loctav wrote:

Based on the first lines of your post, you didn't understand how freemod works. I stopped reading then since your whole post was based on a false fundament
I think Thatgooey meant to say that he wanted a no-flashlight-rule associated with freemod. As in, players can pick any mod except FL. Which I agree with for the same reasons stated by him.

Additionally, what if FL is allowed and someone cheats? So you end up with 7 crappy scores/fails and 1 good cheated score, with the cheater's team picking only freemod maps and winning every single time.
Topic Starter
Loctav
You should not worry about cheaters.

There are certain the reasons, why we don't decide that via a poll.
The poll jesus mentioned was also not official iirc?
If we would let the community decide about everything, we would still have an OWC without any mods and an OWC where the mappools gets designed by pressing F2 in map selection 15 times.
Azer
Sooo. I'm still waiting on a reply to my PM, Loctav. It's been almost two days now.
Tenyante
I will say only one thing.

FL is not fun to watch.
fartownik
Plenty of highly experienced players propose the FL to be removed. Other highly experienced players agree. I wonder what's the point you're trying to make by keeping it there for no matter what. Listen to players for once, they're the base of this game and this tournament is for them, and them only.
Pizzicato

Azer wrote:

Sooo. I'm still waiting on a reply to my PM, Loctav. It's been almost two days now.
same.

fartownik wrote:

Plenty of highly experienced players propose the FL to be removed. Other highly experienced players agree. I wonder what's the point you're trying to make by keeping it there for no matter what. Listen to players for once, they're the base of this game and this tournament is for them, and them only.
well, the organizers insist on making the FL thingy happen. players don't want it. I don't like FL too.
If they won't listen to our request, can we all agree that we won't use FL in the tournament? :D
pooptartsonas
The thing is, FL just doesn't fit in the tournament. I don't mean this to bash FL in any way, I've tried it a bit and it's super hard, but it is just COMPLETELY different from the rest of the game. It takes away most of the reading aspect of the game; you could make a similar argument for hidden but hidden is very readable. In my opinion the only place FL has in a tournament is a FL only tournament (which probably isn't realistic due to cheating but w/e). The other mods change the game a little bit but it's still the same game pretty much (hidden is a little more iffy), whereas FL is practically a different game altogether.
Salvage
Well i agree on keeping it civil cause it's useless to discuss otherwise, but since this is a discussion thread, i find that FL on the FreeMod bracket is a big deal right now. Everyone made good points about why it isn't good and even wtihout worrying about cheaters (which well if that's the case tbh i guess that could be apllied to every mod) it's still something i don't imagine being fun to cast/watch/play against in a tournament and more so here being the most prestigious one in each year.


I also know that even if i make valid points, they're all refutable if you feel like it, and keeping it is still a logic decision, but even so, player's opinions (and we had several of well known players) are really important in tournaments like this one and i think it should be taken care of or atleast open to variations having a propper discusion.
Thatgooey
Even if it is allowed during the tournament, we can still all have an agreement amongst us players not to select the mod. Just because as of right now it is allowed, doesn't mean we have to play it. I know that nobody from our team will select it, even if you could have one person prepare a short map to snipe a free win. I don't think it is fair to the viewers or players to have this mod. It's just not very fun for a tournament setting. Regardless of my or anyone else's opinion on the mod itself, I just don't like it being a one time play in a yearly tournament. It's not fair to the players and fans if a team who is clearly outmatched trolls and picks flashlight free mod on a hard map just for the hell of it. I know a great deal of us wouldn't do this, but sometimes people don't act the same on a stage in the spotlight if they aren't used to it. It just creates opportunity to take away legitimacy and fun from the tournament, that's all I'm saying. Again, this is supposed to be a fun international event for the community to come together and enjoy some friendly competition. I think this is a great thing for osu, and only want to see it succeed and have people talk about it until next year as a positive experience. FL mod being played in this tournament would just add fuel to fires that have been burning for a long time now. I don't want to see that. Again, I have nothing against the mod itself.
pielak213

Thatgooey wrote:

Even if it is allowed during the tournament, we can still all have an agreement amongst us players not to select the mod. Just because as of right now it is allowed, doesn't mean we have to play it. I know that nobody from our team will select it, even if you could have one person prepare a short map to snipe a free win. I don't think it is fair to the viewers or players to have this mod. It's just not very fun for a tournament setting. Regardless of my or anyone else's opinion on the mod itself, I just don't like it being a one time play in a yearly tournament. It's not fair to the players and fans if a team who is clearly outmatched trolls and picks flashlight free mod on a hard map just for the hell of it. I know a great deal of us wouldn't do this, but sometimes people don't act the same on a stage in the spotlight if they aren't used to it. It just creates opportunity to take away legitimacy and fun from the tournament, that's all I'm saying. Again, this is supposed to be a fun international event for the community to come together and enjoy some friendly competition. I think this is a great thing for osu, and only want to see it succeed and have people talk about it until next year as a positive experience. FL mod being played in this tournament would just add fuel to fires that have been burning for a long time now. I don't want to see that. Again, I have nothing against the mod itself.
You're misunderstanding the FreeMod bracket. One team can't choose the Freemod Bracket and say everyone picks flashlight.

I find watching someone retrying a map on FL for an hour a lot more fun than watching someone retry a normal map hddt for an hour. Very few people will probably even attempt flashlight because the risk is so high. Choosing FL means that you're 100% you can FC the map because everybody else is most likely going to FC the map and missing once means you're screwed.

Personally, I really like the implementation of FL since there can actually be a little strategy with swapping players *hint hint* and it being very possible to fc. I'm really hoping for a Korea secret strategy to come out and surprise everyone who doesn't know its players.

As for cheaters, I'm not going into detail but I know there are more methods than just looking at processes to determine if someone hacked FL.
Wishy
I thought free mod meant each players gets to decide which mod he is going to use? If that's the case, why do you care if some guy goes and adds FL? Looks like a high risk high reward play for me, and even then it's not even worth it since because of how the tournament works (and the maps we are picking) it would only really be worth anything if everyone gets and FC and you actually win because of the advantage FL gave you.
pielak213
^ I'd just like to add that if the map is easy enough to fc with fl, then it would also be easier to fc with hrhd which gives the same point total.
jesse1412

pielak213 wrote:

^ I'd just like to add that if the map is easy enough to fc with fl, then it would also be easier to fc with hrhd which gives the same point total.
No.
pielak213
^wat
Almost
^ It depends on the map.
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