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To all our Mappers and Modders.

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Topic Starter
_dog
For the Mappers and Modders of osu!2013 and the future.

Today I'm here to talk about a concern between all mappers in modders on maps, mapsets, and ranking.
Many people dislike the current easies that are just "#/1" "spam" or filler diffs. Or diffs that are
just made to be insane through streams, jumps, and overmapping. Well all I have to say to that is.
You're the mapper.
You're the modder.

We mappers and modders everyday complain about the system and how maps are mapped, but when you think
about it. Why are we the ones complaining? We're the ones who mapped those things. we're the ones who
started those trends. If you want it to change map it how you want. Don't automatically think:
"no one will like it if I map it this way". You map for yourself to enjoy a song. So map for yourself
to enjoy the map you created. Then share and guess what, someones going to like it. Someones going
to want to help. Someones going to try.

So if you're a mapper and really want change in the maps of today, why not change what you're mapping
right now? This isn't middle school. Stop trying to fit in. Map your easy with the beats you feel
should be respected min the song. Don't let people tell you an easy is all just "#/1" and also a
second note on that. Stop thinking the easy mode is a filler diff. Many newbies have to play easys to get
situated. We all played one atleast. Feel like you're doing a newbie a favor. Map the easy as if this
is going to be the first map a newbie plays. You never know. If you don't want an easy diff? Fine.
Make the set how you feel it should be and continue to do that. Stop mapping with the thought of:
"this ineeds to get ranked so i should map it like this." You tell the modders to stop structuring their
brain where only ONE way is correct and everything else is wrong.

You're a modder right and you're checking someones beatmap. It looks rankable, but can't you add onto it?
Help then fully improve it, not with just slight adjustments of circles and spacing, but with making
something you would really like to see in your eyes. Stop forcing yourself to belive this is how maps
should be. Go tell that person to be original. Try new things. Not try to make the same thing as everyone
else. They want to try new things but they feel like you won't let them. Help them out instead of instantly
saying it's good when it's able to be ranked. So later their next maps will be even more fun, even more
interesting, even more original.

Insanes don't need to be this.
Hards don't need to be this.
Normals don't need to be this.
Easies don't need to be this.

All a map has to be is this: The Mapper
All a mod has to be is this: The Modder

Everything you believe matters, so don't follow what others tell you to, that's not what you call a real modder.
That's not what you call a real mapper. The real mapper, works hard to make their map how they want it.
Interesting and unique to them. A real modder helps that mapper, and guides them to make it even more
interesting and unique to them.

Even though, we need certain rules and we don't rank spam or randomness that doesn't mean we need to block off
differences and creativity. So please, do what you want. If someone doesn't like it, atleast you do.

-TheGrimOfCrazy



And a heads up. This doesn't mean no hard insanes. This is about mapping and following what others say in general. Thanks.
Zare
And they all lived happily ever after.



Ohwait. This is not a fairy tale
Topic Starter
_dog

Zarerion wrote:

And they all lived happily ever after.



Ohwait. This is not a fairy tale
Example of a mapper who believes that all maps should be the same, and thinks that it can't change. One who doesn't try.
Zare

TheGrimOfCrazy wrote:

who believes that all maps should be the same
I don't even
Maiz94
Such a deepful meaning of OP :)
[Luanny]
Oh yeah about easy:
Easy is supposed to be easy
Not normal
Not hard
Not insane
Just EASY
What makes a map easy?
1/1.
Those who make 1/1 spam just to fill a mapset are lazy ass mappers tbh
an easy can be interesting and well mapped like any other diff
So what, do you want to put 1/2 on easy diffS? map a normal
You want more complex rhythms? Map a harder easy and map the standard easy. The spread will be delicious
Remember: beginners DON'T KNOW how this game is supposed to work yet. If they can't play they give up
Do you know what new players giving up means?
I tell you: NO FRESH BLOOD
NO NEW MAPPERS, NO NEW PLAYERS, JUST THE SAME PEOPLE EVERYDAY
We don't want that, do we?
I can say easy diffs are as important as insane diffs and sets without easy make me rage SO MUCH
Let it be. Easy is just an easy and if people don't want to map them, they can ask guest diffs for the really good easy mappers and that's it.
mm201

[Luanny] wrote:

Oh yeah about easy:
Easy is supposed to be easy
Not normal
Not hard
Not insane
Just EASY
What makes a map easy?
1/1.
Those who make 1/1 spam just to fill a mapset are lazy ass mappers tbh
an easy can be interesting and well mapped like any other diff
So what, do you want to put 1/2 on easy diffS? map a normal
You want more complex rhythms? Map a harder easy and map the standard easy. The spread will be delicious
Remember: beginners DON'T KNOW how this game is supposed to work yet. If they can't play they give up
Do you know what new players giving up means?
I tell you: NO FRESH BLOOD
NO NEW MAPPERS, NO NEW PLAYERS, JUST THE SAME PEOPLE EVERYDAY
We don't want that, do we?
I can say easy diffs are as important as insane diffs and sets without easy make me rage SO MUCH
Let it be. Easy is just an easy and if people don't want to map them, they can ask guest diffs for the really good easy mappers and that's it.
Nope. You can use 2/1, 3/1, etc., and you can sparingly use syncopation without adding difficulty. Less is more.
cheesiest

mm201 wrote:

[Luanny] wrote:

text
Nope. You can use 2/1, 3/1, etc., and you can sparingly use syncopation without adding difficulty. Less is more.
I have to agree with mm201. Depending on the song, you can use its rhythm many different ways for variance. I think a good example of this would be the easy difficulty of this map.
[Luanny]
Yeah I know
I mean 1/1 as the fastest note
2/1 on easies are delicious.
Mismagius
This is not going anywhere if OP is going to be aggressive to all posters who don't agree with him.
Cyclohexane
To all mappers and modders out there:


This is a game. So do whatever the fuck you want, and enjoy yourself.

Love,
Mr Color.
[Luanny]

Mr Color wrote:

To all mappers and modders out there:


This is a game. So do whatever the fuck you want, and enjoy yourself.

Love,
Mr Color.
qft

I don't understand all this overcomplicating ~_~
Dizco_old

Mr Color wrote:

To all mappers and modders out there:


This is a game. So do whatever the fuck you want, and enjoy yourself.

Love,
Mr Color.
Nothing else needs be said, when it stops being fun it's no longer a game, there is nothing else to motivate mappers or modders. (Although we could try to make mapping more fun.. but thats a diffrent can of worms)
Kodora

Mr Color wrote:

To all mappers and modders out there:


This is a game. So do whatever the fuck you want, and enjoy yourself.

Love,
Mr Color.
^ kd please
Shohei Ohtani
wow very revolution never said before
Moway

CDFA wrote:

wow very revolution never said before
[Luanny]

Moway wrote:

CDFA wrote:

wow very revolution never said before
/thread
JAKACHAN

TheGrimOfCrazy wrote:

For the Mappers and Modders of osu!2013 and the future.

Today I'm here to talk about a concern between all mappers in modders on maps, mapsets, and ranking.
Many people dislike the current easies that are just "#/1" "spam" or filler diffs. Or diffs that are
just made to be insane through streams, jumps, and overmapping. Well all I have to say to that is.
You're the mapper.
You're the modder.

We mappers and modders everyday complain about the system and how maps are mapped, but when you think
about it. Why are we the ones complaining? We're the ones who mapped those things. we're the ones who
started those trends. If you want it to change map it how you want. Don't automatically think:
"no one will like it if I map it this way". You map for yourself to enjoy a song. So map for yourself
to enjoy the map you created. Then share and guess what, someones going to like it. Someones going
to want to help. Someones going to try.

So if you're a mapper and really want change in the maps of today, why not change what you're mapping
right now? This isn't middle school. Stop trying to fit in. Map your easy with the beats you feel
should be respected min the song. Don't let people tell you an easy is all just "#/1" and also a
second note on that. Stop thinking the easy mode is a filler diff. Many newbies have to play easys to get
situated. We all played one atleast. Feel like you're doing a newbie a favor. Map the easy as if this
is going to be the first map a newbie plays. You never know. If you don't want an easy diff? Fine.
Make the set how you feel it should be and continue to do that. Stop mapping with the thought of:
"this ineeds to get ranked so i should map it like this." You tell the modders to stop structuring their
brain where only ONE way is correct and everything else is wrong.

You're a modder right and you're checking someones beatmap. It looks rankable, but can't you add onto it?
Help then fully improve it, not with just slight adjustments of circles and spacing, but with making
something you would really like to see in your eyes. Stop forcing yourself to belive this is how maps
should be. Go tell that person to be original. Try new things. Not try to make the same thing as everyone
else. They want to try new things but they feel like you won't let them. Help them out instead of instantly
saying it's good when it's able to be ranked. So later their next maps will be even more fun, even more
interesting, even more original.

Insanes don't need to be this.
Hards don't need to be this.
Normals don't need to be this.
Easies don't need to be this.

All a map has to be is this: The Mapper
All a mod has to be is this: The Modder

Everything you believe matters, so don't follow what others tell you to, that's not what you call a real modder.
That's not what you call a real mapper. The real mapper, works hard to make their map how they want it.
Interesting and unique to them. A real modder helps that mapper, and guides them to make it even more
interesting and unique to them.

Even though, we need certain rules and we don't rank spam or randomness that doesn't mean we need to block off
differences and creativity. So please, do what you want. If someone doesn't like it, atleast you do.

-TheGrimOfCrazy



And a heads up. This doesn't mean no hard insanes. This is about mapping and following what others say in general. Thanks.

The Aqo of mapping.

Nice maps bro.
XinCrin
wut .
Zeraph
welcome to off-topic
Ekaru
I'm not sure if I should be impressed or somewhat offended by this...
Mara
lol ur maps suck
Oinari-sama
I normally won't avoid reading a wall of text, but I hardly come across any readable ones lately. Ironically a lot of these posts came from players bear the flag of English speaking countries...
Topic Starter
_dog
Why was this moved to off-topic? GD or G&R are appropriate places based on the descriptions.
D33d

Mr Color wrote:

To all mappers and modders out there:


This is a game. So do whatever the fuck you want, and enjoy yourself.

Love,
Mr Color.
Just because it's a game and it's free, it doesn't mean that we should stop caring about improving the game. Can you imagine if all freeware/indie/cheaper games stopped short of greatness because the developer wasn't making any/much money?

There doesn't need to be any overcomplication here. As a mapper, make every difficulty engaging, make every difficulty accessible to different tiers of players and make every difficulty fit the overall difficulty of the mapset. As a modder, assist with this, even if it's in obtuse of "useless" ways--one can never tell when their input might be particularly useful, especially if they're approaching a map from a different angle to everybody else.

It bothers me that discussions such as this tend to feel necessary. I've seen many people try to get into the game, but then be put off by the quality of maps or the unbalanced learning curves of a lot of sets.

Remember: fun and accessible, to as many players as possible. As a community, we've came far enough to know what works and what can be done to improve.
Wojjan

D33d wrote:

As a community, we've came far enough to know what works and what can be done to improve.
there is no community beyond the sense that people speak of a league of legends community or macintosh community (i have actually heard this before)
Ideolo
To all mappers:
Place random notes everywhere and you're done.
Cloudchaser

Ideolo wrote:

To all mappers:
Place random notes everywhere and you're done.
lol'd
NoHitter
Everything you believe matters, so don't follow what others tell you to, that's not what you call a real modder.
That's not what you call a real mapper. The real mapper, works hard to make their map how they want it.
Interesting and unique to them. A real modder helps that mapper, and guides them to make it even more
interesting and unique to them.
So you want mappers to NOT follow what others tell them, but modders to guide the mappers even though mappers aren't supposed to follow what others say?
Maiz94

NoHitter wrote:

Everything you believe matters, so don't follow what others tell you to, that's not what you call a real modder.
That's not what you call a real mapper. The real mapper, works hard to make their map how they want it.
Interesting and unique to them. A real modder helps that mapper, and guides them to make it even more
interesting and unique to them.
So you want mappers to NOT follow what others tell them, but modders to guide the mappers even though mappers aren't supposed to follow what others say?
fark logic >:(
[Luanny]
my brain just exploded
btw why offtopic?

-Cloudchaser wrote:

Ideolo wrote:

To all mappers:
Place random notes everywhere and you're done.
lol'd
2013 logic in a nutshell
OnosakiHito
@NoHitter: What he is talking about is the nowadays modding process in certain cases. Instead of modding to mappers style(yes, of course there are rules and certain borders we shouldn't overstep), some guys literally dissect the map due to personal preferences. In my own opinion that shouldn't be the idea behind modding. Which is the reason why I agree to the OP's point.

There are also some other points I agree to, and some others I'm a bit skeptical about. But he has some right thoughts here.

About the move into offtopic: I dunno who did it, but maybe because of the upcoming new modding system. So let's wait for now @ TheGrimOfCrazy.
Something will change for sure.

Though, I'm unhappy about this movement since I find this topic still important.
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