I started this before I saw Bagel's post, but I'll post anyway

I think it's safe to clear Pasonia, since he was the first one to say he received someone else's innocence in their PM. Also, this post I believe clears BagelBob, since he states here at the very beginning that he already knew Derekku was innocent (even though it seemed like a joke at the time).

This leaves Derekku and LadySuburu (and me I suppose)

I asked strager right after I got my PM and he said that yes, I can protect myself.

Also, I don't think we can assume that yours and Pas's results are 100% guaranteed to be correct (being Crazy Mafia and all), so we aren't sure of your sanities either. Still, I am leaning toward lynching Suburu tonight, if no one else has any objections?

unvote

Vote Count
LadySuburu (2) - Derekku, Pasonia -- L-1
Derekku (1) - BagelBob
0_o (1) - LadySuburu

Not Voting - 0_o

Since the setup of this game was not clear, I should go on and inquire about a few things that has been posted since my message.

0_o wrote:

"I didn't" was referring to Pas's question of if anyone else's guilt/innocence was in their PM.

Might as well get everything out in the open though

Role Claim: Mafia Doctor

Weird, a Mafia Doctor in a game this short?

Derekku Chan wrote:

Sorry guys, I was gone all day =<

Role Claim: Mafia Cop

I randomly picked Pasonia to scan on Night 0 and got an "Unknown" reading. I'm not sure what to make of that.

A roleblock? Not sure if this traitor can do that, but if a roleblock actually did affect you then that must be absolutely coincidental.

I am tempted to wonder about the plausibility of a Mafia+Roleblocker role in a 5-man game, along with the cop.
While Derekku's claim of his cop investigate getting an unknown reading is much food for thought (a cop getting roleblocked on N0 is about a 25% chance at best, assuming the roleblock power is single-target only) 0_o's claim of a doctor role is even more suspicious.

Assuming any one of the remaining three (myself BB and LS) were scum, and we lynch them after surviving D1 then D2 it's almost open season for the remaining Innocents to attack the scum. I firmly believe that at least BB and LS are not stupid enough to leave themselves in the open.

My thoughts are, put succinctly:

1. Derekku is attempting a very, very weak scumbait by playing along with 0_o, and BB is probably right that Derekku is Innocent
2. 0_o is probably trying to smoke us with additional roles.

Which therefore stands to reason that I should perform the following actions:

Unvote
Vote no lynch

If there's something about this whole setup, it's that LadySuburu is being pretty inconspicious too, but since I've not played much with Suburu before I can't tell if LS is a scum biding time or just being very busy IRL.

strager: Clarification, Night 0 the Traitor can't kill, amirite?

A Doctor may protect himself.

Sanities are unknown (as far as the players are concerned of course) for all players. I may provide false information like I did in CM1 (for anyone except SFG in that game, anyway, who was Sane), except in this post.

An "unknown" result means an action was unsuccessful.

Pasonia wrote:

strager: Clarification, Night 0 the Traitor can't kill, amirite?

I cannot reveal this information.

strager wrote:

A Doctor may protect himself.

Sanities are unknown (as far as the players are concerned of course) for all players. I may provide false information like I did in CM1 (for anyone except SFG in that game, anyway, who was Sane), except in this post.

An "unknown" result means an action was unsuccessful.

Please don't tell me you placed my alignment as Insane again for the second game running.

Pasonia wrote:

Please don't tell me you placed my alignment as Insane again for the second game running.

All players are randomly matched to a certain set of roles. I did not arrange the players to roles myself.

Now that actual information has been gathered, I'll remove my random vote for the time being until we can hear from LS.

Unvote.

With regards to Pas's attack against me, keep in mind I was the second person to claim, and that was after you claimed you knew of Bagel's innocence. If I were the traitor I would waited until at least one more person claimed, since I would have no way of knowing if the rest of the mafia received extra information as well, and if this was the case I would have been screwed.

0_o wrote:

With regards to Pas's attack against me, keep in mind I was the second person to claim, and that was after you claimed you knew of Bagel's innocence. If I were the traitor I would waited until at least one more person claimed, since I would have no way of knowing if the rest of the mafia received extra information as well, and if this was the case I would have been screwed.

Sounds familiar...

how am I supposed to hammer when you guys Unvote?

0_o wrote:

With regards to Pas's attack against me, keep in mind I was the second person to claim, and that was after you claimed you knew of Bagel's innocence. If I were the traitor I would waited until at least one more person claimed, since I would have no way of knowing if the rest of the mafia received extra information as well, and if this was the case I would have been screwed.

Not just that, it seems like you're quoting the obvious but you meant more. You know you're accusing LS there, so I'd go ahead and say you're now scumpainting LS by that subtle hint (since LS DID wait until one more person claimed, and that one more person before LS was you.)

You better come up with a far stronger defence of yourself soon, really... This just won't cut it.

Pasonia wrote:

Not just that, it seems like you're quoting the obvious but you meant more. You know you're accusing LS there, so I'd go ahead and say you're now scumpainting LS by that subtle hint (since LS DID wait until one more person claimed, and that one more person before LS was you.)

You better come up with a far stronger defence of yourself soon, really... This just won't cut it.

So my defense of myself is "stating the obvious?" Shouldn't that mean I'm obviously not mafia? =/

And I wasn't sending subliminal scumplanting messages, I was saying facts. And yes, they do incriminate LadySuburu, which makes her most likely to be the traitor with the knowledge we have.

vote LadySuburu

In fact I am almost positive that LadySuburu is the traitor, even ignoring who you and BagelBob got innocent results for:
-Pas and BagelBob I cleared here
-I don't believe Derekku knew about the "No Result" possibility for Cop investigations until this game (since I am fairly certain this is the first time he has been a cop, and No Result hasn't come up in any of the games him/we have played so far, as far as I know). Also (WIFOM warning) if you a traitor claiming cop, why not give actual results?
-and I'm clear because I know I am

Also Pasonia, No Lynch is not the way to go here, if we don't lynch someone tonight we will be at LyLo tomorrow (unless my protection is successful), and we will have 4 people to choose from instead of 3.

0_o wrote:

Also Pasonia, No Lynch is not the way to go here, if we don't lynch someone tonight we will be at LyLo tomorrow (unless my protection is successful), and we will have 4 people to choose from instead of 3.

Two no-lynches brings you to three players, with an extra Night, but only once chance of killing the Mafia (ignoring aux roles).

strager wrote:

0_o wrote:

Also Pasonia, No Lynch is not the way to go here, if we don't lynch someone tonight we will be at LyLo tomorrow (unless my protection is successful), and we will have 4 people to choose from instead of 3.

Two no-lynches brings you to three players, with an extra Night, but only once chance of killing the Mafia (ignoring aux roles).

Yes, but the 2 people who die those nights are guaranteed to be pro-mafia, whereas if we do a lynch tonight there is a chance we hit the traitor, and we get a second chance we aren't not correct.
The only reason we would want an extra night is for an extra cop investigation. Thing is though, if Derekku really is the cop then I would get NK'd the first night, leaving Derekku open to get NK'd night 2, and that still only leaves us with one investigation.
So unless I'm missing something here, No Lynch won't do us a bit of good.

Also, I don't think the mod is supposed to contribute to the discussion..

Here's why I see something wrong here. Assuming that I am indeed the traitor, and there's no sanity problems, here's how things would look.

Pasoinia - Mafia with innocent on BB (Mostly clear due to posting this first, and followed by a similar claim.)
BagelBob - Mafia with innocent on Derekku cleared by Pasonia.

Already, if the two above are true, the Mafia win instantly, as the only possible results are me and 0_o.

Not only do we have those two, but we have this as well.

0_o - Mafia Doctor
Derekku - Mafia Cop with unknown on Pasonia

So, in this theoretical situation, We've got not only two/three confirmed innocents, but a cop and a doctor as well?

As another note, I find it humorously funny, though frustrating, that I'm the only one here without any sort of power or "extra knowledge".

Now, I have to write a paper, but I'll be back with more either later tonight or tomorrow. (Or earlier if I can fit a post in.)

0_o wrote:

Also, I don't think the mod is supposed to contribute to the discussion..

I can do as I wish. I'm just a ... hallucination. =]

Hey Suburu, that's a great set-up you have there, but, umm, it includes you being scum. Do you have anything where someone else is scum?

To cut a long story short it's that I'm only left with 0_o or LS to suspect against. Please, more from LS please. What you did back there was only regurgitating known information...

Here's some possibilities of setups where I am not scum. Some is pure speculation, and WIFOMY, but it's really all I have.

A: Pasonia's information was false. BB is scum and Derekku is innocent. BB copied Pasonia's statement. Unlikely due to a statement early on when voting for Derekku. (Though, that vote is contradictory.)

B: Bagel's information was false. Derekku is scum.

C: 0_o fake claimed. 0_o is our scum.

D: Pas is scum. strager provided an addition to Pas's PM which contained the version of the role PM bagel was sent, with no name attached. (Possibly with name attached, would work too.) Pas claimed first to "confirm" self as town, and chose to claim BB innocent.

I have nothing solid, and having no abilities nothing much else to give. Those are the only situations I can think of as possible.

Final WIFOM statement: If I were scum, why not have claimed similar to Pasonia? Scum know who is and is not innocent.

Meh.

Ahem, yes, that first vote came because I had yet to talk to strager. At first I thought "innocent" meant traitor since, you know, this is crazy Mafia and we are the Mafia, so Guilty would mean one of us. strager cleared it up. That conversation ended with strager telling me that I couldn't post "PANTS PANTS PANTS PANTS".

I'd like to assume that strager was telling the truth, as otherwise he would be a Bastard.

I know option A to not be the correct set-up, and it looks like a majority thinks similarly.
I'd like to believe option B to be false, as I'd like to believe that strager is not a Bastard.
I'll give it a 3% chance of being true.
I have no way to prove or disprove option C. I'll give it a 45% chance of being true.

I'd like to append option D, then refute it. The basic set-up here is that the cop has both a doctor and someone who can confirm the cop's innocence. I'd say it's possible that Pasonia received a list of Everyone's roll. It would make story-sense because the Traitor is one of us, so should know us well. I further think that since this is crazy mafia, strager might have made the doctor insane. Or the option where he kills if his protection fails. That's what I would have done anyway. This is further supported, but not confirmed, by Derekku getting roleblocked. (I'm pretty sure that's what happened)
With only a 1 in 4 chance of hitting the cop, this game would be a 75% win chance for the town on day 1 and probably even higher on day 2 (ignoring day 2, unless of course the Traitor AND the doctor killed N0, in which case there would be no day 2) anyway, that ends my append of "if the Traitor is Pasonia, he knows more than just my role" story

Now, I think it is unlikely that Pasonia is lying because she choose me to Buddy with me, and I mean come on; that's totally out of character. Unless he spent those last two games making me think he hates me personally and really doesn't, in which case that's extremely something. I'll give it a 2% chance.

BagelBob wrote:

I further think that since this is crazy mafia, strager might have made the doctor insane. Or the option where he kills if his protection fails. That's what I would have done anyway.

I protected myself the first night and I'm still here, so that second option isn't the case.

Nonetheless, very interesting theory..
unvote

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The traitor getting a list of our roles and roleblocking my scan DOES seem likely (and something that strager would do).

Hmm..

Derekku Chan wrote:

The traitor getting a list of our roles and roleblocking my scan DOES seem likely (and something that strager would do).

Hmm..

Okay then, Derekku, what's the use of a Cop Role if it's already told to the Traitor? Won't the Traitor then kill the cop on N0 instead of leaving us a chance like this?

Besides, if it's possible that Traitor Kills N0, what are the chances of a successful doctor protect? Then you're implying you have to be both a doctor and a cop in order to protect yourself N0?

Pasonia wrote:

Okay then, Derekku, what's the use of a Cop Role if it's already told to the Traitor? Won't the Traitor then kill the cop on N0 instead of leaving us a chance like this?

Besides, if it's possible that Traitor Kills N0, what are the chances of a successful doctor protect? Then you're implying you have to be both a doctor and a cop in order to protect yourself N0?

Hmm I dunno. I'm just thinking along the lines that this is CRAZY mafia and that strager can host it however he wants. Maybe the traitor wasn't allowed to kill N0? I really don't know. ._.;

Pasonia wrote:

1. Why are you flip-flopping on the matter? First you say that no lynch is not the way to go, THEN you proceeded to perform an unvote yourself.

What? We have 36 hours to make a decision, and me unvoting means I want a no-lynch??

2. Why are you so intent on pushing votes on LS? You made that intention extremely clear with this:

[Quote of my vote count]

You helped us highlight an L-1, thank you very much. But this is very clear as day you're trying very hard to get LS lynched.

So... me posting a vote count means I'm trying to get LadySuburu lynched.. this makes no sense?

While I do not trust that LS is cleared yet, I am of a strong opinion on the matter of you being the traitor. Your eagerness to push a vote and then suddenly backing out is making your case weaker in my eyes, and your second unvote has forced my hand. You seemed like you didn't want to deal the finishing blow; I can't think of a reason other than you being a traitor as the only plausible reason behind your flippy-floppiness.

I unvoted because BagelBob made a good case, am I not allowed to change my opinion if someone presents an argument that makes more sense than mine, and blindly follow my own convictions? If I recall correctly, that's exactly one of the things you accused me of after CM1.

Pasonia wrote:

Derekku Chan wrote:

The traitor getting a list of our roles and roleblocking my scan DOES seem likely (and something that strager would do).

Hmm..

Okay then, Derekku, what's the use of a Cop Role if it's already told to the Traitor? Won't the Traitor then kill the cop on N0 instead of leaving us a chance like this?

Besides, if it's possible that Traitor Kills N0, what are the chances of a successful doctor protect? Then you're implying you have to be both a doctor and a cop in order to protect yourself N0?

1) We don't know if there was a kill N0, I but I'm guessing no since the game is so small to begin with, and if there was a kill we would be at LyLo on the first day
2) If the traitor is a role-blocker, then it doesn't matter if Derekku is a cop because he can block him every night anyway.

I actually think Bagel's "knowledgeable traitor" idea makes a lot of sense. Seeing as this is Crazy Mafia, don't you think it would be wayy too easy to have 2 knowledgeable townies CONFIRMING innocence of another, as well as a Cop and Doctor? There has got to be something more going on here.

Consider this...
If Traitor was allowed to kill N0, then we'll be Day 1 LyLo. =_=

Anyway, yea, as of current information on Day 1 I clear BB and DChan, so only 0_o and LS remains.

The behavior of 0_o makes me doubly sure that I've got our Traitor; if he dies and one of us gets killed, then LS is the only option left to us.

The only way my claim can be disproved is if both 0_o and LS dies on Day/Night 1.

Pasonia wrote:

Assuming any one of the remaining three (myself BB and LS) were scum, and we lynch them after surviving D1 then D2 it's almost open season for the remaining Innocents to attack the scum. I firmly believe that at least BB and LS are not stupid enough to leave themselves in the open.

I was just reading through and I'm having trouble understanding this statement (post is here), could you or someone else who gets it paraphrase?

I'll paraphrase that.

If you want to say myself or BB or LS are scum, then by the way we three are acting now the remaining Mafia would vote the obvious, the traitor. Lynching/killing them (0_o and DChan) assuming they both bore actual roles as Mafia would almost certainly mean game over and a town loss (yet again).

But this is only and only IF myself, BB or LS are scum, and it's certain for now that we aren't scum.

I have explained before why this is a highly improbable scenario and why 0_o is the likeliest to be scum given his flip-flops on his voting. Don't give me the "first vote is random" crap, you'd have stuck by it if you wanted LS dead but when I unvoted you also followed suit.

So I'm only telling you how unlikely it is that any of the three of us (exclusive of 0_o and DChan) are scum given the way we've acted on this phase.

Pasonia wrote:

But this is only and only IF myself, BB or LS are scum, and it's certain for now that we aren't scum.

Hold on, since when did "we" clear LS? I'm pretty sure when you originally said that there was zero evidence that LS wasn't scum.. enlighten me?

I have explained before why this is a highly improbable scenario and why 0_o is the likeliest to be scum given his flip-flops on his voting. Don't give me the "first vote is random" crap [...]

First of all, you accuse me of flip-flop voting, when in fact you have switched votes more than I have:
Me
Vote BagelBob
unvote
Vote LadySuburu
unvote

You
Vote LadySuburu
unvote
Vote No Lynch
unvote
Vote 0_o

Secondly, everyone's first vote was random/jokes except yours. So really you "flipped" between 3 serious votes, whereas my only voting activity was a joke vote, followed by a serious vote that I retracted because of Bagel's knowledgeable traitor idea.

Pasonia wrote:

you'd have stuck by it if you wanted LS dead but when I unvoted you also followed suit.

Excuse me? You unvoted LS before I even voted for him!

So I'm only telling you how unlikely it is that any of the three of us (exclusive of 0_o and DChan) are scum given the way we've acted on this phase.

Do you still hold this view? Because you seem to be ignoring the discussion of a possible knowledgeable traitor, which would make everyone suspicious (to a degree) except BagelBob, since if he was scum then your information would be incorrect (which I am starting to doubt would be the case)

Also, it seems like one of your main arguments against me is that I was attacking LadySuburu. So what if I did? Why is that incriminating? Guess what - you are attacking me for doing exactly what you are doing right now - attacking someone. (and you've attacked me way more than I have LS)

So for the reasons above

vote Pasonia

There you go, now our vote counts are equal

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This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.

Consider the following.

0_o wrote:

There you go, now our vote counts are equal

Originally, LS has zero evidence of not being scum. However, bear in mind that LS, like myself and BB, did not declare a role for themselves. Only you and DChan did, so I am not at all surprised that both of you are staring at me hard.

I admit it was my error, because I was lazy to keep referring and re-referring to posts every day I put forth an argument.

You didn't unvote anybody. However, you HIGHLIGHTED L1 on me and refused to push a vote, then complained when I unvoted saying someone has to be voted off in order to avoid the 4-man LyLo. You flip-flop on decisions.

Two possibilities.

If you're not Traitor, you're totally terrified of lynching the wrong person.
If you're Traitor, you're totally terrified of drawing flak and fire.

Whereas, from the start to the finish, I made every decision based on the game condition at that point of time, from my first vote to the unvote/nolynch and then vote you.

DChan, if there is your so-called shit logic in anything I've been saying, there's two possibilities.

1. You did not bother to read through carefully anything I've posted thus far, mostly because they were addressed at 0_o for the most part.
2. You are the scum yourself, and you refuse to accept any of my arguments and brand them as shit (without any clear logic to your arguments either, really) because you want people to believe I'm not making sense. That is scummy behavior.

Also, I reject 0_o scumpainting LS because I am currently given the impression that LS is feeling lost; it could be possible that LS didn't get any role appends but is also a Mafia (not traitor). But if new arguments emerge from LS that points to other possibilities I wouldn't dismiss it either.

Liar, liar, who's the liar? Likely the man with the crooked face.

Also, HOS on both 0_o and DChan. (as if that wasn't very obvious...... -_-|||)

Pasonia wrote:

I have explained before why this is a highly improbable scenario and why 0_o is the likeliest to be scum given his flip-flops on his voting. Don't give me the "first vote is random" crap, you'd have stuck by it if you wanted LS dead but when I unvoted you also followed suit.

Is what I was meant by "shit logic". First votes usually ARE random votes, so I don't see how you can use that as logic in your arguments. Also, ALL of us have "flip-flopped" our votes by unvoting and/or changing, so I don't see why you're pinning down 0_o.

On another note: I still can't explain why I got an Unknown reading N0. Since the idea of a roleblocker doesn't sound probable, perhaps strager just decided to not give me a reading N0. This sounds REALLY stupid, but this IS "crazy" mafia. I dunno D:

*sigh* I'm not sure what else to say. Sorry for the "attack" Pasonia. I'm just trying to help find the scum in the group :3

*goes to bed*

Pasonia wrote:

You didn't unvote anybody. However, you HIGHLIGHTED L1 on me and refused to push a vote,

That vote count was a warning in LadySuburu's favour. I posted it so everyone would be aware that if they voted for Suburu, he would be lynched, so be careful. I point out L-1s all the time in mafia/WW, it keeps people from accidentally lynching someone when they didn't realize how many votes the person already had.

then complained when I unvoted saying someone has to be voted off in order to avoid the 4-man LyLo. You flip-flop on decisions.

My response was to the fact that you voted "No Lynch", I didn't care that you unvoted. No Lynch would have only benefited the traitor, hence why I pointed it out.

Whereas, from the start to the finish, I made every decision based on the game condition at that point of time, from my first vote to the unvote/nolynch and then vote you.

Likewise.
-My vote on BagelBob was completely random (during Random Voting Stage)
-My vote on LadySuburu was outlined clearly here
-My unvote of LadySuburu came to be when BagelBob brought up the idea that the traitor possibly knew everyone's role (or at least knows more than we think he does)
-My vote on you is outlined in my last post.

DChan, if there is your so-called shit logic in anything I've been saying, there's two possibilities.

1. You did not bother to read through carefully anything I've posted thus far, mostly because they were addressed at 0_o for the most part.
2. You are the scum yourself, and you refuse to accept any of my arguments and brand them as shit (without any clear logic to your arguments either, really) because you want people to believe I'm not making sense. That is scummy behavior.

You forgot the third possibility where you are the scum and we are dead-on
And I for one have read through your arguments thoroughly, and my last post has already outlined all of your crap logic. I don't think it's fair to say he's either lazy or scum

Also, I reject 0_o scumpainting LS because I am currently given the impression that LS is feeling lost; it could be possible that LS didn't get any role appends but is also a Mafia (not traitor). But if new arguments emerge from LS that points to other possibilities I wouldn't dismiss it either.

Liar, liar, who's the liar? Likely the man with the crooked face.

Also, HOS on both 0_o and DChan. (as if that wasn't very obvious...... -_-|||)

I don't know if this means anything, but he seems to be throwing a lot of suspicion at the two claimed aux roles, while virtually dismissing the one who claims to have no powers that could be used against the traitor.

Anyone else feel like elaborating on my thought processes here? Bagel? LS?

[offtopic]
What's up with you guys getting genders wrong? >_>

Derekku - Guy
Pasonia - Guy
LadySuburu - Must I say?
BagelBob - I ASSUME guy =<
0_o - The world may never know
[/offtopic]

Derekku Chan wrote:

LadySuburu - Must I say?

Actually I'm pretty sure LadySuburu really is a guy

me too

0_o wrote:

Derekku Chan wrote:

LadySuburu - Must I say?

Actually I'm pretty sure LadySuburu really is a guy

Please tell me that's sarcasm D: I get gullible when I'm sleepy ;-;

0_o wrote:

me too

A-HA! THE TRUTH COMES OUT!

Derekku Chan wrote:

Please tell me that's sarcasm D: I get gullible when I'm sleepy ;-;

Nope lol. This has been discussed somewhere before, I think an another mafia/WW game, but I forget where..
I could just be crazy though. Ask SFG she knows

0_o wrote:

me too

A-HA! THE TRUTH COMES OUT!

aw