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Thoughts on Rework?

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Topic Starter
maniaCmiC
Apollo's rework seems very popular on Reddit, YouTube, Discord osu! servers, etc.

It's getting a lot of support it seems.

What do you guys think of it?
Blushing
methinks combo removal is good. it will be a good change in a game that needed this change for a long time.
Yone
i rmb during the last rework u lost pp and was so mad and flamed it so hard

but now u gain pp from this rework and trying so hard to suck apollos d
I think if somehow u lost pp during this rework u would probably call it the shittiest rework ever or something

but imo its ok ig
cute and funny
Plays that miss at the very end are getting hit hard while ones that miss closer to the middle of the song get buffed, at least that's how it looks for me. I would say it nerfs plays with misses more than it buffs. Top plays that miss at the very end are more common, and those are gonna get fucked. People are overestimating how much some other plays are getting buffed, and the ones that do seem to get buffed a lot likely have nice acc that goes along with it. It's just moving from a combo game to a consistency and accuracy game, isn't this was what people wanted?

I've sometimes seen self conscious people in multi rooms say "combo game" or "I had better accuracy" etc when they mess up and lose to someone much lower rank with lower accuracy but got a lucky combo, and yeah I agree they're clearly the better player and their play is definitely better, just shut up and let the other person have their moment. But I've never seen someone complain of the opposite. So it seems to me most people agree acc and consistency is a better measure of overall skill.
I guess one downside is multi might turn more boring since there won't be those unpredictable moments anymore where an underdog randomly comes out on top with a cool and lucky combo.
darkness12z
inb4 thread locked
MrSparklepants
There was already a thread like this so I'll just copy and paste what I said. Not trying to argue or anything, just my thoughts.

"I personally don't like it even though I gain a little PP, but what can you do." Although I now lose PP my thoughts are still the same.
The Indian Guy
Idk
who cares tbh
Yhuan Debeste
Rework is fine, current version still looks scuffed but I assume it can be polished by the time it comes out. Though I have a bit of bias against systems that make it so that the better player always wins.
AccountWontWork
I like it since a lot of my top plays have slider breaks...
kujubuo
it is good
-Polyrem-
mfs only agree with reworks because they will get more pp, I swear anybody that loses pp just hates pp rework
Arm
I like the idea of pp being based less off of combo and more on acc. The main change i'd say needs to be done with it is punish misses harder than its punished now. I feel that would make it more balanced.

Thing is theres not gonna be a perfect system, and theres gonna be hate and praise for each rework, so id say this change would be a new and cool system to try out, just like the current rework thats been implemented
kujubuo

-Polyrem- wrote:

mfs only agree with reworks because they will get more pp, I swear anybody that loses pp just hates pp rework
i lose pp though. its still a good rework

Arm wrote:

I like the idea of pp being based less off of combo and more on acc. The main change i'd say needs to be done with it is punish misses harder than its punished now. I feel that would make it more balanced.

Thing is theres not gonna be a perfect system, and theres gonna be hate and praise for each rework, so id say this change would be a new and cool system to try out, just like the current rework thats been implemented
its actually going to depend on misses and not acc. The acc system will stay the same.
Topic Starter
maniaCmiC

Yone wrote:

i rmb during the last rework u lost pp and was so mad and flamed it so hard

but now u gain pp from this rework and trying so hard to suck apollos d
I think if somehow u lost pp during this rework u would probably call it the shittiest rework ever or something

but imo its ok ig
Last rework nerfed jumps a bit too much. I'm sure most can see that. Jumps had already been heavily nerfed this year, so another heavy nerf was not really necessary. They should have a slight buff imo. Less than prior, but more than current.

And at that time I thought I was quitting too so it was not really about my PP xd



-Polyrem- wrote:

mfs only agree with reworks because they will get more pp, I swear anybody that loses pp just hates pp rework
I mean not really. I agree with the premise of the rework. I've always wondered why combo was most important in PP. It should be misscount and acc. A B rank FC is not better than a mid-map 1 miss with 99% acc, which is how it is in the current PP system.



Arm wrote:

I like the idea of pp being based less off of combo and more on acc. The main change i'd say needs to be done with it is punish misses harder than its punished now. I feel that would make it more balanced.

Thing is theres not gonna be a perfect system, and theres gonna be hate and praise for each rework, so id say this change would be a new and cool system to try out, just like the current rework thats been implemented
I don't really know the finetuning, some plays actually get misses punished fairly or pretty heavily, but others there seems to be really little punishment. I don't know what the right measure is.

kujubuo wrote:

-Polyrem- wrote:

mfs only agree with reworks because they will get more pp, I swear anybody that loses pp just hates pp rework
i lose pp though. its still a good rework

Arm wrote:

I like the idea of pp being based less off of combo and more on acc. The main change i'd say needs to be done with it is punish misses harder than its punished now. I feel that would make it more balanced.

Thing is theres not gonna be a perfect system, and theres gonna be hate and praise for each rework, so id say this change would be a new and cool system to try out, just like the current rework thats been implemented
its actually going to depend on misses and not acc. The acc system will stay the same.
Yeah but it makes acc a really important factor since plays with misses but high acc can be rewarded now. Whereas before acc only mattered if you held combo.
rematyar
"The last rework nerfed jumps a bit too much" is an other word for "My pp goes down bad rework" I see. Since the last rework doesn't nerf jumps THAT much. (The rework buffed wide angle jumps anyway

Anyway, this rework is okay. Or should I say, bad because my acc will go down
Simon12
I can see why people want this rework, but I'm personally not a huge fan of it.
This is the kind of rework I would want when I was a newer to the game. I remember being so upset when I missed and thought to myself: "Why does this "combo" bullshit have to determine how much PP my plays are worth? I got 99%+ on that run! It only makes me retryspam the same maps over and over!" And then at some later point in time I changed my perspective: "Maybe I don't deserve that score right now. Maybe that "shitmiss" was my fault. Maybe I should try to actually improve and get more consistent so I don't have to retry 50+ times to set the score I want!"

Because of this current system, I have learned to associate FC's with high accuracy as good plays, and they're very satisfying scores to set when I DO set them. When I submit a score, but didn't FC, the score won't feel "finished" to me. And I don't stay away from submitting scores because of that (you can easily tell if you take a quick look at my profile lol). I still set scores because it's a start. I look at the score I just set and feel motivated to improve, so I can set a better play later on the same map and fix the score. The way the current system works compliments this kind of mindset very well. It encourages you to overwrite your old choke plays with FC's that have the highest accuracy you can manage.

What I fear this new rework is going to do. Is make players less inclined to adopt the kind of mindset I wrote about in the former paragraph and make higher PP scores less satisfying to set. Because it will be easier. And the reason this game can make you feel so incredible, is precisely because of how hard it can be. With this new rework you can have shitmisses and sliderbreaks sprinkled through your play and still gain a decent amount of PP from it. This does not incentivize consistency like the current system does and therefore it's more lazy. Which is why it will ultimately, be a less enjoyable experience.

You might find that this rework is very fun the first couple of weeks after it has gone live, but you will not be able to increase your PP by setting overvalued scores indefinitely (unless you are indefinitely improving). And when that time comes you will be back to square one (in the sense that gaining rank/PP will be just as difficult as it was before the rework went live). The only difference at that point is that the bar has been lowered.

PP will be inflated



I am definitely biased here because of the reasons I've mentioned, but I still think it's noteworthy to point this out. Maybe I seem like an osu boomer when writing about this, but this post isn't entirely an appeal to tradition. I've also stated why this current system is in my view superior. The current system is far from perfect, but making this change is definitely a downgrade in my opinion. As it stands now, I think the current system acts as a good bonus becase of how it rewards certain kinds of good scores and it's pretty decent at sucking in new players to the game. But in the end this change will not make me quit the game, even if I think that this is a step in the wrong direction. Because there is more to osu! than just PP.
witchhunted
reworks have always been trash, just bring back v1 because they would never make a perfect pp system anyway.
Aiq

witchhunted wrote:

reworks have always been trash, just bring back v1 because they would never make a perfect pp system anyway.
epic argument. if it's broken why bother trying to make it as good as possible if it's never gonna be perfect am i right?

perhaps, ppv1 may have been even more flawed based on informations we have available [1] [2] [3]
Yhuan Debeste

Aiq wrote:

witchhunted wrote:

reworks have always been trash, just bring back v1 because they would never make a perfect pp system anyway.
epic argument. if it's broken why bother trying to make it as good as possible if it's never gonna be perfect am i right?

perhaps, ppv1 may have been even more flawed based on informations we have available [1] [2] [3]
make FL great again
Simon12

Aiq wrote:

witchhunted wrote:

reworks have always been trash, just bring back v1 because they would never make a perfect pp system anyway.
epic argument. if it's broken why bother trying to make it as good as possible if it's never gonna be perfect am i right?

perhaps, ppv1 may have been even more flawed based on informations we have available [1] [2] [3]
Imagine if osu hosted an official PPv1 leaderboard page, like the Score ranking leaderboard has, but you know PPv1.
It wouldn't be the main leaderboard players compete in and care about, but I think it could be interesting to see how it works out.
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