I shall skim op as it is indeed tl;dr and I feel bad because no one else is skimming.

People play insane maps because they ARE more fun, they don't just look it. You don't damage your joints if you play correctly.

You seem to think that difficulty is just reading but it's not. Difficulty is your physical ability to move the cursor and click fast enough all while keeping in time and making sure you read the map correctly.

Insane maps are pretty much all the same but actual insane maps (the ones that are actually crazy hard) are all very different and creative. Stop playing shitty anime ops and you will see.

DT is harder so gives more points, not much to say here? Patience is not a skill, it's a measure of how little else you have to do in your life at that point in time.

People don't like people with incorrect ranks because they don't deserve them. I'm sure you would be mad if someone came first in the Olympic 100 meters and they ran far slower than the other contestants (not possible but you get the point).

You seem to have gotten the wrong image. People don't take this game that seriously compared to other games as it's not competitive (no direct interaction between players), talking about an arguably broken ranking system doesn't make everyone super serious no lifers.

Just because your friend doesn't like certain maps doesn't mean everyone hates them. Lots of people love small notes and other rarely used little map features.

im a bit confused, or my english just sucks... but the overall question is "is every Osu player different?"
sure you explained yourself, every player has a different opionion about "skill" as also "a real pro"

vantheman wrote:

In my mind, a "hard working" person is someone who works "12-14 hours a day" and a "real pro" is someone who makes $300 an hour.

i don't like your second defination "a real pro" is admired for his dedication and his achievements

vantheman wrote:

I'm lead me to think, I must be a very unusual person if the skills I enjoy building are so different.

you're not that unusual, I'm for the most part CTB'ler and i appreciate "Spin Skill" more then "Difficulty Skill"

Person who plays stupid graveyarded ar9/10 jump filled death maps here. Challenging yourself to be accurate at speed is difficult and really fun. Also if you're physically damaging anything while playing then you're seriously doing something wrong, I play in absurdly long stretches and the only thing I've damaged is the lifespan of my keyboard switches.

If you don't like "insane" maps then I seriously just think you aren't experienced enough to break out of hards, or just have only tried boring/bad maps.

Also I'd love to see some new small circle maps, they can be pretty difficult to acc on at speed, but the last example of a small circle map I can think of was painfully slow and basically defeated the challenge of smaller circles.

vantheman wrote:

I don't quite get why a person would want to damage their joints and their tablet/keyboard learning to play on insane, those maps don't even look like fun.

Considering your playcount, you clearly aren't ready for insanes if you think you'll damage your joints. To me, insanes are fun, because they are challenging, and usually follow the rhythm in a really good way compared to lower difficulties.
Also, like jesus1412 said, no one takes this game seriously (I think so too), the only time I would think anyone would take it seriously would be during a tournament of some kind.
Oh, and you mentioned mods, and why they even exist. In my opinion, mods make the map even more fun. Sure, the maps gets a lot harder, but whats the point of a challenge if its easy.

One last note, the 'O' in osu! is lower case.

Small circles are cool.

But well, to answer your question: yes, every osu! player is different. It's just that the majority seems to like fast-paced maps, which is why there are generally more fast-paced maps and/or DTable maps.

If you don't enjoy them, search for some other map to play, as this game has like, idk a ton of ranked maps.

CXu wrote:

Small circles are cool.

But well, to answer your question: yes, every osu! player is different. It's just that the majority seems to like fast-paced maps, which is why there are generally more fast-paced maps and/or DTable maps.

If you don't enjoy them, search for some other map to play, as this game has like, idk a ton of ranked maps.

I have that map. And I like it too. Thanks for being cool CXu, you inspire me.

jesus1412 wrote:

I shall skim op as it is indeed tl;dr and I feel bad because no one else is skimming.

People play insane maps because they ARE more fun, they don't just look it. You don't damage your joints if you play correctly.

You seem to think that difficulty is just reading but it's not. Difficulty is your physical ability to move the cursor and click fast enough all while keeping in time and making sure you read the map correctly.

Insane maps are pretty much all the same but actual insane maps (the ones that are actually crazy hard) are all very different and creative. Stop playing shitty anime ops and you will see.

DT is harder so gives more points, not much to say here? Patience is not a skill, it's a measure of how little else you have to do in your life at that point in time.

People don't like people with incorrect ranks because they don't deserve them. I'm sure you would be mad if someone came first in the Olympic 100 meters and they ran far slower than the other contestants (not possible but you get the point).

You seem to have gotten the wrong image. People don't take this game that seriously compared to other games as it's not competitive (no direct interaction between players), talking about an arguably broken ranking system doesn't make everyone super serious no lifers.

Just because your friend doesn't like certain maps doesn't mean everyone hates them. Lots of people love small notes and other rarely used little map features.

10/10 post qft

XGeneral2000 wrote:

This game is not art.

Yeah, I thought so.
Okay! Confirmation. Thanks.

XGeneral2000 wrote:

Comparing it to anything else is meaningless.

I think there's value in comparing. Guitar players hate Guitar Hero players, but some Guitar Hero players do use the game as a starting point to learning to play guitar, since there's similar skills involved. Rhythm games aren't musical instruments but you need rhythm to play a musical instrument, square and rhombuses, etc. While osu! standard isn't meant to mimic drawing or calligraphy(the typical map is closer to kanji writing if either of them), skills are pleasure, and the game could be working on different skillsets in addition to the ones it works on.
It does, there's more kinds of maps, people have said so far.
I don't have anything against the typical map. And the typical ones aren't all maps. But nobody's tagging the beatmaps with things related to the map itself like "small circles" or "long sliders". So do you think I should go make a feature request for mapping styles to be identified, named, and then a way of searching for them, for the sake of promoting variety?

Wishy wrote:

Not worth reading.

Of course, I didn't even attempt to read it. You are probably just bad at mad because of it.

Yeah, that'd be the most likely scenario, wouldn't it? I can't blame anyone for thinking that.
I'm bad at it yes, but I'm only confused/curious, not angry about it. Forgive me for writing a first impression.

jesus1412 wrote:

You seem to have gotten the wrong image. People don't take this game that seriously compared to other games as it's not competitive (no direct interaction between players), talking about an arguably broken ranking system doesn't make everyone super serious no lifers.

I did get the wrong image. That's a relief. I'm truly sorry that I wrote something insulting.

jesus1412 wrote:

Patience is not a skill, it's a measure of how little else you have to do in your life at that point in time.

What? It'd be a change of subject but do you care to debate that? I don't agree.

I was just agroing for the sake of it no offense intended.

This game is a joke (from a competitive pov, it's completely broken), it's not serious, few people really care a lot about it, it's just extremely fun to play for some of us and that's why we keep playing even after lots of years.

It's not that super insanes are fun for everyone. Some players have fun while SS'ing random maps that they find easy to do so, some other players have fun trying to clear very hard maps. Thing is there are players who actually have fun by challenging themselves, the only possible outcome from that is that they will be the best players, because you only really improve when you try to break your limits. Obviously, when you get good easy maps are not fun anymore because you might aswell play them w/o audio, every mod available while having a serious discussion on some voice chat and still get a full combo.

What jesus means is that patience on this game is pretty much "I have nothing else to do so I might aswell retry this map for 2 hours until I FC". You will notice how the most " patient" players are actually young/late teens with a lot of free time (for any reason you can think of) who have nothing better to do than "be patient". Not saying it's bad or anything, they have fun by doing so, but truth is when you have things to do (either that or you prefer to invest your time on something else) your time starts having a different value, which in the end means you won't spend hours retrying a few maps because you might aswell be doing something else.

Wishy wrote:

when you have things to do (either that or you prefer to invest your time on something else) your time starts having a different value, which in the end means you won't spend hours retrying a few maps because you might aswell be doing something else.

Like when you are working....
And have no freaking time to farm pp which is not fun at all by any means for me

about maps in general on osu!, there is more diversity than you think, and mainly this only becomes noticeable at the insane level difficulties. I mean, most people say that anime OP maps are all generally the same, and most of them do play the same way, but they are all quite different and certain mappers will emphasize certain notes rather than other ones. And mapping insanes (and playing them for that matter) is not being able to read and memorize hard to read patterns. There are rules and guidelines to mapping that must be met. Having a good understanding of how to read notes will be better understood as you play more, and despite the outright random spacing insane maps often use, they are very easily and clearly readable to anyone with a decent amount of skill. Completely unreadable patterns are not even rank able these days, even though they might seem unreadable to you now.

I'm probably re-iterating what people are saying in this thread. But either way, point is that you probably haven't been in the community enough or played the game enough to definitively say something about the game yet.

also i'm not really understanding what you hate about the mods. You seem to hate the mods because they are just bad, but would you care to come up with some other type of mod that doesn't mess up osu! gameplay?

You have boost mods and that twister mod in DDR, and some reverse mods and such, but is that even possible to implement into osu!? Honestly, there could be a few other possible mods, but these few mods that are in the game work very well within the game mechanics although some people don't like them.

If you have problems with the game, or you see no future in you playing this game, then just quit. As many people said, you play games for fun. What you value in the game is up to you to decide, as there are many things which you can actually do here (mapping, modding, playing (4 different modes), or just chilling with the community).

Edited the OP with an apology for the misjudgement that people take the game seriously.

Wishy wrote:

I was just agroing for the sake of it no offense intended.

This game is a joke (from a competitive pov, it's completely broken), it's not serious, few people really care a lot about it, it's just extremely fun to play for some of us and that's why we keep playing even after lots of years.

It's not that super insanes are fun for everyone. Some players have fun while SS'ing random maps that they find easy to do so, some other players have fun trying to clear very hard maps. Thing is there are players who actually have fun by challenging themselves, the only possible outcome from that is that they will be the best players, because you only really improve when you try to break your limits. Obviously, when you get good easy maps are not fun anymore because you might aswell play them w/o audio, every mod available while having a serious discussion on some voice chat and still get a full combo.

Well thanks for that, it's a good explanation.

The way I like to play right now would probably lump me in with any pp farmer(play the most challenging map I can get an S on until I do so and then move on), and I'm happy to have read that PP are soon to be changed(to something much better it looks like), so that I won't feel so stigmatized. Even though people shouldn't care what other people think, my profile makes me really self conscious since everyone can see how I play and I do want to be part of the mapping community.

winber1 wrote:

Having a good understanding of how to read notes will be better understood as you play more, and despite the outright random spacing insane maps often use, they are very easily and clearly readable to anyone with a decent amount of skill. Completely unreadable patterns are not even rank able these days, even though they might seem unreadable to you now.

Okay, I'll look forward to that.

winber1 wrote:

also i'm not really understanding what you hate about the mods. You seem to hate the mods because they are just bad, but would you care to come up with some other type of mod that doesn't mess up osu! gameplay?

I could brainstorm some out. "Really hard rock", there's one. Or how about one that reduces score of a hit by the percentage of distance from the center of the target/slider tick? Or more like the game, it could work in levels just giving you 100/50 when you're beyond treshholds, like an archery target. Placement accuracy is a measurable dimension that's there, but only measured in binary.

What do I hate about FL and DT? Flashlight I hate because it has pretty much nothing to do with anything, just strobes in your face while playing, it's like playing while juggling rabbits in the offhand, but it gets people to a place of recognition on the scoreboard/ranking. Though as other people have said, the competitive aspect of the game is a joke, **** the scoreboard
What I have against double time is a little more complicated - see, I only want to play on songs that I like - but they're no longer the song I like if they're sped up. So the scoreboard is only accessible to people who are willing to ruin the music. You have to practice it over and over with ruined music to get the DT SS - when instead of giving points for that mod and making it so people who like the music to much to ruin it will never get to the top of it even with 1000 plays on it, people could just be playing the harder maps for more challenge/pp. The scoreboard doesn't matter, the mods are just options for fun. Oh. Let's redirect my insulting paragraph from the OP at me then, since I'm caring about it(sorry again for that), I guess I'm the one that's too serious. I don't hate the mods themselves or people that play with them, just the way it works out in the end with them.
At first I was afraid to play hard maps even on no fail and was taking maps to the editor to do unranked test plays to learn them, because "I don't want the accuracy on my profile to drop".

I mean, yeah, I was reading that "why we hate pp thread" in depth because, a crap ranking system is a pretty important flaw, imo. For the record I also think "50/100/300" is a little weak. There should be more shades of gray, such that nobody would have "100%" but plenty would have several significant digits beyond 99%. That'd be ideal but it becomes a PC issue if it's too fine tuned right? 0/50/100/300 is only two binary digits so...ah I don't know jack about coding, let's not discuss this.

winber1 wrote:

What you value in the game is up to you to decide, as there are many things which you can actually do here (mapping, modding, playing (4 different modes), or just chilling with the community).

That answers the topic question then, yes we are all different. I'm glad to hear it - I was suspecting thick elitism rather than acceptance in the culture here. Or, rather, there probably are elitists, but we don't all have to care.

Dude, I have almost the same thoughts as you. I notice how some maps are becoming the same nowadays, but if you go to graveyard you will find real treasures. You just need to play more and find more GOOD maps.
People can't deny it, most insanes nowadays are the same circle size, normal or slow slider velocity, jumps and complicated patterns, etc but this is how mapping works nowadays.
You might like the old maps. They're really different. REALLY different.
And yeah tiny circle size is kinda.. hated here. You won't find many recent ranked maps with tiny cs.
Shameless self promotion but you might like trying this one https://osu.ppy.sh/s/103954
Play some 2009~2010 maps. They're original, different and fun in different ways.
Don't forget to try to start mapping. The best maps you will find will be your own maps because you can make them the way you want.
osu! also needs some different ideas and fresh blood.
Just a note: don't fall into the competitive edge. Don't ever forget to enjoy the maps you are playing.
I don't know about you, but I can't have fun playing double time just to earn more points and get a better rank.
I like to have fun with what I play, I like to enjoy the map and the song and I like to do stupid things with my cursor and miss on purpose because being stupid is more fun than following everything right.
We're all different and we use the game in different ways
The most important thing in a game isn't winning, but having fun with it
never play with double time and nightcore, they ruin the songs and sometimes the maps. don't use dt don't use dt don't use dt don't use dt

sorry for the typos, i'm just too lazy to recheck my wall of text

[Luanny] wrote:

Don't forget to try to start mapping. The best maps you will find will be your own maps because you can make them the way you want.
osu! also needs some different ideas and fresh blood.

I've started a few. If I gave an ETA on when I'm ready to submit them, christmas.
I've been working on one with just "whatever I find fun" in it - felt motivated to make it for me and just me, and I figured other people don't have to appreciate it.
Here's what I expect - when it's finally ready, it'll get shot full of holes by the modding community and then beaten into submission until I've edited it down to a typical map. And I'll probably do that too, just to see a project to it's finish.

I've saved a few that I play frequently as a new difficulty with CS set to 7 recently, figuring out more and more as I go that having fun is more important than expecting anything satisfying from the game's scoring system. I figured I was saving the debate I'm about to dive into for my interaction with the modding community, but why do we hate small circles? Maybe you can tell me the typical reasons given, if you've heard them.

Interesting map btw, I gave it a shot.

jesus1412 wrote:

Patience is not a skill, it's a measure of how little else you have to do in your life at that point in time.

What? It'd be a change of subject but do you care to debate that? I don't agree.

In this game I guess patience would just be playing through a map that is mostly very easy and has some peak parts near the end, essentially it's just playing through the same boring part over and over again only to fail at the ending.

It certainly is used in osu! though. People who sit and retry maps for hours on end are the patient ones, and they get the top ranks.

vantheman wrote:

I only want to play on songs that I like - but they're no longer the song I like if they're sped up.

The more you play this game, the less you care about the song and care about the map instead. It's typical for osu players, be ready to expand your musical tastes if you don't wanna miss some very good maps.

vantheman wrote:

I'm happy to have read that PP are soon to be changed(to something much better it looks like), so that I won't feel so stigmatized.

PP system isn't as bad right now as you might think, of course it has some flaws but overall it's fine, especially on lower ranks (like lower than top500) and I doubt the new one will be much better.

vantheman wrote:

"I don't want the accuracy on my profile to drop".

Only your best plays takes into account, so everything non-fc or any troll accuraccy won't be counted.

If you have really good thought out ideas about adding new mods or changing already existing ones, go ahead and suggest it here -> 4. Though more likely nothing will be changed, but at least you'll know why. I highly recommend you to learn more about the mods before you start any discussion, so you would know what you're talking about (no offense here). Same thing about modding process, there're reasons why ranked criterias are such as they are now. If you want to keep your map original - just don't try to rank it, unranked - doesn't necessarily mean bad, most of my favourite maps are not ranked.

Seriously, you shouldn't care about such global things yet, just enjoy the game and do whatever that makes you happy. It's the most fun experience when you just started learning the game.

Okay makes sense guys, one more thing:

jesus1412 wrote:

Difficulty is your physical ability to move the cursor...

Yeah, I agree, and I bet most people would, that moving the cursor is one aspect of the difficulty among others.

So given that, what manner of zombie apocalypse happened here in 2010 that has caused circle size to be nerfed and homogenized? That's what circle size is related to, moving the cursor. Why do people hate it? My opinion is those people shouldn't be playing standard mode since they don't like one of the main aspects of it. They should go play taiko mode. Or go play a drum. In the dark. Alone.
Surely people who hate it are in the room and can tell me about it. Come out so I can flame you we can discuss it.

You know Hard Rock reduces Circle Size? Most of the ranked maps are made so that they can be played with HR. If you really like small CS, take it as your advantage and play everything with HR, people will respect you.

Yeah I figured that out a few weeks in.
I've been playing everything with HR since I discovered it so long as I can handle the approach rate. The approach rate really beats me up. I'll get better at that over time, though. HP drain increase, I don't really care about.

Not using CS7 I can understand, because when you play that on HR the circle size gets significantly smaller than the cursor, and that's a new separate problem. Maybe that'd be fixed if I pick a skin with a mostly transparent, minimal cursor(or make one and replace the skin element myself), I haven't tried that. 6 on HR, I think is fun.

Another thing you might think that small CS is easy because there is almost no other challenge on easier diffs like huge jumps, spaced curved streams, hard patterns, high AR and other stuff that you will meet only on harder insanes.

vantheman wrote:

CXu wrote:

Small circles are cool.

But well, to answer your question: yes, every osu! player is different. It's just that the majority seems to like fast-paced maps, which is why there are generally more fast-paced maps and/or DTable maps.

If you don't enjoy them, search for some other map to play, as this game has like, idk a ton of ranked maps.

I have that map. And I like it too. Thanks for being cool CXu, you inspire me.

But can you be as cool as CXu on this map?

Most of the time I just play unranked maps, or very hard maps that I will probably never fc. I only go for pp scores on some maps to see how good at this game I can get and keep pushing myself. (I realize skill and rank aren't exactly correlated but I just like seeing the number go down)